Bradley Ayers' THE ZENITH SECRET is out..

[William Kelly]

Thanks for that JR, I missed it earlier.

BK

Bill,

I'd like to add another dimension here which may or may not be of interest. For some time I have been working an angle that was showing quite some promise. It revolved around right-wing writer Ralph de Toledano.

Toledano was originally a Nixon supporter but found himself working on the Goldwater campaign for president. He had complete access and ended up writing very favorable reports on the Arizona senator.

Toledano knew about the inner campaign workings as well as all the Goldwater aides at the time. Toledano allegedly also knew about the relationship between Goldwater and David Morales.

Unfortunately, this all came to a screeching halt when Toledano died earlier this year. He was 90. Toledano has several children who might be worth tracking down. Difficult task from the other side of the planet.

As a curiosity, Toledano was interviewed by Irv Kupcinet in 1962. From all reports, a rather fiery encounter. I have been unsuccessful in securing a transcript.

I have no doubts that Ayers' information is at least based in some fact. I submit 'Pearl' was an alias.

FWIW.

James

[Tim Gratz]

Bill wrote:

I mean the New Yorker pays Jeff Morley and David Talbot, two aces four you

Morley of course broke perhaps the BIGGEST story re the assassination in years, a story yet to play itself out.

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

We have here someone who masquerades as a JFK researcher, yet refuses to expend the requisite effort needed to conduct actual research, even when doing so might help to underscore the points he tries to make here.

Tim Gratz has made much of the Pearl story, and how its lack of sourcing in Brad Ayers' book should undermine the veracity of all that the book contains. Yet, beyond simply name calling the author [a "xxxx"] and producing a single witness of questionable credibility herself, Tim hasn't bothered to do the slightest research on this topic. The following may illustrate just how egregiously lacking are Tim's research skills and his own credibility on this topic.

Tim first denounced Brad Ayers as a "xxxx" on October 11, based solely upon Ms. Eisenhower's word, in a post that also contained the following:

"Mrs. Eisenhower was the long time chief of staff to BG, including during the period in question."

There are only two assertions contained in that sentence, offered no doubt to bolster his witness' unique position to determine what was and wasn't true. Yet these two assertions are both wrong.

First, one will encounter a variety of descriptors for Ms. Eisenhower's relationship with Goldwater. Among the most common are "secretary," "aide" and "administrative assistant." One can labour long and hard without finding a reference to her as Goldwater's "Chief of Staff," because she never was that. [There can be little doubt that she was a formidable and trusted asset to Goldwater, but the fact remains that Tim's characterization of her role is, simply put, wrong.]

Second, so too is the other assertion made in Tim's introduction, that Ms. Eisenhower served Goldwater in that capacity in 1963. It is hard to locate details of Ms. Eisenhower's tenure with the Senator, but not impossible. An obscure little journal dedicated to archivists and their concerns stated that Ms. Eisenhower had served as Goldwater's right hand for 32 years. Given that he died in 1998, simple math would suggest that she didn't join Goldwater's staff until 1966, or three years after the incident related by Pearl.

These two points may not demolish what Ms. Eisenhower has to say, but they are indicative of the sloppy, agenda-driven contributions of our faux-researcher. One can argue any given set of facts any number of ways, but if one can never trust the "facts" as presented to be accurate, it says much about the one who presents them. "Sloppy" is the most charitable characterization, not the least.

In his usual tone of high mockery, Tim has badgered Bill Kelly and me repeatedly regarding the Pearl story. Most recently, he has semi-astutely observed something, yet refrained from expending the slightest effort in determining whether it is true:

Ayers claims that Pearl's father died some time in 1991. Presumably there would be a newspaper obituary if he had been such an important member of BG's staff for so many years. I assume Ayers must have researched that! (If Pearl existed that is.)

Sadly for Tim, there is just such an obituary, which Ayers presumably did research, but which Tim demonstrably did not.

The news on this is not good for Tim, particularly given his unquestioning life-long slavishness to the Republican Party. For you see, this candidate for Pearl's "daddy" was a life-long power broker within the Party, and for reasons that will soon become all too clear, examining his background reveals that he might have been precisely the man to whom Ayers alluded. [All of which Tim could have discovered for himself were he more inclined to conduct actual research than merely lob drive-by smears at those who do.]

Here is the man's resume:

Dec. 20, 1927 - Born, Enid, Oklahoma

1946-48 - U.S. Army

1948-53 - University of Arizona (L.L.B.)

1953-54 - Assistant Attorney General of Arizona

1955-59 - Administrative Assistant to U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater

1959-69 - Member, Law Firm of Dunseath, Stubb and Burch of Tucson, Arizona

1963-64 - Deputy Director, Goldwater for President Campaign

1964-65 - Chairman, Republican National Committee

1968 - Manager, Goldwater for Senate Campaign

1969-70 - Member, Arizona Board of Regents

1969-74 - Chairman, Federal Communications Commission

Feb.-Dec. 1974 - Counsellor to Presidents Nixon and Ford

1975-present - Member, Law Firm of Pierson, Ball and Dowd, Washington, D.C.

1980 - Chief of Staff, George Bush Vice Presidential Campaign and Senior Advisor to the Reagan-Bush Committee

Our candidate's name was Dean Burch. While I have found nothing to indicate that he specialized in any type of outreach to the Mexican-American community on Goldwater's behalf, his papers do contain a subject folder marked "Latinos." The holdings of his papers are stored at the Gerald Ford library, and can be viewed here:

http://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/library/g...20-%20Files.htm

Just as one might expect, Dean Burch did die in 1991, and he left behind three children, including two daughters. His obituary, as it ran in the New York Times, can be located here:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...75BC0A967958260

Dean Burch, Presidential Adviser And F.C.C. Chairman, Dies at 63

By ERIC PACE

Published: August 5, 1991

Dean Burch, chairman of the Federal Communications Commission from 1969 to 1974 and of the Republican National Committee in 1964 and 1965, died yesterday at his home in Potomac, Md. He was 63 years old.

Mr. Burch died of bladder cancer, said his son, Dean A. Burch.

In April Mr. Burch, already ailing, was visited at his home by President Bush, on whose 1980 vice presidential campaign he had served as chief of staff.

From 1987 until his death, Mr. Burch was director general of Intelsat, the global satellite consortium that runs a communications network in which 121 nations participate. In the preceding decades, he was a telecommunications lawyer, political adviser and lobbyist.

White House Counselor

Mr. Burch was the White House political counselor in the last months of the Nixon Administration in 1974, and during the early months of the Ford Administration.

Earlier, he was an aide to Senator Barry Goldwater, Republican of Arizona, and helped run his unsuccessful campaign for the Presidency in 1964.

Mr. Burch was named chairman of the F.C.C. by President Richard M. Nixon and while there was influential in improving television programming for children. As John J. O'Connor, the television critic for The New York Times, wrote later, Mr. Burch, "closely associated with Senator Goldwater's conservative wing, began making tough public speeches on the need for more and better programs for young audiences."

"The networks inevitably took note," Mr. O'Connor said, "and one of the first results was a supplementation of the 'kid-vid' schedule on Saturday morning."

Under Mr. Burch, the F.C.C. also carried out an influential study of whether one company should be allowed to own a daily newspaper and a television station in the same city. Based on the study's findings, the agency in 1975, after Mr. Burch had stepped down as chairman, unanimously prohibited the formation of new combinations of newspapers and broadcasting stations.

Mr. Burch was handpicked to become Republican National Chairman by Senator Goldwater. But Mr. Goldwater's influence in the party waned after his defeat by Lyndon B. Johnson in the 1964 election, in which other Republican candidates also did poorly. Mr. Burch was eventually replaced as chairman after party moderates insisted that the party needed a "new look."

Roy Dean Burch was born Dec. 20, 1927, in Enid, Okla., to Bert A. Burch and the former Leola Atkisson. He earned a Bachelor of Laws degree from the University of Arizona in 1953, was legislative and administrative assistant to Senator Goldwater from 1955 to 1959 and managed Mr. Goldwater's successful 1968 campaign to return to the Senate after giving up his seat to run for President.

He was a partner in the law firm of Dunseath, Stubbs & Burch in Tucson, Ariz., from 1959 to 1963 and from 1965 to 1969, and a partner in the law firm of Pierson, Ball & Dowd in Washington from 1975 to 1987.

Mr. Burch is survived by his wife, the former Patricia Meeks, whom he married in 1961; two daughters, Shelly Burch Bennett of Orlando, Fla., and Dianne Ruth Burch Butterfield of Arlington, Va.; his son, a sports marketing executive with a Washington radio station, and a grandson.

Tim has repeatedly mocked the assertion Ayers attributed to Pearl, that her father was an honourable man. Yet these are precisely the words employed by Burch's daughter, Shelly Burch Bennett, in describing her late father, as located here:

http://www.talkinbroadway.com/regional/seattle/se270.html

"I was born in Tucson, where I also grew up. My Dad, Dean Burch was a protégé of Goldwater's, so we were very Republican. He was Chairman of the Republican Party in 1964, and he actually ran Goldwater's campaign. We lived in Washington, D.C. for that year. The party, I think - and he would have said - has changed quite a bit since then; my father was the most honorable man alive, just full of so much integrity and honesty."

Thus far, Dean Burch meets all the criteria in our hunt for "Pearl's father."

But, of course, in order to demonstrate that Burch was at any nexus that included moving Mob/CIA money around, it would be helpful to demonstrate that Burch was surrounded by members of either group, to the extent that they are actually distinguishable from each other, which I've long thought redundant.

Tim has alleged that Goldwater was a "straight arrow" uncontaminated by any Mob affiliations. I have already posted evidence to the contrary, without any comment from Tim, which should not cause anyone here great surprise. Just to re-affirm those connections, the following can be found at:

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2006-10-19/...ater-uncut/full

"Another omission in the HBO documentary is Senator Goldwater's connections to various mobsters, and those who had dealings with them. Many of these associations have been well-documented before, first in 1963 in Ed Reid and Ovid Demaris' classic account of mob influence in Vegas, The Green Felt Jungle, and later in the now-famous Arizona Project, a series of articles by members of the Investigative Reporters and Editors organization detailing the influence of organized crime here. The latter was brought on by the execution of Arizona Republic reporter Don Bolles in 1976, and it raised the ethics bar for all politicians when it came to dealing with their shadier constituents.

"Many of the facts were undisputed by Goldwater himself, though he definitely disputed the suggestion that he was "tied" to organized crime. Goldwater was friendly with mobster Gus Greenbaum, who took over the management of Las Vegas' Flamingo Hotel after the 1947 assassination of Bugsy Siegel in Beverly Hills. Greenbaum took the Flamingo out of the red into the black, and later went on to successfully manage the Riviera. But when Greenbaum, a lieutenant of Meyer Lansky's, began skimming more than his allotted share, his days were numbered. On December 3, 1958, both he and his wife's corpses were discovered in their Phoenix home, their throats slashed with a butcher knife from their own kitchen.

"Goldwater attended Greenbaum's funeral, a gesture that boggles the mind almost 50 years later. Can you imagine, for instance, Senator John McCain attending the funeral of Salvatore "Sammy the Bull" Gravano (even if he knew Gravano), whenever that occurs? This was Goldwater's rationalization in his '88 memoir:

"Greenbaum had operated a Phoenix grocery store before taking over a Las Vegas casino. We'd met him at various civic functions. He was, after all, a local resident."

"It's true that Goldwater didn't need the mob. He was by then an icon in Arizona. But he was not above giving or taking favors, monetary or otherwise, from his underworld amigos. For instance, he was Greenbaum's guest in Vegas, where he was known as "a real swinger," according to the Reid/Demaris book. And Greenbaum donated lots of money to Harry Rosenzweig, in support of the 1949 Charter Government ticket, of which Goldwater was a part. Interestingly, the Valley National Bank, of which Goldwater's brother Bob was a director, helped finance the Flamingo's construction.

"The senator was also acquainted with "Fat Willie" Bioff, who lived in Phoenix under the name William Nelson, though people knew who he really was: a mobster from L.A. who busted unions for the Hollywood studios, testified against members of the Capone gang, then relocated to Arizona, eventually going to work for Gus Greenbaum at the Flamingo. Goldwater gave Bioff and his wife a ride back to Phoenix from Las Vegas in the senator's private plane once. And Bioff, a Goldwater admirer, donated $5,000 to Goldwater's first Senate campaign through Harry Rosenzweig, and also lent Rosenzweig 10 grand at one point before six sticks of dynamite exploded beneath Bioff's new pickup truck with him in it in 1955 - a little present from those Bioff ratted out, perhaps. Here, too, Goldwater attended the funeral, oblivious to any negative assumptions.

"I don't think it was abnormal for Senator Goldwater, or his senior colleague Senator [Carl] Hayden, to have come in contact with so-called nefarious characters," asserts Jack August, director of the Arizona Historical Foundation and author of Vision in the Desert: Carl Hayden and Hydropolitics in the American Southwest. "Was money good money or bad money - who really knows? Campaign finance laws were so much looser then."

"August warns against applying the standards of today to a half-century ago. These contacts did cause Goldwater some grief, especially after the publication of The Green Felt Jungle, but it was really the Arizona Project that changed the way the mob was viewed in Arizona.

"Goldwater was concerned enough by the Arizona Project to keep an extensive file of news clippings and notes on its activities, and he commissioned at least one poll on the subject, which concluded that his base of support in the state had not been eroded by the IRE's linking him to a rogues' gallery of hoods.

"He was associated with other underworld figures besides Greenbaum and Bioff. In 1971, Goldwater signed a letter written on his official stationery endorsing a land-fraud scheme concocted by wheeler-dealer Ned "the Godfather" Warren, though Goldwater later denied any knowledge of Warren or the scheme. There was the revelation that Goldwater had interceded on behalf of convicted gambling boss Clarence Newman, who also happened to be an old Goldwater pal, to help him secure better prison digs. And Goldwater's best friend, jeweler and Arizona GOP Chairman Rosenzweig, was linked to prostitution and gambling.

"Unsavory charges also surfaced concerning Goldwater's brother Bob, and the stake he held in the Arrowhead Ranch citrus groves, though this wasn't really an organized crime connection. IRE reporters discovered that illegal aliens were used as labor, paid substandard wages and kept in primitive conditions. Border Patrol raids on the groves regularly netted illegals working there. When a United Farm Workers member confronted Senator Goldwater about the aliens used on his brother's farm, Goldwater's response was stinging.

"My brother is over 21, and he knows what he's doing," Goldwater's quoted as saying in a 1977 New West article. "If you people [Mexican-Americans] would get off your butts and go to work, he wouldn't have to hire [Mexican] nationals."

"There's no reason to believe that Goldwater was in any way connected to the murder of Don Bolles, but Bolles' killer, John Adamson, lured Bolles to the Clarendon Hotel on the fateful day of June 2, 1976, with a bogus tale regarding Goldwater corruption. And speculation concerning Goldwater's involvement was so intense following the slaying that the senator was forced to issue a statement on June 15 denying any link to Bolles' murder or to the mob in general.

"However, Goldwater did know Phoenix attorney Neal Roberts, a pal of John Adamson's, who met with Adamson immediately before and shortly after the bomb beneath Bolles' car exploded and fatally wounded the reporter in the Clarendon parking lot. Roberts' ex-wife alleged that she overheard a telephone conversation between Roberts and Goldwater, with Goldwater stating, "What the hell's going on, how far is this going to go, and how much is it going to cost to shut people up?" Phoenix police questioned Goldwater about this phone confab, and Goldwater said it was bullxxxx. End of story?

"This was one of the topics tackled by New Times staff writer Paul Rubin in a 10-year anniversary opus on the Bolles killing that ran in 1986. Rubin's reporting uncovered the fact that the Phoenix Police Department conveniently buried a file on Goldwater that might have explained the connection between Roberts and Goldwater. The implication was not that Goldwater had something to do with Bolles' demise, but that he and Roberts were involved in other activities that they didn't want divulged."

As for a CIA component within the Goldwater camp, one needn't look too far to find precisely such a person. Oddly enough, it is a man who actually both confessed and denied that he had been the "Deep Throat" who fed stories to the Washington Post during Watergate. Meet Charles M. Lichenstein.

http://www.managementwisdom.com/waco30yelayh.html

A graduate of Yale, either '48 or '49, Lichenstein joined CIA in '52, serving as a training officer, and then in '55 and '56 served as the first chief editor for CIA's in-house Studies in Intelligence.

In '57 and '58, Lichenstein returned to teach at Yale, and then spent a year at Notre Dame. From 1959 to 1963, Lichenstein served as a staffer for two Richard Nixon campaigns, the '60 Presidential run and the '62 California gubernatorial run.

In '63, Lichenstein was recruited to join the nascent Barry Goldwater campaign by none other than [former OSS man and future CIA boss] William Casey. Thereafter, he was director of research for the Goldwater campaign and the Republican National Committee from l963 to 1965.

In later years, Lichenstein would repeatedly serve as Dean Burch's assistant in a variety of positions as they both worked their way up the food chain to serve under Nixon, Ford, and Reagan/Bush. His obituary contains few of the details itemized above, so one must undertake research to learn what I've synopsized here.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...75BC0A9649C8B63

Charles M. Lichenstein, 75, American Envoy at the U.N.

By PAUL LEWIS

Published: August 31, 2002

Charles M. Lichenstein, who as America's No. 2 envoy at the United Nations 20 years ago offered to wave ''a fond farewell'' to the world body if its members chose to leave the United States, died on Thursday in Washington. He was 75.

The Heritage Foundation, a conservative research organization where he worked, said Mr. Lichenstein had died of complications during heart surgery.

His provocative remarks came on Sept. 19, 1983, at a meeting of the United Nations committee overseeing relations with its host country.

On Sept. 1, Soviet fighter jets shot down a Korean airliner that had strayed over Soviet territory, killing all 269 on board, including an American congressman.

In response, the legislatures of New York and New Jersey voted to ban Soviet aircraft from landing in their states.

The United States, which opposed the legislation, offered the Soviet Union landing rights at a military base so its foreign minister, Andrei A. Gromyko, could fly in for the General Assembly meeting.

But the Soviets refused. When the United Nations committee met to review the situation, the Soviet delegate, Igor I. Yakovlev, said the ban on landing ''raises the question of whether the United Nations should be in the United States.''

A furious Mr. Lichensteinreplied that if member states felt ''they are not being treated with the hostly consideration that is their due,'' they should consider ''removing themselves and this organization from the soil of the United States.''

''We will put no impediment in your way,'' he continued, ''The members of the U.S. mission to the United Nations will be down at the dockside waving you a fond farewell as you sail off into the sunset.''

His remarks produced a flurry of speculation -- immediately denied -- that the Reagan administration might want the United Nations to move out of the United States. Mr. Gromyko boycotted the fall meeting.

Later the White House said that Mr. Lichenstein, who was alternate representative at the United Nations from 1981 to 1984, when Jeane J. Kirkpatrick was the ambassador, had sought unsuccessfully to resign from his post two weeks earlier in frustration at the United Nations' bureaucracy.

Charles Mark Lichenstein was born Sept. 20, 1926, in Albany. He graduated from Yale University and later helped establish the Chubb Fellowship, which encourages students to pursue careers in public service.

He worked for Richard M. Nixon's 1960 presidential campaign and 1962 gubernatorial campaign in California and for Senator Barry Goldwater's presidential campaign in 1964. In 1964 and 1965 he was research director for the Republican National Committee.

He served in the administrations of Presidents Nixon and Ford in public information, policy development and congressional and political liaison.

From 1975 to 1979 he was senior vice president of the Public Broadcasting Service in Washington, the national program distributor for United States public television.

He is survived by three nephews.

It is now three weeks since Tim Gratz declared Brad Ayers a "xxxx." It is also well over two weeks since Tim Gratz made the first of many promises to contact Ayers and seek his input on this topic.

Had Tim actually contacted Ayers, he would already have whatever answers Ayers felt free to provide. Rather than contacting Ayers, or conducting any research in the interim, Tim has instead decided he need do nothing more than sit on his duff and mock those who attempt to make actual contributions to discovering the circumstances surrounding Kennedy's execution, and to assail an author who is among them. Tim has done this solely upon the possibly self-serving testimony of a single witness who, it turns out, was neither of the things Tim Gratz insisted she was when he introduced her as a witness. She did not work for Goldwater in the pertinent time frame, and consequently her value as a witness is rather diminished.

In the matter of Gratz vs. Ayers, there can be little further doubt as to which party has attempted to further our cause here, and which one has attempted to do the opposite.

We now have a candidate who seems to meet the criteria for “Pearl’s father,” and some additional details that might suggest how the Mob/CIA nexus within Goldwater’s camp did precisely what Pearl contended. [This doesn’t conclusively demonstrate that Pearl’s story is true; only that there are now far more grounds to consider it possible.]

I managed to obtain all of the above within a few hours of trolling the Internet, something Tim might have been able to cobble together himself, were he actually sincere in his purported quest. But then, finding and confronting this information only works against Tim’s central premise, so it is little wonder that he’s expended little effort to locate what he wishes not to find.

I’ve known for some time that Tim Gratz is not sincere about such matters, for reasons that should now be plain to all who’ve bothered to read the above.

Caveat lector, indeed.

[Tim Gratz]

Well, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, be prepared for a ride!

I will give Robert an "A" for effort but an "F" for content. Sorry, Robert, to have to tell you that.

After I have demolished your post, I think it high time you apologize to me! But if nothing else I will establish for any person not blinded by an agenda between the two of us who gets his facts correct.

I will try to recheck my work and contact Mrs. Eisenhower to determine that she was INDEED Chief of Staff. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is, Robert. Provided it is legal, let's have a LIITLE wager. I promise to send you $10 if Mrs. Eisenhower was NOT his Chief of Staff, if you promise to send me $10 if I prove she WAS.

By the way, folks, note that Robert fails to provide any reference to this little journal he claims to have found. I am not calling hin a xxxx but it would be nice if he had provided the reference.

Now with respect to Dean Burch (a name I know well), all you say is that he "might have been" the man to whom Ayers alludes. All I can say is that is nothing but speculation on your part--and you are wrong that he fits the criteria. All I can say is that you, Robert, must not have read Ayers' chapters 31 and 32 at all or if you did you did so in your sleep! Before the sun rises over Key West tomorrow I will demonstrate to the satisfaction of any objective reader why your nomination of Burch as "Pearl's father" is as ridiculous as the proposition that the Democratic presidential candidate in 2008 will consist of Dodd, Biden or Kucinich. (The comparison will take me.)

And I wil let around to contacting Ayers but I will do so in MY time frame, not yours. I am thinking how best to do it. I may ask him to sign an affidavit that the substance of what he wrote (whether or not the name "Pearl" is correct) so he will be subject to potential criminal prosecution if he lies. He has already signed another affidavit that Bill posted here. If he is telling the truth, I see no reason why he would NOT sign the affidavit.

Now I just spent an hour rereading chapters 31 and 32 and it is not clear to me whether Ayers will ever calim to even know the last name of Pearl's father. He states that he asked Pearl for verification. What did she bring him? A copy of his tax return or W2 or pension from the US government? No, a picture, he says, of BG, "Pearl's father" and Morales. That proves nothing. I have a picture of me with Sen. Bob Dole. Can I submit that to prove I was a long time member of Dole's staff?

You know what, Robert, I suspect (without putting anyone on the spot) that any member of the Forum who is not agenda-driven, as you and Bill CLEARLY are, and our interchanges, deep down know that I am right. If there was a Pearl, she conned Ayers. But I doubt she even existed.

Can you imagine publishing that "blood libel" in a book if you do not even know the name of the man and your only verification was a photograph?

What are you going to say if Ayers cannot even come up with a NAME?

Well, Robert, here's another wager I offer you: $20 that Ayers refuses to sign an affidavit re the Pearl story.

So, folks, stay tuned and you will find out who is right here. (By right I mean, of course, correct, between the two of us you know whose politics are corre--right.)

By the way, if anyone wants to take the time they can read Chapter 31 and 32 and see why Robert is dead wrong about Burch!

Edited November 1, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[Tim Gratz]

Does ANY member believe that Burch comes even CLOSE to meeting the description of "Pearl's father"? All you can do is give Robert his "A" for effort!3

If you think he's right, speak up!

[James Richards]

Dean Burch is a very interesting guy and important to the ebbs and flows of what was going on in Arizona at the time.

As a curiosity, during an early 1964 broadcast for Mutual Reporter's Round-up, he made the announcement that new and important information regarding Bobby Baker would be made available before the election. I'm not sure what became of that or if such information did ultimately surface.

Burch circa 1963 below.

FWIW.

James

[Tim Gratz]

Robert wrote:

First, one will encounter a variety of descriptors for Ms. Eisenhower's relationship with Goldwater. Among the most common are "secretary," "aide" and "administrative assistant." One can labour long and hard without finding a reference to her as Goldwater's "Chief of Staff," because she never was that

Robert, I labored neither long nor hard. Took me no more than twenty minutes to find this:

http://www.ourcampaigns.com/CandidateDetai...didateID=163287

http://www.ourcampaigns.com/CandidateDetai...didateID=163287

Scottsdale resident Judy Eisenhower, Barry Goldwater's former chief of staff, described Bob Goldwater as a bright and very likable man, a fantastic golfer and terrific person.

"Barry would always say, 'You're smarter than me,' " Eisenhower said. "They loved each other very much. They were great friends."

This was Item 20 in my Yahoo search of "Judy Eisenhower". It took me about one minute per item. Twenty minutes; is that LONG to you, Robert?

I think people will now start to see who is the truth-teller here!

Robert, you REPRESENTED to the readers that one could labour long and hard without finding a reference to her as BG's chief of staff. That statement is obviously flat WRONG. It either makes YOU a xxxx or shows that it is YOU who is in fact the sloppy researcher--and that will become even more clear later on as we examine your preposterous nomination of Dean Rurch as Pearl's father!

Edited November 1, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

Well, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, be prepared for a ride!

I will give Robert an "A" for effort but an "F" for content. Sorry, Robert, to have to tell you that.

After I have demolished your post, I think it high time you apologize to me! But if nothing else I will establish for any person not blinded by an agenda between the two of us who gets his facts correct.

Tim,

first

you "demolish" my post; then we discuss apologies. Why do you always insist on getting things bass-ackwards?

I will try to recheck my work and contact Mrs. Eisenhower to determine that she was INDEED Chief of Staff. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is, Robert. Provided it is legal, let's have a LIITLE wager. I promise to send you $10 if Mrs. Eisenhower was NOT his Chief of Staff, if you promise to send me $10 if I prove she WAS.

Save your money, Tim. You need it more than I do. Spend it on your daughter instead.

This really isn't that hard. Try the following:

1) pick your favourite search engine. It doesn't matter which one.

2) search for "Barry Goldwater's chief of staff" [You'll get one result, referring to somebody other than Ms. Eisenhower]

3) search for "Judy Eisenhower" [You'll get many results,

none

of which identify her as Goldwater's Chief Of Staff. "Aide," yes. "Administrative Assistant," yes. "Secretary," even. Just not Goldwater's CoS.

Don't you suppose that if she had acted as Goldwater's CoS for 32 years, somebody somewhere might have written about that salient little detail?

I see in the interim that you have recycled something from a blog site called "Our Campaigns," which only underscores the importance of the adage: "Garbage in, garbage out." If you're relying on a blog site - rather than, say, any of the 3 dozen daily newspapers in Arizona - then both your own desperation and slack standards are on display. After 32 years as Goldwater's purported "Chief of Staff," shouldn't

somebody

in the mainstream media have noticed her job description and reported it?

By the way, folks, note that Robert fails to provide any reference to this little journal he claims to have found. I am not calling hin a xxxx but it would be nice if he had provided the reference.

Sorry. My oversight. Try here:

http://www.archivists.org/saagroups/cpr/ne...rs/mar_2006.pdf

Now scroll down to page #11 and you'll see that Ms. Eisenhower was "

Goldwater's administrative assistant of 32 years

," ceasing upon his death in '98. Now grab a calculator and do the math. When did she commence working for him? Certainly

not

"during the period in question," as

you

stated.

Of course, you could have discovered this for yourself, as I did, even without a citation. But then, all that "research" stuff is such a dreadful nuisance for our Tim. Far simply merely to pontificate and prevaricate and hope not to be caught out.

Now with respect to Dean Burch (a name I know well), all you say is that he "might have been" the man to whom Ayers alludes. All I can say is that is nothing but speculation on your part--and you are wrong that he fits the criteria. All I can say is that you, Robert, must not have read Ayers' chapters 31 and 32 at all or if you did you did so in your sleep! Before the sun rises over Key West tomorrow I will demonstrate to the satisfaction of any objective reader why your nomination of Burch as "Pearl's father" is as ridiculous as the proposition that the Democratic presidential candidate in 2008 will consist of Dodd, Biden or Kucinich. (The comparison will take me.)

I'll await whatever half-baked malarkey of which you think you are capable. In the meantime, as you rightly noted, all I

did

say is that Burch meets the criteria: he worked for Goldwater for more than a decade, he died in '91 and he had children. You might have determined this much for yourself, but then troubling yourself to seek out information that illustrates you might be wrong about "Pearl" surely isn't high on your agenda, is it?

And I wil let around to contacting Ayers but I will do so in MY time frame, not yours. I am thinking how best to do it. I may ask him to sign an affidavit that the substance of what he wrote (whether or not the name "Pearl" is correct) so he will be subject to potential criminal prosecution if he lies. He has already signed another affidavit that Bill posted here. If he is telling the truth, I see no reason why he would NOT sign the affidavit.

An honourable man would have gone to that effort

before

branding him a "xxxx." This isn't about "my time frame," but merely what basic human decency requires. It is merely one

more

indicator that you are unsuited for this line of endeavour.

Now I just spent an hour rereading chapters 31 and 32 and it is not clear to me whether Ayers will ever calim to even know the last name of Pearl's father. He states that he asked Pearl for verification. What did she bring him? A copy of his tax return or W2 or pension from the US government? No, a picture, he says, of BG, "Pearl's father" and Morales. That proves nothing. I have a picture of me with Sen. Bob Dole. Can I submit that to prove I was a long time member of Dole's staff?

Given Dole's role as Viagra pitchman, words like "member" and "staff" are unfortunate choices.

If the photo is the only verification provided by Pearl, you would have a point. But, let us assume that her father was Burch, or some other high profile Goldwater intimate. How hard is it to verify

that

? Why, it is so simple, I feel certain even

you

could manage it.

You know what, Robert, I suspect (without putting anyone on the spot) that any member of the Forum who is not agenda-driven, as you and Bill CLEARLY are, and our interchanges, deep down know that I am right. If there was a Pearl, she conned Ayers. But I doubt she even existed.

Can you imagine publishing that "blood libel" in a book if you do not even know the name of the man and your only verification was a photograph?

What are you going to say if Ayers cannot even come up with a NAME?

These are things you could have freely ascertained from Ayers prior to labelling him a "xxxx." That you continue with this farcical charade, in the absence of evidence, demonstrates far more about you and your motives and methods than about Ayers.

Well, Robert, here's another wager I offer you: $20 that Ayers refuses to sign an affidavit re the Pearl story.

For someone so filled to bursting with unwarranted certitude, you certainly are miserly. Why such small sums? Is this an indication that even

you

know your certainty is ill-founded? After all, if this is going to be such a cakewalk for you, why not bet large and collect large?

So, folks, stay tuned and you will find out who is right here. (By right I mean, of course, correct, between the two of us you know whose politics are corre--right.)

By the way, if anyone wants to take the time they can read Chapter 31 and 32 and see why Robert is dead wrong about Burch!

Why not just cite the pertinent passages? Or is even

that

too great a strain for our intrepid Key West "researcher?"

[Tim Gratz]

Given Dole's role as Viagra pitchman, words like "member" and "staff" are unfortunate choices.

Robert, it's one of your best lines yet! By the way, half the commercials on late at night are for Viagra and "male enhancement"!

Gotta run--to your substance later!

[James Richards]

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that Dean Burch's daughter Shelly, is quite a well known actress. You can check her out on her website - http://shellyburch.org/

If one is keen enough, then maybe attempting to contact her might bear fruit. The other daughter Dianne is also someone worth tracking down.

FWIW.

James

[Tim Gratz]

First a character reference for BG from Slate magazine (re the "Craig affair"):

Nick Gillespie, the editor of Reason, seized on the Craig affair to make a version of this argument in the Los Angeles Times, where he said that the GOP should get back to its fundamental principles as articulated by Barry Goldwater. Republicans should stop trying to tell people what to do in their bedrooms and bathrooms, either by stinging a Singing Senator or passing an amendment banning gay marriage. This drew criticism from the National Review's John Hood, who argued that Gillespie had misappropriated the memory of Barry Goldwater. "I'm going to go out on a not-very-long limb here and suggest that if Sen. Goldwater was still around," wrote Hood, "he'd be urging Craig to take personal responsibility for the disrepute he has brought upon himself and the Senate."

We don't have to guess about what Goldwater would do. During the 1964 presidential campaign, he faced almost precisely the same issue. In October, the Goldwater campaign learned that Walter Jenkins, LBJ's closest aide, had been arrested on a "morals charge" in the YMCA bathroom. According to J. William Middendorf's account of that campaign, A Glorious Disaster, Goldwater's aides wanted to use the scandal against Johnson, who was well ahead in the polls. Jenkins was not only a security risk—open to blackmail— but long before he was arrested, there were allegations he'd used his influence with then-Vice President Johnson to get an Air Force general who had been busted on a morals charge reinstated. The Goldwater aides even tried out slogans: "Either way with LBJ." Goldwater insisted that they make no use of it. The story never came up during the campaign.

This may say more about Goldwater's personal decency than it does about his governing philosophy. Jenkins had served in Goldwater's Air Force Reserve Unit, and as Goldwater later wrote, "It was a sad time for Jenkins' wife and children, and I was not about to add to their private sorrow. Winning isn't everything. Some things, like loyalty to friends or lasting principle, are more important." Mitt, you're no Barry Goldwater. [Emphasis supplied.]

*****************************************************************************

I would again remind readers that BG called RN "the most dishonest individual I have ever met" and refused to attend his funeral.

[Tim Gratz]

Well, RN may have been known as "Tricky Dick" but his trickiness is in no way a match for that of Mr. Charles-Dunne. Man, the guy puts Arlen Specter to shame.

Look at what he wrote:

Now scroll down to page #11 and you'll see that Ms. Eisenhower was "Goldwater's administrative assistant of 32 years," ceasing upon his death in '98. Now grab a calculator and do the math. When did she commence working for him? Certainly not "during the period in question," as you stated. [My emphasis.]

Charles-Dunne clearly implies that that article states that Mrs. Eisenhower continued working for Barry Goldwater until he died in 1998. He must really believe his rhetoric that I am too lazy to check his work. You go and read the entire article. No where does it state that Mrs. Eisenhower worked for BG until his death as he clearly implies. Where did he get that info? Apparently just out of his head (like Ayers). Some might even call that a "lawyer's trick". (I know I thus leave an opening for him to regurgitate my bar problems one more time but I trust readers are tired of that tactic by now.)

A reasonable assumption is that Mrs. Eisenhower worked for BG until he left the U.S. Senate. Charles-Dunne, that paragon of research, apparently never bothered to Google BG or he would have learned that BG left the U.S. Senate on Jan 1, 1987. So he was in office through all of 1986. So let's do THAT math. 1986 less 32 is 1954, about a year after BG first took his oath as a U. S. Senator. She was truly with him from the start of his national political career.

So is it just my assumption that Mrs. Eisenhower was with BG in the early 1960s ("the period in question"). No. Unlike Charles-Dunne, I DID my homework.

Unlike LBJ, BG had the integrity to resign from the Senate so he left DC in early 1965. In AZ, according to Chapter 8 of his autobiolgraphy (p. 221) "I opened a small office in Phoenix with a staff of one, Judy Rooney, who had worked with me in Washington. (She later married Earl Eisenhower, a nephew of the former president.)"

So there you have it. Charles-Dunne tried a little con job on you folks (ala Ayers) by making an assumption when Mrs. Eisenhower last worked for BG and then implying that the article he cited so stated. Never once did he offer a caveat that his conclusion was based on an assumption of which he had no proof. And obviously he, who accuses ME of laziness, was unable to get off "his duff" (his words) to truck on down to the library and review the autobiography of BG.

As I said once in reference to Ayers, caveat lector!

Robert, are you now willing to concede that just as Mrs. Eisenhower told me she was working for BG in the early 1960s? Dear reader, don't you think that was one of the first questions I asked her?

Let me tell you, Robert, I forgive you. How can one NOT appreciate the guy who came up with that quote about Dole and Viagra!

Edited November 2, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[Tim Gratz]

Now let us turn our attention (at least briefly) to a comparison of Dean Burch and "Pearl's father". Remember here is what out Canadian POR says about the two of them:

Thus far, Dean Burch meets all the criteria in our hunt for "Pearl's father."

Well, let's look at that claim by our Canadian POR.

Per Ayers, Pearl told him (if Pearl in fact existed) that her father "was born an illegitimate child of American Indian Mexican parentage in Gallup, New Mexico in 1926 and was put up for adoption. (Ch 31 at page 221.)

According to the biography of Dean Burch ("DB") that our Canadian POR posted, DB was born on December 20, 1927 in Enid, Oklahoma.

There is no indication that DB was illegitimate or put up for adoption. But more significantly, not only were their birth places separated by the entire length of the State of Texas (!), Pearl's father was a year older than DB! (I did a Google Map deal and determined their birthplaces are 715 miles apart.)

DB entererd the University of Arizona as a freshman in 1948, when "Pearl's father (if Pearl exists outside of Ayers' mind)" was graduating from Arizona State University. (Again, page 222.)

After DB earned his undergraduate degree from the University of Arizona, he enrolled in law school there (in 1950). In the meantime, "Pearl's father (if Pearl exists) did some graduate work at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff. (For those wondering, Arizona State University is located in Phoenix while the University of Arizona is in Tuscon,) So while it is correct that both DB and "Pearl's father (if Pearl exists) were both doing postgraduate work in the early 1950s, they were doing so in schools which were 197 miles apart!

Moreover, while DB earned his law degree and practiced law as an Assistant Attorney General for the State of Arizona from 1953 to 1954, according to Pearl (if she exists) her father "left [NAU] without an advanced degree to go to work as a paid intern." (Again, that is on page 221 of Ayers' book.) DB joined the staff of BG in 1955 and worked for him only until 1959. He of course had a law degree and a year of legal practice so DB joined BG's staff as his administrative assistant. While DB was no longer a member of BG's staff after 1959, according to Pearl (if there really is a Pearl) her father worked as a member of BG's staff "from the early 1950s to 1974."

WOW! AS I WAS TYPING THIS I THINK I JUST PROVED THE PEARL STORY IS MANUFACTURED. AS I NOTED IN A PREVIOUS POST, BG DID NOT HOLD AN ELECTIVE OFFICE FOR A FEW YEARS FOLLOWING HIS LOSS IN 1964. HE HAD A PERSONAL OFFICE IN AZ AND HIS ONLY STAFF MEMBER WAS MRS. EISENHOWER!! SO AYERS WAS NOT SUFFICIENTLY CAREFUL IN HIS RESEARCH WHEN HE WROTE THE PEARL STORY!!! I FIGURED IF I DIGGED DEEP ENOUGH, I'D DISCOVER A FATAL ERROR!!

Edited November 2, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[Tim Gratz]

James wrote:

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that Dean Burch's daughter Shelly, is quite a well known actress.

Brad Ayers was Pearl's "father".

[Tim Gratz]

Robert, with all your research skills, can you find a staff member who worked in BG's personal office in Phoenix in 1965 (when he was not a Senator)? I suggest you not spend TOO much time trying to find such an individual since we have it straight from BG that his ONLY staff member during that period was Judy Rooney!!

Ayers' Pearl has Pearl's father trucking back and forth between DC and Arizona working for Senator Goldwater when Goldwater was not in the Senate!

A Perry Mason moment, I'd say!

Bottom line folks: don't believe a word from Ayers unless there is verification from an independent source.