Ruby's strange motivation

[Larry Hancock]

Mark, Seth Kantor's The Ruby Cover-Up is the place to start; its really required reading to get into Ruby during the assassination period. Ruby's bank manager saw him with a large amount of cash, a fairly substantial amount (especially in 1963 dollars) was found in his car as well. Ruby had also had a safe installed in his office not long before - pretty unusual for a guy who normally kept what he had in his trunk and who could not scrape up enough to even pay off a negotiatiated amount on his back taxes.

-- Larry

[Stan Wilbourne]

Larry,

On an earlier post, you mentioned that Ruby recieved an injection of cash days before the assassination and he had visitors from LA. I was unaware of this. Can you tell me where I can find more info concerning these matters?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mark, I think you might find this of interest. It's from Harrison Livingstone's THE RADICAL RIGHT AND THE MURDER OF JOHN F. KENNEDY, page 111:

This was primarily a local, home-grown plot in Dallas that involved police, officials, businessmen, former or active high level military and intelligence agency officers, though it received impetus from Hoover, Lanksy (and other Mafia), and other allies from outside. Prof. Bill Pulte is a professor in Dallas at Southern Methodist University and has conducted a major investigation of the assassination for many years. One of Pulte's key informants, a former Dallas law enforcement officer -- whom we'll call Informant #1 -- is certain Lansky was actively involved in the planning of the assassination. The informant had a relationship with Sheriff Decker, Candy Barr, the famous stripper, (Mickey Cohen's girlfriend), and knew about Lansky's activities. Candy used to dance in Ruby's club. Since Sheriff Bill Decker had his own lines into organized crime, this may be saying a lot.

Pulte puts forward the theory that Ruby was trying to leave a clue when he talked about Lewis McWillie, a close friend of Pat Kirkwood who guested Kennedy's Secret Service detail the night before and early morning of the assassination at The Cellar nightclub, and the others during his interview with Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, and future president Gerald Ford, after the assassination. Ruby stated that McWillie was on his mind when he shot Oswald. McWillie worked for Lansky and was tight with Santos Trafficante. He was another of those arrested by Fidel Castro and thrown out of Cuba, losing his investment and income there. McWillie was also thrown out. Ruby's mention of the "Fox Brothers" to Warren probably referred to the Lansky brothers and not the real Fox brothers in Havana, who were not important. Ruby calls them "the greatest that have been expelled from Cuba," and that would have to be Lanksy and his brother. He said that they came to Dallas to meet with him and the Wynne family attorneys. They came to "collect a debt owed the cotton gin company." The Jaffe family made their money first in cotton. This might have meant that Lansky was helping Jaffe.

McWillie, Ruby might have been trying to tell us, was the one who conveyed the order to kill Oswald.

On page 112 of the same book it continues:

Professor Pulte feels that the Great Southwest Corporation is a major clue in the assassination.

Possibly the single most important chapter Peter Dale Scott has written is the one showing that personnel associated with Great Southwest and/or the Wynne law firm virtually took Marina Oswald over for months after tha assassination.  There were so many people involved that it defies reason to claim coincidence.  The individuals involved went to great lengths to achieve their control over Marina, and put themselves at risk at times in doing so.  Great Southwest involvement may not have been limited to the cover-up, but may have also been present in the planning, as Scott strongly implies.

The business axis has the Great Southwest Corp. of the Wynnes and Murchinson, the Dallas defense industry, including LTV and General Dynamics. D. Harold Byrd (owner of the TSBD) links Great Southwest to LTV through his close ties to the Murchisons and to Jim Ling (LTV)...This was all war industry, along with the huge firm of Brown & Root, Johnson's long-time key supporter, which benefitted so greatly from Vietnam later on. That was the result -- the fruit of murdering Kennedy. And later, contracts in Iraq after our invasion and adventure there.

There was a fortune in killing Kennedy beyond anyone's wildest dreams.

The Rockefeller 20% interest in Great Southwest insured their involvement in the cover-up. They would not have wanted the truth to surface about the involvement of Great Southwest personnel. Situated in New York, they have been able to exert enormous influence on the media. Motive? Bedford Wynne was likely going to jail if JFK remained in office, due to involvement with Bobby Baker et al. More importantly, and even bigger than Vietnam, was the almost total loss of power looming ahead for the Texas oil and defense interests if Kennedy were to be re-elected. As Pulte's source (informant #1) said, 'they didn't want to lose their power.' If Kennedy were removed, they could retain their power and even strengthen it with LBJ as president. They could bring it to bear on Vietnam and in innumerable other areas.

Edited May 31, 2005 by Stan Wilbourne

[Mark Stapleton]

Mark,  Seth Kantor's The Ruby Cover-Up is the place to start; its really required reading to get into Ruby during the assassination period.  Ruby's bank manager saw him with a large amount of cash,  a fairly substantial amount (especially in 1963 dollars) was found in his car as well.  Ruby had also had a safe installed in his office not long before - pretty unusual for a guy who normally kept what he had in his trunk and who could not scrape up enough to even pay off a negotiatiated amount on his back taxes.

-- Larry

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, Larry.

[Mark Stapleton]

Larry,

On an earlier post, you mentioned that Ruby recieved an injection of cash days before the assassination and he had visitors from LA. I was unaware of this. Can you tell me where I can find more info concerning these matters?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mark, I think you might find this of interest. It's from Harrison Livingstone's THE RADICAL RIGHT AND THE MURDER OF JOHN F. KENNEDY, page 111:

This was primarily a local, home-grown plot in Dallas that involved police, officials, businessmen, former or active high level military and intelligence agency officers, though it received impetus from Hoover, Lanksy (and other Mafia), and other allies from outside. Prof. Bill Pulte is a professor in Dallas at Southern Methodist University and has conducted a major investigation of the assassination for many years. One of Pulte's key informants, a former Dallas law enforcement officer -- whom we'll call Informant #1 -- is certain Lansky was actively involved in the planning of the assassination. The informant had a relationship with Sheriff Decker, Candy Barr, the famous stripper, (Mickey Cohen's girlfriend), and knew about Lansky's activities. Candy used to dance in Ruby's club. Since Sheriff Bill Decker had his own lines into organized crime, this may be saying a lot.

Pulte puts forward the theory that Ruby was trying to leave a clue when he talked about Lewis McWillie, a close friend of Pat Kirkwood who guested Kennedy's Secret Service detail the night before and early morning of the assassination at The Cellar nightclub, and the others during his interview with Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, and future president Gerald Ford, after the assassination. Ruby stated that McWillie was on his mind when he shot Oswald. McWillie worked for Lansky and was tight with Santos Trafficante. He was another of those arrested by Fidel Castro and thrown out of Cuba, losing his investment and income there. McWillie was also thrown out. Ruby's mention of the "Fox Brothers" to Warren probably referred to the Lansky brothers and not the real Fox brothers in Havana, who were not important. Ruby calls them "the greatest that have been expelled from Cuba," and that would have to be Lanksy and his brother. He said that they came to Dallas to meet with him and the Wynne family attorneys. They came to "collect a debt owed the cotton gin company." The Jaffe family made their money first in cotton. This might have meant that Lansky was helping Jaffe.

McWillie, Ruby might have been trying to tell us, was the one who conveyed the order to kill Oswald.

On page 112 of the same book it continues:

Professor Pulte feels that the Great Southwest Corporation is a major clue in the assassination.

Possibly the single most important chapter Peter Dale Scott has written is the one showing that personnel associated with Great Southwest and/or the Wynne law firm virtually took Marina Oswald over for months after tha assassination.  There were so many people involved that it defies reason to claim coincidence.  The individuals involved went to great lengths to achieve their control over Marina, and put themselves at risk at times in doing so.  Great Southwest involvement may not have been limited to the cover-up, but may have also been present in the planning, as Scott strongly implies.

The business axis has the Great Southwest Corp. of the Wynnes and Murchinson, the Dallas defense industry, including LTV and General Dynamics. D. Harold Byrd (owner of the TSBD) links Great Southwest to LTV through his close ties to the Murchisons and to Jim Ling (LTV)...This was all war industry, along with the huge firm of Brown & Root, Johnson's long-time key supporter, which benefitted so greatly from Vietnam later on. That was the result -- the fruit of murdering Kennedy. And later, contracts in Iraq after our invasion and adventure there.

There was a fortune in killing Kennedy beyond anyone's wildest dreams.

The Rockefeller 20% interest in Great Southwest insured their involvement in the cover-up. They would not have wanted the truth to surface about the involvement of Great Southwest personnel. Situated in New York, they have been able to exert enormous influence on the media. Motive? Bedford Wynne was likely going to jail if JFK remained in office, due to involvement with Bobby Baker et al. More importantly, and even bigger than Vietnam, was the almost total loss of power looming ahead for the Texas oil and defense interests if Kennedy were to be re-elected. As Pulte's source (informant #1) said, 'they didn't want to lose their power.' If Kennedy were removed, they could retain their power and even strengthen it with LBJ as president. They could bring it to bear on Vietnam and in innumerable other areas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stan,

Thanks for this. Very interesting material. I've read elsewhere about the connections with the defense industry, Jim Ling, D.Harold Byrd (went on safari just before the assassination I think), Great Southwest etc. There's plenty of smoke there, IMO. As for Lansky, I've always believed he was involved. While the Sicilian mobsters shared Lansky's desire to see the back of Castro, Lansky's influence in the outside (non-mob) world of money and power was much more pervasive and far reaching than guys like Marcello and Trafficante. While influential in Teamsters Unions, the construction industry etc, the people of influence in America still regarded the Sicilian mafia as thugs and cutthroats, IMO.

[Norman T. Field]

Tim.

If as you belive, Castro was behind the assassination,in what way does Ruby tie in

to your scenario? I think we both agree, that somebody forced Mr Ruby's hand, as

LHO had to be silenced. whoever this was must have had something BIG on old

Jack. Who do you think put his feet to the fire, and how do they tie in to Castro?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

McWillie had Ruby knock off Oswald because Lansky and Fidel were such good buddies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Folks, Jacob Rubenstein reported to Chicago, which controlled the Dallas organized crime biz. The only folks issueing orders is Giancana or his messengers, not Santos or Carlos or Meyer. If they wanted sumthin from Jack, they had to ask Chicago for the favor.

Unless he was told by Chicago "Do what Santo sez", but he is still going to report back to his people on what he was doing.

[Ron Ecker]

Norman,

In his Marcello biography Mafia Kingfish, John H. Davis says, "Next to New Orleans, the most important city in the invisible empire of Carlos Marcello was Dallas. Dallas did not have a Mafia family of its own; its underworld was a satellite of the Marcello organization, and its leaders ultimately took their orders from Carlos Marcello" (p. 152). Marcello's longtime friend and associate Joe Civello ran things for Marcello in Dallas (154).

Ron

[Tim Gratz]

From my reading, I believe Ron is correct about this (as he usually is!).

[Greg Parker]

One of Pulte's key informants, a former Dallas law enforcement officer -- whom we'll call Informant #1 -- is certain Lansky was actively involved in the planning of the assassination.  The informant had a relationship with Sheriff Decker, Candy Barr, the famous stripper, (Mickey Cohen's girlfriend), and knew about Lansky's activities. Candy used to dance in Ruby's club. 

Stan,

Candy could not have danced at the Carousel. She was arrested on drugs charges in 1957 and danced in LA until going to prison on those charges in 1960. She came out on conditional parole in 1963. The conditions were that she had to live in or near Edna, and not return to dancing. It is possible se danced at the Vegas prior to her arrest. But then, my understanding has always been that the Vegas was purely a music venue...('course, I could be wrong about that).

Ruby's mention of the "Fox Brothers" to Warren probably referred to the Lansky brothers and not the real Fox brothers in Havana, who were not important.

Pulte is wrong. McWillie testified to the HSCA that he introduced Ruby to the Fox Bros. And it's historical fact that the Fox Bros came to Dallas for a court case involving bad cheques used to cover alleged gambling debts owed to the Tropicana. The miscreant gambler was John Henry McDonaugh, an agent for the Eagle Cotton Gin.

Ruby calls them [the Fox Bros] "the greatest that have been expelled from Cuba," and that would have to be Lanksy and his brother.

Ruby also testified that the DPD was the "greatest" police force in the world, and that Harry Olsen and Kathy Kay thought he was the "greatest" guy in the world. Seems he liked using the word.

McWillie, Ruby might have been trying to tell us, was the one who conveyed the order to kill Oswald

Based on Pulte's false premise that the Fox Bros was Ruby's code for McWillie.

[Greg Parker]

Mark,  Seth Kantor's The Ruby Cover-Up is the place to start; its really required reading to get into Ruby during the assassination period.  Ruby's bank manager saw him with a large amount of cash,  a fairly substantial amount (especially in 1963 dollars) was found in his car as well.  Ruby had also had a safe installed in his office not long before - pretty unusual for a guy who normally kept what he had in his trunk and who could not scrape up enough to even pay off a negotiatiated amount on his back taxes.

-- Larry

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Larry, whilst I agree Kantor's book is worthwhile read, I do believe he missed a potentially vital lead which was staring him in the face.

Quoting from my thread in the Seminar section:

November, 1956 - December, 1957: John C Jackson lives with Ruby while experimenting with "degenerative diseases". Ruby helps him find capital for this research work. (Warren Commission Exhibit 1478)

May 1958: Ruby and Jackson are arrested in an overdue rental car in Aztec, NM. This was believed by sources in Dallas to be a narcotics related trip. They are interviewed by the FBI whilst enjoying the views from the Aztec County jail. (7) (Who was Jack Ruby? by Seth Kantor, p110 and Warren Commission Exhibit 1478)

(7) On page 110 of "Who Was Jack Ruby?", Kantor wrote: "The Commission failed to look into an earlier arrest of Jack Ruby by a law officer in Aztec, New Mexico, in the course of what some Dallas sources believed to be a narcotics-related trip by Ruby. Ruby was jailed in Aztec, in a remote area on the north side of the state near the Colorado border, after he was caught driving an overdue rental car. For Ruby, a devoted city creature, this foray off the main highways of New Mexico was an unexplained aberration." Amazingly, Kantor, who quoted from the FBI report on John C Jackson twice in his book (pages 49 and 171), failed to make the connection from this final paragraph of that report (CE 1478): "Jackson advised that in 1958, he had been arrested in New Mexico and incarcerated in the County Jail at Aztec, New Mexico in connection with the rental of an automobile which he had kept for a period of time considerably in excess of the rental agreement. While incarcerated in Aztec, New Mexico, Jackson stated that he had been interviewed by an agent of the FBI in connection with the matter." On the first page of the report, Jackson told the FBI that he had moved in with Ruby in November, 1956 and had moved out at the end of 1957 - and had "had no contact with Ruby since May 1958." That "last contact" was undoubtedly the bust in New Mexico. Jackson's 1964 statement to the FBI was in regard to his association with Ruby. He therefore had no reason to divulge the NM arrest -- unless Ruby was also involved in that. It seems then, that the FBI deliberately withheld Ruby's involvement when drafting their report on the Jackson interview. It is of some interest that the FBI is to this day, withholding a document on the Jackson/Ruby relationship. There is strong evidence that Ruby was also involved in gun-running acticivities dealing with Cuba during this period. Drug money may have served the dual purpose of paying for weapons – as well as Jackson’s underground medical experiments. Indeed, some of the drugs may well have been used in those experiments. To quote from extant MKULTRA documents, "The security considerations applying to xxxxxxxxxxxx were found to be significantly different from those governing manipulation of human behavior. a) Many xxxxx external projects in support of the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx are being funded and managed securely outside the MKULTRA mechanism." (July 26, 1963 memo from JS Eaman, Inspector General, Director, CIA)

[Larry Hancock]

Greg, a great post and I couldn't agree more - I'd like to know why Kantor really didn't pursue this item too far although then again I'm not sure how to do so. It's interesting that this incident was apparently of interest to the FBI and that it occured prior to Ruby becoming an official FBI informant. It makes a person wonder if something related to it was used to leverage Ruby into serving as an informant?

Several very funny things about it, first the location of Aztech just makes no sense at all in regard to drug running, especially minor drug running. A few decades later private planes were used to bring large stashes into isolated places in New Mexico and Arizona but if that was the case in this one then Ruby was really out there on the edge of major drug running. Most of the traffic at the date in question was simply across the border in south Texas. Second, why is Ruby renting a car and where did he rent it, if he rented a car rather than used his own and drove all the way from Dallas to Aztech in it (and possibly other places) its a real break from his normal behavor. Just like his getting a safe deposit box when he became an informant....or his buying a safe for his office in 63 when he was having major money problems.

All in all, it's probably a really important clue to Ruby and my guess is Kantor couldn't figure out what to do with it other than mention it. If anybody has a clue on how to pursue it I'd sure love to hear their ideas.

[Norman T. Field]

Norman,

In his Marcello biography Mafia Kingfish, John H. Davis says, "Next to New Orleans, the most important city in the invisible empire of Carlos Marcello was Dallas. Dallas did not have a Mafia family of its own; its underworld was a satellite of the Marcello organization, and its leaders ultimately took their orders from Carlos Marcello" (p. 152). Marcello's longtime friend and associate Joe Civello ran things for Marcello in Dallas (154).

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, 4th attempt to post a reply.

Yes I am aware that Mafia Kingfish ranks Dallas under Marcello. Numerous other books, including the Giancana bio 'The Don' and the encyclopedic 'Outfit' say that with the exception of the at the time 'open' cities of Phoenix and Las Vegas, everything west of the Missippi reported to Chicago.

Mafia Kingfish also theorizes that JFK was a OC hit pure and simple, which I don't buy. OC did not have the contacts to suppress and derail the subesquent investigations, we have to look to agencies of our government for that kind of pull. I believe that OC was a contractor to the hit, but not the GC.

There doesn't seem to be any doubt that Ruby was a member of Chicago OC, I think he came up throught the 'Patch' faction. Anybody know why Ruby had to leave Chicago? He killed a cop! You have to be carrying some heavy clout to do that and your only punishment is exile.

I recall numerous reports of phone traffic spiking between Ruby and Chicago in the months before the hit. Also, Bill Roemer who was FBI at the time, claimed to have overheard Giancana bragging that a hit was in the works.

All this strongly suggests to me that Jacob Rubenstein still reported to Chicago.

[Tim Gratz]

Norman the GC for the hit may not have been the GC for the cover-up.

The reasons for the hit may have been different than the reasons for the cover-up.

The GC may have been smart enough to manuever things to induce a cover-up. Or, the GC may have known that the government would want a cover-up.

For instance, the GC could have known that LHO was an asset of US intelligence. The GC may have known that the government had entered an unholy alliance with OC to plot the murder of a foreign head of state. The GC may have known that the assassinated president had some "dark secrets" which would cause even his brother to want to aquiesce if not participate in the cover-up.

We KNOW OC had to be part of the hit. Ruby tells us that. If the cover-up was for reasons unrelated to the hit, then it is possible that OC was the ONLY party involved in the hit.

OC certainly had reasons to want to kill Kennedy. It may have taken advantage of circumstances including its knowledge that LHO was working for the US, as well as its knowledge (participation in) the Castro plots to know it could kill Kennedy with impunity. Finally, OC may have had enough "goods" on LBJ to know it could force LBJ to become the GC of the cover-up.

In my opinion, it is not outside the realm of possibility that OC was the sole party to the hit.

Although I still believe there was Cuban involvement and Santo Trafficante, Jr. was the nexus. I find it significant that Trafficante lied to the HSCA about his relationship with Cubela. He had a reason for it.

Edited June 8, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Norman T. Field]

Norman the GC for the hit may not have been the GC for the cover-up.

The reasons for the hit may have been different than the reasons for the cover-up.

The GC may have been smart enough to manuever things to induce a cover-up.  Or, the GC may have known that the government would want a cover-up.

For instance, the GC could have known that LHO was an asset of US intelligence.  The GC may have known that the government had entered an unholy alliance with OC to plot the murder of a foreign head of state.  The GC may have known that the assassinated president had some "dark secrets" which would cause even his brother to want to aquiesce if not participate in the cover-up.

We KNOW OC had to be part of the hit.  Ruby tells us that.  If the cover-up was for reasons unrelated to the hit, then it is possible that OC was the ONLY party involved in the hit.

OC certainly had reasons to want to kill Kennedy.  It may have taken advantage of circumstances including its knowledge that LHO was working for the US, as well as its knowledge (participation in) the Castro plots to know it could kill Kennedy with impunity.  Finally, OC may have had enough "goods" on LBJ to know it could force LBJ to become the GC of the cover-up.

In my opinion, it is not outside the realm of possibility that OC was the sole party to the hit. 

Although I still believe there was Cuban involvement and Santo Trafficante, Jr. was the nexus.  I find it significant that Trafficante lied to the HSCA about his relationship with Cubela.  He had a reason for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So the cover up spontaneously and independently occurred following the hit?

Then how come so many CIAish folks are in Dallas the day of the hit? And OC on their own spent over a year positioning LHO as the patsy? Santos lied under oath? Big deal, people like that lie (or take the 5th) routinely about anything. Nothing in this argument holds water. Have a read of "I Heard You Paint Houses" or some of Bill Roemer's work if you think Mr. Trafficante was the only OC Don in the loop.

What does ring out loud and clear is the incredible level of organization and detail within both the hit and the coverup, which strongly implies intertwined, long term advance planning.

Castro knew Kennedy was his best hope for normalized relations with the US, so did the USSR. Kennedy sabotaged BOP, pulled the ICBMs out of Turkey and tried to negotiate us out of VietNam. When that failed, he signed an executive order to begin bringing the troops home only several days b4 Dallas.

I am aware that my spelling is often poor, so please spare me any complimentary spell checking.

Thanx to all for agitating the little grey cells.