John Simkin Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Members of this forum might be interested in Jim Marrs new book on 9/11. You can discuss it here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=992 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wim Dankbaar Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Question of the month: The American mainstream media is wary of conspiracies. It is almost a dirty word and it is often argued that vast conspiracies like most people see for example behind the Kennedy assasinations are too monstrous to cover up and that people would have talked before and after the fact. Actually this happened on many occasions, but let's ignore that .... Why is the mainstream press so gullible on such a huge conspiracy as Osama Bin Laden and allies pulled off on 9/11/2001, involving 19 hi-jackers, four planes and god knows how many more backup people and infrastructure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Frank Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Renegade CIA operatives built the Al Qaeda hierarchy. I know this for a fact. I exposed KGB infiltration of the CIA in 1984 and it was never made public. The CIA was rife with renegade operatives by 1984 and the United States government was very corrupted. After the KGB officers went to prison, they personally told me that they had killed the thirteen Members of Congress, including Senator Robert F. Kennedy. They had manipulated an Islamic extremist named Sirhan Sirhan to assassinate Senator Kennedy on June 5, 1968, and he made no secret of why he had to kill Senator Kennedy on that day. Senator Kennedy had spoken out in favor of Israel and Sirhan Sirhan was vehemently anti-Israeli. The Jordanian-born Sirhan Sirhan had at one time lived in Jerusalem, and June 5, 1968, was the anniversary of the 1967 six-day war in which Israel defeated Jordan and took over the rest of Jerusalem and the West Bank. A book about this assassination, “RFK Must Die!” has as its cover a photocopy of Sirhan’s diary writings, in which he repeatedly writes over and over, “RFK Must Die! June 5, 1968!” This was not the only manipulation of an Islamic extremist in an assassination. “Tony Chavez,” a KGB officer who had been the CIA’s head of domestic operations from the late 1960s until 1984, said that they had used Islamic extremists to assassinate Egyptian President Anwar Sadat in 1981. Renegade CIA officers took over handling the Islamic extremists in 1984, and eventually linked them up with Osama bin Laden. On September 24, 2001, the New York Times reported that Ayman al-Zawahiri led the Islamic extremists that killed Anwar Sadat. It said that Zawahiri had “assumed the helm of the Jihad group by the late 1970s.” Ayman al-Zawahiri, the Islamic terrorist that renegade CIA officers took over handling in 1984, is Osama bin Laden’s second in command. Renegade CIA officers were amused by the fact that I was futilely trying to put an end to the CIA operations targeting me by publicizing my knowledge of the KGB infiltration that had been exposed, and my knowledge of the massive corruption in the CIA. At one point in 1984, they taunted me by bringing Zawahiri to see me in Chicago. On October 4, 2001, the New York Times reported that Mohammed Atef, another top lieutenant to Osama bin Laden, led “the Egyptian Islamic Jihad” along with Zawahiri, that the movement was reorganized in 1992, and that he and Zawahiri brought their “loyal followers” to Al Qaeda. MSNBC reports that, “according to US intelligence officials and allied intelligence,” Thirwat Salah Shihata is one of the “most wanted members of Al Qaeda,” and that he had been “second-in-command, after Ayman al-Zawahiri, of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad.” The New York Times also stated on October 4, 2001, that “the leadership of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad . . . now forms the backbone for Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan.” On November 21st, it stated that Al Qaeda merged with the Egyptian Islamic Jihad in 1998, and it described them as “the terror group whose members became foot soldiers for Osama bin Laden.” The Al Qaeda hierarchy was built with terrorists that renegade CIA officers began handling in 1984. The renegade CIA officers linked up Zawahiri, Atef, Shihata, and their “loyal followers” with Osama bin Laden, and eventually used them to facilitate the September 11th terrorist attacks. Even though Zawahiri and his “Jihad group” were not identified in news reports as the Egyptian Islamic Jihad in the 1980s, the exact phrase that Tony Chavez used to identify who had killed Egyptian President Anwar Sadat on behalf of the KGB officers was “the Egyptian Islamic Jihad.” The hijacked plane that crashed in Pennsylvania while en route to Washington DC was meant to kill a multitude of Congressmen and Senators. (President Bush was in Florida at the time.) The terrorist attacks on the Pentagon and in New York would have easily provided cover for what may have been the main purpose of the terrorist attacks, killing Members of Congress. The KGB officers and renegade CIA officers had been responsible for a total of eleven Members of Congress perishing in airplane “accidents.” Using airplanes to slaughter Members of Congress was a tried and proven method on September 11, 2001. Just how many Members of Congress would have died when a vehicle that they were not on board became the instrument for their death is not known, but what is known is that, ten years before the September 11th attacks, renegade CIA officers killed a United States Senator by crashing a helicopter crashed into his plane. There had also been three other incidents when vehicles that they were not on board killed Members of Congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Tony, While some of this is very interesting, I take exception to your use of Sirhan Sirhan as a reference point in this fashion. This isn't the first post where you have cited Sirhan Sirhan as being the assassin of RFK. I would like to propose that you read "The Assassinations" by James DiEugenio and Lisa Pease - the Probe magazine stuff, before continuing to make this assertion. Mostly from memory [had to look up names]: - All shots came from behind RFK. - Witnesses attested to a 1' to 3' bark of flame coming from the gun, more consistent with a starter pistol. - Witnesses attested to the initial sound as being more like a firecracker than a shot, more consistent with a starter pistol. - Anywhere between 8 to 10 shots were fired; impossible from one revolver, and also inconsistent with witness accounts [3? shots by Sirhan - all fired in RFKs direction] and the evidence: holes in the CEILING TILES and the upper framework of a doorway, the mulitple witnesses [Paul Schrade] that were also hit [schrade, Goldstein, Stroll, Evans & Weisel], RFK's jacket and body, etc. - All evidence of ceiling tile and doorframe shots neatly removed and later destroyed. - The kindly witness who removed the evidence from the scene of the crime, a crime in itself, only to turn in a revolver that has a similar make and model Starter pistol. I believe he also made a slur against Arabs at the time he surrendered the alleged murder weapon. - I believe there were also witness accounts of paper flying in the air, consistent with dummy rounds. - None of the shells found matched the revolver handed in as evidence. - The fatal wounds to RFK were consistent with shots having been fired from a distance of 1 - 3 INCHES, from behind. Sirhan was approximately 3 FEET, in FRONT of Robert Kennedy when he dazedly smiled and opened fire. - Sirhan has shown signs of having been placed in a state of hypnosis before, and cannot recall the events of this day, even with efforts of hypnosis. - The eyewitness accounts of the young man and young woman who accompanied Sirhan. - The eyewitness account of Sandy Serrano of the young white male, and young white female [attired in the infamous polka dot dress] that gleefully ran from the scene of the Ambassador Hotel, proclaiming to passerbys that "Kennedy. We shot him. We killed him!" - Police reports that indicate an initial search for these suspects, which was then called off abruptly, as there was a desire to avoid a conspiracy. ?!? Note the transcript as evidence. If you could demonstrate that Sirhan was used as a dupe to push for the continued expansion and need for operations in the Middle East, that I'd find that very exciting and interesting. And it would fit in well with the subject matter at hand, from an historical perspective. - lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Williams Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 This might be far out there, but do you think JFK Jr's plane crash could have been a murder? I have no evidence right now, I am just throwing it out there. It wouldn't suprise me if it was a murder though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Frank Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Lee, I am well aware of the fact that they had a double agent in the room to kill RFK. After the story came out in the news that a woman in a polkadot dress ran out of the room and excitedly exclaimed, "We shot him," Federal operatives went to a woman, gave her a polkadot dress, and paid her several thousand dollars to say that she owns a polkadot dress and in the excitement she exclaimed something like "They shot him." The woman testified at the Congressional closed-door hearings in 1984 after I exposed the KGB infiltration. I am leery of the claims that you site, because I know the CIA manufactures false information to give people something to chew on, just like they did in the JFK assassination. Cubans had nothing to do with it, but the CIA supplied ample information to the Warren Commission that said Cubans had killed JFK. The Warren Commission covered it up in the belief that they were saving us all from a nuclear war. In December 1972, Earl Warren was interviewed for a PBS television show and he said that President Johnson was worried “that Soviet Premier Khrushchev and Cuba’s Premier Castro might have been involved in the assassination.” Warren “was invited to the White House by Mr. Johnson who ‘told me he felt conditions around the world were so bad at the moment that he thought it might even get us into a war; a nuclear war.’” [New York Times, 12-9-72, page 25] Two hours before going to the White House, “Mr. Warren said that he had advised the President’s brother, Robert F. Kennedy, that he did not believe a Chief Justice should undertake non-judicial duties while sitting on the Supreme Court.” “Warren also related that Mr. Johnson said he had asked for a report from Defense Secretary Robert S. McNamara for an estimate on how many Americans would be killed in a Soviet nuclear attack. He said that Mr. Johnson had told him he was given a figure of 60,000,000 . . . The former Chief Justice said that the President’s concern had caused him to agree to head the inquiry.” All the information about Cubans being involved in the assassination of JFK, including a lot of what I have seen on this forum, was manufactured by the CIA. I am therefore leery of many of the points you referred to regarding the RFK assassination, although many of them may be true. The fact remains that they had no problem manipulating Sirhan to kill RFK, even if he was actually just a fall guy while they had the double agent kill RFK. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Tony, I will certainly concede on your final point. I make it a mix of syndicate, CIA [MKULTRA] and possibly FBI [wasn't it Hoover who gave some of the orders to have the evidence removed for examination?]. Notwithstanding generous assistance from the most corrupt Police force on the planet at that time. So one question would be - how willing was Sirhan to go along with any such plan? What methods were used for manipulation? I'd personally like to see some tests performed on his fatty tissues for search of traces of LSD. MKULTRA was big, and the idea of unwitting, trained assassins was under experimentation at the time in a similar fashion to the exploration of space - highly competitive, and well funded. On a side note - I still make Roy Crump Jr., the murderer of Mary Pinchot Meyer, a similar Sirhan Sirhan victim of this form of Manchurian Candidate type training, based upon his behavior immediately following the act, and for the next 40 years. - lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Question of the month: The American mainstream media is wary of conspiracies. It is almost a dirty word and it is often argued that vast conspiracies like most people see for example behind the Kennedy assasinations are too monstrous to cover up and that people would have talked before and after the fact. Actually this happened on many occasions, but let's ignore that .... Why is the mainstream press so gullible on such a huge conspiracy as Osama Bin Laden and allies pulled off on 9/11/2001, involving 19 hi-jackers, four planes and god knows how many more backup people and infrastructure? Mr. Dankbaar asks the KEY question regarding 9-11. It is SO OBVIOUS that the truth has been hidden, yet the media refuses to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 "[A]s you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say."—Washington, D.C., Oct. 28, 2003 George W. Bush Can we detail some of the inconsistencies and questions for the forum concerning this topic? I think my number one concerns Governor Jeb Bush and his having declared a state of Martial law [still in effect today?] by signing an official State of Emergency for the State of Florida. The signature was effected the morning of 9/11, from what I have read, and the document may have been created 9/7? I have already asked the question myself - was a target in Florida preselected for Flight 93? Disney World, for example? I'll have to read Marrs' new book, and I look forward to it. As to the media - during my College years, I got some chuckles viewing some of the propoganda films of Stalin - out in the fields with his workers, stooping to collect grain, getting his hands dirty - these were the popular films of the Soviet Union in the 40s, a 'communist' Nation, and this was their dictator, making extremely effective use of the media for his own political purposes. And then, in 2003, when I saw my own Commander if Chief, dressed in Military garb, flying out to the troops in Baghdad on Thanksgiving to share their meal, I was reminded of those films. The presidential historian Douglas Brinkley, appearing on CNN, called it ``a perfectly executed plan'' that would be ``one of the major moments in his biography.'' It would have provided ``an incredible thrill'' for the American. Is that what is important? The execution of the plan, the biography and the thrill? But no one can rely either on the American media or the Democratic politicians in Congress to conduct a serious investigation into the September 11 tragedy. Already the leading organs of the American press, such as the New York Times and the Washington Post, have published editorials declaring the reports of Bush’s advance knowledge of September 11 to be “overblown” (the Post) or an example of a typical Washington “blame game” (the Times). http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/may2002/bush-m18.shtml If we've learned anything from the lesson taught by the cover-up of the Coup D'etat of 1963 it is the fact the Media in the US is owned, controlled, and still extremely effective. IMO, what's more relevant for our era is the power of the Internet, and how difficult it is to regulate, thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Frank Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 One of the biggest problems with the media and those who have corrupted our sytem of government is that when negative information comes out, they just wait for it to "blow over." In this country, everyone can make their point of view known. Sometimes the media is very effective at making things known, but it often seems to be a flash in the pan. People have no understanding that their very freedoms are threatened by their own disinterest in doing something about the bipartisan corruption that has enveloped the United States government. As for Iraq, Bush only wanted to go to war for political points. Notice how the Iraqi elections will be in January 1965, after the US elections? Bush planned that from the beginning, but he thought it would all be going smoothly in Iraq and he would be reelected as the great President who put Iraq on the road to democracy. FAT CHANCE! John Kerry is equally corrupt. Senator John Kerry, the Democratic nominee for President in 2004, was also one of the intelligence officers targeted for political office by the KGB officers. He first ran unsuccessfully for Congress in 1972, was elected Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts in 1982, and then elected to the United States Senate in 1984, the year that the KGB officers were exposed and the year that another intelligence officer, former Senator and Vice President Walter Mondale, was the Democratic nominee for President. Over the years, I often saw John Kerry at news conferences and the State of the Union address as he stood in a clique with the five CIA officers who were in the Senate; Edward Kennedy, Chris Dodd, Barbara Mikulski, Claiborne Pell, and Daniel Patrick Moynihan, the last two of whom are now retired. Not surprisingly, when Kerry testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971, Senator Claiborne Pell, a CIA officer who went on to become the Foreign Relations Committee Chairman, said that Kerry “might one day be a colleague of ours in this body.” The KGB officers had sought to have two CIA officers they were handling running against each other in a Presidential race. They never accomplished this, but renegade CIA officers accomplished the next best thing in 2004. They have John Kerry, a renegade CIA officer, running against George W. Bush, who is being handled by renegade CIA officers. John Kerry is married to Teresa Heinz, the widow of Senator John Heinz, who was the Senator killed by renegade CIA officers when a helicopter crashed into his plane in 1991. As the heir to the Heinz family fortune, Senator Heinz was worth $500 million when they killed him. Senator Kerry “coincidentally” ran into Teresa Heinz at the Earth Summit in Brazil in 1992, the year after they killed her husband. She was there because President George H. W. Bush appointed her to be a delegate to the summit, and Senator Kerry married her three years later. Renegade CIA officers killed Senator Heinz in an effort to get access to the Heinz family fortune. The secret corruption has left the American people with a choice of electing one of the two most corrupt politicians in the history of the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 QUOTE: Renegade CIA officers killed Senator Heinz in an effort to get access to the Heinz family fortune. BRINGS TO MIND: I believe the CIA killed Howard Hughes and created the myth of Hughes as a reclusive hermit so they could control and use his companies and fortune. Agents Robert Maheu and Dick Danner were involved. Hughes companies were then used in various CIA covert ops such as the Glomar Explorer. Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 (edited) THIS IS AN ACCIDENTAL DUPLICATE POST. DOES THE FORUM HAVE A FACILITY FOR DELETING SUCH? QUOTE: Renegade CIA officers killed Senator Heinz in an effort to get access to the Heinz family fortune. BRINGS TO MIND: I believe the CIA killed Howard Hughes and created the myth of Hughes as a reclusive hermit so they could control and use his companies and fortune. Agents Robert Maheu and Dick Danner were involved. Hughes companies were then used in various CIA covert ops such as the Glomar Explorer. Jack White Edited June 27, 2004 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Do a Google search for Robert Maheu. You may be astonished. Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Do a Google search for Robert Maheu. You maybe astonished. Indeed, Jack. Maheu has certainly been around. I saw him interviewd once where he claimed that his attempted set-up of Sukarno was his patriotic duty. Here he is below with Richard Bissell. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Do you have anything on Dick Danner, Maheu's former FBI buddy, who became his right hand man at Hughes? Danner worked in Fort Worth as a Ford dealer for a while before joining Maheu in Las Vegas. Do you have any info on the Hughes caper? Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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