Trump assassination attempt TAKE TWO discussion

[Paul Rigby]

1 hour ago, Karl Kinaski said:

Niederhut quoting Allan Dulles as his trusted source when it comes to assassinations and political murder.  

Risible, isn't it?

Were such as Guiteau, Czolgosz and Zangara really the lone-nuts of popular myth? 

The Walsall Anarchists were a group of anarchists arrested on explosive charges in Walsall, present-day West Midlands, England in 1892.^[1]

Recent research into police files has revealed that the bombings were instigated by Auguste Coulon, an agent provocateur of Special Branch Inspector William Melville, who would go on to become an early official of what became MI5.^[2]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walsall_Anarchists}

 

Edited September 20 by Paul Rigby
Thick fingered typing

[Karl Kinaski]

17 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said:

Rep. Matt Gaetz on X. 

12h

A senior Homeland Security official told me there are at least FIVE known assassination teams in our country targeting President Trump! Requests for President Trump to have additional security went UNANSWERED and some people were even taken off of his Secret Service detail! It may be time to consider private augmentation of President Trump’s security team so we can keep him safe.

The TRUMPUTIN DERANGEMENT SYNDROM PEOPLE are demon-possessed. 

[W. Niederhut]

4 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said:

Niederhut quoting Allan Dulles as his trusted source when it comes to assassinations and political murder.  

Get a clue, Karl.

You and Rigby, obviously, missed the point again.

And, incidentally, I have posted on several occasions about Allen Dulles's history of manipulating the Warren Commission to deny the fact that JFK's Deep State assassination plot was the "exception" to the rule."

Do you know what "exception to the rule" means in English?

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for Paul Rigby to explain how the Crooks and Routh assassination attempts (or any attempts besides the JFKA and RFKA) were Deep State plots.

Do Rigby and Kinaski think that Crooks and Routh were patsies?

Contract CIA assassins?

Edited September 20 by W. Niederhut

[John Cotter]

“Deep state” operations are by definition covert operations. Accordingly, ordinary non-deep state people are not privy to how those operations are carried out.

However, any reasonably intelligent objective person can deduce from available evidence that there was deep state involvement in a particular operation, and there has been more than enough such evidence regarding the Trump assassination attempts presented in this forum.

[Cliff Varnell]

23 hours ago, John Cotter said:

“Deep state” operations are by definition covert operations. Accordingly, ordinary non-deep state people are not privy to how those operations are carried out.

However, any reasonably intelligent objective person can deduce from available evidence that there was deep state involvement in a particular operation, and there has been more than enough such evidence regarding the Trump assassination attempts presented in this forum.

The results don't speak of a covert operation.

[John Cotter]

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

The results don't speak of a covert operation.

The insanity and dysfunctionality of contemporary western governments and their emanations would suggest otherwise. 

Edited September 21 by John Cotter

[Cliff Varnell]

19 hours ago, John Cotter said:

The insanity and dysfunctionality of contemporary western governments and their emanations would suggest otherwise. 

The assassinations of JFK/RFK/MLK et al were the result of "insanity and disfunctionality" on the operations level?

[Pamela Brown]

It may be that Pres. Trump is a target of a Murder Most Foul...

It may be that Bob Dylan is alluding to this in his "Key" song Key West, with the inferences about McKinley...

https://www.bobdylan.com/songs/key-west-philosopher-pirate/

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

It may be that Pres. Trump is a target of a Murder Most Foul...

It may be that Bob Dylan is alluding to this in his "Key" song Key West, with the inferences about McKinley...

https://www.bobdylan.com/songs/key-west-philosopher-pirate/

MAGA SYLLOGISM-OF-THE-MONTH

(The fallacy of overgeneralization)

 

The Deep State assassinated U.S. President John F. Kennedy.

Donald J. Trump was a U.S. President.

Therefore, the Deep State attempted to assassinate Donald J. Trump.

Edited September 22 by W. Niederhut

[Paul Rigby]

 

[Paul Rigby]

The Roots of the Trump Assassination Attempts

It is only by luck that the former president is still alive.

Peter Van Buren

Sep 23, 2024

12:05 AM

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-roots-of-the-trump-assassination-attempts/

In many Third-World countries, falling out of power means being declared an enemy of the people who needs to be done away. In some situations that means trumped-up charges and made-up evidence—lawfare—to mislabel the fallen leader as evil and justify the life sentence he receives. In other situations, jail is not secure enough, such as when the fallen leader still has many supporters. That means he must be killed.

The murder can be a well-planned assassination, an “accident” or true up-against-the-wall execution. It’s all necessary for the greater good, especially if the nation wants to claim higher goals at work—for example, saving itself from a worse fate, like loss of “democracy.” Dictators in power are democracy advocates, and dictators out of power are fascists, infidels, and enemies of the people.

Donald Trump is an enemy of democracy itself, says the left in writing and from the debate stage. It is then not surprising when people, often mentally ill enough to accept the base argument that someone who served four years as president, who defeated multiple impeachment attempts without resorting to tanks on the Capitol lawn, and who has run via the electoral system for president three times, is not a believer in democracy.

Would-be killers have seen lawfare fail. Of course it did; it was based on in one instance the manipulation of the justice system to transform a payoff to a porn star as part of a legal nondisclosure agreement from a simple misdemeanor (if that) into 34 separate felonies. In another instance, the lawfare was so weak an attempt on the candidate that a single woman’s vague testimony from decades earlier was enough to convict him and fine him enough to bring him near bankruptcy—all enabled by a Covid-era legal device revitalizing charges long past their statute of limitations.

In other instances, the lawfare was too thin to even hurt. Trump once faced 91 charges in four jurisdictions. Now he faces 12. He’s been convicted on the 34 noted above and seen 45 charges dismissed. The remaining charges face their own challenges after the Supreme Court determined in July that Trump has broad immunity from prosecution for actions undertaken while in office. As in most Third-World countries, the lawfare was executed by clumsy but politically loyal amateurs, relying on home-turf advantage to overcome their weak cases. And speaking of democracy, lawfare to date has also been defeated (convictions alone don't matter when the goal is political destruction) by some judges still willing to uphold the ideals of a fair system and dismiss unfair charges.

With lawfare essentially failing off the table, it is time to demonize Trump to create a manifesto for the mentally ill American who will carry out the grim final round.

The New Republic has duly warned us that “Donald Trump is warning that 2024 could be America’s last election”—if Trump wins, American democracy is over. “If we don’t win on November 5, I think our country is going to cease to exist. It could be the last election we ever have,” Trump himself said, and he would never joke or exaggerate, right?

In another number from the New Republic, a writer concluded,

The election cycle either ends in chaos and violence, balkanization, or a descent into a modern theocratic fascist dystopia. Trump will... use every means available to achieve an America with no immigrants, no trans people, no Muslims, no abortion, no birth control, Russian-style “Don’t Say Gay laws,” license to discriminate based on religion, and all government education funding going to religious schools. Blue states will try to resist this and invoke the same states’ rights and “dual sovereignty” arguments, but it’s unlikely they will succeed due to conservative bias on the Supreme Court and the Trump administration’s willingness to blow off court rulings it doesn’t like. If Trump goes straight to a massacre via the Insurrection Act, civil war is on the table.

“Putin does what [Trump] would like to do,” Hillary Clinton has said. “Kill his opposition, imprison his opposition, drive journalists into exile, rule without any check or balance. That’s what Trump really wants.”

In short, says the Washington Post, “a Trump dictatorship is increasingly inevitable. We should stop pretending.”

And what politics of fear round-up would be complete without Trump’s misquoted out-of-context “Now if I don’t get elected, it’s gonna be a bloodbath for the whole—that’s gonna be the least of it. It’s going to be a bloodbath for the country”? Somewhere after that comes a mention from the left of how our system of bypassing the popular vote in favor of the Electoral College is undemocratic even if it has resulted in a democracy each and every time it has been used since the Founders created it. There are a lot of grievances, triggers, and dog-whistles to hit.

An element of “Trump is Hitler” has always been missing, Trump’s own version of Mein Kampf. Hitler was famous for writing (from prison) exactly what he planned to do once he gained power. Now there is Project 2025, a document disavowed numerous times by Trump that pundits from the left (and the Democratic candidate herself) nevertheless claim is Trump’s nefarious blueprint for a second term. Trump’s team did not write Project 2025, and he has not cited it in his speeches, but it is stuck to him by the Left like tar.

And as a call to arms, Larry Diamond, a senior fellow at Stanford’s Hoover Institution, said that democracies, with their strong protections for civil liberties and the rule of law, don’t drop dead of a heart attack. Instead, they die slowly, incrementally, poisoned at the roots by the fear and anger instilled by demagogues—like Trump. Adam Kinzinger wrote on X, “MAGA pretending they didn’t light this fire is gaslighting to the 100th power.” For those who need more intellectual backup to calling for murder, welcome Jonathan Chait, who wrote, “Donald Trump Is a Threat to Democracy, and Saying So Is Not Incitement.”

It’s OK, they seem to say, because Trump asked for it. "He’s worth killing" is the broader message. “I believe that more Americans have to be willing to endure what frankly is discomforting and to some extent kind of painful, to take him at his word and to be outraged by what he represents,” said Hillary Clinton. “We can’t go back and give this very dangerous man another chance to do harm to our country and the world.”

n many Third-World countries, falling out of power means being declared an enemy of the people who needs to be done away. In some situations that means trumped-up charges and made-up evidence—lawfare—to mislabel the fallen leader as evil and justify the life sentence he receives. In other situations, jail is not secure enough, such as when the fallen leader still has many supporters. That means he must be killed.

The murder can be a well-planned assassination, an “accident” or true up-against-the-wall execution. It’s all necessary for the greater good, especially if the nation wants to claim higher goals at work—for example, saving itself from a worse fate, like loss of “democracy.” Dictators in power are democracy advocates, and dictators out of power are fascists, infidels, and enemies of the people.

Donald Trump is an enemy of democracy itself, says the left in writing and from the debate stage. It is then not surprising when people, often mentally ill enough to accept the base argument that someone who served four years as president, who defeated multiple impeachment attempts without resorting to tanks on the Capitol lawn, and who has run via the electoral system for president three times, is not a believer in democracy.

Would-be killers have seen lawfare fail. Of course it did; it was based on in one instance the manipulation of the justice system to transform a payoff to a porn star as part of a legal nondisclosure agreement from a simple misdemeanor (if that) into 34 separate felonies. In another instance, the lawfare was so weak an attempt on the candidate that a single woman’s vague testimony from decades earlier was enough to convict him and fine him enough to bring him near bankruptcy—all enabled by a Covid-era legal device revitalizing charges long past their statute of limitations.

In other instances, the lawfare was too thin to even hurt. Trump once faced 91 charges in four jurisdictions. Now he faces 12. He’s been convicted on the 34 noted above and seen 45 charges dismissed. The remaining charges face their own challenges after the Supreme Court determined in July that Trump has broad immunity from prosecution for actions undertaken while in office. As in most Third-World countries, the lawfare was executed by clumsy but politically loyal amateurs, relying on home-turf advantage to overcome their weak cases. And speaking of democracy, lawfare to date has also been defeated (convictions alone don't matter when the goal is political destruction) by some judges still willing to uphold the ideals of a fair system and dismiss unfair charges.

With lawfare essentially failing off the table, it is time to demonize Trump to create a manifesto for the mentally ill American who will carry out the grim final round.

The New Republic has duly warned us that “Donald Trump is warning that 2024 could be America’s last election”—if Trump wins, American democracy is over. “If we don’t win on November 5, I think our country is going to cease to exist. It could be the last election we ever have,” Trump himself said, and he would never joke or exaggerate, right?

In another number from the New Republic, a writer concluded,

The election cycle either ends in chaos and violence, balkanization, or a descent into a modern theocratic fascist dystopia. Trump will... use every means available to achieve an America with no immigrants, no trans people, no Muslims, no abortion, no birth control, Russian-style “Don’t Say Gay laws,” license to discriminate based on religion, and all government education funding going to religious schools. Blue states will try to resist this and invoke the same states’ rights and “dual sovereignty” arguments, but it’s unlikely they will succeed due to conservative bias on the Supreme Court and the Trump administration’s willingness to blow off court rulings it doesn’t like. If Trump goes straight to a massacre via the Insurrection Act, civil war is on the table.

“Putin does what [Trump] would like to do,” Hillary Clinton has said. “Kill his opposition, imprison his opposition, drive journalists into exile, rule without any check or balance. That’s what Trump really wants.”

In short, says the Washington Post, “a Trump dictatorship is increasingly inevitable. We should stop pretending.”

And what politics of fear round-up would be complete without Trump’s misquoted out-of-context “Now if I don’t get elected, it’s gonna be a bloodbath for the whole—that’s gonna be the least of it. It’s going to be a bloodbath for the country”? Somewhere after that comes a mention from the left of how our system of bypassing the popular vote in favor of the Electoral College is undemocratic even if it has resulted in a democracy each and every time it has been used since the Founders created it. There are a lot of grievances, triggers, and dog-whistles to hit.

An element of “Trump is Hitler” has always been missing, Trump’s own version of Mein Kampf. Hitler was famous for writing (from prison) exactly what he planned to do once he gained power. Now there is Project 2025, a document disavowed numerous times by Trump that pundits from the left (and the Democratic candidate herself) nevertheless claim is Trump’s nefarious blueprint for a second term. Trump’s team did not write Project 2025, and he has not cited it in his speeches, but it is stuck to him by the Left like tar.

And as a call to arms, Larry Diamond, a senior fellow at Stanford’s Hoover Institution, said that democracies, with their strong protections for civil liberties and the rule of law, don’t drop dead of a heart attack. Instead, they die slowly, incrementally, poisoned at the roots by the fear and anger instilled by demagogues—like Trump. Adam Kinzinger wrote on X, “MAGA pretending they didn’t light this fire is gaslighting to the 100th power.” For those who need more intellectual backup to calling for murder, welcome Jonathan Chait, who wrote, “Donald Trump Is a Threat to Democracy, and Saying So Is Not Incitement.”

It’s OK, they seem to say, because Trump asked for it. "He’s worth killing" is the broader message. “I believe that more Americans have to be willing to endure what frankly is discomforting and to some extent kind of painful, to take him at his word and to be outraged by what he represents,” said Hillary Clinton. “We can’t go back and give this very dangerous man another chance to do harm to our country and the world.”

All of this to preserve Neo-Con control of US foreign policy:

The Damage Victoria Nuland Has Done

The State Department’s former top woman on Ukraine has been an invaluable source on Americans’ involvement in the war—particularly her own.

Ted Snider

Sep 21, 2024

12:01 AM

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-damage-victoria-nuland-has-done/

he Fifth Amendment, it seems, is something Victoria Nuland is unaware of. The former undersecretary of state for political affairs just keeps incriminating herself. But her statements—both intercepted and public—have done more than incriminate herself: They have incriminated the United States. Nuland’s statements have acted as some of the most important sources for U.S. involvement in Ukraine from the roots of the war, the growth of the war, and the decision not to cut down the war and stop it.

The war in Ukraine is a tangled web woven from three separate, but related, conflicts: the conflict within Ukraine, the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, and the conflict between NATO and Ukraine. Nuland has had a hand in all of them.

The conflict within Ukraine goes back long before the war with Russia, but the proximate cause is the 2014 coup that removed Viktor Yanukovych from power and replaced him with the Western-leaning Petro Poroshenko. Nuland was a force in that coup, and her comments are among the most important sources of proof of U.S. involvement.

The “Maidan Revolution” received American financial backing. The U.S.-government funded National Endowment for Democracy (NED) funded a staggering 65 pro-Maidan projects inside Ukraine. Nuland revealed that there was much more U.S. money flowing into Ukraine than the money provided by the NED. In December 2013, she told an audience at the U.S.-Ukraine Foundation Conference that the U.S. had “invested over $5 billion” to secure a “democratic Ukraine.”

But Nuland did more than disclose U.S.-financed meddling in Ukraine. Nuland, who ran the Obama State Department’s Ukraine policy, revealed the deep involvement of the U.S. in the coup itself. Nuland was caught plotting who the Americans wanted to be the winner of the regime change. She can be heard on an intercepted call telling the American ambassador in Kiev, Geoffrey Pyatt, that Arseniy Yatsenyuk is America’s choice to replace Yanukovych. Most importantly, Pyatt refers to the West needing to “midwife this thing,” an admission of America’s role in the coup. At one point, Nuland even seems to say that then Vice President Joe Biden himself would be willing to do the midwifery.

Along with Senator John McCain, Nuland, who at this time was assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian affairs, publicly endorsed and supported the anti-Yanukovych protesters. Nuland also applied pressure on security forces to stop guarding government buildings in Kiev and so to allow the protesters in.

Once the coup was completed and the war was on, Nuland was one of the leading voices for escalation and a lack of caution over Russian redlines. On February 17, Nuland publicly called for the demilitarization of Crimea and said that Washington supports Ukrainian attacks on military targets in Crimea despite the U.S. belief that such actions would cross a Russian redline and dangerously escalate the war.

Nuland’s comments have also been a source of incrimination of U.S. involvement in clandestine operations during the war, including in one of the most spectacular political and environmental acts of terrorism in history. On January 27, 2022, Nuland declared, “If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward.” On February 24, Russia invaded Ukraine. On September 26, the Nord Stream pipeline exploded.

Nuland’s comments have not only been invaluable sources on U.S. involvement in the events leading up to the war and in U.S. involvement in its escalation, but she has now also implied that the U.S. was actively involved in killing talks that might have ended the war.

There is a large and growing body of evidence that peace talks that might have succeeded in the early days of the war were blocked by the West. Testimonials come from several individuals who played a role or were present, including Israel's former Prime Minister Naftali Bennet, Germany’s former Chancellor Gerhard Schröder, Turkish officials, and Davyd Arakhamiia, who led the Ukrainian negotiating team, as well as from reporting on the intervention of the British Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

The New York Times has recently reported that “American officials were alarmed at the terms” and patronizingly asked the Ukrainians, who had agreed to those terms, whether they “understand this is unilateral disarmament.”

In confirming the reporting by the Times, Victoria Nuland may now have become the first American official to imply that the West played a role in blocking the peace talks. In a September 5 interview, Nuland said,

Relatively late in the game the Ukrainians began asking for advice on where this thing was going and it became clear to us, clear to the Brits, clear to others that Putin's main condition was buried in an annex to this document that they were working on. It was about restrictions on the exact number of weapons systems that would be available to Ukraine after the deal. It would basically be neutered as a military force. At the same time, there were no such restrictions for Russia. It was not required to retreat, or to create a buffer zone on the Ukrainian border, or to impose similar restrictions on its own forces opposing Ukraine. So, people inside Ukraine and people outside Ukraine started asking questions about whether this was a good deal and it was at that point that it fell apart.

Nuland also supported the idea that the talks were genuine, saying, “Russia had an interest at that time in at least seeing what it could get. Ukraine, obviously, had an interest if they could stop the war and get and get Russia out.”

Nuland suggests that there was a possible deal, that the two sides appear to have been genuinely engaged in negotiations and that things fell apart when, rather than encouraging further negotiations, the West began to question the deal.

Even now, two and a half years later, when the Republican vice-presidential candidate J.D. Vance outlines what a peace plan for the war in Ukraine could look like, it is the now retired Victoria Nuland who reemerges to shoot it down.

From the causes of the war, to escalating U.S. involvement in the war, to the West’s role in continuing the war when peace talks seemed possible, Victoria Nuland has been both the source of a great deal of damage and the source of a great deal of information on the United States’ role in contributing to the war and to road blocks to ending it.

About The Author

Ted Snider

Ted Snider is a columnist on U.S. foreign policy and history at Antiwar.com. He is also a frequent contributor to Responsible Statecraft as well as other outlets.

 

 

[Pamela Brown]

W seems to have chosen a knee-jerk reaction over asking an intelligent question or two...

[Paul Rigby]

 

[Paul Rigby]

 

[Karl Kinaski]

Judge Eileen Cannon will be presiding over the case against would-be Trump ass*ssin Ryan Routh   Judge Cannon is the same judge who dropped the BS Jack Smith “classified documents” case against President Trump earlier this year.