Robert Morrow responds to Jefferson Morley who thinks Lyndon Johnson had no role in the JFK assassination

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, David McLean said:

Sorry Robert Morrow, but your monomania with LBJ, verges on a Lone Nut scenario, with no co-conspirators, only flunkies under LBJs control in a system LBJ with Hoovers help,  learned how  to manipulate. Assertions and the beliefs of the LBJ cohort have become facts, non sequitars, not amenable to nuance or adumbration.Don’t get me wrong…I admire your tenacity and care in substantiating sources. And the focus on LBJ as a factor in the assassintion of John,  but relevantly, not Robert Kennedy. So if LBJ was a killer of political enemies, he was not alone.

In October 1966, I was at the Manila Summit of Asian allies, a 21 year old with a Press pass. It was a hollow stage managed affair , a kind of photo opportunity, for the 1966 midterms that engaged but fooled no one.A year earlier about December 1965,  I had doorstopped Ed Clark at Adelaide Airport on his Ambassadorial fact-finding mission around the Outback.

By then, Degolyer and McNaughten, and Murchison’s Delhi already had control of Australia’s nascent natural gas resources, and Pine Gap was being negotiated and lied about.Texas and Texans truly had their tentacles Downunder. King Ranch was the country’s largest private landowner with 9 million acres. Connally personally had points in our first oil pipeline in Queensland.

But before them, Standard Oil of California and the Texas Company and Esso BHP had had for decades the bigger share of petrol exploration, refining and distribution.

Though I had long known of the Texans and their power to control and shape events, the JFKA was not on my radar until I read Peter Dale Scott’s essay in the Senator Gravel edition of the Pentagon Papers and received the Ellsberg defence team’s work up on Ambassador Marshall Green in about May 1973,  via Lenny Siegel at the Pacific Report and World Empire Telegram, for whom I had written about how Australia was a proxy for the US  in Indonesia.

Too cut this long and indulgent story short, it is my long considered belief that the assassination of the beloved President had more to do with JFKs approach to widespread crises in US power prognosis in the Far East over 1958-64 than the fortunes of a Texas Hill  country opportunist who would and did do the bidding of the others with a world to lose. 

 

David,

     I haven't read Greg Poulgrain's book about Dulles and JFK, but Monika Wiesak devoted a chapter in America's Last President to JFK and Indonesia.

     As I recall, Dulles and the Rockefellers were very interested in Indonesian natural resources, including gold.

    JFK was openly supportive of Sukarno, and Indonesian control of their own resources.

    But the CIA-backed Suharto coup, following JFK's murder, allowed extra-national capitalists to control Indonesian resources.

Edited September 8 by W. Niederhut

[Joe Bauer]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

David,

     I haven't read Greg Poulgrain's book about Dulles and JFK, but Monika Wiesak devoted a chapter in America's Last President to JFK and Indonesia.

     As I recall, Dulles and the Rockefellers were very interested in Indonesian natural resources, including gold.

    JFK was openly supportive of Sukarno, and Indonesian control of their own resources.

    But the CIA-backed Suharto coup, following JFK's murder, allowed extra-national capitalists to control Indonesian resources.

True.

[Robert Morrow]

9 hours ago, David McLean said:

Sorry Robert Morrow, but your monomania with LBJ, verges on a Lone Nut scenario, with no co-conspirators, only flunkies under LBJs control in a system LBJ with Hoovers help,  learned how  to manipulate. Assertions and the beliefs of the LBJ cohort have become facts, non sequitars, not amenable to nuance or adumbration.Don’t get me wrong…I admire your tenacity and care in substantiating sources. And the focus on LBJ as a factor in the assassintion of John,  but relevantly, not Robert Kennedy. So if LBJ was a killer of political enemies, he was not alone.

In October 1966, I was at the Manila Summit of Asian allies, a 21 year old with a Press pass. It was a hollow stage managed affair , a kind of photo opportunity, for the 1966 midterms that engaged but fooled no one.A year earlier about December 1965,  I had doorstopped Ed Clark at Adelaide Airport on his Ambassadorial fact-finding mission around the Outback.

By then, Degolyer and McNaughten, and Murchison’s Delhi already had control of Australia’s nascent natural gas resources, and Pine Gap was being negotiated and lied about.Texas and Texans truly had their tentacles Downunder. King Ranch was the country’s largest private landowner with 9 million acres. Connally personally had points in our first oil pipeline in Queensland.

But before them, Standard Oil of California and the Texas Company and Esso BHP had had for decades the bigger share of petrol exploration, refining and distribution.

Though I had long known of the Texans and their power to control and shape events, the JFKA was not on my radar until I read Peter Dale Scott’s essay in the Senator Gravel edition of the Pentagon Papers and received the Ellsberg defence team’s work up on Ambassador Marshall Green in about May 1973,  via Lenny Siegel at the Pacific Report and World Empire Telegram, for whom I had written about how Australia was a proxy for the US  in Indonesia.

Too cut this long and indulgent story short, it is my long considered belief that the assassination of the beloved President had more to do with JFKs approach to widespread crises in US power prognosis in the Far East over 1958-64 than the fortunes of a Texas Hill  country opportunist who would and did do the bidding of the others with a world to lose. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Guess what? I don't think Lyndon Johnson killed Robert Kennedy. I think a "lone nut" Sirhan Sirhan killed RFK. But if I had to pick one person who would want to kill Robert Kennedy, it would be LBJ.

2) Do you have any pictures of Ed Clark with David Rockefeller? I would like them for my files.

3) I am personal friends with Barr McClellan who is still alive in Gulfport, MS. I have had many conversations with McClellan since I first called him in 2008. Ed Clark told Barr McClellan that he was involved in the JFK assassination and was receiving a payoff for it. Other lawyers at Clark's law firm, including LBJ insider Don Thomas, told McClellan the same thing.

4) On 12/31/1963 LBJ told Madeleine Brown it was Dallas, TX oilmen and "renegade intelligence bastards" who killed JFK. Add in Ed Clark (close to Texas oil) and Gen. Edward Lansdale and I think you have a workable explanation for the JFK assassination. Notably, LBJ did not say it was "the Rockefellers" or Jock Whitney or the "Eastern elites" who killed JFK.

5) Ed Clark supported LBJ politically since 1937 when LBJ first ran for Congress and they were political (criminal) blood brothers. Clark feasted off of his relationship with LBJ and did not want Johnson to quit in 1968 - BECAUSE HE WAS MAKING MONEY OFF OF LBJ!

6) Quoting you "it is my long considered belief that the assassination of the beloved President had more to do with JFKs approach to widespread crises in US power prognosis in the Far East over 1958-64 than the fortunes of a Texas Hill  country opportunist who would and did do the bidding of the others with a world to lose. "

Moving past the realm of believing your theory, HOW ABOUT PROVING IT? Because I see a lot of "belief" and not a lot of "evidence" to back that theory up.

Not unimportantly, the Kennedys themselves did not say "Looks like JFK got killed over Vietnam, Indonesia natural resources or Texas investment interests in Australia" - they said amongst themselves quite clearly: LYNDON JOHNSON DID IT - the exact words and thoughts of Jackie Kennedy, Evelyn Lincoln, Kenny O'Donnell and Robert Kennedy in real time when JFK was killed. Decades later Ethel Kennedy told her hairdresser "We all thought LBJ did it."

The reason Robert Kennedy knew "LBJ Did It" and he could not tell anyone was that RFK had been leading the charge to utterly destroy LBJ in November, 1963. RFK knew what the score was but he did not have 61 years of JFK assassination research to completely confirm what he knew in his gut. Johnson knew all about and was highly agitated about the Kennedys "destroy LBJ" program.

A few other side points, Barr McClellan will tell you that Ed Clark was very close to the Murchison oil and gas interests; they were political allies. In Dallas there is a "DeGolyer" home that has been gifted, along with his estate, form the Dallas Arboretum, a very large and pretty park in the north Dallas area around White Rock Lake. https://www.dallasarboretum.org/visitor-information/gardens-and-pavilions/degolyer-gardens/

As for John Connally (not involved in the JFK assassination):

LBJ on John Connally: he could “leave more dead bodies in the field with less remorse than any politician I ever knew” 

https://www.history.com/news/the-other-victims-of-the-jfk-assassination

 QUOTE

 Born on a farm, John Connally earned both an undergraduate and law degree from the University of Texas prior to serving in the U.S. Navy during World War II. He got his political start as a legislative assistant to then-Representative Lyndon B. Johnson and later managed a number of LBJ’s campaigns, including his successful bid for the U.S. Senate in 1948. Connally could “leave more dead bodies in the field with less remorse than any politician I ever knew,” LBJ reportedly once said of his protege. Throughout most of the Eisenhower administration, Connally served as legal counsel to a wealthy oil magnate. He then worked for the Kennedy-Johnson ticket during the 1960 presidential campaign and became secretary of the Navy after their election. Less than a year later, he resigned in order to run for governor of Texas, which he won with 54 percent of the vote.

 UNQUOTE

 

 

[Robert Morrow]

There is not a SHRED of proof that the JFK assassination had ANYTHING to do with the topics discussed in Greg Poulgrain's JFK vs. Allen Dulles: Battleground Indonesia.

https://www.amazon.com/JFK-vs-Allen-Dulles-Battleground/dp/1510744797 And I am not saying this not a good book on its own merits, but thinking it is the key to unlocking the truth about the JFK assassination is an error.

[W. Niederhut]

14 minutes ago, Robert Morrow said:

There is not a SHRED of proof that the JFK assassination had ANYTHING to do with the topics discussed in Greg Poulgrain's JFK vs. Allen Dulles: Battleground Indonesia.

https://www.amazon.com/JFK-vs-Allen-Dulles-Battleground/dp/1510744797 And I am not saying this not a good book on its own merits, but thinking it is the key to unlocking the truth about the JFK assassination is an error.

Two things, Robert.

1) Sirhan didn't kill RFK.  Have you read A Lie Too Big to Fail?

2) There is ample circumstantial evidence that Allen Dulles was involved in the JFK assassination plot, and that a major motive for the murder had to do with JFK's foreign policy vision (and directives) relating to Cuba, Southeast Asia, Africa, Latin America, and the Cold War.

     Who orchestrated the 60-year mainstream media psy op covering up the JFK assassination plot?  LBJ?

     JFK's views about colonialism and the Third World were antithetical to the Dulles/Wall Street/CIA/WASP establishment.

     Dulles and his older brother were two Cold War kingpins, and they represented a lot of wealthy financiers with global investments. 

     Can't trust those damned Presbyterian Princetonians... 😬

 

Edited September 9 by W. Niederhut

[Robert Morrow]

17 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Two things, Robert.

1) Sirhan didn't kill RFK.  Have you read A Lie Too Big to Fail?

2) There is ample circumstantial evidence that Allen Dulles was involved in the JFK assassination plot, and that a major motive for the murder had to do with JFK's foreign policy vision (and directives) relating to Cuba, Southeast Asia, Africa, Latin America, and the Cold War.

     Who orchestrated the 60-year mainstream media psy op covering up the JFK assassination plot?  LBJ?

     JFK's views about colonialism and the Third World were antithetical to the Dulles/Wall Street/CIA/WASP establishment.

     Dulles and his older brother were two Cold War kingpins, and they represented a lot of wealthy financiers with global investments. 

     Can't trust those damned Presbyterian Princetonians... 😬

 

I will go with "associates of Allen Dulles" - Gen. Edward Lansdale, CIA David Atlee Phillips and perhaps others (Gen. Cabell?) worked hand in hand with Lyndon Johnson to kill JFK. In my take, Allen Dulles, like Hoover, becomes an immediate accessory-to-murder after-the-fact by COVERING UP the JFK assassination.

And "accessories to murder after the fact" go to jail as a murderer also in our criminal system.

Edited September 9 by Robert Morrow

[Kirk Gallaway]

3 hours ago, Robert Morrow said:

LYNDON JOHNSON DID IT - the exact words and thoughts of Jackie Kennedy, Evelyn Lincoln, Kenny O'Donnell and Robert Kennedy in real time when JFK was killed. Decades later Ethel Kennedy told her hairdresser "We all thought LBJ did it."

Robert , you might like this. Certainly to this day RK Jr. doesn't wade into the LBK did it! If all the elders thought one thing, their kids were kept completely out of it.

So what else is new?  And a good job they did! RK Jr. doesn't believe either his uncle or his Dad's death was a conspiracy until he's 50 years old! 

He has some interesting anecdotes, in an earlier segment he accounts how LBJ was very nice to him, as a youngster and use to give him gifts. He actually credits LBJ with sending RFK on trips  to Indonesia and Asia to get him out of his funk after his brother's death. He talks about the resentful relationship between his Father and Hoover.

But in the end. Most of his accounts of the JFK-LBJ, RFK-LBJ , are just more hearsay we could have picked up ourselves. But still interesting!

 

 

[Robert Morrow]

1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Robert , you might like this. Certainly to this day RK Jr. doesn't wade into the LBK did it! If all the elders thought one thing, their kids were kept completely out of it.

So what else is new?  And a good job they did! RK Jr. doesn't believe either his uncle or his Dad's death was a conspiracy until he's 50 years old! 

He has some interesting anecdotes, in an earlier segment he accounts how LBJ was very nice to him, as a youngster and use to give him gifts. He actually credits LBJ with sending RFK on trips  to Indonesia and Asia to get him out of his funk after his brother's death. He talks about the resentful relationship between his Father and Hoover.

But in the end. Most of his accounts of the JFK-LBJ, RFK-LBJ , are just more hearsay we could have picked up ourselves. But still interesting!

 

 

Kirk, remember, I am a ninja on this topic.

1) 

Arthur Schlesinger on Robert Kennedy being convinced at one point that Lyndon Johnson had murdered John Kennedy

 "We tried to perpetuate the myth by convincing ourselves that we were good and that LBJ was evil. I remember one time Bobby telling me he was convinced that Lyndon was behind his brother's death. 'Come on Bob. Get real.' I said. His other theory had it that Richard Nixon and Howard Hughes were somehow involved. He hated them both. 'Nixon's a true slimebucket,' he said. 'And I should have investigated Hughes years ago.'"

 [C. David Heymann, RFK, p. 365]

2) 

Robert Kennedy, Jr. on how Lyndon Johnson was presented as a nemesis to the Kennedy family when he was a kid

 QUOTE

 “Lyndon Johnson was rather a nemesis to the family while we were growing up,” reminisced Bobby, Jr. “In retrospect, he was one of the best presidents we ever had, but during the heat of battle, the kids all regarded him as some kind of ogre.”

 UNQUOTE

 [David Heyman, RFK, p. 367]

 Robert Kennedy, Jr.: “My father told me when I was a child, ‘people in authority lie.’ People in authority will abuse every power that we relinquish to them, and right now we are giving them the power to micromanage every bit of our lives.”

 President Lyndon Johnson was holding power when RFK said that.

 

https://archive.org/details/2021-aug-28-robert-f-kennedy-jr-my-father-told-me-when-i-was-a-child

 

AUGUST 28, 2020, ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR. HOLDS A PRESS CONFERENCE IN BERLIN AFTER LAUNCHING CHD’S EUROPE CHAPTER

Robert Kennedy, Jr: 'People in Authority Lie"

On Friday, August 28, Robert Kennedy, Jr. spoke at a press conference in Berlin, Germany announcing the expansion of Children's Health Defense to Europe.

Kennedy's words made it clear these are truly desperate times and no one can just sit back, and hope things get better on their own. Very powerful forces have an agenda, and that agenda will affect the freedom of all of us. It's time to listen to Kennedy and to act

Transcript of clip

My father told me when I was a child, “People in authority lie.” If we are going to continue to live in a democracy, we need to understand that people in authority lie. People in authority will abuse every power that we relinquish to them, and right now we are giving them the power to micromanage every bit of our lives.

Twenty-four hours a day they’re going to know where we are, they’re going to know the money that we spend, they’re going to have access to our children. They’re going to have the right to compel unwanted medical interventions on us.

3) Thirdly, I should point out that RFK, Jr. who likes to fancy his uncle was murdered because of JFK's move to peace, has never mentioned the material below:

Mere days before the JFK assassination Robert Kennedy’s friends gave him for his 38^th birthday a VOODOO DOLL of Lyndon Johnson with pins in it - https://robertmorrowpoliticalresearchblog.blogspot.com/2023/05/mere-days-before-jfk-assassination.html

LBJ top aide Horace Busby strongly implies that Lyndon Johnson was acutely aware by Nov. 4, 1963 that the Kennedys had sent a SWAT team of over **FORTY** national reporters to Texas to utterly destroy him  https://robertmorrowpoliticalresearchblog.blogspot.com/2020/07/lyndon-johnson-was-acutely-aware-by-nov.html  I wonder how LBJ would have reacted?

Burkett van Kirk (GOP Senate Rules Committee counsel) and James Wagenvoord (Life Magazine assistant editor) prove the Kennedys were out to destroy LBJ in November of 1963 http://robertmorrowpoliticalresearchblog.blogspot.com/2021/08/senate-counsel-burkett-van-kirk-and.html

National Review’s Phil Brennan knew in real time all about the Kennedys’ ongoing plan to destroy LBJ with the media in fall of 1963: https://www.newsmax.com/Pre-2008/Some-Relevant-Facts-About/2003/11/18/id/677423/

Election Night 11/8/60 – VP-Elect Lyndon Johnson was the most UNHAPPY man that reporter Margaret Mayer had ever seen https://robertmorrowpoliticalresearchblog.blogspot.com/2024/08/election-night-1181960-lyndon-johnson.html

The Precise Time and Location that the Planning of the JFK Assassination began – July 13, 1960, Los Angeles https://robertmorrowpoliticalresearchblog.blogspot.com/2024/05/the-precise-time-and-location-that.html

 

Edited September 9 by Robert Morrow

[Robert Morrow]

Robert Kennedy, Sr. speech (8/27/64) at 1964 Democratic convention in Atlantic City. American Rhetoric: Robert F. Kennedy - 1964 Democratic National Convention Address

Jackie Kennedy helped Robert Kennedy with this speech - and YES they were referring to LBJ as the "garish sun." And Johnson easily figured this out.

Mr. Chairman, I wish to speak just for a few moments.

I first want to thank all of you, the delegates to the Democratic National Convention and the supporters of the Democratic Party, for all that you did for President John F. Kennedy.

I want to -- I want to -- I want to express my appreciation to you for the effort that you made on his behalf at the convention four years ago, the efforts that you made on his behalf for his election in November of 1960, and perhaps most importantly, the encouragement and the strength that you gave him after he was elected President of the United States.

I know that it was a source of the greatest strength to him to know that there were thousands of people all over the United States who were together with him, dedicated to certain principles and to certain ideals.

No matter what talent an individual possesses, no matter what energy he might have, no matter what -- how much integrity and honesty he might have, if he is by himself, and particularly a political figure, he can accomplish very little. But if he's  sustained, as President Kennedy was, by the Democratic Party all over the United States, dedicated to the same things that he was attempting to accomplish, you  can accomplish a great deal.

No one knew that really more than President John F. Kennedy. He used to take great pride in telling the trip that Thomas Jefferson and James Madison made up the Hudson River in 1800 on a botanical expedition searching for butterflies; that they ended up down in New York City and that they formed the Democratic Party.

He took great pride in the fact that the Democratic Party was the oldest political Party in the world, and he knew that this linkage of Madison and Jefferson with the leaders in New York combined the North and South, and combined the industrial areas of the country with the rural farms -- that this combination was always dedicated to progress.

All of our Presidents have been dedicated to progress: with Thomas Jefferson in the Louisiana Purchase, and when Thomas Jefferson also realized that the United States could not remain on the Eastern Seaboard and sent Lewis and Clark to the West Coast; of Andrew Jackson; of Woodrow Wilson; for Franklin Roosevelt who saved our citizens who were in great despair because of the financial crisis; of Harry Truman who not only spoke but acted for freedom.

So that when he [John F. Kennedy] became President he not only had his own principles or his own ideals but he had the strength of the Democratic Party. So that when he President he wanted to do something for the mentally ill and the mentally retarded; for those who were not covered by Social Security; for those who were not receiving an adequate minimum wage; for those who did not have adequate housing; for our elderly people who had difficulty paying their medical bills; for our fellow citizens who are not white who had difficulty living in this society. To all this he dedicated himself.

But he realized also that in order for us to make progress here at home, that we had to be strong overseas, that our military strength had to be strong. He said one time, "Only when our arms are sufficient, without doubt, can we be certain" of doubt -- "without doubt, that they will never have to be employed."¹ And so when we had the crisis with the Soviet Union and the Communist Bloc in October of 1962, the Soviet Union withdrew their missiles and the bombers from Cuba.

But even beyond that, his idea really was that this country should -- and this world, really, should be a better place when we turned it over to the next generation than when we inherited it from the last generation. And that's why -- And that's why with all of the other efforts that he made -- with the Test Ban Treaty, which was done with Averell Harriman, was so important to him.

And that's why he made such an effort -- And that's why he made such an effort and so was committed to the young people not only of the United States but the young people of the world.

And in all of these efforts you were there -- all of you. And when there were difficulties, you sustained him. When there were periods of crisis, you stood beside him. When there were periods of happiness, you laughed with him. And when there [were] periods of sorrow, you comforted him.

I realize that as an individual that we can't just look back, that we must look forward. When I think of President Kennedy, I think of what Shakespeare said in Romeo and Juliet:

When he shall die take him and cut him out into the stars and he shall make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love with night and pay no worship to the garish sun.

And I realize as an individual and really -- I realize that as an individual even more importantly, for our political Party and for the country, that we can't just look to the past, but we must look to the future.

And so I join with you in realizing that what has been started four years ago -- what everyone here started four years ago -- that that's to be sustained; that that's to be continued.

The same effort and the same energy and the same dedication that was given to President John F. Kennedy must be given to President Lyndon Johnson and Hubert Humphrey. If we make that commitment, it will not only be for the benefit of the Democratic Party, but far more importantly, it will be for the benefit of this whole country.

When we look at this film we might think that President Kennedy once said that:

We have the capacity to make this the best generation in the history of mankind, or make it the last.²

If we do our duty, if we meet our responsibilities and our obligations, not just as Democrats, but as American citizens in our local cities and towns and farms and our states and in the country as a whole, then this country is going to be the best generation in the history of mankind.

And I think that if we dedicate ourselves, as he frequently did to all of you when he spoke, when he quoted from Robert Frost -- and said it applied to himself--but that we could really apply to the Democratic Party and to all of us as individuals -- that:

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep, and miles to go before I sleep.

Mrs. Kennedy has asked that this film be dedicated to all of you and to all the others throughout the country who helped make John F. Kennedy President of the United States.

I thank you.

 

Edited September 9 by Robert Morrow

[David McLean]

Thanks to All for engaging on this without the rancour so common today.

First as to proof of what might be called the Far East Hypothesis, some data points-

1.aJohn Foster Dulles at Geneva in 1953/54 refused to even shake hands with Chou EnLai, though Chou had enabled cease fire and treaty agreements in Korea and Vietnam, saving face for the US, postponing denouement for later, still pending in Korea; 

2.In response, Allen Dulles in 1955 blew up the plane Chou En Lai was to fly to the Bandung Non-Aligned conference and then funded the 1957-58 Permesta or Outer Islands rebellion against Sukarno, an utter failure but which left the Indonesian  army waiting for the kill; 

3.In 1960, student protests in Japan prevented Eisenhower from visiting to renew the 10year US bases agreement with an unarmed Japan; soon after, the leader of a resurgent pro China Socialist Partywas assassinated on a live TV election Speech; 

4.In 1961South Korea student unrest forced the US to encourage the overthrow of Syngman Rhee by Chung Hee Park, who was told by General Magruder he would be killed if he approached North Korea;

5.In Laos, factional civil war  erupted, and JFK with Harriman backed a tri-partite arrangement with Russian backing, but sabotaged from the start by the CIA and its Lao allies;  meanwhile Vietnam was unravelling and Diem had to go; 

6.In Indonesia, Russia backed the Navy, China was radicalising the PKI…Kennedy had it in mind to offer massive aid and political support to wean  Indonesia away from the Communists,including a visit in 1964…a gamble no doubt, with severe consequences; 

In short, American power in the East was weak and fast diminishing, with no prospect of reversal. Even Kennedys inner circle (Harriman, the Bundys, etc) were at odds with Kennedy. And the CIA and Joint Chiefs were apoplectic.

It is my firm belief, strategic military authorities warned the Joint Chiefs and NSC that US power in Asia was untenable and nuclear confrontation inevitable in the foreseeable future.

If massive force were to be applied in Vietnam, the tide would turn. And that is exactly what transpired. With JFK out of the way, LBJ gave them”their God Damned war”, with Kennedys men leading the charge; 

Look it is not proof, but to my mind is the only rational explanation of why the US officials embarked  on a war they knew the could not win, but would forestall imminent loss of Indonesia and Japan.

Footnote: The Rockefellers were always in favour of rapprochement with the USSR and PRC but only on US terms from a”position of strength”, basically achieved through Nixon and Kissinger.

Thats it, thanks for listening…

Edited September 9 by David McLean
Clarification

[David McLean]

It would fundamental to this hypothesis to know when and if in 1963 Kennedy actually set a date for his Indonesian visit the following year.

Also note that formulating this into a plan of action would be tantamount to planning the crime of a war of aggression, hence I suspect there to be little documentation apart from the fragments of OpPlan34A.

[Ron Bulman]

On 9/8/2024 at 1:15 PM, W. Niederhut said:

David,

     I haven't read Greg Poulgrain's book about Dulles and JFK, but Monika Wiesak devoted a chapter in America's Last President to JFK and Indonesia.

     As I recall, Dulles and the Rockefellers were very interested in Indonesian natural resources, including gold.

    JFK was openly supportive of Sukarno, and Indonesian control of their own resources.

    But the CIA-backed Suharto coup, following JFK's murder, allowed extra-national capitalists to control Indonesian resources.

Poulgrain's  book is very important.  It reveals Dulles suppression of the discovery of the 1936 Ertsberg world's most extensive gold field, on an inaccessible mountain on behalf of the Rockefeller's and associates until it could be developed with modern technology without Dutch involvement in the early 1970's, after his death.  The same thing with his getting George DE Mohrenschildt out of the US after the Vichy France - Texas oil to the Germans scandal in 1941.  To Netherlands New Guinea where he discovered the worlds greatest oil well.  The lightest, sweetest crude ever found (no refinement necessary) producing 26,000 barrels a day.  Also suppressed into the 1960's, after NNG was gone.

This is what connects Dulles to the Rockefellers.  I still debate in my own mind whether the JFK assassination would have occurred without the blessing of David Rockefeller and a very few others at the Council on Foreign Relations.  Heck he in a sense bragged about it in a later interview.

[Robert Morrow]

2 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Poulgrain's  book is very important.  It reveals Dulles suppression of the discovery of the 1936 Ertsberg world's most extensive gold field, on an inaccessible mountain on behalf of the Rockefeller's and associates until it could be developed with modern technology without Dutch involvement in the early 1970's, after his death.  The same thing with his getting George DE Mohrenschildt out of the US after the Vichy France - Texas oil to the Germans scandal in 1941.  To Netherlands New Guinea where he discovered the worlds greatest oil well.  The lightest, sweetest crude ever found (no refinement necessary) producing 26,000 barrels a day.  Also suppressed into the 1960's, after NNG was gone.

This is what connects Dulles to the Rockefellers.  I still debate in my own mind whether the JFK assassination would have occurred without the blessing of David Rockefeller and a very few others at the Council on Foreign Relations.  Heck he in a sense bragged about it in a later interview.

Let's be specific here. What exactly did David Rockefeller brag about in an interview? I seriously doubt it was anything having to do with the JFK assassination.

It is rumored that David Rockefeller said this in 1991 Baden Baden Germany Bilderberg conference: https://www.amazon.com/review/R3RK5QBX58AC73

Book reviewer E. Larsen:

QUOTE

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."

Whether or not he actually said this publicly, it does seem to capture the thinking of someone who makes the kind of decisions Rockefeller does. In his memoir on page 405, he actually does say this, "Some even believe we (the Rockefeller family) are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure---one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.".
In this section he also criticizes "populists" and "isolationists" for not appreciating that the "active role" the international bankers have played in world affairs has contributed to economic growth and the defeat of Communism.

UNQUOTE

 

 

 

[David McLean]

Ron, my thinking as well,  with a couple  anecdotes…

1 .a friend/customer at the bookshop we run had been at  DARPA/JPL on high security clearances and later worked for the Rockefeller Brothers Fund and claimed knowledge of the family. When asked about David R in regard to the JFKA, he pointedly said he David R was too prissy, precise or bankerly to be involved in assassination. When I replied, well who then, he simply said”The Republicans”, and that is as far as he would go.

Robert, the photo of David R and Ed Clark is in the Australian American association periodical from the early 1960s which I once owned. Not sure if its is still in my possession but would be in an archival library.

2.Fast forward to 2005, while in Washington DC a friend and I spent time with a senior partner at Akin Gump Strauss et al. Talking politics and the Kennedy assassination, he posed a koan for me: Who was Thomas Dewey’s running mate in 1948? I did not know but thought of the only West Coast Republican I could think of was California governor Earl Warren. A lucky guess and to my mind a telling Q and A, given Dulles’s  involvement with both the  Dewey campaign and the Warren Commission. The lawyer’s next remark still in context had to do with Nelson  Rockefeller dying “on the job” with a secretary after hours. He was also scathing about unstated  business involving the firms Texas office. 
End of Story

Edited September 10 by David McLean
Typos

[Ron Bulman]

From David Rockefeller, Memoirs.  Published October 28, 2003.  "Almost 40 years" . . . = 1963.  "Guilty as charged."

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years......It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supernational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries."
― David Rockefeller

"For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."
― David Rockefeller