Robert Morrow Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 6 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: Jean, If you go down this rabbit hole, you're going to find out everybody's timing is off by something like 8 minutes. Ultimately you'll come to the conclusion that the timestamps on the DPD Dictabelts are off by that same amount. That is to say, the coverup artists added those minutes to the Dictabelt recordings. Once you compensate for that by subtracting 8 minutes from what is shown on the Dictabelt transcripts, then all is well and everybody's timing works out. Except that Oswald cannot have been there in time to shoot Tippit. Which is fine because he wasn't. Apparently the coverup artists added those extra minutes to give Oswald time to arrive and shoot Tippit. BTW, here's an example of times being inconsistent: The doctors at the hospital tried to resuscitate Tippit. They couldn't, so they pronounced him dead-on-arrival at 1:15 PM. Problem is, according to the Dictabelt timestamps, Tippit hadn't even been picked up by the ambulance by then. J.D. Tippit declared DEAD ON ARRIVAL at the hospital at 1:15PM. They (the Dallas police in the aftermath of the JFK assassination) were playing games with the Dictabelt timestamps. Remember, it was the DALLAS POLICE (or someone manipulating them) who were IMMEDIATELY FRAMING Oswald for the JFK assassination by spewing out Marguerite Oswald's own May, 1960 physical description of him at 12:44PM - as they supposedly were looking for a suspect with a rifle at Elm and Houston streets who was "5 FEET 10 INCHES, 165 POUNDS" Absolute Proof that Lee Harvey Oswald was a *pre-selected* patsy for the JFK assassination: “5 feet 10 inches, 165 pounds” https://robertmorrowpoliticalresearchblog.blogspot.com/2023/01/5-feet-10-inches-165-pounds-is-absolute.html Dallas Police Dispatcher was immediately using Marguerite Oswald’s description of Lee given to Dallas FBI in May, 1960 Once it has been determined that the DALLAS POLICE were framing Oswald for the murder of JFK right out of the gate, then EVERYTHING ELSE they claim to be "evidence" in the JFK or Tippit case must be held to the highest standards of examination. "Don't trust, but verify it if you have absolute proof" is the standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morrow Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 3 hours ago, Bill Brown said: Obviously if the shooting occurred at 1:14/1:15, then the 1:12 bus schedule to stop over one block away is meaningless. What is your reply to this, the part about the doctors at the Hospital (Methodist Hospital, correct?) declaring J.D. Tippit dead at 1:15PM? That would imply a Tippit shooting of about 1:05PM - (5 minutes for ambulance to get there, 5 minutes for ambulance to get to emergency room). Sandy Larson QUOTE If you go down this rabbit hole, you're going to find out everybody's timing is off by something like 8 minutes. Ultimately you'll come to the conclusion that the timestamps on the DPD Dictabelts are off by that same amount. That is to say, the coverup artists added those minutes to the Dictabelt recordings. Once you compensate for that by subtracting 8 minutes from what is shown on the Dictabelt transcripts, then all is well and everybody's timing works out. Except that Oswald cannot have been there in time to shoot Tippit. Which is fine because he wasn't. Apparently the coverup artists added those extra minutes to give Oswald time to arrive and shoot Tippit. BTW, here's an example of times being inconsistent: The doctors at the hospital tried to resuscitate Tippit. They couldn't, so they pronounced him dead-on-arrival at 1:15 PM. Problem is, according to the Dictabelt timestamps, Tippit hadn't even been picked up by the ambulance by then. UNQUOTE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morrow Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 CLOWN BOY Hugh Aynesworth told Shirley Martin he was at the Tippit murder scene between 1:05 and 1:10PM. It had to be earlier than 1:15PM when the doctors at the hospital declared Officer Tippit dead at 1:15PM. http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/A%20Disk/Aynesworth%20Hugh/Item%2001.pdf Here is the text of the Shirley Martin letter to Jim Garrison: May 20, 1967 Dear Mr. Garrison: I am so sorry that Newsweek chose Hugh Aynesworth to use in its rebuttal of you. In the summer of ‘64 I had a long talk with Mr. Aynesworth, introducing myself to him as a friend of a relative to General Clyde Watts, ex-Major General Edwin A. Walker's close friend and attorney (Oxford). Mr. Aynesworth mistakenly assumed that I was a political conservative and immediately deluged me with disgusting anti-Kennedy stories. ("Kennedy needed a trip to Dallas like a hole in the head," etc.) At the same time Mr. Aynesworth heaped what seemed to me to be inordinate praise on the city of Dallas, the Dallas police (Lt. George Butler, Captain Fritz, Chief Curry, etc.), and the Dallas Morning News (for which newspaper Aynesworth was working at the time). He confided, too, that Tom Buchanan (Paris) was a "fairy" and detailed for me a number of extremely slanderous alleged incidents in the life of Mark Lane. In addition, Mr. Aynesworth definitively labeled Mr. Lane a "communist." Aynesworth was extremely bitter that Merriman Smith had won the Pulitzer for his coverage of the assassination. Aynesworth sarcastically remarked that Smith "did nothing and saw less" on the day in question, whereas he, Aynesworth was "...the only reporter in America to make all four big scenes." (1) In addition, Aynesworth boasted that a Commission attorney had already confided to him (in July) what the Commission verdict was to be (in September). Oswald would be named, but according to Aynesworth it was in reality "...a communist plot. Warren will do a cover-up for Moscow." Aynesworth insisted that Marina had had an affair with him after the assassination, and that during this period she had revealed to him that she and Ruth Paine had shared a Lesbian relationship prior to November 22, 1963. Aynesworth also declared that he had been on 10th Street "looking down on the Tippit murder scene at 1:05pm, not later than 1:10..." on November 22nd. (2) Needless to say, the "only reporter in America" to be in on all four "big scenes" was NOT called to testify before the Warren Commission, which did, however, call Thayer Waldo, Fort Worth reporter, because he had been in the police basement when Ruby shot Oswald. (3) Finally, I have the statement by an employee of the Dallas Morning News that Aynesworth was deliberately and ILLEGALLY given the allegedly stolen Oswald diary story by a Commission attorney who was in Dallas on business at that time. Earl Warren later put the FBI on the trail of this illegal "leak", but as was to be expected no discoveries were made. This, then, is the man chosen by Newsweek to rebut you. What a pity Newsweek's taste is so concentrated in its tail. - Sincerely, (Mrs.) Shirley Martin Box 226 Owasso, Oklahoma cc: 10 1 Dealey Plaza, 10th Street, Texas Theatre, Dallas police basement. 2 Thus negating the Commission claim that Oswald. shot both Kennedy and Tippit. 3 Waldo's testimony is pertinent in regard to Lt. Butler (not called by Commission.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 9 hours ago, Robert Morrow said: Helen Markham, in fact, was a very, very good "witness" because she was absolutely cocksure that she saw Officer J.D. Tippit being shot at about 1:06 to 1:07PM. She was so sure about this because she had left the clothes washing machine room at her apartment at 1:04PM and the FBI had timed her walk and it was only a mere 2 to 3 minutes to her witness spot at Tenth and Patten. Helan Markham was a damn good witness because her timing of the death of J.D. Tippit completely absolves Lee Harvey Oswald who the Warren Commission itself says was at his boarding home as late as 1:03PM and that is 9/10ths of a mile away. Testimony Of Mrs. Helen Markham (mu.edu) Mr. BALL. What has been your work most of your life since you were divorced, what kind of work have you done? Mrs. MARKHAM. Waitress work. Mr. BALL. You have done waitress work? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, Sir. Mr. BALL. Where do you work now? Mrs. MARKHAM. Eat Well Restaurant, 1404 Main Street, Dallas, Tex. Mr. BALL. Were you working there on November 22, 1963? Mrs. MARKHAM. I was. Mr. BALL. What hours did you work? Mrs. MARKHAM. I was due at work from 2:30 in the evening until 10:30 at night. Mr. BALL. Did you leave your home some time that morning to go to work? Mrs. MARKHAM. That evening? Mr. BALL. Morning. Mrs. MARKHAM. That morning? Mr. BALL. You left your home to go to work at some time, didn't you, that day? Mrs. MARKHAM. At one. Mr. BALL. One o'clock? Mrs. MARKHAM. I believe it was a little after 1. Mr. BALL. Where did you intend to catch the bus? Mrs. MARKHAM. On Patton and Jefferson. Mr. BALL. Patton and Jefferson is about a block south of Patton and 10th Street, isn't it? Mrs. MARKHAM. I think so. Mr. BALL. Well, where is your home from Patton and Jefferson? Mrs. MARKHAM. I had came--I come one block, I had come one block from my home. Mr. BALL. You were walking, were you? Mrs. MARKHAM. I came from 9th to the corner of 10th Street. Mr. BALL. And you were walking toward Jefferson? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Tenth Street runs the same direction as Jefferson, doesn't it? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. It runs in a generally east and west direction? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And Patton runs north and south? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir; up and down this way. Mr. BALL. So you were walking south toward Jefferson? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. You think it was a little after 1? Mrs. MARKHAM. I wouldn't be afraid to bet it wasn't 6 or 7 minutes after 1. Mr. BALL. You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you? Mrs. MARKHAM. 1:15. Mr. BALL. So it was before 1:15? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it was. Mr. BALL. When you came to the corner of Patton and 10th Street--first of all, what side of the street were you walking on? Mrs. MARKHAM. Now you have got me mixed up on all my streets. I was on the opposite of where this man was. Mr. BALL. Well, you were walking along the street-- Mrs. MARKHAM. On the street. Mr. BALL. On Patton, you were going toward Jefferson? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And you were on the right- or left-hand side of the street as you were walking south? Mrs. MARKHAM. That would be on the left. Mr. BALL. Your right. Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it would be right. Mr. BALL. Right-hand side, wouldn't it? When you came to the corner did you have to stop before you crossed 10th Street? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, I did. Mr. BALL. Why? Mrs. MARKHAM. On account the traffic was coming. Mr. BALL. And you stopped there on the corner? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. That would be the northwest corner, wouldn't it? Mrs. MARKHAM. Northwest corner. Mr. BALL. Is that right? Mrs. MARKHAM. I believe it is. I believe it is the northwest corner. Mr. BALL. Did you see any man walking at that time? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes; I seen this man on the opposite side, across the street from me. He was almost across Patton Street. Mr. BALL. Almost across Patton? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Walking in what direction? Mrs. MARKHAM. I guess this would be south. Mr. BALL. Along 10th, east? Was it along 10th? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Walking away from you, wasn't he? Mrs. MARKHAM. He was walking up 10th, away from me. Mr. BALL. To your left? Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, he was on the opposite side of the street to me like that. Mr. BALL. Had he reached the curb yet? Mrs. MARKHAM. Almost ready to get up on the curb. Mr. BALL. What did you notice then? Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, I noticed a police car coming. Mr. BALL. Where was the police car when you first saw it? Mrs. MARKHAM. He was driving real slow, almost up to this man, well, say this man, and he kept, this man kept walking, you know, and the police car going real slow now, real slow, and they just kept coming into the curb, and finally they got way up there a little ways up, well, it stopped. Mr. BALL. The police car stopped? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. What about the man? Was he still walking? Mrs. MARKHAM. The man stopped. Mr. BALL. Then what did you see the man do? Mrs. MARKHAM. I saw the man come over to the car very slow, leaned and put his arms just like this, he leaned over in this window and looked in this window. Mr. BALL. He put his arms on the window ledge? Mrs. MARKHAM. The window was down. Mr. BALL. It was? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Put his arms on the window ledge? Mrs. MARKHAM. On the ledge of the window. Mr. BALL. And the policeman was sitting where? Mrs. MARKHAM. On the driver's side. Mr. BALL. He was sitting behind the wheel? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Was he alone in the car? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes. Mr. BALL. Then what happened? Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, I didn't think nothing about it; you know, the police are nice and friendly, and I thought friendly conversation. Well, I looked, and there were cars coming, so I had to wait. Well, in a few minutes this man made-- Mr. BALL. What did you see the policeman do? Mrs. MARKHAM. See the policeman? Well, this man, like I told you, put his arms up, leaned over, he just a minute, and he drew back and he stepped back about two steps. Mr. Tippit-- Mr. BALL. The policeman? Mrs. MARKHAM. The policeman calmly opened the car door, very slowly, wasn't angry or nothing, he calmly crawled out of this car, and I still just thought a friendly conversation, maybe disturbance in the house, I did not know; well, just as the policeman got-- Mr. BALL. Which way did he walk? Mrs. MARKHAM. Towards the front of the car. And just as he had gotten even with the wheel on the driver's side-- Mr. BALL. You mean the left front wheel? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes; this man shot the policeman. Mr. BALL. You heard the shots, did you? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. How many shots did you hear? Mrs. MARKHAM. Three. Mr. BALL. What did you see the policeman do? Mrs. MARKHAM. He fell to the ground, and his cap went a little ways out on the street. Mr. BALL. What did the man do? Mrs. MARKHAM. The man, he just walked calmly, fooling with his gun. Mr. BALL. Toward what direction did he walk? Mrs. MARKHAM. Come back towards me, turned around, and went back. Mr. BALL. Toward Patton? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir; towards Patton. He didn't run. It just didn't scare him to death. He didn't run. When he saw me he looked at me, stared at me. I put my hands over my face like this, closed my eyes. I gradually opened my fingers like this, and 1 opened my eyes, and when I did he started off in kind of a little trot. Mr. BALL. Which way? Mrs. MARKHAM. Sir? Mr. BALL. Which way? Mrs. MARKHAM. Towards Jefferson, right across that way. Mr. DULLES. Did he have the pistol in his hand at this time? Mrs. MARKHAM. He had the gun when I saw him. Mr. BALL. Did you yell at him? Mrs. MARKHAM. When I pulled my fingers down where I could see, I got my hand down, he began to trot off, and then I ran to the policeman. Mr. BALL. Before you put your hands over your eyes, before you put your hand over your eyes, did you see the man walk towards the corner? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes. Mr. BALL. What did he do? Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, he stared at me. Mr. BALL. What did you do? Mrs. MARKHAM. I didn't do anything. I couldn't. Mr. BALL. Didn't you say something? Mrs. MARKHAM. No, I couldn't. Mr. BALL. Or yell or scream? Mrs. MARKHAM. I could not. I could not say nothing. Mr. BALL. You looked at him? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes. Mr. BALL. You looked at him Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. He looked wild. I mean, well, he did to me. Mr. BALL. And you say you saw him fooling with his gun? Mrs. MARKHAM. He had it in his hands. Mr. BALL. Did you see what he was doing with it? Mrs. MARKHAM. He was just fooling with it. I didn't know what he was doing. I was afraid he was fixing to kill me. Mr. BALL. How far away from the police car do you think you were on the corner when you saw the shooting? Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, I wasn't too far. Mr. BALL. Can you estimate it in feet? Don't guess. Mrs. MARKHAM. I would just be afraid to say how many feet because I am a bad judgment on that. Mr. BALL. When you looked at the man, though, when he came toward the corner, you were standing on one corner, were you? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir Mr. BALL. Where was he standing with reference to the other corner? Mrs. MARKHAM. After he had shot-- Mr. BALL. When he looked at you. Mrs. MARKHAM. After he had shot the policeman? Mr. BALL. Yes. Mrs. MARKHAM. He was standing almost even to that curb, not very far from the curb, from the sidewalk. Mr. BALL. Across the street from you? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Did he look at you? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And did you look at him? Mrs. MARKHAM. I sure did. Mr. BALL. That was before you put your hands over your eyes? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir; and he kept fooling with his gun, and I slapped my hands up to my face like this. Mr. BALL. And then you ran to the policeman? Mrs. MARKHAM. After he ran off. Mr. BALL. In what hand did he have his gun, do you know, when he fired the shots? Mrs. MARKHAM. Sir, I believe it was his right. I am not positive because I was scared. Mr. BALL. When he came down the street towards you, in what hand did he have his gun? Mrs. MARKHAM. He had it in both of them. Mr. BALL. He had it in both of them? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. When he went towards Jefferson you say he went at sort of a trot? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Did he cross Patton? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. DULLES. Were there many other, or other people in the block at that time, or were you there with Officer Tippit almost alone? Mrs. MARKHAM. I was out there, I didn't see anybody. I was there alone by myself. Mr. DULLES. I see. You didn't see anybody else in the immediate neighborhood? Mrs. MARKHAM. No; not until everything was over--I never seen anybody until I was at Mr. Tippit's side. I tried to save his life, which was I didn't know at that time I couldn't do something for him. Alfredda Scobey (a protégé of Georgia Senator and commission member Richard Russell) writes in her article "A Lawyer's Motes on the Warren Commission Report" in the January 1965 issue of the Amercian Bar Association Journal: "This witness was hysterical. Her initial description of Oswald . . . was inaccurate. . . . Her original identification of Oswald in a line-up occurred after she had been given sedatives, and she remained hysterical for several hours after the event." I've never read about sedatives elsewhere, but I have about Leavell giving her smelling salts (which he denied then said, well maybe) to calm her down enough that after hemming and hawing, with help she picked Oswald in the lineup. She didn't ID him as the man she had seen per se, he "gave her chills". Page 264, Into the Nightmare, Joseph McBride. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant commission counsel who took some of Markam's testimony, told his counterpart Norman Redlich that her testimony was "worthless." Redlich replied, "The commission wants to believe Mrs. Markham and that's all there is to it." . . . In the most farcical passage of her testimony on March 26, 1964, denied no fewer than six times that she had recognized Oswald in the police lineup on November 22. Finally, she had to be prompted by the exasperated assistant counsel Joseph Ball with the kind of leading questions that would be inadmissible in a courtroom: . . . Markham. Number two. Ball. What did you say when you saw number two? Markham. Well, let me tell you. I said the second man, and they kept asking me which one. I said the second man, and they kept asking me which one, which one? i said number two. When I said number two, I just got weak. Ball. What about number two, what did you mean when you said number two? Markham. Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman. Ball. You recognized him from his appearance? Markham. I asked -- I looked at him. When I saw this man I Wasn't Sure, But I had Cold Chills Just Run All Over Me. It was in a December 4, 1964, debate with (Mark) Lane . . . that Joseph Ball offered his memorable characterization of Markham as "an utter screwball" and threw up his hands as he made the remark. Pages 479-483, ITN. There is more to the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Years ago I reconstructed a Tippit shooting timeline based on times from multiple sources. It is documented here: As I describe in the post, it consists of a preliminary timeline, followed by a timing analysis, and then the final timeline. Tippit was shot at 1:06 PM. T.F Bowley calls the shooting in on Tippit's radio at 1:09 PM. The ambulance arrives at 1:10 PM. Officer Croy arrives at 1:11 PM. The ambulance departs at 1:11 - 1:12 PM. Officer Poe and Patrolman L.E. Jez arrive at 1:12 - 1:13 PM, and interview an excited Helen Markham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morrow Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 3 hours ago, Ron Bulman said: Alfredda Scobey (a protégé of Georgia Senator and commission member Richard Russell) writes in her article "A Lawyer's Motes on the Warren Commission Report" in the January 1965 issue of the Amercian Bar Association Journal: "This witness was hysterical. Her initial description of Oswald . . . was inaccurate. . . . Her original identification of Oswald in a line-up occurred after she had been given sedatives, and she remained hysterical for several hours after the event." I've never read about sedatives elsewhere, but I have about Leavell giving her smelling salts (which he denied then said, well maybe) to calm her down enough that after hemming and hawing, with help she picked Oswald in the lineup. She didn't ID him as the man she had seen per se, he "gave her chills". Page 264, Into the Nightmare, Joseph McBride. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant commission counsel who took some of Markam's testimony, told his counterpart Norman Redlich that her testimony was "worthless." Redlich replied, "The commission wants to believe Mrs. Markham and that's all there is to it." . . . In the most farcical passage of her testimony on March 26, 1964, denied no fewer than six times that she had recognized Oswald in the police lineup on November 22. Finally, she had to be prompted by the exasperated assistant counsel Joseph Ball with the kind of leading questions that would be inadmissible in a courtroom: . . . Markham. Number two. Ball. What did you say when you saw number two? Markham. Well, let me tell you. I said the second man, and they kept asking me which one. I said the second man, and they kept asking me which one, which one? i said number two. When I said number two, I just got weak. Ball. What about number two, what did you mean when you said number two? Markham. Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman. Ball. You recognized him from his appearance? Markham. I asked -- I looked at him. When I saw this man I Wasn't Sure, But I had Cold Chills Just Run All Over Me. It was in a December 4, 1964, debate with (Mark) Lane . . . that Joseph Ball offered his memorable characterization of Markham as "an utter screwball" and threw up his hands as he made the remark. Pages 479-483, ITN. There is more to the story. The 6 times that Markham said she did not recognize Oswald was probably a simple misunderstanding of what she was being questioned about. Markhan, in my mind, was responding to a question in her mind that was did you KNOW this man, have you KNOWN him previously. And the answer to that was no. I do think her Warren Commission testimony was coached and she screwed her lines. And, no, I don't think she actually say Oswald at 10th and Patten but by her W.C. testimony she knew she was supposed to SAY that. Jmho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morrow Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said: Years ago I reconstructed a Tippit shooting timeline based on times from multiple sources. It is documented here: As I describe in the post, it consists of a preliminary timeline, followed by a timing analysis, and then the final timeline. Tippit was shot at 1:06 PM. T.F Bowley calls the shooting in on Tippit's radio at 1:09 PM. The ambulance arrives at 1:10 PM. Officer Croy arrives at 1:11 PM. The ambulance departs at 1:11 - 1:12 PM. Officer Poe and Patrolman L.E. Jez arrive at 1:12 - 1:13 PM, and interview an excited Helen Markham. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Robert Morrow said: The 6 times that Markham said she did not recognize Oswald was probably a simple misunderstanding of what she was being questioned about. Markhan, in my mind, was responding to a question in her mind that was did you KNOW this man, have you KNOWN him previously. And the answer to that was no. I do think her Warren Commission testimony was coached and she screwed her lines. And, no, I don't think she actually say Oswald at 10th and Patten but by her W.C. testimony she knew she was supposed to SAY that. Jmho. She did know Ruby. They pretty well had to know. Why did they never ask? Edited August 1 by Ron Bulman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Jesus Posted Thursday at 10:09 AM Share Posted Thursday at 10:09 AM (edited) 19 hours ago, Robert Morrow said: Gil Jesus- question - Was Helen Markham on the way to catch the 1:15PM bus or was it the 1:12PM bus? That is a very big distinction to make. I have always heard it was the 1:12PM. Am I right or wrong on this matter? Does anyone have absolute proof as to whether the waitress Helen Markham was on the way to the 1:12PM or 1:15PM bus. Thanks in advance to Gil Jesus or anyone else on Education Forum who can provide clarification on this matter. Bob, what she referred to as the "1:15 bus" was actually scheduled to arrive at the corner of Jefferson and Patton Ave at 1:12. Here's the FBI report on what they found when they went to the bus company and inquired about the arrival time of the bus. In the white section of this document, you'll see that the FBI timed the walking distance from the washateria where Markham lived ( 328 East 9th St. ) to the corner of 10th and Patton. It was 2 1/2 minutes. Markham said that she left her apartment "a little after one". ( 3 H 306 ) This timing is completely consistent with her estimate that she arrived at 10th and Patton at 1:06. Anybody who believes that Tippit was shot at 1:15 or later must prove that Markham stood on that corner for almost 10 minutes. In order to suport their position that Tippit was shot after 1:15, some members have spectulated on this forum that Markham was going to meet the NEXT bus, at 1:22. But there's no evidence of that. Why would she call the 1:22 bus "the 1:15 bus" ? No, she was going to meet the bus that arrived at that bus stop around 1:12 and left at 1:15. This means that if the Tippit killing was at or after 1:15, she would have been on her bus. Markham's presence on the corner of 10th and Patton is the proof that the murder occurred BEFORE 1:15. And the Commission knew that because that's what she testified to. ( 3 H 306 ) More of the story that Myers doesn't tell you: https://gil-jesus.com/the-tippit-timing/ Edited Thursday at 11:01 AM by Gil Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Ceulemans Posted Thursday at 12:03 PM Share Posted Thursday at 12:03 PM (edited) Unless the bus was running late that day? But as it seems they didn´t bother to ask. Considering the timing of that bus, at that place, they should have questioned the driver anyway. He was probably the only person that was actually watching his clock. As the timing was so close and important, well... Edited Thursday at 12:04 PM by Jean Ceulemans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morrow Posted Thursday at 02:23 PM Share Posted Thursday at 02:23 PM 4 hours ago, Gil Jesus said: Bob, what she referred to as the "1:15 bus" was actually scheduled to arrive at the corner of Jefferson and Patton Ave at 1:12. Here's the FBI report on what they found when they went to the bus company and inquired about the arrival time of the bus. In the white section of this document, you'll see that the FBI timed the walking distance from the washateria where Markham lived ( 328 East 9th St. ) to the corner of 10th and Patton. It was 2 1/2 minutes. Markham said that she left her apartment "a little after one". ( 3 H 306 ) This timing is completely consistent with her estimate that she arrived at 10th and Patton at 1:06. Anybody who believes that Tippit was shot at 1:15 or later must prove that Markham stood on that corner for almost 10 minutes. In order to suport their position that Tippit was shot after 1:15, some members have spectulated on this forum that Markham was going to meet the NEXT bus, at 1:22. But there's no evidence of that. Why would she call the 1:22 bus "the 1:15 bus" ? No, she was going to meet the bus that arrived at that bus stop around 1:12 and left at 1:15. This means that if the Tippit killing was at or after 1:15, she would have been on her bus. Markham's presence on the corner of 10th and Patton is the proof that the murder occurred BEFORE 1:15. And the Commission knew that because that's what she testified to. ( 3 H 306 ) More of the story that Myers doesn't tell you: https://gil-jesus.com/the-tippit-timing/ Thank you for the one-millionth time on something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted Friday at 02:11 AM Share Posted Friday at 02:11 AM (edited) 14 hours ago, Jean Ceulemans said: Unless the bus was running late that day? My guess is that Helen Markham very likely timed it so that she would be at the Jefferson & Patton bus stop at approximately 1:15 every day, and she would (of course) then catch the next bus to come by that was going downtown (whenever that was, at 1:22, or whenever). That way, she would be a little early to catch the next bus. Makes sense to me anyway. And the FBI report in CD630 clearly indicates that "the bus is scheduled to pass this point [at Patton and Jefferson] at about 1:12 PM and every ten minutes thereafter". So it's fairly clear that if Mrs. Markham didn't catch the 1:12 bus, she could have caught another bus at about 1:22 or 1:32. And since she didn't have to be at work until 2:30 PM, there was plenty of time to spare, even if she had to take one of those later busses. But it makes no sense for her to regularly get to the bus stop at 1:15 if she was really trying to catch a 1:12 bus. That's crazy. More Bus Talk: http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com / Mrs. Markham's Bus Edited Friday at 02:14 AM by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted Friday at 06:16 AM Share Posted Friday at 06:16 AM (edited) 4 hours ago, David Von Pein said: My guess is that Helen Markham very likely timed it so that she would be at the Jefferson & Patton bus stop at approximately 1:15 every day, and she would (of course) then catch the next bus to come by that was going downtown (whenever that was, at 1:22, or whenever). That way, she would be a little early to catch the next bus. Makes sense to me anyway. And the FBI report in CD630 clearly indicates that "the bus is scheduled to pass this point [at Patton and Jefferson] at about 1:12 PM and every ten minutes thereafter". So it's fairly clear that if Mrs. Markham didn't catch the 1:12 bus, she could have caught another bus at about 1:22 or 1:32. And since she didn't have to be at work until 2:30 PM, there was plenty of time to spare, even if she had to take one of those later busses. But it makes no sense for her to regularly get to the bus stop at 1:15 if she was really trying to catch a 1:12 bus. That's crazy. More Bus Talk: http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com / Mrs. Markham's Bus Your guess is called a theory David. I think she was heading towards the 1:12 buss. You and Bill believe in a Pristine Magic Bullet. Why not a Magic Buss? Edited Friday at 06:17 AM by Ron Bulman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Jesus Posted Friday at 10:00 AM Share Posted Friday at 10:00 AM (edited) 3 hours ago, Ron Bulman said: Your guess is called a theory David. I think she was heading towards the 1:12 buss. You and Bill believe in a Pristine Magic Bullet. Why not a Magic Buss? Ron, as usual, the Lone Nutters have nothing to contribute but guesses, opinions, speculations and "what makes sense". But no evidence. Markham testified that the shooting occurred BEFORE 1: 15 because she hadn't yet caught her bus. Mr BALL. You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you ? Mrs MARKHAM. 1:15 Mr. BALL So it was BEFORE 1:15 ? Mrs MARKHAM Yes it was. ( 3 H 306 ) NOT 1:22, NOT 1:25, she caught the 1:15 bus. It's been explained to these people time and time again. They refuse to accept it. I've shown where the times on the documents were altered, but they ignore that and still refer to those documents as if they are reliable. This isn't about "what makes sense" to Mr. Von Pein. It's about what the evidence says. At the same time Helen Markham is leaving her apartment, ( "a little after 1" / 3 H 306 ) Oswald is seen standing at a bus stop in front of his rooming house by Earlene Roberts. There's no way that he could have walked to the corner of 10th and Patton in the 2 1/2 minutes the FBI said it took her to get there. ( FBI file # 62-109060, Sec 54, pg. 134 ) Talk about "what makes sense". I don't give a rat's ass what Dale Myers says. Oswald didn't kill Tippit. Period. Edited Friday at 10:04 AM by Gil Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted Friday at 11:01 AM Share Posted Friday at 11:01 AM (edited) 1 hour ago, Gil Jesus said: Oswald didn't kill Tippit. The things that JFK CTers continue to ignore year after year is simply staggering. [Like this basic fact, for example.] Edited Friday at 11:02 AM by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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