William Greer and JFK

[Richard J. Smith]

The Z film is a fabrication.

Jack

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Z film is authentic.

http://home.earthlink.net/~joejd/jfk/mgap/...x.html#contents

[Bernice Moore]

Several witnesses said that Greer stopped the car after the first shot was fired. This included Jean Hill, who was the closest witness to the car when Kennedy was hot: According to Hill "the motorcade came to almost a halt at the time the shots rang out". James Chaney (one of the four Presidential motorcyclists) - stated that the limousine "after the shooting, from the time the first shot rang out, the car stopped completely, pulled to the left and stopped." Mary Woodward, a journalist with the Dallas Morning News wrote: "Instead of speeding up the car, the car came to a halt... after the first shot". (John Simkin)

Something I have never been able to understand is if you watch the Zapruder film, the limo continues with momentum through the attack. I remember reading somewhere that the vehicle speed was approximately 11 MPH. So, how does Clint Hill manage to jump off the following vehicle and actually catch the limo in such a short space if the limo didn't slow considerably which the Z film doesn't show?

Close examination of the film shows that Hill was at the back of the limo at approximately the time of the head shot. So, if he reacts to the first shot of which no one else seems to have, he has about 6 seconds to leap off the vehicle and to sprint toward the limo which hasn't appeared to have considerably slowed.

For me, that doesn't quite add up. Am I missing something?

Below is the article by Mary Woodward.

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

************************************************

Hi James:

I have found this is my files, thought you may be interested, from

Vince Palamara 1999...the links do not work correctly any longer as I

think the sites are perhaps long gone....

BREAKDOWN OF SECRET SERVICE HIERARCHY/ INFRASTRUCTURE

THE TOP TREASURY OFFICIALS:

1) C. DOUGLAS DILLON- Sec of the Treasury (former OSS) : on a Cabinet

plane bound for Japan via Hawaii with *

2) ASST. SEC. ROBERT A. WALLACE- with Rowley at a luncheon in D.C.;

denied dead agent reports;

3) ACTING SEC. G. d’ANDELOT BELIN- stepped in in Dillon’s absence

1963-1964 (related to David?);

4) [uNDERSEC. HENRY “JOE” H. FOWLER- replaced Dillon in Jan. 1965]

THE PRESS SECRETARIES:

1) *PRESS SECRETARY PIERRE SALINGER- code book missing from plane;

according to Pierre, only missed “two or three” trips (almost definitely

only one: Texas); extremely knowledgeable about motorcade planning/

security- worked with Secret Service on all prior advance work… except

for the Texas trip;

2) ASST. PRESS SEC. (#2) ANDREW HATCHER- in D.C. inactive (allegedly

because Hatcher was African-American, but a member of JFK's Secret

Service detail, Robert Faison, was also African-American and was with

President Kennedy throughout the Texas trip);

3) ASST. PRESS SEC. (#3) MALCOLM KILDUFF- first trip on his own:

official debut; essentially a non-player out of the loop;

THE CHIEF’S OFFICE:

1) CHIEF JAMES J. ROWLEY- with Wallace^;

2) DEPUTY CHIEF PAUL J. PATERNI- member of OSS during WWII- worked with

James Angleton and Ray Rocca (liaison to WC); involved in limousine

inspection with Boring, beating Rowley and Kellerman---and the FBI--- to

the punch (skull particles, bullet fragments, vehicle damage/

windshield); involved in LHO income tax check investigation right after

assassination; checked on CIA connections of suspects Mosley and Homer

Echevarria for the Chicago field office- matter was summarily dropped by

a call from headquarters telling the field office agents who spoke to

Paterni to send all memos, files, and notebooks to D.C. and not to

discuss the case with anyone!; Thomas Kelley- liaison to WC: assigned by

Paterni to go to Dallas and speak to LHO;

3) DEPUTY CHIEF EDWARD WILDY- totally out of the loop;..

THE TOP THREE AGENTS OF THE WHITE HOUSE DETAIL (THE SAIC’S OFFICE):

1) SAIC GERALD A. BEHN- in D.C. inactive: first full vacation in three

years under JFK;

2) ASAIC (#2) FLOYD M. BORING- in D.C. at home but IN CHARGE OF PLANNING

THE TEXAS TRIP [bishop, 1988 edition, p. 558; Truman Library Oral

History, p.63- on all the advance work…assigned to all the advance work;

JFK Library Oral History;interviews with Sam Kinney and Floyd Boring

1993-1994]; involved in limo inspection with Paterni, Trade Mart

decision, PRS checks, giving Lawson the Dallas assignment, etc.-

http://www.njmetronet.com/palamara/boring.html

3) ASAIC (#3) ROY H. KELLERMAN- First major trip on his own in a

supervisory capacity without either Behn OR Boring;

THE WHD ADVANCE AGENTS:

1) WINSTON G. LAWSON (LEAD CAR)- WHD advance agent (and former CIC

agent---still with the Former Intelligence Officers Association!): only

did advance work for a short time before Dallas;

2) DAVID B. GRANT (TRADE MART)- Lawson’s oft-forgotten partner from

11/13-11/22/63; physically joined Lawson in Dallas 11/18/63 from Florida

trip (manned by ASAIC Boring in place of Behn); Boring’s right hand man

for Chicago, Florida, and Texas advances;

THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE ADVANCE MEN:

1) JERRY BRUNO- CHIEF DNC ADVANCE MAN: early organizer but not in

Dallas---adamantly against Trade Mart/ choice of route (out of the

loop);

2) MARTY UNDERWOOD- DNC ADVANCE MAN for Houston and Austin---adamantly

against choice of route. Heard rumors of impending

assassination---received confirmation of plot from CIA Officer Win Scott

shortly after assassination (out of the loop)!;

3) JACK PUTERBAUGH- DNC ADVANCE MAN for Dallas: IN PILOT CAR WITH LT.

COL GEORGE WHITMEYER- taught Army Intelligence, not originally scheduled

to be in motorcade. As for Puterbaugh himself, he denied any involvement

in the Tade mart decision he was subsequently “blamed” for. He is often

blamed for the motorcade route change, as well…

THE SHIFT LEADERS OF THE WHD (SAIC ASSISTANTS):

1) ATSAIC EMORY P. ROBERTS – in command of FOLLOW-UP CAR in Dallas:

ordered agent Henry J. Rybka back from rear of limo at Love Field,

ordered agents not to move after first shot on Elm Street, recalled

agent John Ready during/ shortly after one of the (head) shots. Usurps

Kellerman’s authority at Parkland Hospital;

2) ATSAIC STEWART G. STOUT, JR.- stationed at the TRADE MART (out of the

loop);

3) ATSAIC ARTHUR L. GODFREY- stationed in AUSTIN (also out of the loop);

THE V.P./ LBJ DETAIL:

1) SAIC OF LBJ DETAIL H. STUART KNIGHT- in D.C. inactive- transfer to

become effective 11/25/63 (out of the loop);

2) ASAIC (#2) RUFUS W. YOUNGBLOOD- LBJ’s car: listens to walkie-talkie

w/ LBJ---both Dave Powers & Ralph Yarborough denied that Youngblood ever

vaulted over the seat the way LBJ claimed;

MISC.:

1) PRS AGENT GLENN A. BENNETT- temporarily assigned to WHD: why did he

ride in the follow-up car (he was an administrator)---to monitor threat

subjects?-

http://www.mindcushion.com/jfk/anatomythreat.html

2) WILLIAM R. GREER- LIMO: slows limo, looks back at JFK twice, disobeys

Kellerman, etc.;

3) JOHN D. READY- neutralized by Roberts;

4) CLINTON J. HILL (ASSIGNED TO JACKIE)- disobeys Boring and Roberts by

riding on rear of limo four times before Elm St. AND by lunging for rear

of limo ON Elm Street;

PART TWO: FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC TRIPS INVOLVING MOTORCADES 1961-1963:

NORMAL SECURITY IN COMPARISON TO DALLAS-

1) agents on / near limo in Dealey Plaza/ Elm Street before/ during

shooting (up to/ inc. 11/18/63; Boring tells agents not to mount rear of

limo between 11/19 and 11/21, according to Clint Hill)- blamed on JFK!;

2) motorcycles- from upwards of 6 flanking units down to a measely 4

non-flanking units (11/18-11/22 Fort Worth; according to DPD, this

occure at the last minute: morning of 11/22+ meeting of 11/21 via SS/

Grant)- blamed on JFK!;

3) The Secret Service was knowledgable about prior/ existing threats of

11/2 [Chicago], 11/9 [Milteer/ Miami], and 11/18 [Tampa/ Miami]: Boring,

Grant, Bolden, Martineau, Kinney, etc. Remember PRS agent Bennett’s

mysterious placement in follow-up car on 11/22/63;

4) Protective Research Section (PRS): ZERO threats found for Dallas

trip, despite three known checks, Stevenson incident, Wanted for Treason

photos, and warnings to JFK: Senator William Fulbright, DNC advanceman

Marty Underwood, San Antonio Congressman Henry Gonzalez, etc.;

5) Deleted squad car (meeting of 11/21 between DPD and Secret Service/

Grant)

6) Motorcade route: two dangerous turns (90 and 120 degrees) involving

slow speeds in a warehouse district (TSBD)- changed between 11/18 and

11/19 in spite of at least two better/ alternate routes; driver- no

independent knowledge: had to follow the lead car;

7) Publication of route- by (and denied by) the Secret

Service---accomplished with the help of Betty Forsling Harris, Bill

Moyers, and “the agent in charge of the Dallas trip”!;

8) Vehicles out of original, numerical order- changed 11/22 at Love

Field;

9) Media (press busses), photographers (always in front- cancelled at

the last minute at Love Field), Cecil Stoughton ( rode near rear of

limo/ in follow-up car July to November 21, 1963), Godfrey McHugh, and

Ted Clifton- moved away from JFK/ limousine, against prior protocal /

motorcades. DMN photographer Tom Dillard. While confirming this last

minute cancellation, said this brought the press/ photographers “totally

out of the picture”!;

10) Omissions: Behn, Salinger (Hatcher), Knight, Bruno [Rowley, Dillon];

11) Trade Mart (VS. WOMEN’S BUILDING)- determined speed of cars,

motorcade route choices, and security of building---Secret Service had a

hand in this whole affair;

12) Sheriff Bill Decker (lead car)- order 11/22 not to participate…via a

call from D.C.?

13) Overpass crowded 11/22 in Dealey Plaza, against protocal;

14) Windows not watched 11/22, despite Lawson’s “usual instructions” to

do so;

15) ATSAIC Roberts: recall of SA Rybka at Love Field; recall of SA Ready

in the Plaza (SA Hill delay); order not to move; usurps Kellerman's

power at Parkland/ switch of allegiance;

16) Ambulances on standby- gone inc. “epileptic seizure” incident

12:25---five minutes before murder of JFK. Rike said his ambulance was

called to the Dealey Plaza area on several false alarms several days and

weeks before 11/22/63!;

17) No bubbletop- a protective device (shielded JFK via sun glare,

possible deflection, psychological deterrent)---often on car in partial

form, as well (just the rear piece, for example). Strange, multiple

responsibility [Harris, Lawson, Kellerman, Sorrels, O’Donnell, etc.];

ultimately, blamed on JFK (although it was Kinney’s sole/ regretted

decision)!;

18) JFK/LBJ: in same city in slow, open vehicles in close proximity to

each other---unique and quite a “no-no”;

19) Umbrella man- presence/ actions not noted about, written or oral

(cause for delay, confusion? Signal?). SS manual states that this is one

of many things to watch for!;

20) Special ordinance of 11/18 with DPD: permitted action against unruly

persons becoming involved with peaceful picketing---was this a loophole

designed to give plotters/ SS/ DPD some flexiblity to do certain things,

and not to do other things, regarding security?;

21) Greer: slows limo, 2 looks back, disobeys Kellerman; leads race to

Parkland ( despite contradictory radio transmissions of SS);

22) Marina captivity by SS;

23) Autopsy related: body, x-rays, photos, skull fragments, bullet

fragments---SS firmly in control of these crucial items of evidence;

24) CE399: in SS possession

25) Limo: in SS possession---soon after rebuilt, destroying moving crime

scene/ evidence;

26) “dead” agent---many media outlets reported this as fact, at

different times and in different ways (inc. location);

27) “SS” agents---phoney or REAL agents in the plaza;

28) drinking incident 11/21-11/22: inc. four agents who rode in the

follow-up car: Hill, Ready, Bennett, and Landis!;

Vince Palamara 4/11/99

Edited February 9, 2005 by Bernice Moore

[James Richards]

Thanks, Bernice. Very interesting.

I must say that the phoney SS agent(s) is one of the more interesting aspects of this. My memory is slowly failing me of late, but didn't someone identify Bernard Barker as one who was carrying such false identification?

James

Edited February 9, 2005 by James Richards

[Bernice Moore]

Thanks, Bernice. Very interesting.

I must say that the phoney SS agent(s) is one of the more interesting aspects of this. My memory is slowly failing me of late, but didn't someone identify Bernard Barker as one who was carrying such false identification?

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*******************

Yes interesting character to say the least, seems to have been involved within many areas over the years. Re: slowly failing memory, gee I aren't we are all the same

It was Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman who ran up to the fence atop

the knoll after the shooting of the President that met as I believe others did a man carrying SS ID..Later he did identify this man as being Barker who was a CIA

asset... So he was a possible witness or lookout or handler ,whatever.?? he also worked with Ferrie, E.Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis ,Gen.Cabell and Nixon in the planning of the BOP..He then went on to lead the Watergate burglers, this man was very involved....have read he was also at one time associated with the Miami Mob, Trafficante and such.

Nice chatting.....B

[James Richards]

Bernice,

Thanks for the information re Weitzman.

Regarding fake SS identification, we also have the FBI report about Roy Hargraves being a JFK assassination suspect. This was to confirm that Hargraves did indeed have false SS identification in his possession.

Speculation here; but if Hargraves was the Umbrella Man, having SS identification would be handy in case any nosy DPD stopped to ask questions of him or his mysterious companion (DCM). Having Bernard Barker up behind the fence and Hargraves on Elm Street, both men are idealy located to deflect unwanted attention. I wonder if another participant was located around the TSBD with fake SS credentials as well?

James

Edited February 9, 2005 by James Richards

[John Simkin]

1) WINSTON G. LAWSON (LEAD CAR)- WHD advance agent (and former CIC

agent---still with the Former Intelligence Officers Association!): only

did advance work for a short time before Dallas;

Winston G. Lawson is an interesting character. When I first began investigating him I felt his career as a SS agenr did not make sense.

Lawson joined the US Army in 1953 and after basic training was sent to the CIC Counterintelligence School in Holabird, Maryland. Based at Lexington, during the Korean War he took part in the interviewing of prisoners.

In 1955 Lawson returned to the Carnation Milk Company and had various sales or public relations jobs with them in Poughkeepsie. He applied to enter the Secret Service in 1956 but was not accepted until October 1959.

Why the reluctance to take him? Yet, once appointed he makes rapid progress. He did general investigative work in the Syracuse area, until being transferred to Washington in March, 1961. Soon afterwards he was given responsibility for organizing the security for trips being made by President John F. Kennedy and Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson.

How did the SS justify the fact that he was kept waiting to join for 3 years but within 16 months he had one of the most important jobs in the service?

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKlawsonW.htm

[Antti Hynonen]

Bernice Moore Posted Today, 03:03 AM

  QUOTE(James Richards @ Feb 9 2005, 02:15 AM)

Thanks, Bernice. Very interesting.

I must say that the phoney SS agent(s) is one of the more interesting aspects of this. My memory is slowly failing me of late, but didn't someone identify Bernard Barker as one who was carrying such false identification?

James

*******************

Yes interesting character to say the least, seems to have been involved within many areas over the years. Re: slowly failing memory, gee I aren't we are all the same 

It was Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman who ran up to the fence atop

the knoll after the shooting of the President that met as I believe others did a man carrying SS ID..Later he did identify this man as being Barker who was a CIA

Seymour Weitzman was among the identifiers of the rifle found on the 6th floor. He identified it as a Mauser, later changed his mind.

Seems like he was a key witness to support the conspiracy, until his mind was changed.

Edited February 9, 2005 by Antti Hynonen

[Don Jeffries]

Bernice Moore Posted Today, 03:03 AM

  QUOTE(James Richards @ Feb 9 2005, 02:15 AM)

Thanks, Bernice. Very interesting.

I must say that the phoney SS agent(s) is one of the more interesting aspects of this. My memory is slowly failing me of late, but didn't someone identify Bernard Barker as one who was carrying such false identification?

James

*******************

Yes interesting character to say the least, seems to have been involved within many areas over the years. Re: slowly failing memory, gee I aren't we are all the same 

It was Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman who ran up to the fence atop

the knoll after the shooting of the President that met as I believe others did a man carrying SS ID..Later he did identify this man as being Barker who was a CIA

Seymour Weitzman was among the identifiers of the rifle found on the 6th floor. He identified it as a Mauser, later changed his mind.

Seems like he was a key witness to support the conspiracy, until his mind was changed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Antti,

Seymour Weitzman played a key role more than once on November 22, 1963. Not only was he one of the two officers who found a rifle on the 6th floor (both of them signing sworn affidavits that it was a German Mauser), he encountered the aforementioned SS agent, and also found a piece of skull, which apparently belonged to JFK. I have always wondered why he wasn't interviewed in the years following the assassination. We do know that he had some kind of mental problems later, and was institutionalized. You can still access online (sorry, don't have the url) the HSCA report on him, as well as a long interview with a psychiatrist who treated him. According to these reports, Weitzman talked often about all the people who had died that had connections to the assassination, and definitely believed there was a conspiracy.

[Dawn Meredith]

Bernice Moore Posted Today, 03:03 AM

  QUOTE(James Richards @ Feb 9 2005, 02:15 AM)

Thanks, Bernice. Very interesting.

I must say that the phoney SS agent(s) is one of the more interesting aspects of this. My memory is slowly failing me of late, but didn't someone identify Bernard Barker as one who was carrying such false identification?

James

*******************

Yes interesting character to say the least, seems to have been involved within many areas over the years. Re: slowly failing memory, gee I aren't we are all the same 

It was Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman who ran up to the fence atop

the knoll after the shooting of the President that met as I believe others did a man carrying SS ID..Later he did identify this man as being Barker who was a CIA

Seymour Weitzman was among the identifiers of the rifle found on the 6th floor. He identified it as a Mauser, later changed his mind.

Seems like he was a key witness to support the conspiracy, until his mind was changed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Antti,

Seymour Weitzman played a key role more than once on November 22, 1963. Not only was he one of the two officers who found a rifle on the 6th floor (both of them signing sworn affidavits that it was a German Mauser), he encountered the aforementioned SS agent, and also found a piece of skull, which apparently belonged to JFK. I have always wondered why he wasn't interviewed in the years following the assassination. We do know that he had some kind of mental problems later, and was institutionalized. You can still access online (sorry, don't have the url) the HSCA report on him, as well as a long interview with a psychiatrist who treated him. According to these reports, Weitzman talked often about all the people who had died that had connections to the assassination, and definitely believed there was a conspiracy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

___________________________

Is he still alive? Did he die in a hospital? Sounds like he was MKULTRA'd. Anyone know the url for his story? Thanks.

Dawn

[Steve Thomas]

James,

I wonder if another participant was located around the TSBD with fake SS credentials as well?

From the WC testimony of Sergeant D.V. Harkness:

Mr. BELIN - Then you went around to the back of the building?

Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN - Was anyone around in the back when you got there?

Mr. HARKNESS - There were some Secret Service agents there. I didn't get them identified. They told me they were Secret Service.

I suspect that these were the same people that James Romack saw:

Mr. BELIN. Did you see any employees walk up the back way?

Mr. ROMACK. There was two other gentlemen which I never said anything about, that taken over. They were FBI or something standing right here at the very entrance, and just stood there.

Mr. BELIN. You are pointing again to the back stairway that leads up from the street to the dock on the north side of the building?

Mr. ROMACK. Right.

Steve Thomas

[James Richards]

Thanks, Steve.

Well that is fascinating to say the least.

James

[Jack White]

The Z film is a fabrication.

Jack

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Z film is authentic.

http://home.earthlink.net/~joejd/jfk/mgap/...x.html#contents

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You failed to include my entire quote. That is probably because

you were afraid to click on Dr. Costella's website. As far as I can

tell, only Shanet did so.

My quote:

Yes, James. The Z film is a fabrication.

http://www.users.bigpond.com/costella/jfk/intro/

Jack

[Ron Ecker]

Is he still alive? Did he die in a hospital? Sounds like he was MKULTRA'd.  Anyone know the url for his story? Thanks.

I suspect that Weitzman is no longer with us. In a 25-page HSCA deposition in 1978 Dr. Charles Laburda described the hospitalized Weitzman as a chronic schizophrenic. He also suggested that Weitzman identified the Barker photo so that the person with the photo would be happy and go away.

The report is on Denis's website:

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senat...0208_Part1.html

Ron

[Shanet Clark]

Some one is also muddying up the waters here, vis a vis false papers.

By using the flash papers of Secret Service, a life felony, I am sure,

the conspirators were taking a great chance, being caught with these.

Or were they? C.D. Dillon and the "loop" Vince Palamara outlines meshes

with these provocative false Secret Service agents like Bernard Barker,

riding in on the false papers...

i.e. the false papers gave some cover to the real ss who were totally failing ...

That was a pretty quick strategic sealing off of the north rear bay of the TSBD?

They are on both sides of Elm, at the TSBD, at the fence, behind the fence, sweeping the Dealey median, the overpass, the back of the TSBD loading dock...

MIB63

[Antti Hynonen]

A little something to consider:

R. Craig was a fellow officer, present at the time when the TSBD rifle was found, never agreed to change his mind and insisted the rifle was a Mauser, committed suicide in the mid- 70's. His life was pretty miserbale from 1963 - his death, according to Craig himself Bill Decker made sure of that.

In the statement by Dr. Laburda, the psychologist treating Seymour Weitzman comments on Weitzman as a case : " I would not call it a paranoid condition, I would simply say fear of pesecution, or fear for his life, and that is very much based on, I think, on his experiences because of the death of former President Kennedy."

The goons got to him too...