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I maintain skepticism even with regards to my own work until it has rigorous scrutiny and confirmation . If this can be confirmed then relating it to the zfilm, limo speeds etc certainly promises exciting things. However it's not there yet.

In this gif the missing frames are replaced with a mix of the frames on either side. If you look at the woman walking her movements are now smoother. The limo looks a bit choppy as the replaced frames are composites of two which blurs them and the wheels and fender contrast stands out. However the limo seems to stop momentarily and it looks like the front of the limo 'dips'. By reinserting the frames this stretches the timeframe making this more noticable.

Edited by John Dolva
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I maintain skepticism even with regards to my own work until it has rigorous scrutiny and confirmation . If this can be confirmed then relating it to the zfilm, limo speeds etc certainly promises exciting things. However it's not there yet.

In this gif the missing frames are replaced with a mix of the frames on either side. If you look at the woman walking her movements are now smoother. The limo looks a bit choppy as the replaced frames are composites of two which blurs them and the wheels and fender contrast stands out. However the limo seems to stop momentarily and it looks like the front of the limo 'dips'. By reinserting the frames this stretches the timeframe making this more noticable.

And I am in total agreement!

Many times in attempting to unravel the various obfuscations, I thought one specific item was related to something.

However, when another item was unraveled, it presented a completely different light on the subject, as well as continued to open other doors of understanding.

Therefore, film alteration/potentially omitted frames, and vehicle speeds are an integral part of each other.

And, for that reason, others hopefully will determine the means to evaluate vehicle speed(s), and then a comparison of data can be made between seperate thought processes and how the answers were derived.

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I maintain skepticism even with regards to my own work until it has rigorous scrutiny and confirmation . If this can be confirmed then relating it to the zfilm, limo speeds etc certainly promises exciting things. However it's not there yet.

In this gif the missing frames are replaced with a mix of the frames on either side. If you look at the woman walking her movements are now smoother. The limo looks a bit choppy as the replaced frames are composites of two which blurs them and the wheels and fender contrast stands out. However the limo seems to stop momentarily and it looks like the front of the limo 'dips'. By reinserting the frames this stretches the timeframe making this more noticable.

John,

Can you replace the frames you duplicated with black and/or white frames? Post same?

David

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Yes, I'll do that. Meanwhile, ramping the rate up to the 40 fps that Orville said* he had the camera set to run at, the movement of the girl looks more normal, it takes away the floaty quality and just looks better. and then calculating the speed of the limousine in the 8 frame period after the headshot a preliminary speed of 3.2 mph is arrived at. As distance measurement I estimate tyre width which has a error, also there is blur which has an error. More double checking (by others as well) will reveal errors and make an estimate more reliable.

* http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol24_0279a.htm

EDIT a few calcualtions later and widely differing end results. I have to start afresh after sleep. For now discount speed finding from me. Hopefully someone else will attempt as well.

Edited by John Dolva
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Yes, I'll do that. Meanwhile, ramping the rate up to the 40 fps that Orville said* he had the camera set to run at, the movement of the girl looks more normal, it takes away the floaty quality and just looks better. and then calculating the speed of the limousine in the 8 frame period after the headshot a preliminary speed of 3.2 mph is arrived at. As distance measurement I estimate tyre width which has a error, also there is blur which has an error. More double checking (by others as well) will reveal errors and make an estimate more reliable.

* http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol24_0279a.htm

EDIT a few calcualtions later and widely differing end results. I have to start afresh after sleep. For now discount speed finding from me. Hopefully someone else will attempt as well.

in the meantime:

(image)

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I maintain skepticism even with regards to my own work until it has rigorous scrutiny and confirmation . If this can be confirmed then relating it to the zfilm, limo speeds etc certainly promises exciting things. However it's not there yet.

In this gif the missing frames are replaced with a mix of the frames on either side. If you look at the woman walking her movements are now smoother. The limo looks a bit choppy as the replaced frames are composites of two which blurs them and the wheels and fender contrast stands out. However the limo seems to stop momentarily and it looks like the front of the limo 'dips'. By reinserting the frames this stretches the timeframe making this more noticable.

John...THANKS for your animated gif! It makes sense of Toni Foster's WALK and sudden

jump to her right at the end. Zapruder makes it appear that she is RUNNING, but your

gif of Nix LOOKS LIKE A NORMAL FAST WALK. The comparison is striking!

Her jump is much faster than her walk, and must represent the head shot timing.

Also note Bill Newman's sudden movement which coincides with Foster's!

Good work!

Jack

Edited by Jack White
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Hi Jack, a full size gif (5+ meg) is here

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/yanndee/c.gif

It would be good to get a number of opinions about how it looks speed wise. Gary has informed me that the 40 is a misread by Orville regarding film not camera speed. I've set this gif to run at 54 ms or 18.5 fps. The black flashes are frames inserted where I think frames are missing. More later.

As well as the reactions of Newman and Toni, the inside right motorcycle cop slows dramatically. Wonder what his testimony was?

Edited by John Dolva
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Tom "I do believe that we may be getting close to the point of resolving exactly why/how the WC decided that they had best "fudge" a few frame#'s of the Z-flim onto Mr. West data block."

"Q: From your examination of the Zapruder film and the work you did at Dealey Plaza were you able to ascertain the average speed of the Presidential limousine, the President's limousine, while it was on Elm Street?

A: Yes. The average speed was ascertained in one specific --

MR. DYMOND: We object unless this witness ascertained the speed of it.

BY MR. OSER:

Q: Did you examine the Zapruder film and ascertain the average speed of the President's limousine on Elm Street yourself, sir?

A: Yes, I did, yes.

Q: How did you go about this, sir, what was the result of your examination?

A: This complete finding was based on a determination first of the average speed of the Zapruder camera, and a determination of the speed with which the sequence of events took place based on the speed of the camera, then during the re-enactment, measurements were made on Elm Street from the specific frame numbers, once they were ascertained, and I took the frame, the frames from Frame 161 to Frame 313 and determined -- it took the distance, computed this base don the number of frames involved, the speed at which the Zapruder camera operated, found that the average speed over that period as between 161, Frame 161 and Frame 313 was 11.2 miles per hour."

The average result with the nix at 18.5 is immediately following the headshot

x = 1

4.2 = 0.378

11.1 =x mph

1.00000 Feet Per Second = 0.68182 Miles Per Hour

7.57 mph between the 8 frames following the headshot frame WC24

Therefore: what can one say about the speed as derived from the zfilm? How does it relate to missing frames in the zfilm? Obviously the limo can't go from 11.2 mph to 7.6 mph in 1/10th of a second. Nor can it go from 0 to 7.6 in 1/10th of a second. I'm inclined to believe a slowdown leading up to the headshot and just before the headhot a rapid deceleration but not a stop by a momentary depression of the brake pedal.

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During the same time as the above calculation the z film shows a limo speed of 7.12 mph. This is more exact and the nix figure would be well within error. So the two films appear to show the same speed.

Edited by John Dolva
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Hi Jack, a full size gif (5+ meg) is here

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/yanndee/c.gif

It would be good to get a number of opinions about how it looks speed wise. Gary has informed me that the 40 is a misread by Orville regarding film not camera speed. I've set this gif to run at 54 ms or 18.5 fps. The black flashes are frames inserted where I think frames are missing. More later.

As well as the reactions of Newman and Toni, the inside right motorcycle cop slows dramatically. Wonder what his testimony was?

John...is there a way to use your 49-frame graphic to show the elapsed time (therefore speed)

between each frame? Pictures are easier to comprehend than words. I do not quite grasp where

the slowdown occurs just from words, but a speed overlaid on each frame would make it clearer.

Jack

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John...thanks for the full size animation...VERY HANDY TOOL!

I played it back and forth in QuickTime many times, especially

watching Zapruder and Sitzman. As the limousine moves

completely acrossframe, Zapruder DOES NOT MOVE TO PAN

WITH THE LIMO. Instead, Sitzman puts her right arm around

Zapruder's head.

Jack

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Guest Mark Valenti
During the same time as the above calculation the z film shows a limo speed of 7.12 mph. This is more exact and the nix figure would be well within error. So the two films appear to show the same speed.

John,

Just wanted to say I think your work has been tremendously interesting and worthwhile. It's always helpful to see these things in new ways.

MV

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Thank you. I appreciate the feedback.

Jack, I don't know if the resolution is sufficient to be able to say what Siezman or Zapruder is doing with certainty. I see him possibly reacting to the headshot. Also the light may be striking shiny surfaces on the camera in different ways. That perhaps is an example of how my belief that Zapruder was there, in the way he said, coloring my perception.

"a way to use your 49-frame graphic to show the elapsed time (therefore speed)

between each frame?"

Jack, I'm not sure what you mean but here's the estimated speed for a part of the sequence following the headshot. A similar thing for the zfilm which would end up as a comparison between the two, could be a very simple way of deducing gaps in either film.

(image)

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No, it's just an average over that set of frames, Jack. The Z speed calculation was also over (as close as I could see) the same 8 frames. After that there seems to be a slight speed increase. And before the headshot a slowing down.

EDIT this might be of interest too: The front of the limo seems to move up and down a bit more after the headshot. That could be because of a dip when breaking, a rise when accelerating, movements in the car or Hill jumping on to it. Here's a graph of the lower part of the front fender movements. Perhaps a better copy of the film will allow a more exact view.

(image)

Edited by John Dolva
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