Earliest Parkland medical staff statements re: large head wound location

[Chris Bristow]

In Dr Baxter's written report from 11/22 he wrote the "Temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was laying on the table." He wrote in cursive but I think most agree he wrote "occipital". I recall Jeremy Gunn also mentioned Baxter's reference to the occipital in the ARRB depositions during the 4 Parkland doctors. 
 It is interesting that Baxter specifically said the "occipital bone was missing" as opposed to the more general occipital parietal area. Hard to see how a Neurosurgeon would mistake the occipital bone with the official wound location. 
 Dr Clark, was also a Neurosurgeon,  and placed the wound in the occipital parietal as well. Dr Grossman said in his Boston Globe interview that he stood right next to Dr Clark and watched him take JFK's head in his hands as he performed the brief but close up inspection of the wound. Clark declared the wound "Unsurvivable" and then instructed the staff to cease the resuscitation efforts. He made the weighty decision to give up on the president based on his opinion that the wound was mortal. JFK was already dead at that point but apparently once a patient is deemed to have a mortal wound resuscitation ends. I have heard it would be considered unethical, and obviously useless, to put a patient through the trauma of resuscitation if their wound is mortal. Hard to see how this Neurosurgeon could have made such an error regarding the location of the wound that was the basis of his decision to give up of the president.

 

Edited September 18 by Chris Bristow

[Denny Zartman]

1 hour ago, Chris Bristow said:

In Dr Baxter's written report from 11/22 he wrote the "Temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was laying on the table." He wrote in cursive but I think most agree he wrote "occipital". I recall Jeremy Gunn also mentioned Baxter's reference to the occipital in the ARRB depositions during the 4 Parkland doctors. 
 It is interesting that Baxter specifically said the "occipital bone was missing" as opposed to the more general occipital parietal area. Hard to see how a Neurosurgeon would mistake the occipital bone with the official wound location. 
 Dr Clark, was also a Neurosurgeon,  and placed the wound in the occipital parietal as well. Dr Grossman said in his Boston Globe interview that he stood right next to Dr Clark and watched him take JFK's head in his hands as he performed the brief but close up inspection of the wound. Clark declared the wound "Unsurvivable" and then instructed the staff to cease the resuscitation efforts. He made the weighty decision to give up on the president based on his opinion that the wound was mortal. JFK was already dead at that point but apparently once a patient is deemed to have a mortal wound resuscitation ends. I have heard it would be considered unethical, and obviously useless, to put a patient through the trauma of resuscitation if their wound is mortal. Hard to see how this Neurosurgeon could have made such an error regarding the location of the wound that was the basis of his decision to give up of the president.

Very interesting. I made the mistake of deferring to the Warren Report! Thanks for the catch and correction.

Warren Commission Hearings Volume 6, Pg 44 has testimony from Dr. Baxter where they had him read his handwritten statement for the record, precisely because his handwriting was hard to read. The published typewritten version in Volume 6 quotes Baxter as reading aloud "temporal and parietal." But it seems you are correct, and the handwritten original does seem to have the word "occipital" instead of "parietal."

[Keven Hofeling]

What's wrong with this picture?

 

According to Dr. David Mantik:

 

"...While at the National Archives, I performed stereo viewing of the autopsy photographs[8].

[8]. “Twenty Conclusions after Nine Visits” [to the Archives]: https://assassinationresearch.com/v2n2/pittsburgh.pdf

This is possible because each view is represented by two separate photographs, taken close together in time and space. Such a pair is what makes stereo viewing possible. I performed this procedure for the original generation of photographs (4” x 5” transparencies), for the color prints, and also for the black and white copies. I did this for many of the distinct views in the collection. But the bottom line is this: the only abnormal site was the back of the head—it always yielded a 2D image, as if each eye had viewed precisely the same image. Of course, that would have been expected if someone (illicitly in a dark room) had inserted the same image into that anatomic site for each member of the photographic pair. I discussed this issue with Robert Groden, who served as the photographic consultant for the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) during 1976-1979. He concurred with my observations, i.e., only the back of the head looked abnormal during his stereo viewing for the HSCA.

⁠ Although the large posterior hole is often cited as evidence for a frontal shot, a second issue, perhaps equally as important, should not be overlooked: the severe discrepancy between the photographs and the witnesses—all by itself— strongly suggests manipulation of this photograph. In other words, whoever altered this photograph likely recognized that the large posterior defect loudly proclaimed a frontal shot, so much so in fact, that it became critical to cover that hole.

⁠ Pathologist J. Boswell (many decades later) speculated that the scalp had merely been stretched so as to cover the hole. In fact, to have done so, and to have succeeded so seamlessly, would have defeated the sole purpose of the photographs, which presumably was to capture reality. If ever a photograph existed of this large defect, then that one has disappeared.

⁠ Some witnesses do recall seeing such a photograph immediately after the autopsy, and we know (from the autopsy photographer himself) that other autopsy photographs have disappeared. Furthermore, we know from Boswell’s sketch on a skull model, that the bone under this apparently intact scalp was in fact missing[9].

[9]. See photographs, in Figure 8B of my e-book, JFK’s Head Wounds, of this skull model (located at the Archives).

So which is more decisive: missing scalp—or missing bone?

Some have argued that the Parkland physicians have authenticated this photograph, and that we should therefore accept its authenticity. However, what they said was more like this: If the scalp had been stretched in this fashion, then they could not take issue with that photograph. Absent such a peculiar maneuver, however, they were dubious. Their doubt was further accentuated in a very recent documentary: “The Parkland Doctors”[10] [THIS WAS RETITLED TO "WHAT THE DOCTORS SAW," AND WAS RECENTLY RELEASED BY PARAMOUNT +].

[10]. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8phoyx⁠

Seven Parkland physicians met to discuss their recollections. They were profoundly troubled by autopsy images of the posterior scalp. To describe these images, they readily used words like “manipulated” and “altered.”..."

 

⁠ 'JFK ASSASSINATION PARADOXES: A PRIMER FOR BEGINNERS' Journal of Health Science & Education | David W. Mantik, MD

https://escires.com/articles/Health-1-126.pdf |Mantik DW (2018) JFK Assassination Paradoxes: A Primer for Beginners. J Health Sci Educ 2: 126. 

 

With regard to the earliest reports of the Parkland trauma team and support personnel (which constitute the testimony with the greatest probative value and evidentiary weight), something that is not very well known is that very meticulously detailed and comprehensive first and second day medical reports were made by the Parkland Hospital medical personnel who were involved in the resuscitation attempts on President Kennedy, and were initially classified "top secret," and then were published in Volume 20 of the Warren Commission's 26 volumes as "the Price Exhibits," which you can access via the following link: https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0087b.htm -- along with their "TOP SECRET" stamps.

These reports prove to a scientific certainty both that the Parkland physicians made no surgical incisons anywhere on JFK's head whatsoever, and that NONE of the Parkland medical personnel observed the damage we see on the top of JFK's head in the autopsy photographs, nor the huge, cavernous forehead wound that is depicted by the extant Zapruder film.

The obvious implication of these reports, of course, is that the huge, cavernous wound in JFK's forehead that we see in the following stills of the extant "original" Zapruder film -- which looks to me like it was calculated to appear to be about the size of a cantaloupe -- is entirely the product of what Dino Brugioni called "photographic fakery":

 

And one should note the Parkland Hospital first day Admission Notes for President Kennedy -- which have the greatest probative value and evidentiary weight out of all of the medical evidence -- that were filed by Drs. Kemp Clark, Charles Carrico, Malcolm Perry, Charles Baxter, Robert McClelland and Marion Jenkins immediately after their efforts to resuscitate President Kennedy on November 22, 1963: None of these reports support the existence of the frontal head wound depicted by the fraudulent Zapruder film imagery, and all but one of them reference the occipital-parietal wound in the right rear quadrant of the President's head, and report that cerebellar brain tissue was extruding from the wound:

COMMISSION EXHIBIT NO. 392: APPENDIX VIII - MEDICAL REPORTS FROM DOCTORS AT PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL, DALLAS, TEXAS: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/jfkinfo/app8.htm

Summary (By Dr. Kemp Clark)

The President arrived at the Emergency Room at 12:43 P. M., the 22nd of November, 1963. He was in the back seat of his limousine. Governor Connally of Texas was also in this car. The first physician to see the President was Dr. James Carrico, a Resident in General Surgery.

Dr. Carrico noted the President to have slow, agenal respiratory efforts. He could hear a heartbeat but found no pulse or blood pressure to be present. Two external wounds, one in the lower third of the anterior neck, the other in the occipital region of the skull, were noted. Through the head wound, blood and brain were extruding. Dr. Carrico inserted a cuffed endotracheal tube. While doing so, he noted a ragged wound of the trachea immediately below the larynx.

At this time, Dr. Malcolm Perry, Attending Surgeon, Dr. Charles Baxter, Attending Surgeon, and Dr. Ronald Jones, another Resident in General Surgery, arrived. Immediately thereafter, Dr. M. T. Jenkins, Director of the Department of Anesthesia, and Doctors Giesecke and Hunt, two other Staff Anesthesiologists, arrived. The endotracheal tube had been connected to a Bennett respirator to assist the President's breathing. An Anesthesia machine was substituted for this by Dr. Jenkins. Only 100% oxygen was administered.

A cutdown was performed in the right ankle, and a polyethylene catheter inserted in the vein. An infusion of lactated Ringer's solution was begun. Blood was drawn for type and crossmatch, but unmatched type "O" RH negative blood was immediately obtained and begun. Hydrocortisone 300 mgms was added to the intravenous fluids.

Dr. Robert McClelland, Attending Surgeon, arrived to help in the President's care. Doctors Perry, Baxter, and McClelland began a tracheostomy, as considerable quantities of blood were present from the President's oral pharynx. At this time, Dr. Paul Peters, Attending Urological Surgeon, and Dr. Kemp Clark, Director of Neurological Surgery arrived. Because of the lacerated trachea, anterior chest tubes were place in both pleural spaces. These were connected to sealed underwater drainage.

Neurological examination revealed the President's pupils to be widely dialted and fixed to light. His eyes were divergent, being deviated outward; a skew deviation from the horizontal was present. Not deep tendon reflexes or spontaneous movements were found.

There was a large wound in the right occipito-parietal region, from which profuse bleeding was occurring. 1500 cc. of blood were estimated on the drapes and floor of the Emergency Operating Room. There was considerable loss of scalp and bone tissue. Both cerebral and cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound.

Further examination was not possible as cardiac arrest occurred at this point. Closed chest cardiac massage was begun by Dr. Clark. A pulse palpable in both the carotid and femoral arteries was obtained. Dr. Perry relieved on the cardiac massage while a cardiotachioscope was connected. Dr. Fouad Bashour, Attending Physician, arrived as this was being connected. There was electrical silence of the President's heart.

President Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1300 hours by Dr. Clark

Kemp Clark, M. D.
Director
Service of Neurological Surgery
KC:aa

cc to Dean's Office, Southwestern Medical School
cc to Medical Records, Parkland Memorial Hospital

______________________________________________________________________________________

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

J. F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 11/22/63 1620 DOCTOR: Carrico

When patient entered Emergency room on ambulance carriage had slow agonal respiratory efforts and scant cardiac beats by auscultation. Two external wounds were noted. One small penetrating wound of ant. neck in lower 1/3. The other wound had avulsed the calvarium and shredded brain tissue present with profuse oozing. No pulse or blood pressure were present. Pupils were dilated and fixed. A cuffed endotracheal tube was inserted and through the laryngoscope a ragged wound of the trachea was seen immediately below the larynx. The tube was passed past the laceration and the cuff inflated. Respiration using the resp assistor on auto-matic were instituted. Concurrently an IV infusion of lactated Ringer solution was begun via catheter placed in right leg and blood was drawn for type and crossmatch. Type O Rh negative blood was obtained as well as hydrocortisone.

In view of tracheal injury and decreased BS an tracheostomy was performed by Dr. Perry and Bilat. chest tubes inserted. A 2^nd bld infusion was begun in left arm. In addition Dr. Jenkins began resp with anethesia machine, cardiac monitor, and stimulator attached. Solu cortef IV given (300mg), attempt to control slow oozing from cerebral and cerebellar tissue via packs instituted. Despite these measures as well as external cardiac massage, BP never returned and EKG evidence of cardiac activity was never obtained.

Charles J. Carrico M.D.

---

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

J. F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 DOCTOR: PERRY

Staff Note

At the time of initial examination, the pt. was noted as non-responsive. The eyes were deviated and the pupils were dilated. A considerable quantity of blood was noted on the patient, the carriage and the floor. A small wound was noted in the midline of the neck, in the lower third anteriorly. It was exuding blood slowly. A large wound of the right posterior cranium was noted, exposing severely lacerated brain. Brain tissue was noted in the blood at the head of the carriage.

Pulse or heartbeat were not detectable but slow spasmodic respiration was noted. An endotracheal tube was in place and respiration was being assisted. An intravenous infusion was being placed in the leg.

At this point I noted that respiration was ineffective and while additional venisections were done to administer fluids and blood, a tracheostomy was effected. A right lateral injury to the trachea was noted. The tracheostomy tube was put in place and the cuff inflated and respiration assisted. Closed chest cardiac massage was instituted after placement of sealed drainage chest tubes, but without benefit. Electrocardiographic evaluation revealed that no detectable electrical activity existed in the heart. Resuscitation attempts were abandoned after the team of physicians determined that the patient had expired.

Malcolm O. Perry, M.D.
1630 hr 22 Nov 1963

---

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR NOV 22, 1963 DOCTOR: BAXTER

Note of Attendance to President Kennedy.

I was contacted at approx 12:40 that the President was on the way to the emergency room having been shot. On arrival there, I found an endotracheal tube in place with assisted respirations, a left chest tube being inserted and cut downs going in one leg and in the left arm. The President had a wound in the mid-line of the neck. On first observation of the remaining wounds the rt temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was lying on the table, with .extensive lacerations and contusions. The pupils were fixed and deviated lateral and dilated. No pulse was detectable and respirations were (as noted) being supplied. A tracheotomy was performed by Dr. Perry and I and a chest tube inserted into the right chest (2^nd intercostal space anteriorally). Meanwhile, 2 pts of O neg blood were administered by pump without response. When all of these measures were complete, no heart beat could be detected. Close chest message was performed until a cardioscope could be attached which revealed no cardiac activity was obtained. Due to the excessive and irreparable brain damage which was lethal, no further attempt to resuscitate the heart was made.

Charles R. Baxter M.D.
Associate Prof of Surgery
Southwestern Medical School

---

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

JOHN F. KENNEDY

DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 DOCTOR: [KEMP CLARK]

12:20pm to 13:00 hrs

Called by EOR while standing in (illegible) Laboratory at SWMS. Told that the President had been shot. I arrived at the EOR at 1220 - 1225 and .The President was bleeding profusely from the back of the head. There was a large (3 x 3cm) amount of cerebral tissue present on the cart. There was a smaller amount of cerebellar tissue present also.

A tracheostomy was being performed by Drs. Perry, Baxter and McClelland. Exam of the President showed that an endotracheal tube was in place and respiratory assistance was being given by Dr. Akins and Jenkins. The pupils were dilated, fixed to light and his eyes were deviated outward and the right one downward as as well .

The trach was completed and I adjusted the endotracheal tube a little bit. Blood was present in the oral pharynx. Suction was used to remove this. Levine Catheter was passed into the stomach at this time.

He was (illegible) that I (illegible) no carotid pulse. I immediately began closed chest massage. A pulse was obtained at the carotid and femoral pulse levels.

Dr. Perry then took over the cardiac massage so I could evaluate the head wound.

There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region. Much of the skull appeared gone at brief examination . The previously described lacerated brain was present.

By this time an EKG was hooked up. There was no electrical activity of the heart and no respiratory effort - He was pronounced dead at 1300 hrs by me.

W. Kemp Clark
22 Nov 1963
1615 hrs -

---

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: Robert N. McClelland

Statement Regarding Assassination of President Kennedy

At approximately 12:45 PM on the above date I was called from the second floor of Parkland Hospital and went immediately to the Emergency Operating Room. When I arrived President Kennedy was being attended by Drs Malcolm Perry, Charles Baxter, James Carrico, and Ronald Jones. The President was at the time comatose from a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube and assisted respiration was started immediately by Dr. Carrico on Duty in the EOR when the President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and I then performed a tracheotomy for respiratory distress and tracheal injury and Dr. Jones and Paul Peters inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoracis secondary to the tracheomediastinal injury. Simultaneously Dr. Jones had started 3 cut-downs giving blood and fluids immediately, In spite of this, at 12:55 he was pronounced dead by Dr. Kemp Clark the neurosurgeon and professor of neurosurgery who arrived immediately after I did. The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple. He was pronounced dead after external cardiac message failed and ECG activity was gone.

Robert N. McClelland M.D.
Asst. Prof. of Surgery
Southwestern Med.
School of Univ of Tex.
Dallas, Texas

---

PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL

ADMISSION NOTE

DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: BASHOUR

Statement Regarding Assassination of the President of the U.S.A., President Kennedy.

At 12:50 PM, we were called from the 1st floor of Parkland Hospital and told that President Kennedy was shot. Dr. D ?? and myself went to the emergency room of Parkland. Upon examination, the President had no pulsation, no heartbeat, no blood pressure. The oscilloscope showed a complete standstill. The president was declared dead at 12:55 P.M.

F. Bashour M.D.
Associate Professor of Cardiology
Southwestern Medical School
Dallas, Texas.

---

THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS
SOUTHWESTERN MEDICAL SCHOOL
DALLAS

November 22, 1963
1630

To: Mr. C.J. Price, Administrator Parkland Memorial Hospital

From: M.T. Jenkins, M.D., Professor and Chairman Department of Anesthesiology

Subject: Statement concerning resusciative efforts for President John F. Kennedy

Upon receiving a stat alarm that this distinguished patient was being brought to the emergency room at Parkland Memorial Hospital, I dispatched Doctors A . H. Giesecke and Jackie H. Hunt with an anesthesia machine and resuscitative equipment to the major surgical emergency room area, and I ran down the stairs . On my arrival in the emergency operating room at approximately 1230 I found that Doctors Carrico and/or Delaney had begun resuscitative efforts by introducing an orotracheal tube, connecting it for controlled ventilation to a Bennett intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus . Doctors Charles Baxter, Malcolm Perry, and Robert McClelland arrived at the same time and began a tracheostomy and started the insertion of a right chest tube, since there was also obvious tracheal and chest damage . Doctors Paul Peters and Kemp Clark arrived simultaneously and immediately thereafter assisted respectively with the insertion of the right chest tube and with manual closed chest cardiac compression to assure circulation.

For better control of artificial ventilation, I exchanged the intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus for an anesthesia machine and continued artificial ventilation . Doctors Gene Akin and A . H. Giesecke assisted with the respiratory problems incident to changing from the orotracheal tube to a tracheostomy tube, and Doctors Hunt and Giesecke connected a cardioscope to determine cardiac activity.

During the progress of these activities, the emergency room cart was elevated at the feet in order to provide a Trendelenburg position, a venous cutdown was performed on the right saphenous vein, and additional fluids were begun in a vein in the left forearm while blood was ordered from the blood bank . All of these activities were completed by approximately 1245, at which time external cardiac massage was still being carried out effectively by Doctor Clark as judged by a palpable peripheral pulse. Despite these measures there was no electrocardiographic evidence of cardiac activity .

These described resuscitative activities were indicated as of first importance, and after they were carried out attention was turned to all other evidences of injury . There was a great laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital), causing a great defect in the skull plate so that there was herniation and laceration of great areas of the brain, even to the extent that the cerebellum had protruded from the wound. There were also fragmented sections of brain on the drapes of the emergency room cart . With the institution of adequate cardiac compression, there was a great flow of blood from the cranial cavity, indicating that there was much vascular damage as well as brain tissue damage .

It is my personal feeling that all methods of resuscitation were instituted expeditiously and efficiently . However, this cranial and intracranial damage was of such magnitude as to cause the irreversible damage . President Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1300 .

Sincerely,
/s/ M. T. Jenkins
M. T. Jenkins, M.D.

 

 

Edited August 11 by Keven Hofeling

[Greg Doudna]

Keven, thank you for your reply which was straightforward and responsive. I will think about what you presented.

[Paul Cummings]

Excellent work and thread!

[Robert Morrow]

On 8/10/2024 at 12:12 AM, Greg Doudna said:

Denny Zartman, Keven Hofeling, the following is an autopsy photo. I would like you to answer straightforwardly the following two questions.

1. Do you see a massive gigantic gaping head wound--missing skullbone--on JFK's head in this autopsy photo?

2. Do you think that is a valid photograph of the massive gaping wound on JFK's head?

Thank you for brief, succinct, responsive answers. Here, the photo:

https://archive.org/details/jfk-autopsy-photos-hd_202204/Back wound (B%26W 11 %26 12) (uncropped) (JFK Absolute Proof).jpg

Another good question to ask is: exactly who do those hands belong to? My guess is those hands belong to the morticians who were in charge of cleaning up and patching JFK's head back together. Looks like they did a good job! Now let's get to work on the right temple wound.

Just me GUESSING here.

[Robert Morrow]

From a JFK researcher on my email list:

QUOTE

Fab info once again.

Denny hasn’t picked up the statement of Nurse Audrey Bell, as quoted in Groden’s The Killing of a President (p87) “There was a massive wound at the back of the head.”

 Best regards

S

UNQUOTE

[Keven Hofeling]

1 hour ago, Robert Morrow said:

From a JFK researcher on my email list:

QUOTE

Fab info once again.

Denny hasn’t picked up the statement of Nurse Audrey Bell, as quoted in Groden’s The Killing of a President (p87) “There was a massive wound at the back of the head.”

 Best regards

S

UNQUOTE

@Denny Zartman:

We can date Audrey Bell's statement as to the existence of the "massive head wound" as early as 1967 (in stark contradiction to Pat Speer's claim that Audrey Bell inserted herself into the assassination literature in the 1980's at the behest of "buffs"):

A November 1967 paper authored by Bell herself, published in the journal of the Association of periOperative Registered Nurses, titled Forty-Eight Hours and Thirty-One Minutes, contains references to events supporting the representations Bell would make in the 1980's, such as referencing her proximity to Dr. Perry and the performance of the tracheotomy, as well as her observation of the "the massive head wound":     https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0001209208700474

"...I helped cut the President's shirt from his right arm, and positioned the tracheotomy tray for Dr. Perry.

It was then that I saw the massive head wound. Even though the prospect of surgery-after viewing the proportions of the wound and the general condition of the President-was improbable, I rushed off in search of a telephone to call the Operating Room...."

 

Edited August 12 by Keven Hofeling

[Denny Zartman]

@Robert Morrow @Keven Hofeling

I intentionally left Audrey Bell off the list. I personally have no objections to her. It's just that I've seen @Pat Speer pull this trick before: Someone else made a similar long list of back of the head witnesses, and Pat immediately used the inclusion of Bell as an excuse to ignore all of it. He thinks "old" memories are automatically unreliable as well, so I also made a concentrated effort to collect the earliest statements possible. I was being conservative with my estimation that there are no statements after 1965. I believe there are actually no statements made after 1964 on my list.

Of course, leaving Bell off this list didn't stop Pat from ignoring the implications of it again, which is not at all surprising. But now, I think we all can see for ourselves that, as best as I am able to determine, the only person who explicitly located the large wound as being at the top of the head was WC lawyer Arlen Specter - who had no medical experience and was not present at Parkland as JFK was brought in.

[Pat Speer]

24 minutes ago, Denny Zartman said:

@Robert Morrow @Keven Hofeling

I intentionally left Audrey Bell off the list. I personally have no objections to her. It's just that I've seen @Pat Speer pull this trick before: Someone else made a similar long list of back of the head witnesses, and Pat immediately used the inclusion of Bell as an excuse to ignore all of it. He thinks "old" memories are automatically unreliable as well, so I also made a concentrated effort to collect the earliest statements possible. I was being conservative with my estimation that there are no statements after 1965. I believe there are actually no statements made after 1964 on my list.

Of course, leaving Bell off this list didn't stop Pat from ignoring the implications of it again, which is not at all surprising. But now, I think we all can see for ourselves that, as best as I am able to determine, the only person who explicitly located the large wound as being at the top of the head was WC lawyer Arlen Specter - who had no medical experience and was not present at Parkland as JFK was brought in.

It is not trickery to separate the wheat from the chaff. Bell is a terrible witness. 

The reality: the best witnesses by far for the head wound at Parkland were the doctors primarily involved in his treatment.

The reality: the bulk of these witnesses lived long enough to become aware of Lifton's claims and theory, and UNIVERSALLY rejected them. 

The reality: a number of these witnesses later publicly admitted they were mistaken about seeing cerebellum...

The reality: many JFK buffs can't grasp that what they thought was a smoking gun--the initial statements of the Parkland witnesses--later collapsed into a puff of smoke--when the Parkland doctors universally denounced Lifton and/or said they thought the autopsy photos are authentic. 

These people say we should  accept the earliest statements of the Parkland witnesses, and reject all other evidence. But they are not consistent in this, as they routinely ignore McClelland's earliest statements and prop up what he said months later. 

 

[Chris Bristow]

21 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

Very interesting. I made the mistake of deferring to the Warren Report! Thanks for the catch and correction.

Warren Commission Hearings Volume 6, Pg 44 has testimony from Dr. Baxter where they had him read his handwritten statement for the record, precisely because his handwriting was hard to read. The published typewritten version in Volume 6 quotes Baxter as reading aloud "temporal and parietal." But it seems you are correct, and the handwritten original does seem to have the word "occipital" instead of "p'"arietal."

I think Baxter has stated that he was just mistaken when he wrote "occipital". I can't remember where I heard that. Looking at the way Baxter wrote the lowercase letters p and o it is undeniable that he wrote occipital not parietal. His p's have the distinct loop at the bottom. The word he wrote has no lower loop in the first letter but does have it in the 5th position as in occipital. It seems he knowingly misrepresented what he wrote under oath. Maybe some would claim he was just correcting the mistake he knew he made but he was asked to read the report, not edit it. 
Thank you for pointing out that he read the report in his testimony. I had long forgotten that and strained to decipher his cursive. 
My previous post may have been awkwardly stated. Clark did mention other aspects of JFK's condition, like the lack of a pulse, when he made the call to stop the resuscitation. But as I understand it when you have a mortal wound it does not matter what other conditions are present, the resuscitation ends. So even if they had established breath and circulation he would have died from the mortal wound.  
 
  

[Pat Speer]

7 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

I think Baxter has stated that he was just mistaken when he wrote "occipital". I can't remember where I heard that. Looking at the way Baxter wrote the lowercase letters p and o it is undeniable that he wrote occipital not parietal. His p's have the distinct loop at the bottom. The word he wrote has no lower loop in the first letter but does have it in the 5th position as in occipital. It seems he knowingly misrepresented what he wrote under oath. Maybe some would claim he was just correcting the mistake he knew he made but he was asked to read the report, not edit it. 
Thank you for pointing out that he read the report in his testimony. I had long forgotten that and strained to decipher his cursive. 
My previous post may have been awkwardly stated. Clark did mention other aspects of JFK's condition, like the lack of a pulse, when he made the call to stop the resuscitation. But as I understand it when you have a mortal wound it does not matter what other conditions are present, the resuscitation ends. So even if they had established breath and circulation he would have died from the mortal wound.  
 
  

Your observation about the wound's being mortal is important, IMO. ER doctors are not tasked with identifying the exact locations of wounds--they are tasked with saving the patient and to do that they must determine the extent of the wound--the extent, not necessarily the location. They were unanimous in their conclusion the wound was a fatal wound. Once they processed the wound in their minds as a fatal wound, the rest of it probably became a blur. 

[Andrej Stancak]

Thanks to Danny for assembling evidence on posterior head would in such a systematic manner, and to Kevin for further data and pictures. The posts like this make this Forum the best JFKA websites and have a more general importance beyond Internet community.

Greg Doudna raised a valid point by asking where is the posterior head wound in the occipital-parietal region in JFK autopsy pictures. As all can see, the one image showing the head from a back-front perspective shows no gaping wound in that region.

The only logical explanation is that this particula picture was manipulated. In my view, it was manipulated by a matte process which lead to placing an apparently-normal looking hair onto the missing scalp/bone region where only a hollow space and therefore black looking area would be seen on a photograph. By overlaying the picture of hair strip onto a black (hollow) area of the head an apparently realistic image of an intact posterior head was reached. However, every manipulation leaves a trace that eventually can be identified. It may have not been possible in the 60' or 70' but it is possible to identify the traces of original head wound using current photographic analysis methods.

I made an analysis of the critical autopsy picture and was, I hope, able to identify the remnants of the original black (hollow) area in that picture. My analysis fully confirms the posterior parietal-occipital head wound.

Here is my analysis of my analysis in full: 

 

[Denny Zartman]

On 8/12/2024 at 4:05 AM, Pat Speer said:

It is not trickery to separate the wheat from the chaff. Bell is a terrible witness.

It is trickery to use the inclusion of Bell on a list as an excuse to ignore all the other witnesses observations, as you did. Which is funny, because you don't need an excuse to ignore other witness observations. You're demonstrating that in this thread.

On 8/12/2024 at 4:05 AM, Pat Speer said:

The reality: a number of these witnesses later publicly admitted they were mistaken about seeing cerebellum...

I could have sworn you've said on this forum that you didn't rely on witnesses that changed their stories. As I recall you said this rather snidely. You used to chide other researchers for what I seem to remember as you characterizing it as "unfairly pestering old people." Now it seems you're happy to accept the testimony of old people who changed their stories. Imho, the only difference is now they're changing it to a story that you want to believe.

You're being inconsistent, Pat.

On 8/12/2024 at 4:05 AM, Pat Speer said:

The reality: many JFK buffs can't grasp that what they thought was a smoking gun--the initial statements of the Parkland witnesses--later collapsed into a puff of smoke--when the Parkland doctors universally denounced Lifton and/or said they thought the autopsy photos are authentic. 

Again, you used to say that you didn't rely on witnesses that changed their stories. Now you're changing your tune.

On 8/12/2024 at 4:05 AM, Pat Speer said:

These people say we should  accept the earliest statements of the Parkland witnesses, and reject all other evidence. But they are not consistent in this, as they routinely ignore McClelland's earliest statements and prop up what he said months later. 

So, to you, a recollection made months later is invalid, and recollections made years later hold weight. And recollections made the same day are mistakes, except for McClelland. It seems, rather than be consistent, you make your own decisions on who is trustworthy and who is reporting an observation in a timely manner based on the story you wish to believe.

Where's your citation for "McClellands earliest statements" that aren't on my list? I've already asked you for them. And, most importantly, do these earliest statements of McClelland say the large wound was at the top of the head? Because if they don't, it doesn't help your argument at all. It undercuts your argument.

You dismiss their earliest recollections and think they hallucinated seeing cerebellum. You think they hallucinated a large wound on the back of the head. And apparently you think they all also failed to see an obvious large wound on the top of the head.

In my view this is simply not a reasonable way to analyze witness statements of medical professionals. A significant number of them have testified, drawn pictures, and been photographed indicating with their hands, that the location of the large head wound was at the rear of the head. I'm going to be forced to request that you show me an equal or greater number of medical professionals at Parkland who instead said in their pre-1965 statements that they saw the wounds at the top of the head.

[Sandy Larsen]

On 8/14/2024 at 6:36 AM, Denny Zartman said:

And, most importantly, do these earliest statements of McClelland say the large wound was at the top of the head? Because if they don't, it doesn't help your argument at all.

 

Denny,

Dr. McClelland has always said that the gaping wound was on the back of the head.

Here is what happened regarding McClelland's earliest statement and how Pat mischaracterizes it for his own purposes:

In McClelland's very first written statement, dated 11/22/63, to the best of my recollection he wrote that Kennedy died from a gunshot wound to the left temple. In the same paragraph he wrote that the gunshot resulted in a massive wound.

Where did this "left temple" business come from? When the Parkland doctors were working on Kennedy, McClelland entered the room and asked where the gunshot wound was. Dr. Jenkins mistakenly told him it was in the left temple. Of course, he was talking about where the bullet hit the head, and that is how McClelland took it. (BTW Jenkins later denied his mistake, but it is well documented.)

So anyway, Pat Speer comes along and reads McClelland's 11/22/63 statement. All he sees is "massive wound" and "temple" and decides, oh so that is where McClelland saw the gaping wound. Never mind that McClelland specified the wrong temple.