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Judyth Baker


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In November, 2003 Judyth Baker appeared in the television programme made by Nigel Turner, The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair. In the film Judyth tells of her (at first, unwitting) involvement in an anti-Castro conspiracy. A young woman who had received specialized training in cancer research, she was invited to New Orleans by Alton Ochsner to aid Dr. Mary Sherman in a research project that was being developed to kill Fidel Castro.

In 1963, Judyth met Lee Harvey Oswald and became involved on the clandestine side of the research project. Both had unhappy marriages and were attracted to each other. She and Oswald began working together: they were both hired May 10, 1963, at Reily's Coffee Company, which provided cover jobs for them. Several labs were involved, including a tumor and tissue culture processing mini-lab, at an apartment owned by anti-Castroite Dave Ferrie. Lee Oswald was selected to courier the biological materials to Mexico City, but the project was called off due to Hurricane Flora. Oswald was ordered to Dallas.

Oswald kept in touch with Judyth: they planned to escape to Mexico after his major assignment - his voluntary infiltration of an assassination ring against John F. Kennedy. Oswald believed a highly conservative Texas-sponsored cartel was working with the Mafia and rogue elements of the CIA and the FBI in the plot against Kennedy. He suspected that David Atlee Phillips was his handler. After Kennedy was assassinated, Dave Ferrie called Judyth and told her she was being watched: if she talked, she would die.

Researchers are divided on Baker's story: a number of researchers have seen most or all her original evidence files and defend her (such as Jim Marrs, Martin Shackelford, Wim Dankbaar, Howard Platzman) while other researchers attack her story (Jack White, David Lifton, John MacAdams, Dave Reitzes). Baker points out that almost all the researchers who have attacked her story have never met her or viewed her original evidence files.

You can read the John MacAdams account below:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/judyth.htm

I believe his account is full of inaccuracies. As Judyth Baker is a member of the forum I hope she will point this out for us.

John...I have not investigated Judyth's story in depth myself, because simply on the reading of her allegations, her story has the earmarks of fantasy. How convenient that in only three months she met EVERY MAJOR PERSON IN NEW ORLEANS CONNECTED TO THE ASSASSINATION! How unusual that Clay Shaw took such an interest in a teen romance that he furnished a fancy hotel room for their trysts! How unusual that she was mistaken by LHO friends as Marina, when Marina was 8 months pregnant! I could go on and on... but her tall tale simply is not believable.

HOWEVER, forget MY personal IMPRESSIONS. John Armstrong, the world's greatest authority on Lee Harvey Oswald, INVESTIGATED JUDYTH'S CLAIMS and found many errors and inconsistencies according to the official record. I urged him to write a paper debunking her claims, but he said it would be a waste of time BECAUSE HER CLAIMS ARE TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to understanding the assassination, even IF she was briefly acquainted with one of the LHOs. If she believes that there was only "one" Lee Harvey Oswald, she did not know him very well. If anything she says about "him" is true, it may be interesting but not relevant to knowing the truth. Rich DellaRosa of JFKresearch Forum investigated

her claims for many months, and finally decided that her claims were not worth pursuing.

I trust the investigations of John and Rich. The story is worthy of The National Inquirer, but not of serious research. Even IF true, it is nothing more than an interesting anecdote unrelated to the assassination.

Jack White ;)

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Well, well, Jack has not studied Judyth's story in depth by his own admission, in fact he never met Judyth Baker or saw her evidence, but his lack of knowledge does not inhibit him to have an opinion. The real issue here might be that Judyth's story puts Jack's story of "Harvey and Lee" on the shelves next to Gulliver's travels and Alice in Wonderland, where it belongs.

Some people might agree with Jack that Judyth's story, which points out that Oswald was a CIA agent assigned to ultra secret government programs and that he wanted to prevent Kennedy's murder, is unrelated to the assassination. I am not one of those people.

I just posted this on Lancer in reply to Debra Conway, Jack seems to have some stubborn allies:

So you don't understand the statement. You have no clue as to Anna' s reluctance to have her video-interview used? I find it rather peculiar that you may accuse Judyth of lying and fabricating, having a vivid imagination, and more outright libelous statements, whereas you choose to be silent and non-productive if you are challenged to prove or at least back up your accusations.

All this on a forum administered by yourself, where in my book you should adhere to higher standards of objectivity. Instead you are censoring, obstructing, attacking and misusing your position to advance your opinion on a live and important witness. I have told you this before in private and you made a half-hearted public apology. I have protected you. I don't really know why, but I won't any longer, now that you have sought a public debate yourself again. You are going to be answered.

So now Anna Lewis is not credible either, right?

Well, you had only two options. Either Anna is credible or she is not. To choose the first option would leave you with your pants down with regard to your previous and frequent denouncements of Judyth Baker. You really don't have a choice for option two, do you?

But why, then, have you NEVER mentioned Anna Lewis as a supporting (but non-credible) witness for Judyth Baker? Why have you said that Judyth's work at Reily is the only thing she can prove? I assume you are not denying Anna was the wife of David Lewis and that David worked for Guy Banister. And tell us, Debra, are you not knowledgeable of yet another witness Judyth has: Mac McCullough, bouncer for a Marcello owned nightclub? If so, he must be non-credible too in your view. Correct?

I would also like to know if you are denying the proof that Judyth was a cancer researcher at the time, because if you do, I shall enlighten you and everyone else with irrefutable evidence.

In January 2003 you received a phone call from Zack Shelton from a Dallas hotel room. I was in that room too. Zack asked you "Do you believe she worked at Reily?" Your answer: "Yes, but that is all she has!" Apparently you didn't find it necessary to inform him of your interview with Anna. Why not? If she is so obviously non-credible, she would only strengthen your point.

For what it is worth: Don Hewitt of CBS 60 minutes still does not understand why he could not break "the story of our lifetime", as he calls it. He found Judyth Baker absolutely credible in a 2002 interview with the Sixth Floor Museum, shown in November 2002 and 2003 by C-Span.

Wim

In November, 2003 Judyth Baker appeared in the television programme made by Nigel Turner, The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair. In the film Judyth tells of her (at first, unwitting) involvement in an anti-Castro conspiracy. A young woman who had received specialized training in cancer research, she was invited to New Orleans by Alton Ochsner to aid Dr. Mary Sherman in a research project that was being developed to kill Fidel Castro.

In 1963, Judyth met Lee Harvey Oswald and became involved on the clandestine side of the research project. Both had unhappy marriages and were attracted to each other. She and Oswald began working together: they were both hired May 10, 1963, at Reily's Coffee Company, which provided cover jobs for them. Several labs were involved, including a tumor and tissue culture processing mini-lab, at an apartment owned by anti-Castroite Dave Ferrie. Lee Oswald was selected to courier the biological materials to Mexico City, but the project was called off due to Hurricane Flora. Oswald was ordered to Dallas.

Oswald kept in touch with Judyth: they planned to escape to Mexico after his major assignment - his voluntary infiltration of an assassination ring against John F. Kennedy. Oswald believed a highly conservative Texas-sponsored cartel was working with the Mafia and rogue elements of the CIA and the FBI in the plot against Kennedy. He suspected that David Atlee Phillips was his handler. After Kennedy was assassinated, Dave Ferrie called Judyth and told her she was being watched: if she talked, she would die.

Researchers are divided on Baker's story: a number of researchers have seen most or all her original evidence files and defend her (such as Jim Marrs, Martin Shackelford, Wim Dankbaar, Howard Platzman) while other researchers attack her story (Jack White, David Lifton, John MacAdams, Dave Reitzes). Baker points out that almost all the researchers who have attacked her story have never met her or viewed her original evidence files.

You can read the John MacAdams account below:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/judyth.htm

I believe his account is full of inaccuracies. As Judyth Baker is a member of the forum I hope she will point this out for us.

John...I have not investigated Judyth's story in depth myself, because simply on the reading of her allegations, her story has the earmarks of fantasy. How convenient that in only three months she met EVERY MAJOR PERSON IN NEW ORLEANS CONNECTED TO THE ASSASSINATION! How unusual that Clay Shaw took such an interest in a teen romance that he furnished a fancy hotel room for their trysts! How unusual that she was mistaken by LHO friends as Marina, when Marina was 8 months pregnant! I could go on and on... but her tall tale simply is not believable.

HOWEVER, forget MY personal IMPRESSIONS. John Armstrong, the world's greatest authority on Lee Harvey Oswald, INVESTIGATED JUDYTH'S CLAIMS and found many errors and inconsistencies according to the official record. I urged him to write a paper debunking her claims, but he said it would be a waste of time BECAUSE HER CLAIMS ARE TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to understanding the assassination, even IF she was briefly acquainted with one of the LHOs. If she believes that there was only "one" Lee Harvey Oswald, she did not know him very well. If anything she says about "him" is true, it may be interesting but not relevant to knowing the truth. Rich DellaRosa of JFKresearch Forum investigated

her claims for many months, and finally decided that her claims were not worth pursuing.

I trust the investigations of John and Rich. The story is worthy of The National Inquirer, but not of serious research. Even IF true, it is nothing more than an interesting anecdote unrelated to the assassination.

Jack White :rolleyes:

Edited by dankbaar
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Don Hewitt, creator of 60 minutes, on Judyth Vary Baker:

http://www.c-span.org/apa/jfk.asp

Click on DON HEWITT 44 MINS.

Steven: Why do you think - at least it is our perception, or it is my perception - that the media has kind of historically ..... in the 40 intervening years .. gone along with the Warren Commission exept for an occasional line in Frontline, why have they not gone after the story ....?

Don: Cause ..... I DID, I worked that woman in New York ... (inaudible)... Glory and I were convinced that we were going to break the story of our time ... ...And yet, a guy who was a lawyer for that senator I quoted, who was a member of the Warren Report, was a counsel for the Warren Report, was all for us! He kept saying: You're on to something! Let's go ahead, Let's do this! ... But the door was slammed into our face. All of a sudden ... we came to the conclusion ...actually it was Brian Duffy was the Washington Bureau chief of US news, who was doing it with us, and Brian called in and said: We only have her story. (Don pauses with a look of astonishment) .. Ah .... Why did they all let it go? (thinking to find words) ... I think there isn't a news-guy in the world, who wouldn't like to break that story. .... And somehow ... How that story is unbreakable ... is beyond me.

AMERICAN PERSPECTIVES

40TH ANNIVERSARY OF KENNEDY ASSASSINATION 11/22/03

APA presented materials from the LBJ archives, beginning with phone conversations leading up to LBJ's "Heal the Nation" speech, delivered on November 27, 1963, to a joint session of Congress. Additional LBJ phone conversations follow the speech. Then, three more oral histories from The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza. Dr. James Carrico was part of the medical team that tried to save President Kennedy's life. Malcolm Kilduff, the Assistant White House Press Secretary in 1963, made the announcement of the President's death at Parkland Hospital. Don Hewitt, the creator of "60 Minutes," recounts the assassination from his perspective as a journalist that day.

ENTIRE PROGRAM 3 HRS. 6 MINS.

LBJ PHONE CALLS BEFORE SPEECH 9 MINS.

"HEAL THE NATION" SPEECH 27 MINS.

LBJ PHONE CALLS FOLLOWING SPEECH 10 MINS.

DR. JAMES CARRICO 46 MINS.

MALCOLM KILDUFF 47 MINS.

DON HEWITT 44 MINS.

Edited by dankbaar
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  • 11 months later...
Guest John Gillespie

Win,

I believe Baker became the conduit to Oswald's involvement. Some months ago, prior to the History Channel's presentation, I began googling this topic to gather as much as I could. I found a link to a Dutch website that had an interview of her with a local journalist there. I translated this on Babelfish and found one significant inconsistency with the story as she has told it and as it has been presented in the English-language media: she said that she first met LHO when she had dropped something and Oswald picked it up for her. According to this interview, he then said something to her in Russian!

I believe this gives her revelations even further credibility but I understand why she may not want this generally known. Ms Baker strikes me as a brilliant, sincere but nonetheless naive individual - a perfect recruitment target. The love story aspect of thisy seems shallow in its validity but certainly an integral part of the operation from the standpoint of LHO and his handlers. What say you?

Appreciate your comments in the format you presented them,

JAG

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IMO Baker's tale is a figment of her imagination; she suffers from

a psychological need to identify with someone famous.

Jack

__________________________________________________________________

I don't know what spurred this thread to come forward for the response.

Judyth Baker and I have wrote to each other for well over a year. Odd that you should state this. This is what she thinks of me. Well, not so. I feel each person no matter what is a human no matter how high up they go they do the same things to surviive as I do.

Now, Judyth survival is into question. She runs hides, God only knows who in the world pays her money to live?

Can't see how in the world she does it in fact. She has no back up of money yet someone sure as heck pays her enough to barely eat and put a roof over her head she doens't do that one on her own.

As far as Judy telling the truth well yes and no meaning she does when she wants to tell the truth and she lies her head off when it gets hot or close.

So she tells the story and can use that part if questioned and ever put to the test about a JFK matter. After all we are talking treason here and murder for God sakes not to meanion a high conspiracy. I wonder how many charges would be brought up against her if one were to push it and shove it well to the grind.

So this tells me ol Judyth Baker herself even though I called her a few times welllllllllll. Can't say that here. We will just say faker Baker isn't really a faker after all. No she is smart, bright, street smart and not to well with charms to get my anger to boiling points sometimes as well as ofthers anger into a hot boiling point as well. Yes, she is very unique indeed.

Know about JFK prior to being shot.

Know about LHO being made into a patsy, yet she calls him her lover. Wonder what LHO if Alive to this day would call her now???

She got me by begging me to get LHO time cards. She told me two separate stories surrounding those cards as to how late and why she had to get them. I sat back watched her bring me down in the process of a few other things. Like when I got home then I saw the papers in the house and then I knew. I have that email and have submitted it over to JOhn McAdams. He wanted them for his own personal notes. I have battled with her over several things while I have watched her drag me down and others just so our own testimony will never matter.

Well, Judyth as far as I am concerned you should be handcuffed read your rights and put into prision.

With conspiracy to JFK and LHO assassinations.

With purjery for twisting stories around.

With not reporting into athorities on what took place in prison for injecting prisons who didn't volentee for this to happen to them.

I bet the list would get larger if a true knowledgable attorney would look at all of the facts that truely do surround Judyth Baker. IF that is her real name.

Her best friend in the world and her only friend in the world is one thing and that is the hope that NO ONE WOULD EVER BUY HER STORY EVER. She hopes this way she won't have to worry about the real problems that could happen to her if someone really did.

Yes, she calls me mean and Well I guess I am mean and more like it fed up with her lies and twisted versions of her OWN Story will trying so hard to get no one to believe her in saying I want someone to believe me. IF she really wished for someone to believe her she would want to keep to the same story get the facts straight and tell it as it is and not down everyone else.

IT IS ABOUT TIME I SAID MY MIND ABOUT THIS WOMEN.

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Many of her friends maybe friends that is have said to me that I am too hard on her.

Some said well let her say what she wants and leave it alone so what if she says certain things.

This women went public and she should be straight on every aspect she states out to any one. She shouldn't set people up to do things for her or try to look up things for her and tell me don't let the FBI know Don't let NARA know it is me. Those were some of the under comments stated out to me. At first I thought it was her paranoia and she was fearful later on I realized a lot more. I do in fact have those emails and have gone though a lot more of them even from myself to her. I carefully addressed so many things to her and I did ask her a lot of questions and also thought my own thoughts down to her as we went along.

When a person sees a lot more from her and knows that there is something behind it all. This is meaningful but went misused it turns to distrust.

I am airing out my feelings of her and sorry to vent it out and I know this isn't right to do this. Just that it makes me so upset to know she is coming from a truth and downs it on her own just to suit the situations she could face.

I do hope that all of my feelings and findings are understood. It also hurts me so much when I hear very good researchers tell me she is a fake all the way. I have to say no she is a very good con artist to get it done but down it at the same time.

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Many of her friends maybe friends that is have said to me that I am too hard on her. 

Some said well let her say what she wants and leave it alone so what if she says certain things.

This women went public and she should be straight on every aspect she states out to any one.  She shouldn't set people up to do things for her or try to look up things for her and tell me don't let the FBI know Don't let NARA know it is me.  Those were some of the under comments stated out to me.  At first I thought it was her paranoia and she was fearful later on I realized a lot more.  I do in fact have those emails and have gone though a lot more of them even from myself to her.  I carefully addressed so many things to her and I did ask her a lot of questions and also thought my own thoughts down to her as we went along. 

When a person sees a lot more from her and knows that there is something behind it all.  This is meaningful but went misused it turns to distrust. 

I am airing out my feelings of her and sorry to vent it out and I know this isn't right to do this.  Just that it makes me so upset to know she is coming from a truth and downs it on her own just to suit the situations she could face.

I do hope that all of my feelings and findings are understood.  It also hurts me so much when I hear very good researchers tell me she is a fake all the way.  I have to say no she is a very good con artist to get it done but down it at the same time.

*******************************************************************

Who the hell are YOU to regurgitate YOUR feelings about what Judyth should or should not do?

YOU HAPPEN TO BE THE GREATEST EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE CONTINUALLY INSERTING THEMSELVES INTO SITUATIONS THAT ARE BIZARRE AS WELL AS IMPOSSIBLE FOR SOMEONE SUCH AS YOURSELF TO HAVE TAKEN PART IN!

Mind you own goddamned business and quit passing judgement on someone else before you've cleaned up your own house. Remember, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

And remember this, every time you open your mouth about Judyth, I'm going to rip your lies to shreds. You know nothing about the situation! All you've ever done is muddy the waters even further. Claiming to be her friend. What a joke! :D

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Jack,

You are a good reseacher. I don't want you to think that I was referring into the cross reference of this thread into a meaning of yourself.

I am curious as to why you answered it the way you did and how you found out this type of information.

I did list her as mental several times because of her changing her story so much

I also stated to someone privately that she is street smart just to stay alive.

The third comment I made about what I think about her is also a very smart person.

TO which one I now lean towards is just plain street smart to stay alive but also cover her own past.

If you care to explain how you come up with your finding I would be willing to hear it?

Peace to you and myself and to all of the good researchers that are with good intentions behind what they do and their work.

Edited by Nancy Eldreth
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  • 7 years later...
Guest Robert Morrow

Here is an email that I got that is about Judyth Vary Baker. It is supposedly written by Rose Emma Baker. I am posting it to let the reader decide what he or she thinks. My personal opinion is that I believe most of Judy Baker's story - I think she is the "real deal" but she may be embellishing or fabricating parts of her story. I think Oswald was involved in the plot to assassinate John Kennedy, simply because he was, in fact, US intelligence, very likely an FBI informer, and working hand in glove with the right wing.

My take: Rose Emma Baker has an ax to grind with the former wife of her husband. Jhmo.

I am not endorsing the contents of this letter, just "putting it out there."

From Rose Emma Baker

I did not see your message before today. Sorry. Bill, I do not think there is any (way) to disclaim her story. You see you are dealing with 140 IQ, delusional, paranoid, freeloader, who has created a story from pieces of truth. 1. She did work at the coffee factory. 2. She did win a trip from her high school science fair. And the rest is “that ain't history ma'am.” She is living this life she has fabricated, her children encourage her (they do not want to take care of her) some of them believe her. Her sister collaborates the story. (She doesn't want to take care of her either). My late husband's career was with Exxon, so she has had a steady income from SS since she was 62. She went to Canada to do a book signing, because "they"will kill her if she comes to the USA, which she did anyway a few years ago to try to live with her younger daughter Sarah. Which did not work out. And I found out they send her money also. In Canada, she faked someone put glass in her food, and went to the ER. Of course nothing was found. But I do think a granddaughter decided enough was enough at the time. The sad thing was this book signing was the same day as my husband's funeral, which we did not know about until sparks flew in the air, that they had to go to Canada, because this might be the only time they might see her alive. So they went and visited this woman who trashed out the only person who actually financially supported her 24 years of her life, and for 10 years after that, as she used the child support to support her many attempts at tom foolery schemes. then she attend college at LSU on loans. which supported her. It is a bunch of fabricated lies. But the web has been spun. and it is spun tightly.

A short summary from my husband's meeting and marriage to Judy.

From his memory:

He met Judy while attending University of Florida. At the time he was majoring in English. His parents were paying his bills, they were hardworking middle class, and college was unrealistic, but that is what they wanted to do, pay for his college. He was a realistist and kept tract of the little money he had. He met Judy when he was a sophomore in college and was attracted to her. She was attending school but barely, as she was on a scholarship but her alcohlic parents somehow got her money and spent it, so she was working for her room and board. She told him that she had been dating a prince from persia which he felt hard to believe at the time. as there was no evidence that there was a prince on campus anywhere. She was also an English major, not a science major as she claims, in fact she was dismal in Mathematics and Chemistry. College is different from High School. Bob got interested in Geology after taking a geology course for a science requirement. They wrote through the summer and when returning to school for his junior year they continued dating. He continued his geology courses and instead of separating for another summer, he asked her to marry him in New Orleans. He would go home, and send off letters to oil companies in New Orleans, and convince his parents to let him spend the summer working in New Orleans. And she was to go first, and find work and an apartment. She did. When he got there, they went to the courthouse, and found out they had to wait three days or something, I think his car got towed, and they were pretty broke already, but they got the car and drove to mississipi and got married by a judge at night somewhere. Came back to New Orleans, and Bob hit the streets looking for a summer job interning for an oil company that he had written letters to. He did not get the job he thought, but he did get referred to a barge that was taking seismic readings offshore. he did not have money or time to get back to New Orleans, he had to take the job right there and then, so he got on the barge and hoped for the best. Judy was working at a hamurger joint at the time. He was able to send a letter to her before getting on the barge to let her know what was happening. He was out for two weeks then came back for one week. They had a first true paycheck as husband and wife. They bought what they needed. and a week later he went offshore again. This was about the 2nd week of June he thinks so he only went out on the barge 3 or 4 times as the semester was starting for the fall in Florida. In the meantime they took a trip to Florida to meet his parents, his Mother arranged a bridal party for Judy. And they accepted the news with dignity. his Mother had vivid memories of that time. She said that Judy did not have any social graces, and when she took her clothes shopping, Judy refused to have the sales lady fit her for any clothes. And was especially shocked to have the sales lady bring her a bra to try on for size. Mrs. Baker thought it was very odd, and that the young lady her son married was backward so to speak. They went back to New Orleans. Judy had taken a job at O'Reilly at the end of June, as a receptionist and she had to stay longer in order to get her last paycheck. Bob packed up and headed back home to get registared for his senior classes. Judy did not go back to school. His parents offered to pay for her to take classes, but she chose not too. Bob decided the Geology was his cup of tea graduated with honors, and scored one point shy of a perfect 800 on his GRE and had a full ride whereever he wanted to go. He stayed at Uof F for his Master's and then headed to Austin at Ut for his PHD. In the meantime, judy was a stay at home wife, working on paintings. At one time during his senior year she did get a job at a Chemical Lab, yes she did, where she was fired because as she was recording data she made a mistake instead of crossing out the mistake which was standard procedure, she erased it and corrected it as if it was she had not made a mistake, so she was fired after a short time. This was the end of any of her jobs until they lived years later in Rosenburg, and she started working with the small town newspaper. Bob and Judy moved to Mexico for a year where he did his thesis. afterwards Exxon in Houston offered him a job and that is were he worked for 30 years.

They had a daughter Susan, born in Austin, and they lived inside of houston city proper. at this time Judy became interested in the LDS Church, and was conversing with the missionaries (one of who happens to be my Bishop now, and was our Bishop when my husband passed away) my Bishop thought she was a looney lady back then when he was a 19 year old young man, and wondered how in the world this scientist could be married to her. hey noone has ever figured that out, not even my husband, so I figure it was meant to be. for a larger purpose. Bob actually started reading our scriptures on his own, and decided to join the Church! Judy joined later. Bob said she was also looking into Wicca stuff etc. She was kinda wack about religion he said, because she was raise Catholic, and she told him that she practiced the rite of self whipping her back? to purge her of sins she said. So now here they are having children, and a home and a decent living. They do have 5 children. They moved to the suburbs, because one child almost died of pneumona , john because as judy said the pollution in the city was killing the children. they lived in the Meadows for a few years, when they had to move again, because there was this strange stuff in the air getting the children sick, and then they moved to Rosenburg about 45 minutes out from the city. so bob commuted back and forth for and hour and a half each way every day. (I think the yellow stuff is the stuff from our pecan trees when they are blooming it is a mess) I just don't think she knew how to tend to the children properly. Bob said they had all kind of animals at different times in their room. at one time a goat. She would rescue animals and bring them home. looking at the pictures of the whole family, it would be a hard press to think this was a family of a working Exxon Geologist. They looked shabby and unkempt. They were involved with the Church, as we are all involved as it is a volunteer organization. And it wasnt until Bob got an offer to work in Norway in 1985 that things fell apart. They packed up and moved to Norway, settled in. Judy came back in the summer of 1986 I think to take some classes at UH and she came back to Norway and announced that the family would no longer be attending the LDS church, that she was baptized as a Christian while in Houston, at the Oasis of Love and the LDS Church was Evil. The children went a little berserk with their mom, the youngest was 7, the next one up was already 12. So the youngest cuddled with mommy, obviously, little girl, the rest rebelled. Judy kept the girl, Sarah away from Bob at all times, (in our Church the children get baptized at [8)] and she proceeded to try to drive demons out of the other children, well one luckily was at BYU already, but receiving letters from her Mother about the Cult they had been in, and to leave BYU etc. Anyhow, Bob has to go to Houston for a meeting in May of 1987, which was the same time as Mother's Day and Judy's Birthday. He remembers walking out of a store, after purchasing gifts for Judy, and getting the Call. From his Boss in Norway, telling him that Judy was at the airport in Norway, taking the children with her and leaving to go somewhere. Bob called his Bishop-she had joined an evanginical church when coming back, and his Bishop said that he was at the airport, but her Church people were surrounding her at the gate and two of the four children.. turns out two of the children ages 13 and 15 refused to go with her, the other two, the one 7 and another 14 went with her. They could not convince her to wait until Bob came back to Norway. Bob did not know where Judy was for over a month. She had taken out savings, bought a ticket and just left. In her mind, she thought when she did contact him , Bob would follow her, leave his job, leave the Church. and who knows? Well Bob did not to that, he divorced her they split the children. and he remarried when he came back to Houston. That would be me. He was divorced in October of 1987. She had left May of 1987. But he felt she left that summer of 1986 when she went hyperreligious on everyone. We were married on Jan 1988. And I knew none of the above. The subject of Lee Harvey Oswald never came up until a visit with Bob's son Jim Baker and wife, in about 1996. Jim told Bob he had to ask him a delicate question, and asked him if he knew if Judy ever had an affair. Bob told him no, not that he knew of. Jim then told him that Judy was telling the 5 kids, that she has kept this affair secret for all these years, but it was her obligation to tell the truth now, and that she had had an affair with Lee Harvey Oswald in the Summer of 1963. Well Bob is rational to a fault, so while I am falling of the chair laughing at such an incredulous tale, Bob says, well, I was offshore for two weeks at a time, so I cannot account for what she did during that time. Jeepers, seriously Bob, you are telling this kid, that their Mother is telling them the truth? possibly because he were gone for two weeks? When we came home, I asked him Bob, think really hard, because I know Judy is lying, she has lied about so many thinks in the 8 years I have been married to you, that was a critical time in history. I was a lot younger and I remember vividly where I was when I heard JFK was shot. Then he said, I remember that I picked up the paper and was reading it and it had some bio on Lee Harvey Oswald, and I said, judy, this guy worked at the same coffee factory you did, and i remember her saying he must have been in the stockroom or something. I never heard the name before. And then she looked at the picture, and said she had never seen him there. There was not reaction at all.

So that is about it [name redacted]. Take it from there:) oh by the way during those crazy years, 60 minutes decided to call Bob and ask him what he thought of his Ex wifes story, and he told them, shes nuts, have a psych eval and you'll know. Well, ends up they had paid for her to go there, and did decide to evaluate her. She failed and they did not air the story. but see she got on the History Channel anyway.

Edited by Robert Morrow
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Win,

I believe Baker became the conduit to Oswald's involvement. Some months ago, prior to the History Channel's presentation, I began googling this topic to gather as much as I could. I found a link to a Dutch website that had an interview of her with a local journalist there. I translated this on Babelfish and found one significant inconsistency with the story as she has told it and as it has been presented in the English-language media: she said that she first met LHO when she had dropped something and Oswald picked it up for her. According to this interview, he then said something to her in Russian!

I believe this gives her revelations even further credibility but I understand why she may not want this generally known. Ms Baker strikes me as a brilliant, sincere but nonetheless naive individual - a perfect recruitment target. The love story aspect of thisy seems shallow in its validity but certainly an integral part of the operation from the standpoint of LHO and his handlers. What say you?

Appreciate your comments in the format you presented them,

JAG

John: I have not seen you one here in sometime. So in this interview LHO was the one who began speaking in Russian. Not Judyth. Hmmmm.

Dawn

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Win,

I believe Baker became the conduit to Oswald's involvement. Some months ago, prior to the History Channel's presentation, I began googling this topic to gather as much as I could. I found a link to a Dutch website that had an interview of her with a local journalist there. I translated this on Babelfish and found one significant inconsistency with the story as she has told it and as it has been presented in the English-language media: she said that she first met LHO when she had dropped something and Oswald picked it up for her. According to this interview, he then said something to her in Russian!

I believe this gives her revelations even further credibility but I understand why she may not want this generally known. Ms Baker strikes me as a brilliant, sincere but nonetheless naive individual - a perfect recruitment target. The love story aspect of thisy seems shallow in its validity but certainly an integral part of the operation from the standpoint of LHO and his handlers. What say you?

Appreciate your comments in the format you presented them,

JAG

John: I have not seen you one here in sometime. So in this interview LHO was the one who began speaking in Russian. Not Judyth. Hmmmm.

Dawn

Well, that's not the story she told me. When I spoke with her--and the date was March 4, 2000--she related the same incident. What she said to me was that she dropped something, that Oswald picked it up and handed it to her, and that she--Judyth--then spoke in Russian, saying [in Russian] "Thank you, Comrade." And then the conversation proceeded from there. "I didn't think he'd understand it" (referring to what she had just said), "but he answered me in Russian. That was a bond."

I went over this account carefully. "He answered you in Russian?" I asked. "He certainly did," replied Judyth.

As to why Oswald picked up whatever it was she dropped, Judyth said: "He was standing behind me in line. He was already striking up conversation, smiling at me and all that. I knew he was going to talk to me."

She also explained: "Basically what it comes down to is I started speaking Russian spontaneously and that really caught his attention. And the other thing that caught his attention, David [referring to me--dsl] is [that] I looked like Marina. And I think that is one reason they sent me there. . .[notice the "they"--dsl] I passed as Marina on the street. Many times when people thought I was her. I even went to Bannister's office, they thought it was mean, I mean it was her and all that. I looked like Marina Oswald."

As to the the Russian capability, Judyth told me that she was trained "At Manatee Community College in Bradenton, Florida. It was all paid for. I didn't pay a penny. That was unheard of back then."

Oh well. . in any event, that's what she told me (offered in the spirit of: "for those who wish to believe.")

DSL

6/18/13; 10:15 PM PDT

Los Angeles, California

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Just a a matter of interest, I visit Portugal regularly, and trying to understand the language. When I am back home, I occasionally say "obrigado" instead of "thankyou", when thanking somebody. so i can well understand Judy thanking somebody in Russian if she was learning the language.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Reading thru just now. Cannot comprehend why contributors are so emotionally charged. Why the emotions and personal attacks? If an assassination study contributor is thought to be dishonest, just provide the facts or evidence justifying that suspicion and suspend the emotions.

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