Clothing Examination--JFK's Shirt

[Thomas H. Purvis]

some further considerations,

because Kennedys shirt is tailored (thank you for that information) one can reasonably assume it fits Kennedy's particular antomy faithfully.

Because he was who he was and because he had a dresser who helped him, and various other attendees one can reasonably assume he was dressed with care. IOW, the tie/collar , and shirt tail and other features were in place.

I understand that for some reason his right shoulder was significantly more muscular than the left. Tom, I believe you mentioned something to that effect at another time?

_____________________

So, unless I've missed something of importance, I think that might be enough to firstly develop an idea of how the shirt in the area of the hole and the corresponding area on the body should line up, and secondly help to evaluate the results.

I'll pause at this time to allow those who wish to develop their own ideas, to critique up to this point, and to develop my own suggestion. Thak you for your attention. The imagery is there now, and the things to take into account are listed on the previous three or so pages.. Hopefully those who see errors will avoid timewaste by pointing them out now.

I understand that for some reason his right shoulder was significantly more muscular than the left. Tom, I believe you mentioned something to that effect at another time

All of JFK's upper torso became significantly larger than normal as a result of the steroids which he was constantly taking as a result of his addison's disease.

This is thoroughly documented in many other locations which deal with his life and the combination steroids & speed which "Dr. Feelgood" was giving to him.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

What a life. Thank you for sharing that Tom. Is that before or after 'the problem'? They would have had a story well worth hearing first hand.

It was after, and yes, my limited cerebral capability could not think of nearly all of the questions one should ask.

I most certainly learned a great respect for those persons who placed their life on the line each and every mission. From lift off to recovery.

Lovell told me that the standing joke for when they got a "new guy" astronaut was:

"Doesn't it make you feel good to know that everything under your ass was built by the lowest bidder".

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Perhaps you mean 'blind faith', Tom? Faith itself can be a good thing.

________________

With some understanding of the shirt. The shirt has to go on the body.

Initially, when the blood was coagulating and imprinting a pattern on the body, and later, when the autopsy pictures were taken.

The left side autopsy photo shows a gaping tracheotomy inciscion. A single scalpel swipe is sufficient. Look at the overall head neck configuration and consider the dead body lying flat on its back, not even a soft mattress to support and mould to body contours. Very unlikely this body has ever lain like this before. The neck slumps back opening the inciscion.

A suggestion )image) of how with the gaping wound closed, the neck stretches forward, lengthening the distance between any point on the back and the hairline. (the jaw has also dropped, so I closed that and shifted it out a bit.)

The left side autopsy photo shows a gaping tracheotomy inciscion. A single scalpel swipe is sufficient

Dr. PERRY - Yes. Once the transverse incision through the skin and subcutaneous tissues was made, it was necessary to separate the strap muscles covering the anterior muscles of the windpipe and thyroid. At that point the trachea was noted to be deviated slightly to the left and I found it necessary to sever the exterior strap muscles on the other side to reach the trachea.

I noticed a small ragged laceration of the trachea on the anterior lateral right side. I could see the endotracheal tube which had been placed by Dr. Carrico in the wound, but there was evidence of air and blood around the tube because I noted the cuff was just above the injury to the trachea.

I noticed a small ragged laceration of the trachea on the anterior lateral right side. I could see the endotracheal tube which had been placed by Dr. Carrico in the wound, but there was evidence of air and blood around the tube because I noted the cuff was just above the injury to the trachea.

At that point I was down in the trachea. Once the trachea had been exposed I took the knife and incised the windpipe at the point of the bullet injury. And asked that the endotracheal tube previously placed by Dr. Carrico be withdrawn slightly so I could insert a tracheotomy tube at this level. This was effected and attached to an anesthesia machine which had been brought down by Dr. Jenkins and Dr. Giesecke for better control of circulation.

1. Perhaps when one takes into consideration the entire aspects of the surgical procedure, then the actual size of the tracheotomy incision just may have a different perspective.

Dr. Perry was in fact conducting a form of exploratory surgery in attempting to find the tracheal damage, and, one does not normally go into the extent of having to cut the strap muscles of the neck just to do a trach incision.

Additionally, as verified by the autopsy report, Dr. Perry made the wound to accomodate the insertion of the trach tube into the existing laceration of the trachea, which was on the right side, rather than creating a new entry point.

2. Lastly, as with many of the JFK photo's, there has been no verification as to whether they represent "pre-examination" or "post-examination" photo's.

And, the autopsy surgeons certainly could not recall as they never got to see the original photographs until considerably later.

Therefore, were one to assume that the autopsy photo represents the condition of JFK AFTER the autopsy surgeons had also completed their probing and plundering around in the neck/trachea incision, then just perhaps we are all being lead on another rabbit hunt based on unverifiable evidence.

[Ashton Gray]

Perhaps you mean 'blind faith', Tom? Faith itself can be a good thing.

________________

With some understanding of the shirt. The shirt has to go on the body.

Initially, when the blood was coagulating and imprinting a pattern on the body, and later, when the autopsy pictures were taken.

The left side autopsy photo shows a gaping tracheotomy inciscion. A single scalpel swipe is sufficient. Look at the overall head neck configuration and consider the dead body lying flat on its back, not even a soft mattress to support and mould to body contours. Very unlikely this body has ever lain like this before. The neck slumps back opening the inciscion.

A suggestion )image) of how with the gaping wound closed, the neck stretches forward, lengthening the distance between any point on the back and the hairline. (the jaw has also dropped, so I closed that and shifted it out a bit.)

The left side autopsy photo shows a gaping tracheotomy inciscion. A single scalpel swipe is sufficient

Dr. PERRY - Yes. Once the transverse incision through the skin and subcutaneous tissues was made, it was necessary to separate the strap muscles covering the anterior muscles of the windpipe and thyroid. At that point the trachea was noted to be deviated slightly to the left and I found it necessary to sever the exterior strap muscles on the other side to reach the trachea.

I noticed a small ragged laceration of the trachea on the anterior lateral right side. I could see the endotracheal tube which had been placed by Dr. Carrico in the wound, but there was evidence of air and blood around the tube because I noted the cuff was just above the injury to the trachea.

I noticed a small ragged laceration of the trachea on the anterior lateral right side. I could see the endotracheal tube which had been placed by Dr. Carrico in the wound, but there was evidence of air and blood around the tube because I noted the cuff was just above the injury to the trachea.

At that point I was down in the trachea. Once the trachea had been exposed I took the knife and incised the windpipe at the point of the bullet injury. And asked that the endotracheal tube previously placed by Dr. Carrico be withdrawn slightly so I could insert a tracheotomy tube at this level. This was effected and attached to an anesthesia machine which had been brought down by Dr. Jenkins and Dr. Giesecke for better control of circulation.

1. Perhaps when one takes into consideration the entire aspects of the surgical procedure, then the actual size of the tracheotomy incision just may have a different perspective.

• One, two! One, two! And through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
  He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back.
  —Lewis Carroll
  

Malcolm Perry clearly did every "justified" thing he could dream up to destroy all evidence of the throat wound—which conveniently was precisely where he could do that very thing.

Yes, faith can be a good thing. God and the CIA both work in mysterious ways.

Ashton Gray

[John Dolva]

We have two views of the tracheotomy incision.

(image)

Sretching the opening closed:

(gif)

_________________

Except>> that while skin is flexible it's not stretchable. Put two fingers on the back of the hand and try to stretch the skin apart.

So this gap which easily matches the two edges comes about because of large scale tissue moving like if the head was tilted.

The first incision is sufficient to access the deeper areas, surgeons simply use spreaders, in this instance, tlting the head back is probably sufficient. And with the trunk on a hard surface, this tiltback could probably be automatically there.

Edited January 20, 2007 by John Dolva

[John Dolva]

another 'closing the gap' image. One can see features within the wound moving together.

So, tilting the head forward closes this gap and elongates the back of the neck. This sort of movement is accomodated for by loose skin that creases and smooths out.

Edited January 20, 2007 by John Dolva

[Thomas H. Purvis]

another 'closing the gap' image. One can see features within the wound moving together.

So, tilting the head forward closes this gap and elongates the back of the neck. This sort of movement is accomodated for by loose skin that creases and smooths out.

As usual, excellent work John;

I had often wanted to do something such as what you have demonstrated, in order to get a "picture" of what the throat wound appeared exactly like prior to Dr. Perry's incision.

The small indication (arrow) along the bottom alignment of the wound is/was the wound and when you close it, as moving the head forward, it gives a much better idea as to what the damage may have appeared like to the Parkland personnel.

Of course, without a measurement reference, we are still having to utilize the "wag" theory for determination of size.

Here is what a normal 6.5mm Carcano exit wound, in which the projectile did not strike any bone, would appear like.

[John Dolva]

Thank you Tom.

What I did was take a depth map (z map, depth buffer, z buffer (keyword search)) of a throat and used it to create a depth map that is rotated to the orientation of the photo and then used that small area of the pgoto as texture or surface image. Then in 3d program rotated that so the view was head on to the inciscion. Then closing the gap was a simple matter of pushing the edges together.

_____________________

Part of the difficulty (for me) is not having a proper understanding of how Kennedy's body is posed in the back autopsy photo.

I think only a small part of the photo is oriented in a way so that the items on it are not distorted or twisted out of shape.

Part of the solution is recognising the trapezoid muscle as is. Further, on the autopsy photo we look partially down on the top of the shoulder.

Here's a contribution to resolve this. The top image/drawing is a suggestion of roughly how his body was for this photo. The bottom image/drawing is the small part mentioned above oriented on a symmetrical drawing of the anatomy of the back.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Thank you Tom.

What I did was take a depth map (z map, depth buffer, z buffer (keyword search)) of a throat and used it to create a depth map that is rotated to the orientation of the photo and then used that small area of the pgoto as texture or surface image. Then in 3d program rotated that so the view was head on to the inciscion. Then closing the gap was a simple matter of pushing the edges together.

_____________________

Part of the difficulty (for me) is not having a proper understanding of how Kennedy's body is posed in the back autopsy photo.

I think only a small part of the photo is oriented in a way so that the items on it are not distorted or twisted out of shape.

Part of the solution is recognising the trapezoid muscle as is. Further, on the autopsy photo we look partially down on the top of the shoulder.

Here's a contribution to resolve this. The top image/drawing is a suggestion of roughly how his body was for this photo. The bottom image/drawing is the small part mentioned above oriented on a symmetrical drawing of the anatomy of the back.

It would appear that you have it oriented quite correctly.

From what little I can recall, I merely have that he was laying on his left side/left shoulder.

This all appears to be supported by the manner in which his head is "drooped" down towards his left shoulder and obviously leaning backwards which creates the neck wrinkles.

I believe the hand on his shoulder was there to "balance" and keep the body from rolling on over while the photo was taken.

Which would mean that the person in the background is standing erect with his right hand on the shoulder.

Lastly, the cleansed/washed hair also appears to want to comply with the laws of gravity, as the bottom portion of the hair appears to be in the hanging straight down mode.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Thank you Tom.

What I did was take a depth map (z map, depth buffer, z buffer (keyword search)) of a throat and used it to create a depth map that is rotated to the orientation of the photo and then used that small area of the pgoto as texture or surface image. Then in 3d program rotated that so the view was head on to the inciscion. Then closing the gap was a simple matter of pushing the edges together.

_____________________

Part of the difficulty (for me) is not having a proper understanding of how Kennedy's body is posed in the back autopsy photo.

I think only a small part of the photo is oriented in a way so that the items on it are not distorted or twisted out of shape.

Part of the solution is recognising the trapezoid muscle as is. Further, on the autopsy photo we look partially down on the top of the shoulder.

Here's a contribution to resolve this. The top image/drawing is a suggestion of roughly how his body was for this photo. The bottom image/drawing is the small part mentioned above oriented on a symmetrical drawing of the anatomy of the back.

It would appear that you have it oriented quite correctly.

From what little I can recall, I merely have that he was laying on his left side/left shoulder.

This all appears to be supported by the manner in which his head is "drooped" down towards his left shoulder and obviously leaning backwards which creates the neck wrinkles.

I believe the hand on his shoulder was there to "balance" and keep the body from rolling on over while the photo was taken.

Which would mean that the person in the background is standing erect with his right hand on the shoulder.

Lastly, the cleansed/washed hair also appears to want to comply with the laws of gravity, as the bottom portion of the hair appears to be in the hanging straight down mode.

Forgot to add:

In event you will look at the autopsy photo's of examination of the head, you will find the head in the virtual same exact position with virtually the exact same wrinkle lines on the neck.

Additionally, one can easily distinguish the vertically standing autopsy surgeon in the background who has his right hand onto the skull of JFK.

[John Dolva]

Yes, good observations.

The area of the shoulder photo that does not have distances distorted by contour changes is really very small. Currently I'm working on a kind of rudimantery 'fingerprint match point analysis' adapted to the patterns on the shirt and the back.

While looking at the autopsy photos and inspired by Marks 3D topic here's an interesting gif giving a sense of depth to a pair of photos.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/yanndee/a.gif

Edited January 21, 2007 by John Dolva

[Robin Unger]

Large front of shirt photo:

[Robin Unger]

Large back of shirt photo:

[Robin Unger]

quote:

Additionally, one can easily distinguish the vertically standing autopsy surgeon in the background who has his right hand onto the skull of JFK.

I agree.

Kennedy is propped up on his left side, and there is a doctor standing behind kennedy's head with his right hand on kennedy's shoulder.

His full length coat can clearly be seen.

[Ashton Gray]

Thanks for the photos, Robin.

Ashton