LHO Not Innocent?

[Benjamin Cole]

While the WC narrative about LHO appears to be a prosecution brief, or a type of posthumous show trial (like many government "investigations")...whether LHO participated in a conspiracy on Nov. 22, wittingly or unwittingly, is an open question. 

LHO's whereabouts during the JFKA are not provable. 

Why LHO went home and armed himself in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA, and then decided to watch movies at the Texas Theater, and then drew a revolver when apprehended...all this does not suggest complete innocence, and in fact suggests complicity in the day's events. 

LHO's public statement that he was a "patsy" may be blarney, but taken a face value, the noun indicates LHO suspected he had been made a patsy in the JFKA----and not that he believed he was honestly arrested as suspect, along with others, or that he was arrested in a case of mistaken identity. LHO did not say, "I am sure this will all be cleared up in a little while. The DPD did their job in arresting me in today's chaos, but I expect to be released shortly." 

If LHO was totally innocent, and just packing boxes on 11/22 and not involved in intel-state activity during the JFKA...why would LHO deduce and contend he had been made into a patsy? 

Some members of the EF-JFKA believe that the JFKA was a CIA or CIA-related execution. I happen to suspect as much (although it may have been an Army Intel-Alpha 66 job).

But LHO is also suspected, on solid grounds, of having been a CIA or intel asset.  So we have a CIA-related plot to perp the JFKA and...CIA asset LHO in the TSBD, but invisible, at the very moment of the JFKA. 

Gee, you think LHO might have been involved in the JFKA, role unknown? 

So...did LHO wittingly, or unwittingly, participate in a CIA-linked JFKA on Nov 22? 

The WC did present a mountain of evidence of LHO's involvement in the event. Even a biased investigation can have large shards of truth. 

I know of no LHO co-conspirators that have been verified. 

However, the GK smoke-and-bang show strongly suggests at least two participants in the JFKA. I strongly suspect there were three, which I will explain another post. 

But...given such a murky understanding of the JFKA, the blank dismissal of this or that narrative of the JFKA is unwarranted. 

Strong suspicions are not facts. Truth is often stranger than fiction. 

(PS. The JFKA autopsy was botched, and the surviving medical records likely monkeyed with. We have highly intelligent and earnest people on opposite sides of all questions regarding which direction JFKA was shot from. I don't know. I will assert as a truth that Gov. Connally was not struck by a tumbling bullet).  

[Nick Bartetzko]

If the scenario of a fake assassination attempt was really true and Oswald was an FBI and CIA asset/informant, then Oswald would be the perfect character to blame for the real assassination. I suspect he might have been aware of a faked attempt, but maybe not necessarily in the TSBD building. I think he caught on quite quickly and went home to get that pistol and meet at the theater as had been previously agreed upon. This might explain why he also left his wedding ring. 

I've not read the Farewell America book, possibly written by Arthur Schlesinger, but might try and locate a copy. It appears there were a number of people like Schlesinger and Gary Underhill who knew what really happened. Whatever government element(s) were involved, they certainly had the power to control the location of the autopsy and the doctors who participated and what was...or wasn't... done at the autopsy. This scenario also explains the missing autopsy xrays and photos and why the complete transcript of the AF1 tapes have never surfaced. There is no question in my mind as well that the Z film was manipulated.

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Nick Bartetzko said:

If the scenario of a fake assassination attempt was really true and Oswald was an FBI and CIA asset/informant, then Oswald would be the perfect character to blame for the real assassination. I suspect he might have been aware of a faked attempt, but maybe not necessarily in the TSBD building. I think he caught on quite quickly and went home to get that pistol and meet at the theater as had been previously agreed upon. This might explain why he also left his wedding ring. 

I've not read the Farewell America book, possibly written by Arthur Schlesinger, but might try and locate a copy. It appears there were a number of people like Schlesinger and Gary Underhill who knew what really happened. Whatever government element(s) were involved, they certainly had the power to control the location of the autopsy and the doctors who participated and what was...or wasn't... done at the autopsy. This scenario also explains the missing autopsy xrays and photos and why the complete transcript of the AF1 tapes have never surfaced. There is no question in my mind as well that the Z film was manipulated.

NB-

Thanks for your collegial comments. 

Perhaps we disagree on LHO's location during the JFKA---I suspect he was at TSBD6---but that is what the EF-JFKA is for, to see different viewpoints. 

My take on the autopsy is that something foul happened therein. Who ever heard of an autopsy with an audience (other than medical school)? An autopsy conducted by non-practicing academics? 

Obviously, the JFK autopsy should have been conducted by nation's finest, and conducted as autopsies usually are, in this case perhaps with one or two quiet FBI or Secret Service observers. 

My take is: the word hit the street quickly that LHO was the perp (whether true or not), even before JFK's body got to Bethesda. Immediately, intel-state dudes knew they had a problem, that LHO was one of theirs. 

Files were panic-purged, and to avoid investigations into LHO confederates---also likely CIA assets---LHO was designated the leftie, loser, loner. 

Whoever was in the viewing gallery in Bethseda was pressuring the autopsy to get over quickly, and apparently pressuring the complaint autopsists on certain details. Whoever heard of an autopsy where non-professionals in a viewing gallery were directing the autopsy?  

I think the JFKA actually caught top brass and leadership by surprise. 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 10/11/2024 at 7:44 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

... why would LHO deduce and contend he had been made into a patsy? 

 

Because Oswald worked for the CIA and -- having been arrested for something he had nothing to do with -- he suspected that he had been framed by someone in the intelligence business.

 

On 10/11/2024 at 7:44 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

The WC did present a mountain of evidence of LHO's involvement in the event.

 

Oswald was framed by the U.S. government. The evidence against him was fabricated. We have discovered many instances of that.

 

On 10/11/2024 at 7:44 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Because Oswald worked for the CIA and -- having been arrested for something he had nothing to do with -- he suspected that he had been framed by someone in the intelligence business.

 

 

Oswald was framed by the U.S. government. The evidence against him was fabricated. We have discovered many instances of that.

 

 

SL--

Thanks for your collegial comments. 

But...in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA, LHO going home and getting a revolver and deciding to watch movies...my guess is he knew he had been framed, or that he had participated in something larger than he knew, within moments. 

Either that, or he actually participated in the JFKA, but was left "hanging out to dry." 

He was not just watching movies and rousted, and at that moment concluded he had been framed. And then LHO drew a revolver?  

Of course, this is all IMHO.

Human behavior is not always logical or rational. 

[Bill Fite]

20 hours ago, Nick Bartetzko said:

I've not read the Farewell America book, possibly written by Arthur Schlesinger, but might try and locate a copy.

Hi Nick

I took a look at the intro on Amazon.  It mentions the sources for info in the book.

Also, it had this interesting sentence about showings of a purloined copy of the Z film:

"I also took to the hustings to show the Zapruder film to groups across the country, mostly on college campuses."

I wonder if this was the often talked about 'Other Zapruder film'?

It's available here for 29 Euros, so I may buy a copy. 

Anybody else read this?

[Jonathan Cohen]

18 minutes ago, Bill Fite said:

"I also took to the hostings to show the Zapruder film to groups across the country, mostly on college campuses."

I wonder if this was the often talked about 'Other Zapruder film'?

There is no "other" Zapruder film. This was merely a bootleg made from the copy sent to Garrison's investigative team.

[Jonathan Cohen]

10 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Because Oswald worked for the CIA and -- having been arrested for something he had nothing to do with -- he suspected that he had been framed by someone in the intelligence business.

There's not a shred of evidence Oswald willingly worked for American intelligence agencies.

10 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

The evidence against him was fabricated.

Sandy's convenient excuse for everything.

[Sandy Larsen]

11 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

There's not a shred of evidence Oswald willingly worked for American intelligence agencies.

 

Nonsense. There is a good deal of evidence that Oswald was employed by the CIA. For example, the CIA's 201 file on Oswald was held in James Angleton's CIA/SIG unit. His secretary, Anne Goodpasture, testified that their unit was used to "spy on spies." In other words, to investigate CIA employees' loyalty to the United States.

@Jim Hargrove has a comprehensive list of evidence that Oswald was CIA.

 

[Nick Bartetzko]

1 hour ago, Bill Fite said:

Hi Nick

I took a look at the intro on Amazon.  It mentions the sources for info in the book.

Also, it had this interesting sentence about showings of a purloined copy of the Z film:

"I also took to the hustings to show the Zapruder film to groups across the country, mostly on college campuses."

I wonder if this was the often talked about 'Other Zapruder film'?

It's available here for 29 Euros, so I may buy a copy. 

Anybody else read this?

Hi Bill,

Although I'm going to be selling or donating my JFKA books, I think this one is worth making an exception for. The other would be Lifton's book if it ever is published. With the Farewell America book, I am curious if the name James Hepburn was ever used or can somehow be tied to the likely real author, maybe Arthur Schlesinger. I am also wondering if Scheslinger left personal papers, if they are available to the public and if anyone has then gone through them.

Nick

[Jonathan Cohen]

16 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Nonsense. There is a good deal of evidence that Oswald was employed by the CIA. For example, the CIA's 201 file on Oswald was held in James Angleton's CIA/SIG unit. His secretary, Anne Goodpasture, testified that their unit was used to "spy on spies." In other words, to investigate CIA employees' loyalty to the United States.

@Jim Hargrove has a comprehensive list of evidence that Oswald was CIA.

Your interpretation is what's nonsense. The presence of a 201 file in no way proves he was a witting employee of the agency. And  there's no point endlessly reposting Jim Hargrove's "list," which has been debunked over and over again.

[Nick Bartetzko]

15 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

NB-

Thanks for your collegial comments. 

Perhaps we disagree on LHO's location during the JFKA---I suspect he was at TSBD6---but that is what the EF-JFKA is for, to see different viewpoints. 

My take on the autopsy is that something foul happened therein. Who ever heard of an autopsy with an audience (other than medical school)? An autopsy conducted by non-practicing academics? 

Obviously, the JFK autopsy should have been conducted by nation's finest, and conducted as autopsies usually are, in this case perhaps with one or two quiet FBI or Secret Service observers. 

My take is: the word hit the street quickly that LHO was the perp (whether true or not), even before JFK's body got to Bethesda. Immediately, intel-state dudes knew they had a problem, that LHO was one of theirs. 

Files were panic-purged, and to avoid investigations into LHO confederates---also likely CIA assets---LHO was designated the leftie, loser, loner. 

Whoever was in the viewing gallery in Bethseda was pressuring the autopsy to get over quickly, and apparently pressuring the complaint autopsists on certain details. Whoever heard of an autopsy where non-professionals in a viewing gallery were directing the autopsy?  

I think the JFKA actually caught top brass and leadership by surprise. 

 

BC,

We do disagree if LHO was on the 6th floor. There were multiple eyewitnesses who saw two men up there. There is no evidence/info that he closely interacted with anyone else during that timeframe. If it was LHO who was encountered on the 3rd or 4th floor coming down, then they have their guy already and the Baker encounter version isn't necessary.

I agree some important characters were caught unaware and others knew exactly what to do to start the coverup. 

[Sandy Larsen]

7 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

... Jim Hargrove's "list," which has been debunked over and over again.

 

Quit making stuff up. Hargrove's list has not been debunked.

You are one of those LNers who add nothing useful to the forum, and therefore should be banned.

 

[Gil Jesus]

Oswald was innocent. He never shot anyone. And if there's any doubt about that, all you have to do is look at the case.

There were three things that indicate Oswald's innocence:

1. The way the authorities handled Oswald.

2. The way the authorities handled the evidence.

3. The way the authorities handled the witnesses.

The procedures that the authorities used in this case were not those one would use to build a case against a guilty suspect. Their tactics were those that would be used to frame an innocent party for a crime he did not commit. Until you can see that, I'm afraid you'll be running around in circles trying to figure out if Oswald acted alone ( as the Warren Commission concluded ) or was part of a larger conspiracy. ( as the HSCA said )

Both of those government entities were wrong.

He didn't act at all. And because he didn't act at all, all of the evidence against him is fake. If it were authentic, it would all add up. Every piece of evidence would support every other piece of evidence. There'd be no questions, no problems with the chain of custody or identifying evidence. Evidence would not be "misidentified". A lawyer would have been assigned to him at his arraignment for the Tippit murder, as required by Texas law.

The case against Oswald is an effing joke and the biggest injustice is that this joke of a criminal case is accepted as true and part of American history.

Edited 3 hours ago by Gil Jesus

[Karl Kinaski]

 Oswald was what is called a non-attributable agent.