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Findings: On this composite the black lines are the locations of the front edge of the fender on consecutive frames as per available film . The lower single red mark is the frame where the headshot is first visible. The red lines between the black lines are my estimates of missing frames. When the film runs the missing frames give an appearance of smooth continuity. When properly placed in space on the composite the jerky leaps of speed at the missing frames is obvious.

(image)

Edited by John Dolva
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Findings: On this composite the black lines are the locations of the front edge of the fender on consecutive frames as per available film . The lower single red mark is the frame where the headshot is first visible. The red lines between the black lines are my estimates of missing frames. When the film runs the missing frames give an appearance of smooth continuity. When properly placed in space on the composite the jerky leaps of speed at the missing frames is obvious.

(image)

VERY INTERESTING, JOHN! I hope you can figure a way to show this in motion.

Jack

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Jack, I've installed some programs that have messed up my film maker. What I can do at this stage is to make up all the frames as jpegs and zip them up into a file I'll send to anyone who can put them together as a gif or a clip to post. Once I have them done in a day or so I'll notify and whoever can PM or email details of where to send them.

Edited by John Dolva
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Hey John;

Watch out, you have entered David's domain and what he and a few others have been attempting to demonstrate for a long time.

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Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; I might state first that all of the other photographs were reestablished on the basis of the Zapruder film using reference points in the background of the pictures.

As is apparent here from the photograph of the Zapruder frame 313 there are no reference points. There is just a grassy plot. So there is no reference point on which we can reestablish the position of the car in the roadway.

For this reason it was necessary to use the Nix film of the head shot and the Muchmore film of the head shot to establish this position in the road.

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Actually! There was already an existing nail in the road at the location of the Z313 headshot, as long ago established during the US Secret Service survey work and re-enactment of December 1963.

Perhaps if the WC/Shaneyfelt had just asked Mr. West, they could have saved a lot more running in circles.

Said Nail happens to be the 3+65 stationing number which Mr. West had assigned during the SS survey work and thereafter utilized again, even though the WC attempted to confuse footages by beginning their survey work at "Station A".

Therefore the term: Sneaky-Yes/Smart-No!

Specter & Company forgot to inform Mr. West NOT to utilize the stationing for Elm St. which he had previously established during the SS Work.

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Mr. SHANEYFELT. We obtained from Mr. Zapruder, Mr. Nix, Mrs. Muchmore; their cameras for examination, and in the FBI laboratory exposed film in all three cameras, aiming, focusing the camera on a clock with a large sweep-second hand. We then ran the camera at the speed and conditions as described by the people who used the cameras. We ran through several tests of film, and then after the film was developed it was studied under magnification, and frames were counted for a period of 2 to 3 seconds or for the full running time, and averages were taken.

Mr. Zapruder has stated that his camera was fully wound. Most of the others have stated their cameras were fully wound, so we were able to more or less eliminate the very slow time that occurs when the cameras are approximately run down, and all of these things were taken into consideration and were averaged.

The Zapruder camera was found to run at an average speed of 18.3 frames per second.

The Nix and Muchmore cameras were both found around 18.5 frames per second.

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Which should help when one wishes to attempt to compare potentially deleted frames from films.

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Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to ascertain the speed of the Presidential limousine at the time of the assassination?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; because we were able to determine the speed of the camera, and thereby accurately determine the length of time it takes for a specific number of frames to run through the camera at this 18.3 frames per second, and having located these frame positions in the street, we took the farthest distance point we had in the Zapruder film which was frame 161 through frame 313.

This was found to run elapsed time from the film standpoint which runs at 18.3 frames a second, runs for a total of 8.3 seconds.

This distance is 136.1 feet, and this can be calculated then to 11.2 miles per hour.

Mr. SPECTER. Is that a constant average speed or does that speed reflect any variations in the movement of the car?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is the overall average from 161 to 313. It does not mean that it was traveling constantly at 11.2, because it was more than likely going faster in some areas and slightly slower in some areas. It is only an average speed over the entire run.

Mr. DULLES. Over the entire run between what points?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Between frame 161 and 313.

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Rates up there about in the same category as calling LHO an "average" shot!

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I do believe that we may be getting close to the point of resolving exactly why/how the WC decided that they had best "fudge" a few frame#'s of the Z-flim onto Mr. West data block.

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David;

Hope that some of it is starting to either come together and/or make some sense now.

Chuck could not explain what it was all about when he released the altered survey data/vehicle speed info to Fetzer for publication.

Mainly because I did not explain it's significance to him.

Tom.

P.S. And yes, I am that sneaky too!

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Findings: On this composite the black lines are the locations of the front edge of the fender on consecutive frames as per available film . The lower single red mark is the frame where the headshot is first visible. The red lines between the black lines are my estimates of missing frames. When the film runs the missing frames give an appearance of smooth continuity. When properly placed in space on the composite the jerky leaps of speed at the missing frames is obvious.

(image)

John,

Nice work -- was the source for your above work a videotape-DVD presentation (based on a 23.97PAL - 29.97NTSC fps)?

David

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'Thomas H. Purvis' wrote:

David;

Hope that some of it is starting to either come together and/or make some sense now.

dgh: yes, coming together, reinforcing early recreations.

Chuck could not explain what it was all about when he released the altered survey data/vehicle speed info to Fetzer for publication.

Mainly because I did not explain it's significance to him.

Tom.

P.S. And yes, I am that sneaky too!

dgh: you, *sneaky* Pete? :)

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David, thank you. I used the Nix assassination sequence clip from

http://jfkmurderphotos.bravehost.com/photos.html

and extracted the frames with xnview. The first frame was very blurred so I left that out. Calling the first used frame frame one, it seems (to me) that frames

5, 11, 20, (21?), 22, 23, 25, 34, 38, 45

of the first 48 frames are missing. Four of these are bunched at the headshot, and there could be even another frame again missing. If this is correct then likely the full clip shows the limo stopping or nearly stopping at the headshot. It would be good if someone could check and confirm or debunk please.

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David, thank you. I used the Nix assassination sequence clip from

http://jfkmurderphotos.bravehost.com/photos.html

and extracted the frames with xnview. The first frame was very blurred so I left that out. Calling the first used frame frame one, it seems (to me) that frames

5, 11, 20, (21?), 22, 23, 25, 34, 38, 45

of the first 48 frames are missing. Four of these are bunched at the headshot, and there could be even another frame again missing. If this is correct then likely the full clip shows the limo stopping or nearly stopping at the headshot. It would be good if someone could check and confirm or debunk please.

Good catch, John.

While I admit that my "alteration jury" is still out, the prospect of removing frames is one that seems *very* plausible and could certainly have been done.

I have individual frames of the Nix film. I'm going to attempt to repeat your test and see if I get the same result.

For those that care, my source is 29.97 NTSC interleaved (DVD source). I have, by hand, removed the interlaced frames as well as duplicate (i.e. telecined) frames necessary to match frame rates. What remains are individual, full frames (aka Progressive video) that I can play at any framerate I choose.

What was the framerate of Nix's original camera? 16fps?

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David, thank you. I used the Nix assassination sequence clip from

http://jfkmurderphotos.bravehost.com/photos.html

and extracted the frames with xnview. The first frame was very blurred so I left that out. Calling the first used frame frame one, it seems (to me) that frames

5, 11, 20, (21?), 22, 23, 25, 34, 38, 45

of the first 48 frames are missing. Four of these are bunched at the headshot, and there could be even another frame again missing. If this is correct then likely the full clip shows the limo stopping or nearly stopping at the headshot. It would be good if someone could check and confirm or debunk please.

Good catch, John.

While I admit that my "alteration jury" is still out, the prospect of removing frames is one that seems *very* plausible and could certainly have been done.

I have individual frames of the Nix film. I'm going to attempt to repeat your test and see if I get the same result.

For those that care, my source is 29.97 NTSC interleaved (DVD source). I have, by hand, removed the interlaced frames as well as duplicate (i.e. telecined) frames necessary to match frame rates. What remains are individual, full frames (aka Progressive video) that I can play at any framerate I choose.

What was the framerate of Nix's original camera? 16fps?

If any of you guys can prove FRAME REMOVAL, no more proof of alteration is needed.

Jack

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If any of you guys can prove FRAME REMOVAL, no more proof of alteration is needed.

Jack

Agreed. As Ed O'Hagan said in another thread, either the film is altered or it isn't. I didn't agree with some of his other points, but I certainly agreed on this one.

One possible complication:

Using the front fender may bring too much perspective into play. That is to say, the fender starts to "vanish" as the limo moves out of his panning area toward the end of the sequence.

I'm going to attempt to use both the front fender *and* the centerpoint of the front wheel as a positional guide.

For those who know: In addition to the framerate of the Nix camera, what is the proper parlance for numbering the Nix frames? Is the very first frame (shot on Houston) N1, or is "N1" the Elm street sequence?

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Frank, I used the front of the fender at the line beween the dark panel and the light chrome bumper. As its blurry I used the thicker dark lines to mark this point. I understand from what Tom posted that the fully wound frame rate was about the same as the Z-camera. I don't know the usual numbering.

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Frank, I used the front of the fender at the line beween the dark panel and the light chrome bumper. As its blurry I used the thicker dark lines to mark this point. I understand from what Tom posted that the fully wound frame rate was about the same as the Z-camera. I don't know the usual numbering.

John -

Two questions:

1) What software are you using to make the panorama-style combined view?

2) How are you eliminating pan-tracking problems from skewing the results?

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Frank, any software that supports layering, transparencies and fine rotation will do the trick. I'm not sure what you mean with pan tracking problems. If this doesn't answer it please rephrase.

Place the first frame on the bottom of the pile. Make it opaque. Select the rest of the frames and hide them. Then select all frames and rotate so that the visible first frame is with the concrete thing Z stands on is level. Then deselect the bottom frame and make all the rest 50% transparent. The invert their colors.

Unhide frame two. Select all frames except the bottom one.

Where you have two colors, one of which is the inverse of the other and it's placed over each other with the bottom one opaque and the top 50% transparency you end up with a particular grey. This means that when you have the two images correctly aligned only that which is different will show as color. Credit me with this 'discovery' or technique development. When you have fine rotation capabilities it allows very exact alignment.

Place the stack with the second frame visible, inverted and 50% transparent over the bottom one. Use the more obvious lines like the concrete and the street to rotate (I find about 0.2 degree increments sufficient)By continually deselecting the visible one, hiding it, selecting the next one, making it visible, selecting it and all the ones above it and repeating thus for all the frames you end up with all the frames aligned as the first frame. Then the static objects like the ground and structures stay put and the moving ones go where they belong in relation to them.

Hope this answers the question. If you want more detail or followups don't hesitate to ask. I have logged the IDEA of using this process to create a new kind of security system where a continuous alternate digitised film frame using software to duplicate this process continuously in real time to create an extremely sensitive motion detector where as soon as a variable (set by operator) is flagged an alarm is activated. IOW a 'dumb' scalable system. No signals. This means that motion per se is not necessarily detected but differences, which no amount of crawling, blanking or jamming should overcome.

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Frank, any software that supports layering, transparencies and fine rotation will do the trick. I'm not sure what you mean with pan tracking problems. If this doesn't answer it please rephrase.

Place the first frame on the bottom of the pile. Make it opaque. Select the rest of the frames and hide them. Then select all frames and rotate so that the visible first frame is with the concrete thing Z stands on is level. Then deselect the bottom frame and make all the rest 50% transparent. The invert their colors.

Unhide frame two. Select all frames except the bottom one.

Where you have two colors, one of which is the inverse of the other and it's placed over each other with the bottom one opaque and the top 50% transparency you end up with a particular grey. This means that when you have the two images correctly aligned only that which is different will show as color. Credit me with this 'discovery' or technique development. When you have fine rotation capabilities it allows very exact alignment.

Place the stack with the second frame visible, inverted and 50% transparent over the bottom one. Use the more obvious lines like the concrete and the street to rotate (I find about 0.2 degree increments sufficient)By continually deselecting the visible one, hiding it, selecting the next one, making it visible, selecting it and all the ones above it and repeating thus for all the frames you end up with all the frames aligned as the first frame. Then the static objects like the ground and structures stay put and the moving ones go where they belong in relation to them.

Hope this answers the question. If you want more detail or followups don't hesitate to ask. I have logged the IDEA of using this process to create a new kind of security system where a continuous alternate digitised film frame using software to duplicate this process continuously in real time to create an extremely sensitive motion detector where as soon as a variable (set by operator) is flagged an alarm is activated. IOW a 'dumb' scalable system. No signals. This means that motion per se is not necessarily detected but differences, which no amount of crawling, blanking or jamming should overcome.

Hello John,

Yes. It answers my question quite nicely. You are, in effect, stabilizing the frames -- you do this by keeping the background stuff in the same alignment. This takes camera panning out of the equation.

(p.s. I like your security system idea. Your idea has given me another idea, but I need to understand how it could be used to measure relative "rate" of motion. Might have applications in a traffic monitoring system.)

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