"The Same Man"

[Sean Coleman]

29 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

The things that JFK CTers continue to ignore year after year is simply staggering. [Like this basic fact, for example.]

 

Actually, your staggering basic fact makes quite a bit of sense, I like it, good theory!
 

[Jean Ceulemans]

On 8/2/2024 at 1:35 PM, Sean Coleman said:

Actually, your staggering basic fact makes quite a bit of sense, I like it, good theory!
 

David does have some excellent theories, but he himself will not agree 😀 This whole case is a chicken-on-the-bone-sandwich. And a litttle addictive..

Edited Sunday at 12:07 PM by Jean Ceulemans

[Bill Brown]

On 7/31/2024 at 8:22 PM, Jean Ceulemans said:

 I don´t know the exact route it was on, so it never was near the crime scene?

 

The bus stop in question was one block south of Tenth & Patton at Jefferson & Patton.

 

[Bill Brown]

On 8/1/2024 at 6:09 AM, Gil Jesus said:

Bob, what she referred to as the "1:15 bus" was actually scheduled to arrive at the corner of Jefferson and Patton Ave at 1:12. Here's the FBI report on what they found when they went to the bus company and inquired about the arrival time of the bus.

 

In the white section of this document, you'll see that the FBI timed the walking distance from the washateria where Markham lived ( 328 East 9th St. ) to the corner of 10th and Patton. It was 2 1/2 minutes. Markham said that she left her apartment "a little after one". ( 3 H 306 )

This timing is completely consistent with her estimate that she arrived at 10th and Patton at 1:06. Anybody who believes that Tippit was shot at 1:15 or later must prove that Markham stood on that corner for almost 10 minutes.

In order to suport their position that Tippit was shot after 1:15, some members have spectulated on this forum that Markham was going to meet the NEXT bus, at 1:22. But there's no evidence of that. Why would she call the 1:22 bus "the 1:15 bus" ? No, she was going to meet the bus that arrived at that bus stop around 1:12 and left at 1:15. This means that if the Tippit killing was at or after 1:15, she would have been on her bus.

Markham's presence on the corner of 10th and Patton is the proof that the murder occurred BEFORE 1:15. And the Commission knew that because that's what she testified to. ( 3 H 306 )

More of the story that Myers doesn't tell you:

https://gil-jesus.com/the-tippit-timing/

 

Your entire point is moot if she was trying to catch the 1:22 bus.

She never says anything about a 1:12 bus.

 

[Ron Bulman]

On 7/31/2024 at 7:15 PM, Steve Thomas said:

This doesn't make any sense to me.

Based on what Markham said, Oswald had been walking east on 10th St, and was crossing Patton, almost ready to step up on the curb.

Where was he coming from?

Steve Thomas

Don't ask such hard questions Steve.  No one can answer them, logically.

[Robert Morrow]

On 8/2/2024 at 3:54 PM, Bill Brown said:

 

Your entire point is moot if she was trying to catch the 1:22 bus.

She never says anything about a 1:12 bus.

 

Helen Markham's apartment on 9th street (still there today) was not really that far from the bus stop. Maybe a 6 minute walk max? I bet you know *precisely* how close her apartment was to the bus stop, don't you? I bet you can measure it in feet or yards. [In fact, why don't you go on Google Maps and tell me exactly how many yards Helen Markham would have had to walk to her bus stop on Jefferson?]

So if she left her apartment laundry at 1:04PM or "just after 1PM" she would arrive at the bus stop at 1:10PM. Is that so she can wait for the arrival of the 1:22PM which is not really going to depart until maybe 1:25PM?

Why does she want to stand at the bus stop or even sit on it from 1:10 PM to 1:25 PM, 15 minutes of her life doing nothing? Most people who live that close to a bus stop and who take it all the time have their timing down perfectly as to when they head to the bus.

I don't think most people want to waste 15 minutes of their life waiting for a bus to leave; they stay in their apartment until the absolutely need to go to the bus stop, especially if it is that close by. And they head to the bus stop when they know they NEED to go to the bus stop.

Just my never humble OPINON.

Edited Sunday at 07:22 AM by Robert Morrow

[Robert Morrow]

On 8/2/2024 at 3:54 PM, Bill Brown said:

 

Your entire point is moot if she was trying to catch the 1:22 bus.

She never says anything about a 1:12 bus.

 

Where was the EXACT RESIDENCE of Helen Markham? Where would that be on a map today? Where was the precise location of the bus stop Markham going to? Is it the same location there is a bus stop today or has it the bus stop location changed since November, 1963.

Here is Helen Markham's affidavit for the Dallas police. I do not know what day she actually signed this.

She says she lives at 328 1/2 East 9th Street, Dallas, TX and she places the time of the Tippit shooting at 1:06PM on 11/22//1963:

[Affidavit in Any Fact - Statement by Helen Markham, November 22, 1963 #1] - Page 1 of 2 - The Portal to Texas History (unt.edu) 

How long does it take to walk at a normal unhurried pace from 328 1/2 East 9th street to the bus stop location that Markham used to go to in November of 1963? What is the exact distance in feet or yards from Markham's home to the then 1963 bus stop on Jefferson?

 

Edited Sunday at 04:37 AM by Robert Morrow

[Ron Bulman]

The big question is, if she was a block away when she saw Tippit shot at 1:06, why would she have been heading to the 1:22 bus stop when she had one block to go to the 1:12 buss stop.  With 6 minutes to get there on a route she was well familiar with?

[Gil Jesus]

On 8/2/2024 at 7:35 AM, Sean Coleman said:

Actually, your staggering basic fact makes quite a bit of sense, I like it, good theory!
 

Mr. Von Pein's "basic fact" isn't a fact at all, but instead is a link to another one of his usual sarcastic tirades on how "somebody else used Oswald's gun". What's "staggering" is how he can refer to the pistol as Oswald's when he can't produce documentation from REA Express that Oswald even received the weapon.

Before you can call it Oswald's, you have to prove that it wasn't a, "throw down" that McDonald tried to place into Oswald's waistband. You do that by producing documentation from REA Express that Oswald, in fact, received the weapon.

Mr. Von Pein also ignores the FACT that the bullets removed from Tippit's body did not match the revolver in evidence. Was this handgun the only .38 in the world that had been rechambered for .38 Special ammunition ?

He also ignores the FACT that no witness put the time of the Tippit shooting at or after 1:15.

He also ignores the FACT that the bullets removed from Tippit's body did not match the shell casings found at the scene.

He ignores the FACT that the persons who found the shells could not identify the shells in evidence as the shells they found. This includes the police officer who marked the shells. This severely damages the chain of custody which should begin AT THE POINT OF DISCOVERY, not in some police lab.

He ignores the FACT that three of the four spent shells found at the crime scene had initials on them of persons not known to be in the chain of custody of those shells. ( DPD Box 7, pg. 478 )

He ignores the FACT that witnesses to the shooting did not identify the coat in evidence as the coat the killer wore.

He ignores the FACT that Helen Markham testified that she had never seen Oswald prior to the police lineup.

He ignores the FACT that TWO witnesses saw Oswald INSIDE the Texas Theater prior to 1:15.

The only one here ignoring the FACTS is Mr. Von Pein.

Edited Sunday at 11:40 AM by Gil Jesus

[Bill Brown]

16 hours ago, Robert Morrow said:

Helen Markham's apartment on 9th street (still there today) was not really that far from the bus stop. Maybe a 6 minute walk max? I bet you know *precisely* how close her apartment was to the bus stop, don't you? I bet you can measure it in feet or yards. [In fact, why don't you go on Google Maps and tell me exactly how many yards Helen Markham would have had to walk to her bus stop on Jefferson?]

So if she left her apartment laundry at 1:04PM or "just after 1PM" she would arrive at the bus stop at 1:10PM. Is that so she can wait for the arrival of the 1:22PM which is not really going to depart until maybe 1:25PM?

Why does she want to stand at the bus stop or even sit on it from 1:10 PM to 1:25 PM, 15 minutes of her life doing nothing? Most people who live that close to a bus stop and who take it all the time have their timing down perfectly as to when they head to the bus.

I don't think most people want to waste 15 minutes of their life waiting for a bus to leave; they stay in their apartment until the absolutely need to go to the bus stop, especially if it is that close by. And they head to the bus stop when they know they NEED to go to the bus stop.

Just my never humble OPINON.

 

It is my opinion that she did not leave her apartment at 1:04.

The time stamps on the police tapes support my opinion.

 

[Robert Morrow]

8 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

 

It is my opinion that she did not leave her apartment at 1:04.

The time stamps on the police tapes support my opinion.

 

How about telling us how many feet/yards from the front Helen Markham's home to the 1963 location of the bus stop on Jefferson Steet was? Is the 2024 location of the bus stop on Jefferson the same location as the 1963 location of the bus stop?

I figure you have the answer to both of these questions.

I know you don't think Markham left her home at 1:04PM. (Or just after 1PM as she told the Warren Commission.)

[Robert Morrow]

9 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

Mr. Von Pein's "basic fact" isn't a fact at all, but instead is a link to another one of his usual sarcastic tirades on how "somebody else used Oswald's gun". What's "staggering" is how he can refer to the pistol as Oswald's when he can't produce documentation from REA Express that Oswald even received the weapon.

Before you can call it Oswald's, you have to prove that it wasn't a, "throw down" that McDonald tried to place into Oswald's waistband. You do that by producing documentation from REA Express that Oswald, in fact, received the weapon.

Mr. Von Pein also ignores the FACT that the bullets removed from Tippit's body did not match the revolver in evidence. Was this handgun the only .38 in the world that had been rechambered for .38 Special ammunition ?

He also ignores the FACT that no witness put the time of the Tippit shooting at or after 1:15.

He also ignores the FACT that the bullets removed from Tippit's body did not match the shell casings found at the scene.

He ignores the FACT that the persons who found the shells could not identify the shells in evidence as the shells they found. This includes the police officer who marked the shells. This severely damages the chain of custody which should begin AT THE POINT OF DISCOVERY, not in some police lab.

He ignores the FACT that three of the four spent shells found at the crime scene had initials on them of persons not known to be in the chain of custody of those shells. ( DPD Box 7, pg. 478 )

He ignores the FACT that witnesses to the shooting did not identify the coat in evidence as the coat the killer wore.

He ignores the FACT that Helen Markham testified that she had never seen Oswald prior to the police lineup.

He ignores the FACT that TWO witnesses saw Oswald INSIDE the Texas Theater prior to 1:15.

The only one here ignoring the FACTS is Mr. Von Pein.

Is the 2024 location of the bus stop on Jefferson in the same location as the 1963 location of the bus stop on Jefferson that Helen Markham would go to? Or has the location changed? Thank you.

[Gil Jesus]

12 hours ago, Robert Morrow said:

Is the 2024 location of the bus stop on Jefferson in the same location as the 1963 location of the bus stop on Jefferson that Helen Markham would go to? Or has the location changed? Thank you.

I have no idea. I'm not from the area. All I'm aware of is what the evidence said back in 1964.

[Gil Jesus]

On 8/2/2024 at 4:54 PM, Bill Brown said:

 

Your entire point is moot if she was trying to catch the 1:22 bus.

She never says anything about a 1:12 bus.

 

She never said anything about a 1:22 bus either, so what's your point ?

[Gil Jesus]

Earlene Roberts, Oswald's housekeeper, says in this video that Oswald entered the rooming house after 1 o'clock and that she saw him out at the bus stop after he left.

https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/roberts-at-bus-stop.mp4

She testified that he was in his room "about 3 or 4 minutes". ( 6 H 438 ) In her affidavit of Dec. 5, 1963, she said that Oswald was "standing on the curb at the bus stop, just to the right and on the same side of the street as our house."  ( 7 H 439 )

THIS IS AT THE SAME TIME HELEN MARKHAM IS LEAVING HER APARTMENT FOR THE 2 1/2 MINUTE WALK TO THE CORNER OF PATTON AVE AND 10TH STREET.

There is no way in hell that Oswald could have walked from that bus stop to the corner of 10th and Patton in the 2 1/2 minutes the FBI said it took Markham to get there.

Oswald was witnessed STANDING at the bus stop at 1:03-1:04. He wasn't walking and he wasn't headed towards the Tippit murder scene. In fact, that bus stop was for a northbound bus that would have taken him AWAY from the murder scene.

Even if he had immediately left the bus stop after Roberts turned away, ( according to the FBI ) it would have taken him 14 minutes to arrive at the crime scene, or 1-2 minutes AFTER Bowley had made his call on the police radio ( according to the dictabelt and transcripts ).

Oswald didn't kill Tippit.

 

Edited Monday at 11:24 AM by Gil Jesus