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photo alteration by the media


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Nice work, Chris. Gee... something that actually looks like something...

Yes, great job that Chris did. Now can someone get him to show how merely laying his hand and wrist on a leather seat can make half of it disappear? And to the 'it must be a shadow from the rear seat' thinkers or non-thinkers (which ever the case may be) .... show one photo without Clint Hill on the limo that shows the seat doing what some have alleged. I'll start it off ...

[initially=6932]

It didn't cast such a shadow here with the sun shining down from the drivers side of the limo. The reason it didn't do it is because the seat doesn't rise high enough in the air, nor is it close enough to the edge of the limo to account for what is seen in the Miller photo.

Bill Miller

I want to start off by saying hello to everyone.

I hope as time goes on, I'll be able to contribute to this forum, as all of you have before me.

Even though I have not interacted with most of the members, I hope they will not take offense if I respond

to them using their first names.

If it is offensive, please inform me and I will address them properly.

On with the show,

Initially I thought the object was a shoe. That would be the object as a whole. As I enlarged it about 15 times its original size, the hand part became more pronounced. This is what the animation solely represents.

The back part of this object is a right hand which sticks out of a jacket sleeve. imo

The front part I have no idea.

For a quick test, try placing your hand in the same position as the animation displays. If you follow the contour of your hand from thumb end to wrist, it matches the original. imo

With that said, how the rest of a body connected to that right hand is oriented within the limo, is not clear to me.

Any ideas,

chris

Edited by Chris Davidson
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Welcome, Chris! I'm looking forward to your ingenuity, proficiency, and attention to detail - displayed in your first posting.

With that said, how the rest of a body connected to that right hand is oriented within the limo, is not clear to me.

You said a "mouthful"... :)

Edited by JL Allen
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Chris,

The image does resemble a hand if you discount the "front part" - but if you DON'T discount the "front part" it looks like a shoe, in my opinion.

Doesn't it look like a shoe to you? Forget about a hand just for a moment. Look for a shoe. Do you see one?

Not to mention the fact that JFK's body was on the *other* side of the back seat, with his head facing the other door.

MV

[b]Yeh, I thought we all agreed that it could look like a hand if one looks at it long enough, but it would seem that someone who read where Hill said he had his foot over the door panel, where it could not have been a shadow from the top of the back seat, and seeing how we had the Newman photo showing Hill less than a foot or so from having his "OVERTURNED FOOT" in that same upsidedown position, and the fact that there was no evidence that a dead man just lifts his limbs up and flops them onto the top edge of the car, nor if they do then they somehow can burry their hand halfway into a tight leather seat ... that somehow common sense would kick in and the nonsense would have been behind everyone. I only hope that Specter never reads this thread or he will be showing to his buddies and saying how it shows why CT's should not even be listened to.

Bill Miller[/b]

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"someone who read where Hill said he had his foot over the door panel"

who read this? where?

"where it could not have been a shadow from the top of the back seat"

probably, though hands are opaque as well

"seeing how we had the Newman photo showing Hill less than a foot"

less than a foot?, are you sure?

"dead man"

his respiration was stil having slight spasms in the hospital

"burry(sic) their hand halfway into a tight leather seat"

you are NOT showing the top edge of the "wrist". It's faint but it's there. Further if it was a moment of spasming then there is no reason to say enough weight could not be applied to cause some 'burying'.

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[

I want to start off by saying hello to everyone.

I hope as time goes on, I'll be able to contribute to this forum, as all of you have before me.

Even though I have not interacted with most of the members, I hope they will not take offense if I respond

to them using their first names.

If it is offensive, please inform me and I will address them properly.

On with the show,

Initially I thought the object was a shoe. That would be the object as a whole. As I enlarged it about 15 times its original size, the hand part became more pronounced. This is what the animation solely represents.

The back part of this object is a right hand which sticks out of a jacket sleeve. imo

The front part I have no idea.

For a quick test, try placing your hand in the same position as the animation displays. If you follow the contour of your hand from thumb end to wrist, it matches the original. imo

With that said, how the rest of a body connected to that right hand is oriented within the limo, is not clear to me.

Any ideas,

chris

Chris,

The image does resemble a hand if you discount the "front part" - but if you DON'T discount the "front part" it looks like a shoe, in my opinion.

Doesn't it look like a shoe to you? Forget about a hand just for a moment. Look for a shoe. Do you see one?

Not to mention the fact that JFK's body was on the *other* side of the back seat, with his head facing the other door.

MV

Mark, as I stated earlier initially I thought it was a shoe. As a whole, it does look like a shoe.

I took some pictures with my shoes flipped upside down in the approx. position and superimposed them over the photo. The problem I have with the shoe is the contour from thumb to wrist. It's not there.

Where as with my hand, it is.

Another question I have is: who or what is this?

thanks

chris

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"someone who read where Hill said he had his foot over the door panel"

who read this? where?

Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to secure a handhold or a leghold or any sort of a hold on the automobile as you moved forward?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I had my legs--I had my body above the rear seat, and my legs hooked down into the rear seat, one foot outside the car.

"where it could not have been a shadow from the top of the back seat"

probably, though hands are opaque as well

Hand or back seat ... it is not high enough to have case a shadow over the side of the car. However, the sole of Hill's shoe was large enough to be hooked over the side of the limo.

"seeing how we had the Newman photo showing Hill less than a foot"

less than a foot?, are you sure?

A foot - 2 feet ... does it really matter? Hill came from the direction of the back of the limo and slid his foot forward betweeen photos.

"dead man"

his respiration was stil having slight spasms in the hospital

agonal respirations .... the body can do this after death.

"burry(sic) their hand halfway into a tight leather seat"

you are NOT showing the top edge of the "wrist". It's faint but it's there. Further if it was a moment of spasming then there is no reason to say enough weight could not be applied to cause some 'burying'.

The photo is what it is ... there is no wrist for me to show. Chris did a pretty fair overlay and the sole of the shoe comes in right over the top of the alleged wrist.

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the stitching (yellow line) doesn't continue up to the "wrist" as you and Bill suggest it to be, also there is a slight luminance difference: hence something is there that is not seat.

EDIT:: one foot outside the car does NOT mean "hooked over the doorpanel", it means "one foot outdside the car

"does it really matter" perhaps Arlen could comment on what matters and whether or not to take 'ct'ers' seriously?

EDIT2 :: response to below : I think you were the first to allege that anyone suggested that to be the edge of the wrist

Edited by John Dolva
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the stitching (yellow line) doesn't continue up to the "wrist" as you and Bill suggest it to be, also there is a slight luminance difference: hence something is there that is not seat.

EDIT:: one foot outside the car does NOT mean "hooked over the doorpanel", it means "one foot outdside the car

"does it really matter" perhaps Arlen could comment on what matters and whether or not to take 'ct'ers' seriously?

EDIT2 :: response to below : I think you were the first to allege that anyone suggested that to be the edge of the wrist

EDIT3:: btw why are you repeatedly stretching images out of shape?

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[

I want to start off by saying hello to everyone.

I hope as time goes on, I'll be able to contribute to this forum, as all of you have before me.

Even though I have not interacted with most of the members, I hope they will not take offense if I respond

to them using their first names.

If it is offensive, please inform me and I will address them properly.

On with the show,

Initially I thought the object was a shoe. That would be the object as a whole. As I enlarged it about 15 times its original size, the hand part became more pronounced. This is what the animation solely represents.

The back part of this object is a right hand which sticks out of a jacket sleeve. imo

The front part I have no idea.

For a quick test, try placing your hand in the same position as the animation displays. If you follow the contour of your hand from thumb end to wrist, it matches the original. imo

With that said, how the rest of a body connected to that right hand is oriented within the limo, is not clear to me.

Any ideas,

chris

Chris,

The image does resemble a hand if you discount the "front part" - but if you DON'T discount the "front part" it looks like a shoe, in my opinion.

Doesn't it look like a shoe to you? Forget about a hand just for a moment. Look for a shoe. Do you see one?

Not to mention the fact that JFK's body was on the *other* side of the back seat, with his head facing the other door.

MV

Mark, as I stated earlier initially I thought it was a shoe. As a whole, it does look like a shoe.

I took some pictures with my shoes flipped upside down in the approx. position and superimposed them over the photo. The problem I have with the shoe is the contour from thumb to wrist. It's not there.

Where as with my hand, it is.

Another question I have is: who or what is this?

thanks

chris

Exactly how do you deal with the dark shape that covers the lower triangle chrome strip on the side of the limo. A shadow from the seat is impossible, as is a reflection of seat. Both will break simple laws of physics.

The ONLY thing that is possible is SOMETHING actually hanging OVER the lower chrome strip.

Everything else is a hucksters sideshow

No one else here has had the intellectual honesty to deal with this basic issue ...do you?

Edited by Craig Lamson
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"someone who read where Hill said he had his foot over the door panel"

who read this? where?

Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to secure a handhold or a leghold or any sort of a hold on the automobile as you moved forward?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir. I had my legs--I had my body above the rear seat, and my legs hooked down into the rear seat, one foot outside the car.

Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to secure a handhold or a leghold or any sort of a hold on the automobile as you moved forward?

...as you moved forward

...as you moved forward

...as you moved forward

Ashton Gray

P.S. Could there maybe be a reading comprehension test requirement?

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