Jump to content
The Education Forum

LHO's SS number


Steve Thomas
 Share

Recommended Posts

What does anyone make of this?

In Box 6, Folder# 7, Item# 23 p.1

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box6.htm

There is a Louisiana Interstate Request for Reconsideration of Monetary Determination. (I thin Lho was requesting his undemployment compensation from Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall be reconsidered).

The SSN number for LHO is given as 433-54-3937.

Down below however, it says, "List other names or SS numbers under which wages were earned". In that box is written, "Claimant's wages were earned under SS# which is 433-54-3739." (Notice the transposition of the last four digits).

In Box 6, Folder# 8, Item# 6, p.1

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box6.htm

There is a 1962 Federal Witholding state ment from I believe Leslie Welding for LHO which gives his SS number as 433-54-3739. There is a check mark next to LHO's SS number, as though someone thought it was important.

According to the SS Death Index,

http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/

There is no listing for a 433-54-3937 and a Dorothy Ellis of New Orleans, LA listed for 433-54-3739

She was born in 1937 and died in 1997

How could LHO be earning wages under that SS number?

Does anyone know of other instances where these two SS numbers were used or transposed?

Steve Thomas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does anyone make of this?

In Box 6, Folder# 7, Item# 23 p.1

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box6.htm

There is a Louisiana Interstate Request for Reconsideration of Monetary Determination. (I thin Lho was requesting his undemployment compensation from Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall be reconsidered).

The SSN number for LHO is given as 433-54-3937.

Down below however, it says, "List other names or SS numbers under which wages were earned". In that box is written, "Claimant's wages were earned under SS# which is 433-54-3739." (Notice the transposition of the last four digits).

In Box 6, Folder# 8, Item# 6, p.1

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box6.htm

There is a 1962 Federal Witholding state ment from I believe Leslie Welding for LHO which gives his SS number as 433-54-3739. There is a check mark next to LHO's SS number, as though someone thought it was important.

According to the SS Death Index,

http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/

There is no listing for a 433-54-3937 and a Dorothy Ellis of New Orleans, LA listed for 433-54-3739

She was born in 1937 and died in 1997

How could LHO be earning wages under that SS number?

Does anyone know of other instances where these two SS numbers were used or transposed?

Steve Thomas

Hi Steve,

Quote from the same website:

The SSDI does not include death records for everyone who has been issued a Social Security Number (card). Common reasons for exclusion include the following:

* The death was not reported to the Social Security Administration (SSA).

* The death occurred before the Death Master File was maintained in a computer database. About 98 percent of the deaths in this database occurred between 1962 and the present.

* The person did not participate in the Social Security program.

!!!!!! * Survivor death benefits were (are) being paid to dependents or spouse.

* A recent death may not be indexed yet.

* Human error. (Before you give up, read the section titled "Missing Entries in the SSDI.")

end of quote

I think it is likely that Marina and/or the children did receive survivor death benefits after Lee's death,

maybe someone can ask her.

Btw. I could also not find any data for JFK there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave,

I think it is likely that Marina and/or the children did receive survivor death benefits after Lee's death,

maybe someone can ask her.

Btw. I could also not find any data for JFK there.

I initially attributed the two SS numbers to Oswald's dyslexia, but I also know that there is some controversy with Oswald's tax returns being witheld, and the possibility that they might include unreported income.

I wondered if people researching this angle should also be looking for LHO's tax returns under different SS numbers.

Steve Thomas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 12 years later...

Hey there guys....  Have some interesting updates for this SS# 3739 vs 3937

On 10/25/2005 at 1:38 PM, Steve Thomas said:

There is no listing for a 433-54-3937 and a Dorothy Ellis of New Orleans, LA listed for 433-54-3739

There is no listing for a 433-54-3937  :huh:

huh?  how come....?

The BURCHAM EX#1 is the 1963 TEX application which finds that JCS tax records show a different SS # - as we see below....

FRANCE St vs FRENCH St

 

1545515156_SS3739onCopyCW-2Jaggars1962Withholding.thumb.gif.83f338a659eedcbec1497f9a8b6ed0fd.gif

img_1136_222_200.jpgimg_1136_223_200.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SS SA GERRETS submits a report related to SA Rice looking for John Martin  http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/M Disk/Martin Jack/Item 06.pdf 

1282284649_Oswald3739againinSecretServiceReport.jpg.a63756010bc5617c1c9b08a972ca3252.jpg

 

Here is the JCS form with "3739"

So he supposedly fills in this form which creates a SS (and other wage holding accounts) for SS# 433-54-3739, instead of 3937...

The forms above mentioning the problem is supposedly an interstate form to correct the problem...

MFF write: http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/O Disk/Oswald Lee Harvey/Income/Item 02.pdf

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1140#relPageId=909&tab=page 

2058736098_63-04-06OswaldstartswithJaggars-wrongSSnumber-3739-cropped.jpg.e0b1576b61d7813693bb8b78ba2c9cfe.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Hey there guys....  Have some interesting updates for this SS# 3739 vs 3937

There is no listing for a 433-54-3937  :huh:

huh?  how come....?

The BURCHAM EX#1 is the 1963 TEX application which finds that JCS tax records show a different SS # - as we see below....

FRANCE St vs FRENCH St

David,

 

I can remember at the time being suspicious of the whole Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall sojourn.

Nobody in his social circle could remember who recommended him for the job.

The people at the Texas Employment Commission couldn't remember why they referred him.

His whole background (during his stay in the Soviet Union, and his work at Leslie Welding was as a sheet metal worker).

The people at JCS couldn't really remember why they hired him.

You've got the whole missing two weeks of October 19-November 3rd where nobody knew where he was living - not his family, his wife, his friends, his co-workers, his bosses...

Then to learn that he was working there under a different social security number...

It just made me suspicious as all get out.

 

Steve Thomas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Then to learn that he was working there under a different social security number...

And supposedly at his own hand...

It is only on the JCS employment questoinaire

5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

You've got the whole missing two weeks of October 19-November 3rd where nobody knew where he was living - not his family, his wife, his friends, his co-workers, his bosses...

Rented a U-Haul?  without a driver's license?  (edit: it seems it was a trailer to hitch to someone's vehicle - but that's not what happened... one of the guests, Mrs. Hall, takes care of it...)

the address Oswald uses - with the incorrect SS# - is the apartment of George DeM's wife's daughter Alexadra and her husband Gary.  Here is how the FBI/CIA gets the DeM family to corroborate the "wife beating" that is supposedly going on... 

H&L p. 412

"George DeMohrenschildt's daughter, Alexandra Taylor, received a call from her father who asked if she and her husband, Gary Taylor, would like to meet a nice young couple. George told his daughter that Oswald had lived in the Soviet Union, married a Russian woman, and brought her back to the US with him. T he Taylors drove from Dallas to Fort Worth and met Lee Harvey Oswald, Marina, George DeMohrenschildt, George Bouhe, "Marguerite Oswald," and Elena Hall at the apartment on Mercedes.

Shortly after they arrived Marina began to complain to George and her guests that Oswald was beating her. DeMohrenschildt felt sorry for Marina and asked Gary and Alexandra if she could stay with them at their apartment. They agreed and Marina spent the next four days at 3519 Fairmont (apt, #12) in Dallas. Alexandra quickly realized that Marina was "slovenly and didn't know anything about baby care," which seemed unusual for a woman who had allegedly obtained a degree as a "pharmacist" in Russia."

H&L p.413

Following the removal of four rotten teeth Marina moved in with Mrs. John R. (Elena) Hall, who borrowed a pickup truck and helped her move into her house in Fort Worth. Mrs. Hall was a Russian emigre who was separated from her American husband and working for the Texas Employment Commission in their Fort Worth office.

One has to wonder then why Oswald uses the FAIRMONT address which it appears that only Marina lived there while Oswald was in mystery land...

1407290691_WherewasOswaldOct19thruNov2-rentedaUHaul.thumb.jpg.a67785fc85b6832cca9ddf6f135a27d9.jpg

 

Edited by David Josephs
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are we finding it somewhat coincidental that in both early Oct 1962 & 1963, Oswald is not exactly where THEY say he was...

In 1962 & 1963 the YMCA appears to be the location of choice.  If I remember correctly, the Y was not too far from the ERVAY FBI...

Think there is something special about Oswald and the month of October??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Are we finding it somewhat coincidental that in both early Oct 1962 & 1963, Oswald is not exactly where THEY say he was...

In 1962 & 1963 the YMCA appears to be the location of choice.  If I remember correctly, the Y was not too far from the ERVAY FBI...

Think there is something special about Oswald and the month of October??

David,

 

Over and above the month of October, I think it's got something to do with the YMCA. In 1962, he will check out of the Y and disappear for two weeks.

He would repeat this process in 1963. On October 3, 1963 Oswald supposedly returned from Mexico and checked into room 601 of the YMCA. He would move from the YMCA to a rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley on October 15th.
 

The owner of the rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley, Mrs. Johnson, said that Oswald first came by looking for a room at 1026 about three weeks before he actually moved in.
 

Oswald apparently lived at Mary Bledsoe's house on N. Marsalis from the 7th to the 14th of October, but I thought what she said was very odd. In her WC testimony, she said,

“Mrs. BLEDSOE - Had his things on his hand and had his bag, but after he paid my $7 he went out---I don't know, I think this YMCA, but I am not supposed to know where,...”
 

Was there something significant in the northern section of Beckley St. that would cause Oswald to go from the YMCA in downtown Dallas to that section of Oak Cliff twice?

 

Steve Thomas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Was there something significant in the northern section of Beckley St. that would cause Oswald to go from the YMCA in downtown Dallas to that section of Oak Cliff twice?

the CIA safe house in the back maybe?   :huh:

849391100_HerbertLEEwasHLEEat1026BeckleyinroomOafterOct15.thumb.jpg.22b295065e6a70d98f2220fcb01e8381.jpg599347262_Garageapartmentbehind1026NBeckley-colorphoto-smaller.jpg.3c85e518915f86c82814541ae91115b5.jpg

It is my feeling he was at the YMCA after he got to Dallas at the end of Sept 1963...  after stopping in Austin...

1173998817_CE2137-CorroborationthatOswaldwasinAustinonthewaytoMexico-maybefor2days.thumb.jpg.8c0e2501b7e41489349703f8a910e411.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

the CIA safe house in the back maybe?   :huh:

 

It is my feeling he was at the YMCA after he got to Dallas at the end of Sept 1963...  after stopping in Austin...

 

David,

 

It's just my gut, but I think there's something significant about the YMCA.

De-briefings maybe?

 

Steve Thomas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

David,

 

 

On October 3, 1963 Oswald supposedly returned from Mexico and checked into room 601 of the YMCA. He would move from the YMCA to a rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley on October 15th.
 

The owner of the rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley, Mrs. Johnson, said that Oswald first came by looking for a room at 1026 about three weeks before he actually moved in.

 

Three weeks before October 15th would be the last week of September.

Forgetting Sylvia Odio for a  moment, Oswald supposedly went from New Orleans to Mexico City where he played footsie with the Cubans and Russians the last week of September.

How could he be down there at the same time he is asking Mrs. Johnson for a room on north Beckley?

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/johnso_g.htm

 

"Mrs. JOHNSON. At my home--I was between serving hours and I come home for relaxation and to kind of help out. I cooperate in keeping the house and seeing after it, too, and I had returned home that afternoon and he seen the room for rent sign--the first time that he came by, I happened to have just rented the last room that one time. Occasionally, I will have them full and then they just go vacant; people just come in and out, stay a week and then are gone, anyway, at that time, I didn't have a room.
Mr. BALL. The first time he came to see you?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes; that's something about 3 weeks before he came back.
Mr. BALL. This was 1026 North Beckley?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BALL. He talked to you?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes; the first time and the last time; the first time, he told me he wanted a room and I told him I was very sorry, I just rented the last room..."

 

Steve Thomas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

How could he be down there at the same time he is asking Mrs. Johnson for a room on north Beckley?

He can't cause he wasn't....  When/If the day comes this truth is universally understood, the events following will make much more sense...

The Johnson story helps to corroborate the REAL story of his travels from New Orleans thru Austin and to Dallas and Odio by Sept 27th...
Stop in and "reserve" a room where there is a CIA safe house in the back... stay in Dallas all week, do the YMCA thing that final weekend and get to Irving on the 4th.

Interesting that Johnson initially tells him that there are no rooms - it's hit and miss...  yet there he is again, Monday October 14th - the day BEFORE he goes to the TSBD to fill out an application...

Why Oak Cliff one wonders....  other than the obvious....

 

==================

Would be the perfect place for the FBI to meet up with "assets"...

Maybe Uncle Malcolm has something to share on that YMCA?

the HULEN Exhibits show an Oswald at the YMCA in Oct 62... https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1137#relPageId=214&tab=page

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/barnhors.htm was the desk clerk claiming to have seen the Oct 1963 records

Now, they claim he arrived at the YMCA on Monday the 15th, room 415..  "TRANCIENTS IN:"
Except we also have a Lee Oswald TRANCIENTS OUT: from room 912 which means he MUST have checked in the night before, at the least.

 

img_1137_218_300.png img_1137_219_300.png

 

 

1963:  One has to wonder if the YMCA was the base of operations & where he went to retrieve his stuff...  I guess we can assume Wesley took him home on his Bday the 18th... but he only answers generally...

Mr. BALL - Your memory is that he went,, he rode home with you every Friday and came back the following Monday? 
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes. 
Mr. BALL - Except this one weekend? 
Mr. FRAZIER - Right,

-----

Mr. BALL. When is the first time you ever saw Lee Oswald?
Mrs. ROBERTS. The day he came in and rented the room--the 14th of October.

Mrs. ROBERTS. He rented the room and paid me $8 for it and he said, "I'll go get my things and I will be back."
Mr. BALL. Did he say where he was going to get them?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No, he didn't.
Mr. BALL., Did he leave?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; he left.
Mr. BALL. Did he have a car he was riding in ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I don't know---I didn't see it.
Mr. BALL. Did he take a bus?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I don't know.
Mr. BALL. You don't know?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No, I don't. I don't remember---you know in a place like that---when you rent a room---I didn't pay no attention.
Mr. BALL. And he came back about what time?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Oh, I imagine around 5 o'clock, maybe.
Mr. BALL. What did he have with him at that time?
Mrs. ROBERTS. That little zipper satchel bag and some clothes on a hanger.
Mr. BALL. The first time he came to see you he had a zipper satchel bag?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No; he didn't have nothing when he first come in and rented the room.
Mr. BALL. He didn't have anything?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No---he just came in.
Mr. BALL. Oh, when he came back he had the zipper satchel and the clothes on the hanger, is that right?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No---he rented the room and paid for it and said, "I'll go get my things." That's when he went and come back with his little satchel bag and some clothes on a hanger, which was a very few.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...