Did Batchelor Escort Ruby From the Back Door in an Elevator to the Basement?

[Ron Bulman]

I'm re-reading Edgar F. Tatro's article Ruby Tried to Snitch in issue 8 of Garrison, the magazine from 11/2021.  I guess this went right over my head or I forgot about it, some of it was highlighted from my original reading.  

I do remember reading a few years ago an article posted here from Kennedy's and King by David Josephs and his work with John Armstrong on Ruby entering through the back door of City Hall and going downstairs to the basement, a diagram, pictures posted by him or others of Western Union and where Ruby parked from that back door.  From Tatro's article:

Perhaps the simplest explanation was provided by Ray Gallager, who sent researcher Jim DiEugenio a photo depicting the Western Union office taken from one of the open doors behind City Hall.  He wrote, it was an eye opener.  The proximity was such that you could signal someone.  In other words, Ruby's timing did not have to be exquisite.  He could have just been waiting in his car at Western Union for the proper moment.

Also, from the article.  One other unsubstantiated allegation for consideration is that Jack ruby was escorted to the police basement by Dallas Assistant Chief of Police Charles Batchelor via a service elevator.  Researcher Gary Shaw published the accusation in 1976, based on an article in 1974 by Penn Jones, which stated, "We learned from men in the Dallas Police Department that Ruby was 'escorted' by assistant Chief of Police, Chief Charles Batchelor, to the spot where ruby shot Oswald." 

In 1976 Mark Lane also said witnesses, albeit frightened, repeated the accusation in private.  In 1989 Harry Livingstone talked to Roy Vaughn's lawyer, James Neil, who said that Red Davis of the Dallas Police told Vaughn after he passed his lie detector test . . . told him that Batchelor took Ruby inside via an elevator.  Livingstone claimed that several policemen had made affidavits that Batchelor was the guilty party and Roy Vaughn's lawyer had brought a suit regarding the accusation, but, apparently nothing came of it, and the trail of hearsay is cold as of now.  Livingston also interviewed Roy Vaughn in person and confirmed Red Davis comment. 

They may be unsubstantiated allegations, a trail of hearsay.  But if you have four sources, independent of each other, telling the same story is it not suspicious?  Worthy of consideration?  Jones, Lane, Red Davis via Vaughn's attorney James Neil, then Vaughn later confirming it? 

 

Edited August 8 by Ron Bulman

[Joe Bauer]

On 8/2/2024 at 10:25 PM, Ron Bulman said:

They may be unsubstantiated allegations, a trail of hearsay.  But if you have four sources, independent of each other, telling the same story is it not suspicious?  Worthy of consideration?  Jones, Lane, Red Davis via Vaughn's attorney James Neil, then Vaughn later confirming it? 

In my opinion, it's enough sources to validate at least some consideration of the story being possibly true.

Other reasons to suspect even more a DPD inside job conspiracy are many.

Yes, almost all hearsay. But cumulatively the suspicion becomes more reasonable.

The decision ( by Curry and Fritz ) to move Oswald like they did, ignoring much serious concern expressed by others in their own department that the entire daytime, publicly announced, press crowd exposure plan was crazy versus an unannounced nighttime movement with no crowds, is not hear say. It was fact.

I will always remember Oswald's right side security hold officer in his parading through the basement press crowd ( detective James Leavelle) saying blatantly in an interview that JFK being killed wasn't that big of deal to him versus one of his own being murdered by Oswald.

I surmise that a majority of the DPD in 1963 were Kennedy haters and felt the same way.

They wanted this fellow cop killer Oswald dead way more for killing one of their own than for his alleged killing of JFK.

If this DPD Oswald rage/vengeance sentiment is true to any degree, the DPD inside job theory is bolstered.

Leavelle also loved to share his one-on-one morbid comment to Oswald just before he led him to his murder. Something like..."well Lee, if anyone takes a shot at you I hope they are not as accurate as you were."

There is something unsettling about Leavelle's comment imo.

If Leavelle even entertained the thought that someone could try and get a shot into Oswald ( inside their own building?) wouldn't you think Leavelle himself might have thought a publicly broadcast, daytime movement of Oswald and through a flash bulb blinding, frantic yelling crammed basement press crowd might not be the best security plan?

I wonder if Leavelle was among those in the DPD that thought moving Oswald unannounced, in the cover of nighttime darkness and not through a jam packed, yelling, blinding light press crowd just feet away made lower security risk sense?

A naive Oswald's response to Leavelle..."ah, you're being too melodramatic. No one's going to shoot at me."

Minutes later ... BOOM!

The whole Ruby shooting Oswald right inside the DPD building affair STINKS!

As "salt of the Earth" Dealey Plaza eye-witness railroad man Richard Dodd told Mark Lane in Lane's "Rush To Judgment" documentary ( paraphrasing ) "why, when a man can get shot and killed with two policemens a holdin on to him, why somethings a goin on there that ain't what it should be."

Amen Mr. Dodd!

 

Edited August 8 by Joe Bauer

[Ron Bulman]

This is all becoming clear as I search despite suppression and ayyi - the same thing.  Googling multiple combinations of DJ, K&K, Educaton Forum resulted in almost nothing.  I know I've read a thread on this site where DJ presented diagrams and explanations.  I think he also wrote an article on K&K relating to it.

Whether Batchelor escorted Ruby or not, it seems he went in the back door of the City Annex and down the stairs to the basement, or possibly escorted down the service elevator.

Look at the diagrams, there are more clearer ones plus pictures. 

Patrick Dean in charge of basement security, moved officer Brock and reserve officer Worley from guarding the area to traffic duty outside.  Reserve officer Croy, (of infamous fame at the Tippit murder regarding a wallet, one of several) reputedly took over security of the stairs/service elevator.  He let Ruby and maybe Batchelor pass.

Roy Vaughn passed a lie detector test saying Ruby didn't come down the ramp.  Patrick Dean asked for one, wrote his own questions and failed it.

[Kevin Balch]

From what I recall, the Tippit killing didn’t get much attention in the interrogation. Oswald denied everything about it and I assume the Tippit murder charge was based on the lineup identification.

I just read Batchelor’s Warren Commission testimony and from what I can tell, he was in the basement during the time it is alleged he would have been escorting Ruby. He spent a lot of time arranging the use of an armored car from a private agency and getting the clearances in the garage measured to see if it would fit. When the driver arrived, he did not want to back the car down the ramp because of concern for the engine. So it was left at the top of the ramp. In the meantime, Batchelor was informed that the plan was changed to use the armored car as a decoy.

[Kevin Balch]

I remember a scene in the movie The Sting where a Western Union office was “borrowed” as part of the con to convince the mark that they got early race results.

[Ron Bulman]

59 minutes ago, Kevin Balch said:

I just read Batchelor’s Warren Commission testimony and from what I can tell, he was in the basement during the time it is alleged he would have been escorting Ruby.

Would you expect him to tell the Warren Commission if he did escort Ruby to the basement?

[Kevin Balch]

20 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Would you expect him to tell the Warren Commission if he did escort Ruby to the basement?

No. But if he had escorted Ruby, I would expect Batchelor’s whereabouts to be unaccounted for in the 15 minutes prior to the shooting of Oswald. Is there any indication Batchelor’s testimony is in conflict with others in this time period?

[Ron Bulman]

Here is the article I was looking for by David Josephs and John Armstrong, with diagrams and pictures you won't see anywhere else.  Well worth the full read for anyone really interested.

Oswald_Killed (harveyandlee.net)

[Ron Bulman]

19 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Here is the article I was looking for by David Josephs and John Armstrong, with diagrams and pictures you won't see anywhere else.  Well worth the full read for anyone really interested.

Oswald_Killed (harveyandlee.net)

Re-reading this last night I thought, no Batchelor, they have Westbrook observing Western Union from a second-floor window and Ruby parking and going in, possibly waiting until he came out and headed to the back door.  Then going back up the adjoining stairs, past Fritz office signaling him on the way by that Ruby was on the way.

Then I thought, this is not mutually exclusive to Batchelor escorting Ruby.  If he was in the basement attending to the armored car, he was in close proximity to the parking garage and the service elevator in it.  If word was also passed down when Ruby arrived and parked with a nod or tip of a hat could have alerted Batchelor to walk to the elevator, go up one floor and be there to greet Ruby.  Getting there might not have taken 2-3 minutes.  Plus, likely Croy was guarding the elevator then also escorting them to the point where he and Ruby joined the crowd as Batchelor went on.  Croy is seen clearly in pictures by Ruby as he steps out to shoot Oswald.

Anyone really interested in this aspect should take the time to read this article and look at the pictures and diagrams.  If you don't buy the Harvey and Lee story, or even part of it, fine.  This is not about that.  

[Joe Bauer]

On 8/4/2024 at 9:11 PM, Kevin Balch said:

From what I recall, the Tippit killing didn’t get much attention in the interrogation. Oswald denied everything about it and I assume the Tippit murder charge was based on the lineup identification.

I just read Batchelor’s Warren Commission testimony and from what I can tell, he was in the basement during the time it is alleged he would have been escorting Ruby. He spent a lot of time arranging the use of an armored car from a private agency and getting the clearances in the garage measured to see if it would fit. When the driver arrived, he did not want to back the car down the ramp because of concern for the engine. So it was left at the top of the ramp. In the meantime, Batchelor was informed that the plan was changed to use the armored car as a decoy.

 Just from the few basement security activities described above...the entire Oswald transfer affair was a disaster. Outdoor guards distracted. Armored car problems. Stuck at the top of the ramp. Blocking cars below. Last minute change for the Armored car to just be a decoy. Basement area too crowded. Frantic, shouting, press allowed within just feet of Oswald.

Delays getting a police car backing down close enough to load Oswald.

Have you seen how crowded the scene was when the DPD car was backed right up to Oswald? Fritz himself was waving his arms trying to get the car into position.

That unplanned distraction helped create a security focus disruption opportunity for Ruby to jump in unstopped to blow Oswald's guts out.

Oswald faints, is dragged away, then when the PD car and Armored car above are finally pulled away, an ambulance finally gets down the ramp to get Oswald. Crazy!

How long did the internal bleeding dying Oswald have to wait, just to get placed in the ambulance?

The entire DPD basement security affair devolved into chaos! With the most important criminal suspect in American history lost forever.

Curry and Fritz, thanks to these two ignoring the most rational and common sense warning advice to not make a publicly announced daytime transfer of Oswald versus an unannounced nighttime one, we lost Oswald.

Those two guys made the final decisions as to the Oswald transfer plan.

They both should have been fired for it's absolutely worst case security failure results.

Edited August 7 by Joe Bauer

[Ron Bulman]

Batchelor could well have gone to meet Ruby and escort him in a very few minutes, IDK, 5-6-7-8?  Handing him off to Croy, Harrison and others.  That would have took planning.  A coordinated effort.  Which likely happened since Ruby did not walk down the ramp.  Vaughn, again, passed his lie detector test, Dean, operational head of security in the basement, creating his own questions, did not.  

The coordinated effort would have come from above, not the DPD.  Maybe the CIA?  They did have proven connections in Dallas, now known asset Mayor Earl Cabbell, brother of General Charles Cabbell JFK fired over the BOP.  Among others like area director J Walton Moore.  

The order likely came from the new president, silence the bastard.  Via?  Helms?  His old friend Dulles?  A call to somebody was all it took.  Then another or two 

Someone told Roselli, Civello/Campisi, Omerta.  Jack understood, heck he said it "my family".

[Pete Mellor]

At present busy working through the manuscript of Ian Griggs' work on the D.P.D. personnel employed over the 22nd-24th November '63 I have found this thread as some interest in relation to my editorial work.

Ian's manuscript contains an appendix that lists DPD officers on duty in the basement of City Hall on the 24th.  The list of 68 names was compiled by Cpt. Westbrook and submitted to Chief Curry on the 1st December '63.  I believe this list is in the W.C. Vol. 24 as CE2003.

Of the names mentioned in the posts above I find it strange that Asst. Chief Batchelor is not included in the list.

As for P.O. Alvin R. Brock the Griggs list of D.P.D. Officers states that he was in the City Hall basement guarding a lift until being re-assigned at 10:45 for traffic control duty at the junction of Elm & Ervay in preparation for the Oswald transfer.

The only name of Worley employed with the D.P.D. was a Roma Worley, she was a stenographer in personnel & typist for Westbrook.

I would be grateful for more information on 'Red' Davis.  The only Davis on the D.P.D. list is a Sgt Hugh F. Davis who is not listed in the Westbrook list.  Also a Glen D. Davies who was a Jail Guard.

There were 21 officers of the Police Reserve in and around the basement, all these were not included in Westbrook's list so no mention of Croy.

[Kevin Balch]

Off-topic, but I noted in the Harvey and Lee reference there was a display of the contents of Oswald’s wallet at the time of his arrest. I thought there was supposed to be a torn box top that was supposed to be used to confirm the identity of a clandestine contact. Where was this box top found?

Interesting article! It is quite possible to do basic thorough factual research even if you may not concur with the conclusions (which I have not reached yet with respect to the article).

[Joe Bauer]

Was Croy standing with the press crowd close to Ruby seconds before Ruby leaped out to shoot Oswald? If so...why? Wasn't this guy just a part-time DPD officer?

And also just feet ( actually inches! ) from Ruby ( and Croy ) at that time was DPD patrolman William Joseph "Blackie" Harrison. All 6 ft,4 inches 235 lbs. of him.

Curry later told the press only about 25 of his officers ( out of a 1,000 men force ) even knew Jack Ruby.

And of those 25, Big Blackie Harrison testified he was actually fairly well acquainted with Ruby. Having interacted with Ruby at his clubs many times for many years.

See Harrison's Warren Commission testimony below:

Mr. GRIFFIN. You do recognize Ruby by sight, do you not?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know Jack personally?
Mr. HARRISON. I knew him as a businessman as well by sight, and I have known him for 12 years, I guess, as a businessman.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you happen to meet Jack?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, I used to go into his place. I was a motorcycle officer, and we would go into these different places just checking, and he was running the Silver Spur, I think was the name of it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What bureau were you assigned to at that time?
Mr. HARRISON. I was in the traffic bureau.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that motorcycle patrol?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes; motorcycle patrol.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that downtown only?
Mr. HARRISON. No. We rode all over the city.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What particular business did you have in there?
Mr. HARRISON. Oh, we went in, we went into several places, maybe to get a cold drink, checking maybe to see if there was some drunks in there, just regular, routine checks more or less.
 

And here is big "Blackie" ( one of the closest police acquaintances of Jack Ruby on the entire DPD force ) just happening to be inches away from Ruby ( inches ) when he shot Oswald? 

Blackie didn't even notice Jack Ruby standing two feet away from him in the 20 seconds during Oswald's walk from the elevator to the press line and waiting police car that was going to take Oswald out of there?

And what was Blackie Harrison's security detail job right at that time and right in front of the Press crowd just feet from Oswald ... simple spectator?

It couldn't be to scan the press crowd during Oswald's close by walk to keep a lookout for anything suspicious in the crowd .... could it?

If, not what the heck was his security job right at that time?

Big Blackie Harrison was two seconds late in grabbing Ruby. 

A failed security detail effort.

Edited August 8 by Joe Bauer

[Ron Bulman]

16 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

At present busy working through the manuscript of Ian Griggs' work on the D.P.D. personnel employed over the 22nd-24th November '63 I have found this thread as some interest in relation to my editorial work.

Ian's manuscript contains an appendix that lists DPD officers on duty in the basement of City Hall on the 24th.  The list of 68 names was compiled by Cpt. Westbrook and submitted to Chief Curry on the 1st December '63.  I believe this list is in the W.C. Vol. 24 as CE2003.

Of the names mentioned in the posts above I find it strange that Asst. Chief Batchelor is not included in the list.

As for P.O. Alvin R. Brock the Griggs list of D.P.D. Officers states that he was in the City Hall basement guarding a lift until being re-assigned at 10:45 for traffic control duty at the junction of Elm & Ervay in preparation for the Oswald transfer.

The only name of Worley employed with the D.P.D. was a Roma Worley, she was a stenographer in personnel & typist for Westbrook.

I would be grateful for more information on 'Red' Davis.  The only Davis on the D.P.D. list is a Sgt Hugh F. Davis who is not listed in the Westbrook list.  Also a Glen D. Davies who was a Jail Guard.

There were 21 officers of the Police Reserve in and around the basement, all these were not included in Westbrook's list so no mention of Croy.

Hi Pete.  I re-checked the Garrison article and Red Davis is the name there used by Tatro.  I also pulled The Radical Right and the Murder of John F. Kennedy by Harrison Livingstone.  What Tatro said regarding him, Roy Vaughn's lawyer, Red Davis and Vaughn himself checks out the same in it.  

Then for grins I pulled No More Silence by Larry Sneed on the off chance he might have been mentioned and I didn't remember him.  Nope.  But I'd forgotten about the chapter on Roy Vaughn.

From page 450.  After his lie detector test.  'I got on the elevator, went to the basement and got off.  There apparently going upstairs, was Red Edwards, a detective.  He asked me, "Why in the world did you take the polygraph?"  He told him "Red, I didn't really have any choice, I knew I hadn't done it . . . ".

Pg. 451.  Vaughn also knew about the back entrance and the stairs, goes into detail about it and Western Union from it.  "It wouldn't have been a problem."  

Pg. 453.  "P.T. Dean had been my supervisor on my shift and had been in the basement all morning . . . . though never a social friend I knew him fairly well. and he knew Jack Ruby very well.  His name has been mentioned as the one who may have let Ruby in.  It wouldn't surprise me."

Hope that helps.  I guess we can dig around for a Red Edwards now.  I know Worley's on one of DJ's diagrams, I thought I'd read his name too elsewhere.