Trump Assassination Attempt Discussion

[Jean Ceulemans]

Just watched the HOC hearing, Tom is correct, Cheatle was just terrible to watch... 

[W. Niederhut]

22 minutes ago, Jean Ceulemans said:

Just watched the HOC hearing, Tom is correct, Cheatle was just terrible to watch... 

Tom is right about Cheatle, as I said.  That's a no brainer.

But there's a much larger issue here, Jean.

Did you and Tom Gram watch the historic Congressional hearings about Trump's J6 mob attack on the U.S. Congress?

Several members of Congress-- including Jim Jordan, Scott Perry, Ron Johnson, and others-- were complicit in Trump's felonious scheme to overturn the results of the 2020 U.S. election.

And the Secret Service was also complicit in that historic assault on American democracy.

We can rightly condemn the recent failure of the Secret Service in Pennsylvania, while also pointing out the historic J6 malfeasance of the Secret Service and MAGA Congress.

 

Edited yesterday at 03:56 PM by W. Niederhut

[Paul Rigby]

Includes Cheatles's unexpected reference to "Continuity of Government."

[Paul Rigby]

51 minutes ago, Paul Rigby said:

Includes Cheatles's unexpected reference to "Continuity of Government."

 

[Tom Gram]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Tom is right about Cheatle, as I said.  That's a no brainer.

But there's a much larger issue here, Jean.

Did you and Tom Gram watch the historic Congressional hearings about Trump's J6 mob attack on the U.S. Congress?

Several members of Congress-- including Jim Jordan, Scott Perry, Ron Johnson, and others-- were complicit in Trump's felonious scheme to overturn the results of the 2020 U.S. election.

And the Secret Service was also complicit in that historic assault on American democracy.

We can rightly condemn the recent failure of the Secret Service in Pennsylvania, while also pointing out the historic J6 malfeasance of the Secret Service and MAGA Congress.

 

I did watch the January 6th hearings. What does that have to do with Crooks and the Trump assassination attempt? This thread is not about general Secret Service malfeasance in modern history. It’s not about January 6th. It’s about the July 13th, 2024 Trump assassination attempt by Thomas Matthew Crooks in Butler, PA. 

There was Homeland Security hearing on the assassination attempt earlier today. Compared to the Cheatle disaster it was pretty informative, but that isn’t saying much. I only picked up on a few details I hadn’t already seen in the press. I just listened to it in the background though so maybe I missed something.

We finally got an answer on the shell casings at least. The Pennsylvania State Police chief said that 8 shell casings were found in the vicinity of Crooks’ body. 

Overall though, there are still a ton of unanswered questions, and Cheatle’s stonewalling does not inspire confidence that we’re getting the full story.

I do not think it was a conspiracy, but I wouldn’t be surprised if important facts are being withheld from the public in a CYA motivated cover-up. 

I think I’m being pretty reasonable here. An assassination attempt on a presidential candidate is a very big deal. The public deserves to know what happened. 

[W. Niederhut]

33 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

I did watch the January 6th hearings. What does that have to do with Crooks and the Trump assassination attempt? This thread is not about general Secret Service malfeasance in modern history. It’s not about January 6th. It’s about the July 13th, 2024 Trump assassination attempt by Thomas Matthew Crooks in Butler, PA. 

There was Homeland Security hearing on the assassination attempt earlier today. Compared to the Cheatle disaster it was pretty informative, but that isn’t saying much. I only picked up on a few details I hadn’t already seen in the press. I just listened to it in the background though so maybe I missed something.

We finally got an answer on the shell casings at least. The Pennsylvania State Police chief said that 8 shell casings were found in the vicinity of Crooks’ body. 

Overall though, there are still a ton of unanswered questions, and Cheatle’s stonewalling does not inspire confidence that we’re getting the full story.

I do not think it was a conspiracy, but I wouldn’t be surprised if important facts are being withheld from the public in a CYA motivated cover-up. 

I think I’m being pretty reasonable here. An assassination attempt on a presidential candidate is a very big deal. The public deserves to know what happened. 

Tom,

   I can, certainly, understand why Trump and MAGA Republicans don't want to talk about the truly egregious Secret Service malfeasance on January 6th.   

   In fact, Republicans don't want to talk about January 6th at all in 2024-- Trump's truly historic, felonious assault on American democracy.

    It's called, "controlling the narrative."

    But, do you at least grasp the irony of Jim Jordan and Trump's Congressional J6 accomplices grandstanding about the substandard job performance of another public servant?

    Their own job performances have been historically abysmal at best, felonious at worst.

    And you, yourself, introduced the subject of this week's Congressional theatrics.

   Were you similarly indignant about Tony Ornato's evasive testimony to the Congressional J6 committee? 

   Ornato, repeatedly, claimed that he had "no recall" of memos warning him that the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers were threatening to use violence on J6, to establish a Trump dictatorship!

 

[Karl Kinaski]

 OT @ Niederhut said in a private message 

Quote

 

Karl,

     To date, no one has censored your numerous MAGA disinformation posts here on the Education Forum

 

 Point out an example. 

@ Niederhut said, quote: 

Quote

 

 Attacking the mods is a different story.

      It is explicitly against the forum rules.

      First warning.

 

Point out an example. I would be glad. I am here to learn. 

Thx. 

 

[Nick Bartetzko]

11 hours ago, Paul Rigby said:

Includes Cheatles's unexpected reference to "Continuity of Government."

I have seen a clip of the guy previously discussing the audio. I don't know who his experts are, but to a layman like me, there appear to be 3 different types of sounds and different spacings as well. The first 3 are a bit more spaced, the next 5 are quicker, and the last one appears to be a different sound than the other two. The first time I heard it, and that tape was from a further distance and didn't have the crowd noise, I had assumed the rapid fire sequence of 5 shots was return fire from the Secret Service. Another puzzling aspect is the injuries to the 3 individuals in the crowd. They aren't that close to the stage.
What kind of ammunition does an AR 15 use and what is the maximum number of rounds that can be fired at one time? Are there any reports of the type of ammunition that killed the one spectator and wounded the two others? Has an FBI spokesperson held a briefing or have they released anything?

 

11 hours ago, Paul Rigby said:

Includes Cheatles's unexpected reference to "Continuity of Government."

 

[Karl Kinaski]

Now the FBI says: Eight casings were found on that roof.  I do not believe the FBI will get away with it. 

[Nick Bartetzko]

22 minutes ago, Karl Kinaski said:

Now the FBI says: Eight casings were found on that roof.  I do not believe the FBI will get away with it. 

Thank you. I had not heard that or seen an article. I just found this article from CBS News. So let me make sure I understand this.... the shooter on the roof fired 8 shots, 3 of which sound quite different to me, a layman and non ballistics guy, than the following 5. I guess that might be possible if that AR 15 is capable of being loaded with 2 different types of ammunition or could it be that the powder for 5 of the cartridges was a different amount than the other 3 and that caused the differences in the sound? 
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-rally-gunman-fired-eight-shots-under-six-seconds-before-being-killed-by-secret-service-analysis-shows/

[Karl Kinaski]

@Nick Bartetzko

 

https://humanevents.com/2024/07/23/breaking-ron-johnson-reveals-8-shell-casings-were-found-near-trump-would-be-assassins-body

Quote

 

Senator Ron Johnson revealed on Human Events Daily Tuesday eight shell casings were found near the body of Thomas Matthew Crooks, the 20-year-old who attempted to assassinate Donald Trump at a Pennsylvania rally on July 13. 

"We have spoken to two eyewitnesses and someone else who also has knowledge from the FBI that there were eight shell casings found near the dead body," Johnson told Jack Posobiec, noting that now former United Secret Service head Kimberley Cheatle would not answer that question in a hearing on Monday.

 

 

[Karl Kinaski]

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Karl Kinaski

[W. Niederhut]

7 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said:

 OT @ Niederhut said in a private message 

 Point out an example. 

@ Niederhut said, quote: 

Point out an example. I would be glad. I am here to learn. 

Thx. 

 

Laura Loomer?

Vigilant Fox?

Dan "Own the Libs" Bongino?

Do you know anything about these dubious right-wing sources, Karl?

Do you know anything about actual American history and politics?

Your sources indicate that you are living in a universe of alternate "facts."

[Paul Rigby]

Secret Service urging Trump to stop outdoor rallies after shooting – report

Move comes as director Kimberly Cheatle resigns after congressional grilling over assassination attempt

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/23/secret-service-outdoor-rallies-trump-campaign

Edward Helmore

Wed 24 Jul 2024 02.05 BST

Secret Service officials are reported to be encouraging Donald Trump’s campaign to stop holding outdoor rallies in the wake of the 13 July assassination attempt on the former president at a fairground in Butler, Pennsylvania.

The move, reported by the Washington Post, comes as the Secret Service director, Kimberly Cheatle, resigned on Tuesday following a combative grilling before a congressional committee by both Democrats and Republicans over apparent security failures before an attempt on Trump’s life by a 20-year-old gunman...

...The Trump campaign, which may have favored outdoor venues until the shooting because of their larger crowd capacity, is not planning further outdoor events and instead is looking to book indoor venues, including basketball arenas, according to the outlet.

During a rally in an arena in Grand Rapids, Michigan, on Saturday, Trump appeared to lament that some supporters had been left outside. The Republican candidate is also known for exaggerating crowd estimates, dating back at least to his inauguration in 2017.

Since launching his first presidential bid, Trump has held hundreds of outdoor rallies that have become like festivals for his most ardent supporters, featuring tailgate parties and vendors hawking Trump memorabilia and campaign merchandise.

According to the Post, Trump advisers had told the Secret Service the 2024 re-election campaign was planning to hold large events, and would need increased protection and assets. But the agency is believed to have turned down the requests, citing a lack of resources.

If Trump now holds rallies in more secure locations, such as sports arenas, they will prove more expensive to the campaign.

[Tom Gram]

16 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Tom,

   I can, certainly, understand why Trump and MAGA Republicans don't want to talk about the truly egregious Secret Service malfeasance on January 6th.   

   In fact, Republicans don't want to talk about January 6th at all in 2024-- Trump's truly historic, felonious assault on American democracy.

    It's called, "controlling the narrative."

    But, do you at least grasp the irony of Jim Jordan and Trump's Congressional J6 accomplices grandstanding about the substandard job performance of another public servant?

    Their own job performances have been historically abysmal at best, felonious at worst.

    And you, yourself, introduced the subject of this week's Congressional theatrics.

   Were you similarly indignant about Tony Ornato's evasive testimony to the Congressional J6 committee? 

   Ornato, repeatedly, claimed that he had "no recall" of memos warning him that the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers were threatening to use violence on J6, to establish a Trump dictatorship!

 

I’m not denying any of that, except for the bit about Cheatle. She 100% did this to herself. Watch the hearing. The Democrats on the committee were just as critical as the Republicans. This was not partisan grandstanding or “theatrics”. This was not “substandard job performance”. This was literally the worst Secret Service failure since the JFK assassination. 

The entire oversight committee agreed, which from my understanding is a rare occurrence. Cheatle resigned as a direct result of that hearing. It was an important, bipartisan event and it needed to happen. Like Jim D. said in another thread, “finally, someone was called to task…”.

I am not a Republican. I also recall Ornato prevaricating during the Jan 6th hearings. I just don’t know why you keep bringing up Jan 6th every time someone mentions the Trump assassination attempt. They are two entirely separate events. It comes across like your biggest concern about the assassination attempt is the sympathy it might garner for Trump’s campaign. We don’t need to be reminded every five minutes that Trump is Trump. 

I wouldn’t trust Trump to run a laundromat. That doesn’t mean I can’t discuss an assassination attempt on a presidential candidate without campaigning for his opponent.