Was Oswald an Intelligence Agent?

[Jon G. Tidd]

Is impersonation always false?

An entertainer may impersonate (imitate) a well-known person and be quite accurate and true in the portrayal. This lawful.

An individual may fraudulently (falsely) impersonate another for purposes of obtaining financial or other gain or evading the law. This is unlawful, generally speaking.

Oswald was fraudulently impersonated over the telephone in Mexico City, apparently, and possibly impersonated in person there also. Perhaps the CIA was making use of Oswald's identity. If so, the use could have been in furtherance of legitimate CIA activities in MC. Does anyone know for sure? It isn't necessary to assume the impersonation of Oswald in MC was tied to the assassination. The story of Oswald's alleged bus trip to MC was tied to the assassination. But clumsily. The material found tucked in a book by Ruth Paine, which indicated Oswald had traveled south of the border by bus, she didn't allegedly find until well into 1964.

I admire the work David Josephs has done on the Mexico City affair.

At the end of the day, I think the affair is a distraction, does nothing to show Oswald (Marina's husband) was working for some intelligence service, and is a dead end insofar as the JFK assassination is concerned.

[David Josephs]

Paul - I recall Simpich saying he was 'agnostic' on whether Oswald was ever in MC. Is that you memory as well?

Simpich has given us his very valuable opinion that Morales is the likely suspect for arranging the Oswald impersonation. Paul, you seem to have no trouble melding that with your Walker theory, despite the fact that there is zero evidence (anyone feel free to correct me on this) that Morales intersected with Walker, or even Banister. Meanwhile, we know for a certain fact that Morales worked for Phillips, and Angleton, and was the top operations officer in the CIA at that time, working out of Miami Station, no doubt well known to Shackley, Helms, JC King and the like.

Graves makes an excellent point, and comes up with a possibility I had not thought of. My suspicion, which Simpich never responded to when I queried him, was that the mole hunt was a misdirection, providing cover for Angleton and Goodpasture who themselves arranged the impersonation of Oswald. No one would ever suspect them if they left a paper trail suggesting that they were mystified at who impersonated Oswald. Graves suggests that the paper trail was laid after the fact. Perhaps we are saying the same thing.

Paul Trejo ran with the discovery by Simpich, (credit to Scott and Newman as well) jumping immediately to the conclusion that the mole hunt proves that top level CIA brass were innocent, and that Morales must have gone rogue. Somehow this lead to Walker in Paul's mind. I argued with Trejo in the past that Morales was a loyal and trusted operational CIA officer, high up the chain, and that his possible involvement in setting up Oswald in MC, by linking him to Kostikov, implicated those above him in the chain if command. So like Graves I am suspicious of the mole hunt itself. It's just another layer of the onion in my opinion.

Bill said the same to me since his concentration was on the operation within those few days. The man Ruby killed was identified by both Odio sisters as the man at their house when the FBI puts him on unnamed buses without evidence.

Kostikov was an assumption made by OBYEDKOV on the Oct 1 call transcript. It was repeated by CIA to Scott who writes theOct 16th memo which is CC'd to IN&S and makes its way to HOSTY who writes a memo on the 18th back to Hoover.

I remain skeptical about the mole hunt since I feel that Phillips/Choaden was the main player in this charade. That Phillips and Alvarado are connected is indicative of this possibility. I think Phillips provides Alvarado with the story he is to tell as either a Phase 1 story yet his insistence that it occurred on Sept 18th is very puzzling.

I post the documents which name Alvarado as a CIA source and the rest of his "evidence" in my articles -

[David Josephs]

Is impersonation always false?

An entertainer may impersonate (imitate) a well-known person and be quite accurate and true in the portrayal. This lawful.

An individual may fraudulently (falsely) impersonate another for purposes of obtaining financial or other gain or evading the law. This is unlawful, generally speaking.

Oswald was fraudulently impersonated over the telephone in Mexico City, apparently, and possibly impersonated in person there also. Perhaps the CIA was making use of Oswald's identity. If so, the use could have been in furtherance of legitimate CIA activities in MC. Does anyone know for sure? It isn't necessary to assume the impersonation of Oswald in MC was tied to the assassination. The story of Oswald's alleged bus trip to MC was tied to the assassination. But clumsily. The material found tucked in a book by Ruth Paine, which indicated Oswald had traveled south of the border by bus, she didn't allegedly find until well into 1964.

I admire the work David Josephs has done on the Mexico City affair.

At the end of the day, I think the affair is a distraction, does nothing to show Oswald (Marina's husband) was working for some intelligence service, and is a dead end insofar as the JFK assassination is concerned.

Thanks Jon... and yes, it is possible that a back story was being created for Oswald to give him more credibility related to his FPCC infultration work... As you spend time with the evidence, the dismissal of Odio and the tiny amount of space she is given in the WCR leads me to believe she and her sister were truthful about the man Ruby killed being at their home. Add to this the BS the WCR and FBI tried with Hall, Seymour and Howard and I'm pretty convinced the sisters told the truth.

If Bill Simpich is correct, then Mexico had little to do with the Assassination.

If this is the case, then why is there so much mystery related to his going and coming?

On Sept 25th he is basically an innocent man taking a bus trip to Mexico. The FBI is able to find literally every possible person who may have been onthe bus with Oswald from the records, just not that Oswald was on the bus from the records... so we get literally 10's of thousands of pages on the Mexico trip itself, all to hide the fact he didn't go the way the FBI says he did.

From Part 2a:

Returning to the 25th, there is no mention of the transportation needed to get Oswald from the downtown bus station area back to his PO Box or to the Winn Dixie and then back again to leave on the 12:20pm bus to Houston – the ONLY bus that fits the WCR description of his travel. The problem the WCR could not overcome yet chose to add in their narrative on p.731 posted above is Oswald’s evening call to the Twiford’s in Houston and the affidavit of Mrs. Twiford.

As we read on page 731 of the WCR above, according to Marina he left NOLA by bus – the fact that Marina had already left NOLA the day before should give you some clue as to the depths of investigation performed to determine this “fact”. With Mexico City his final destination, Oswald could have (and should have) purchased the three part ticket to take him from NOLA to Houston, Houston to Laredo and from Nuevo Laredo to Mexico City. Yet for ANYONE to reach Houston in time to catch the 2:35am Houston to Laredo CONTINENTAL bus – which is the first place there is ANY evidence that “an” Oswald purchased a ticket for transportation to Mexico – they had to leave New Orleans on the Sept 25th CONTINENTAL 12:20pm bus. There are NO OTHER CHOICES. This conclusion was arrived at by process of elimination as there remains no evidence to support Oswald or anyone claiming to be Oswald boarding and traveling on that bus. In fact, even the 12:20pm bus was not originally discussed as an option.

Oswald had to be on the September 25th 12:20pm Continental Trailways bus from New Orleans to Houston regardless of the fact that there is:

•No record of his purchasing a ticket for the New Orleans to Houston portion of the trip on Continental Trailways bus #5121 at 12:20pm.

•No record of his boarding a bus, presenting a ticket, or checking luggage

•No record of any bus drivers recalling the uniqueness of a New Orleans to Mexico City 3-part ticket and when shown photos of Oswald, no recognition of that man being on the only bus from New Orleans to Houston

Hang on a second now… a 12:20pm bus to Houston huh... On Dec 16, 1963 Mr. Major Green of the CONTINENTAL TRAILWAYS bus line stated that there were two (2) buses that traveled from New Orleans to Laredo. (One might assume that if Oswald was going all the way to Mexico he would buy a bus ticket for the entire trip as opposed to simply traveling to Houston and buying yet another ticket there for the rest of the trip.) These buses were the 4:40pm and 8:15pm Sept 25th buses arriving in Houston the next day, the 26th, at 2:15am and 7:00am, respectively. (WCD183 ) The 2:15am arrival would have been just in time for the 2:35am from Houston to Laredo… The FBI looked into the 4:40pm bus, its driver and passengers with no indication that Oswald was aboard.

[Thomas Graves]

Is impersonation always false?

An entertainer may impersonate (imitate) a well-known person and be quite accurate and true in the portrayal. This lawful.

An individual may fraudulently (falsely) impersonate another for purposes of obtaining financial or other gain or evading the law. This is unlawful, generally speaking.

Oswald was fraudulently impersonated over the telephone in Mexico City, apparently, and possibly impersonated in person there also. Perhaps the CIA was making use of Oswald's identity. If so, the use could have been in furtherance of legitimate CIA activities in MC. Does anyone know for sure? It isn't necessary to assume the impersonation of Oswald in MC was tied to the assassination. The story of Oswald's alleged bus trip to MC was tied to the assassination. But clumsily. The material found tucked in a book by Ruth Paine, which indicated Oswald had traveled south of the border by bus, she didn't allegedly find until well into 1964.

I admire the work David Josephs has done on the Mexico City affair.

At the end of the day, I think the affair is a distraction, does nothing to show Oswald (Marina's husband) was working for some intelligence service, and is a dead end insofar as the JFK assassination is concerned.

Jon,

Since you joined the forum, I've learned from you that the fact that (Marina's future husband?) Oswald's MOS was Aviation Electronics Operator (aka radar operator) and that he was privy to at least some information about the U-2 wouldn't have made Oswald (future husband of Marina) a person of interest and even less a person of value to the KGB, the fact that Oswald (Marina's future husband?) got into Russia so easily from Finland was simply because he bought the deluxe Intourist package and the Russians were really desperate to get their hands on good 'ol American sawbucks, the fact that Oswald (Marina's future husband?) told Consul Richard Snyder that he had already told a Russian official that he was willing to give them "information, including something of special significance interest" after they gave him Russian citizenship (which they never did) but was not detained by the Marine guards at the Embassy for threatening to commit treason or sabotage against the U.S. because, well, it was already after 12 noon on a Saturday and the Embassy was closed (I'm taking the liberty of supplying that reason for you here, Mr. Tidd), and now the fact that Oswald (Marina's husband?) was not impersonated over the phone in Mexico City because, because..... (I've already forgotten your reasoning on that one).

Thank you for "opening my eyes."

But don't be surprised if I have some rather "sticky" questions for you on these, as well as other Oswald (i.e., the husband of Marina) subjects in the relatively near future. For example: why did the State Department make it so easy for Oswald (Marina's husband?) and Marina (Oswald's wife?) to leave Russia and go to America, even going so far as lending Oswald money to cover transportation costs?

Wait! I think I know your answer already: " To get him out of their hair, and, well, he was still and American citizen."

And .........

Tommy

Regardless, it does seem that you're well on the way to solving the crime. All you gotta do is combine the Edwin Walker Masterminded It Theory with the Harvey and Lee and Henry Theory and throw in a lot of Oswald Was Just An "Odd Duck" Theory .... and you've got it!

PS Had a chance to read all of Oswald and the CIA and Deep Politics and the Death of JFK and State Secret yet? Or do you consider these books to be only "distractions"? Or is it too early to jump to that conclusion because you've only read the bits in Deep Politics about drug smuggling?

Edited March 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[David Josephs]

Oswald's MOS was Aviation Electronics Operator (aka radar operator)

yes indeed it was... yet Folsom Exhibit #1 p7 states that his prefernece of duty and his recommended Duty assignment is "Aircraft Maintenance and Repair"

Page 3 of the same exhibit shows his primary duty was Aviation Electronics Operator (AvnElectOper)

I can't tell if Tommy here is being sarcastic or sincere since he seems to be more concerned with commenting on rather than researching the topic.

The real question to ask is why the Russians allowed Marina to leave so easily... Sometime we need to remember to look at the events in a FORWARD chronology without the benefit of hindsight.

What was known of Oswald and by whom leading up to these events and how does that fit into the evidence of their actions, is to me a more fruitful way to look at the evidence. What we know now based on whatever "evidence" we've seen cannot be attributed to the miondset of those in it day to day at the time.

State, FBi and CIA along with IN&S/Customs were together for a lot of the evidence creation. If Oswald was part of a spying program one would think we'd make sure our own people didn't mess it up for him.

Continue doing what you're doing Jon... you have a great mind and ask wonderful questions....

Tommy is just Tommy, sunshine and all...

[Thomas Graves]

Oswald's MOS was Aviation Electronics Operator (aka radar operator)

yes indeed it was... yet Folsom Exhibit #1 p7 states that his prefernece of duty and his recommended Duty assignment is "Aircraft Maintenance and Repair"

Page 3 of the same exhibit shows his primary duty was Aviation Electronics Operator (AvnElectOper)

I can't tell if Tommy here is being sarcastic or sincere since he seems to be more concerned with commenting on rather than researching the topic.

The real question to ask is why the Russians allowed Marina to leave so easily... Sometime we need to remember to look at the events in a FORWARD chronology without the benefit of hindsight.

What was known of Oswald and by whom leading up to these events and how does that fit into the evidence of their actions, is to me a more fruitful way to look at the evidence. What we know now based on whatever "evidence" we've seen cannot be attributed to the miondset of those in it day to day at the time.

State, FBi and CIA along with IN&S/Customs were together for a lot of the evidence creation. If Oswald was part of a spying program one would think we'd make sure our own people didn't mess it up for him.

Continue doing what you're doing Jon... you have a great mind and ask wonderful questions....

Tommy is just Tommy, sunshine and all...

Actually, Jo Jo, you got lucky, babe, because that is an important question.

The fascinating thing is that Marina's being allowed to leave Russia was such a protracted process. She in particular and to a lesser extent "her husband" (Lee, Harvey, Henry?-- I get so confused!) had to jump through a lot of bureaucratic "hoops" for her to get out. Regardless, the fact that her uncle was a high-level MKVD officer and she was still permitted to leave after jumping through all those "hoops" is fascinating and, well, just a tad suspicious. Maybe the Ruskies dragged it out so long to try to make it look a bit more "natural" and "innocent"?

Keep up the good work Jo Jo.

--Tommy

PS Thanks, Jo Jo! You mean I was actually right about something I wrote about from memory (Oswald's MOS) ??? I mean, maybe just partly right. OK, just a teensie-weensie bit about? Darn, how about.......

Edited March 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[David Josephs]

Have you read my Mexico work at CTKA Tommy?

[Thomas Graves]

Oswald's MOS was Aviation Electronics Operator (aka radar operator)

yes indeed it was... yet Folsom Exhibit #1 p7 states that his prefernece of duty and his recommended Duty assignment is "Aircraft Maintenance and Repair"

Page 3 of the same exhibit shows his primary duty was Aviation Electronics Operator (AvnElectOper)

I can't tell if Tommy here is being sarcastic or sincere since he seems to be more concerned with commenting on rather than researching the topic.

The real question to ask is why the Russians allowed Marina to leave so easily... Sometime we need to remember to look at the events in a FORWARD chronology without the benefit of hindsight.

What was known of Oswald and by whom leading up to these events and how does that fit into the evidence of their actions, is to me a more fruitful way to look at the evidence. What we know now based on whatever "evidence" we've seen cannot be attributed to the miondset of those in it day to day at the time.

State, FBi and CIA along with IN&S/Customs were together for a lot of the evidence creation. If Oswald was part of a spying program one would think we'd make sure our own people didn't mess it up for him.

Continue doing what you're doing Jon... you have a great mind and ask wonderful questions....

Tommy is just Tommy, sunshine and all...

[emphasis added by T. Graves]

Actually, Jo Jo, you got lucky, babe, because that is an important question.

The fascinating thing is that Marina's being allowed to leave Russia was such a protracted process. She in particular and to a lesser extent "her husband" (Lee, Harvey, Henry?-- I get so confused!) had to jump through a lot of bureaucratic "hoops" for her to get out. Regardless, the fact that her uncle was a high-level MKVD officer and she was still permitted to leave after jumping through all those "hoops" is fascinating and, well, just a tad suspicious. Maybe the Ruskies dragged it out so long to try to make it look a bit more "natural" and "innocent"?

Keep up the good work Jo Jo.

--Tommy

PS Thanks, Jo Jo! You mean I was actually right about something I wrote about from memory (Oswald's MOS) ??? I mean, maybe just partly right. OK, just a teensie-weensie bit about? Darn, how about.......

Bumped with a reply already.

No I haven't JO JO.

Does it by any chance get into what I call the "Genetically-Engineered Lee and Harvey and Henry Theory"?

BTW, What do you think about what I wrote in response to..... [hint: Marina, the possible wife of "Oswald" lol ]

Edited March 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Is impersonation always false?

An entertainer may impersonate (imitate) a well-known person and be quite accurate and true in the portrayal. This lawful.

An individual may fraudulently (falsely) impersonate another for purposes of obtaining financial or other gain or evading the law. This is unlawful, generally speaking.

Oswald was fraudulently impersonated over the telephone in Mexico City, apparently, and possibly impersonated in person there also. Perhaps the CIA was making use of Oswald's identity. If so, the use could have been in furtherance of legitimate CIA activities in MC. Does anyone know for sure? It isn't necessary to assume the impersonation of Oswald in MC was tied to the assassination. The story of Oswald's alleged bus trip to MC was tied to the assassination. But clumsily. The material found tucked in a book by Ruth Paine, which indicated Oswald had traveled south of the border by bus, she didn't allegedly find until well into 1964.

I admire the work David Josephs has done on the Mexico City affair.

At the end of the day, I think the affair is a distraction, does nothing to show Oswald (Marina's husband) was working for some intelligence service, and is a dead end insofar as the JFK assassination is concerned.

Jon,

Since you joined the forum, I've learned from you that the fact that (Marina's future husband?) Oswald's MOS was Aviation Electronics Operator (aka radar operator) and that he was privy to at least some information about the U-2 wouldn't have made Oswald (future husband of Marina) a person of interest and even less so a "person of value" to the KGB, the fact that Oswald (Marina's future husband?) got into Russia so easily from Finland was simply because he bought the deluxe Intourist package and the Russians were really desperate to get their hands on good 'ol American sawbucks, the fact that Oswald (Marina's future husband?) told Consul Richard Snyder that he had already told a Russian official that he was willing to give them "information, including something of special significance interest" after they gave him Russian citizenship (which they never did) but was not detained by the Marine guards at the Embassy for threatening to commit treason or sabotage against the U.S. because, well, it was already after 12 noon on a Saturday and the Embassy was closed (I'm taking the liberty of supplying that reason for you here, Mr. Tidd), and now the fact that Oswald (Marina's husband?) was not impersonated over the phone in Mexico City because, because..... (I've already forgotten your reasoning on that one).

Thank you for "opening my eyes."

But don't be surprised if I have some rather "sticky" questions for you on these, as well as other Oswald (i.e., the husband of Marina) subjects in the relatively near future. For example: Why did the State Department make it so easy for Oswald (Marina's husband?) and Marina (Oswald's wife?) to leave Russia and go to America, even going so far as lending Oswald money to cover transportation costs?

Wait! I think I know your answer already: " To get him / them out of their hair, and, well, he was still an American citizen, so the State Department was obligated to expedite his reentry, if not his repatriation."

And .........

Tommy

Regardless, it does seem that you're well on the way to solving the crime. All you gotta do is combine the Edwin Walker Masterminded It Theory with the Genetically-Engineered Harvey and Lee and Henry Theory and throw in a lot of Oswald Was Just An "Odd Duck" Theory .... and you've got it! LOL

PS Have you had a chance to read all of Oswald and the CIA and Deep Politics and the Death of JFK and State Secret yet? Or do you consider these books to be "distractions"?

bumped for Jon G. Tidd

PS You realize of course that the author of Oswald and the CIA, John Newman, was a fairly high-level Army Intelligence guy himself back in the day?

Edited March 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Paul - I recall Simpich saying he was 'agnostic' on whether Oswald was ever in MC. Is that you memory as well?

Simpich has given us his very valuable opinion that Morales is the likely suspect for arranging the Oswald impersonation. Paul, you seem to have no trouble melding that with your Walker theory, despite the fact that there is zero evidence (anyone feel free to correct me on this) that Morales intersected with Walker, or even Banister. Meanwhile, we know for a certain fact that Morales worked for Phillips, and Angleton, and was the top operations officer in the CIA at that time, working out of Miami Station, no doubt well known to Shackley, Helms, JC King and the like.

Graves makes an excellent point, and comes up with a possibility I had not thought of. My suspicion, which Simpich never responded to when I queried him, was that the mole hunt was a misdirection, providing cover for Angleton and Goodpasture who themselves arranged the impersonation of Oswald. No one would ever suspect them if they left a paper trail suggesting that they were mystified at who impersonated Oswald. Graves [ actually Jon G. Tidd ; Paul B. mistook my flippant, rhetorical reply to Tidd as being sincere. --TG] suggests that the paper trail was laid after the fact. [i'm actually staying with the 'real time' scenario for now, just changing my focus from the mysterious 'usual suspects' to Angleton and Goodpasture and Phillips and their buddies. --TG] Perhaps we are saying the same thing.

Paul Trejo ran with the discovery by Simpich, (credit to Scott and Newman as well) jumping immediately to the conclusion that the mole hunt proves that top level CIA brass were innocent, and that Morales must have gone rogue. Somehow this lead to Walker in Paul's mind. I argued with Trejo in the past that Morales was a loyal and trusted operational CIA officer, high up the chain, and that his possible involvement in setting up Oswald in MC, by linking him to Kostikov, implicated those above him in the chain if command. So like Graves [Tidd, actually, originally. But include me now, too. --TG] I am suspicious of the mole hunt itself. It's just another layer of the onion in my opinion.

[emphasis added by T. Graves]

Excellent post, Paul Brancato. You are very good at analyzing and synthesizing here.

I can't take any credit, however, because I was actually disagreeing flippantly with Jon for his suggesting that the impersonations themselves never took place over the phone. So if this particular theory turns out to have "legs," we're gonna be giving kudos to Mr. Jon G. Tidd for having suggested, although rather rhetorically, that the impersonations were themselves "faked" or "false". I.e., were not real impersonations, but impersonations of impersonations. I think that's brilliant, actually.

This thread is becoming very dialectical. And I like it...

--Tommy

PS I'm starting to like your apparently-emerging scenario in which Angleton and Goodpasture managed, for assassination purposes, the creation of the so-called "fake" Oswald impersonations not after, but actually on, (if that's what you're suggesting) September 28 and October 1, 1963 in order to give them plausible deniability later, if needed. This ties in with the almost unthinkable question Newman briefly poses as to whether or not the Russian personnel in the Russian Mexico City Embassy were impersonated in the Saturday, September 28, phone call, along with "Duran" and the unnamed "American" guy.

Unthinkable because it would suggest that a small part of the the CIA was trying to fool the .... uh.... CIA.

Bumped because Paul B's is the best post on this thread so far and because I've just now added a "PS" to my reply.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Paul - I recall Simpich saying he was 'agnostic' on whether Oswald was ever in MC. Is that you memory as well?

Simpich has given us his very valuable opinion that Morales is the likely suspect for arranging the Oswald impersonation. Paul, you seem to have no trouble melding that with your Walker theory, despite the fact that there is zero evidence (anyone feel free to correct me on this) that Morales intersected with Walker, or even Banister. Meanwhile, we know for a certain fact that Morales worked for Phillips, and Angleton, and was the top operations officer in the CIA at that time, working out of Miami Station, no doubt well known to Shackley, Helms, JC King and the like.

Graves makes an excellent point, and comes up with a possibility I had not thought of. My suspicion, which Simpich never responded to when I queried him, was that the mole hunt was a misdirection, providing cover for Angleton and Goodpasture who themselves arranged the impersonation of Oswald. No one would ever suspect them if they left a paper trail suggesting that they were mystified at who impersonated Oswald. Graves suggests that the paper trail was laid after the fact. Perhaps we are saying the same thing.

Paul Trejo ran with the discovery by Simpich, (credit to Scott and Newman as well) jumping immediately to the conclusion that the mole hunt proves that top level CIA brass were innocent, and that Morales must have gone rogue. Somehow this lead to Walker in Paul's mind. I argued with Trejo in the past that Morales was a loyal and trusted operational CIA officer, high up the chain, and that his possible involvement in setting up Oswald in MC, by linking him to Kostikov, implicated those above him in the chain if command. So like Graves I am suspicious of the mole hunt itself. It's just another layer of the onion in my opinion.

Well, Paul B., you claim that "there is zero evidence...that Morales intersected with Walker, or even Banister."

Perhaps you missed the exchange between Larry Hancock and me, when I cited Joan Mellen's Farewell to Justice (2005) in which she described a meeting outside of New Orleans in the Town & Country Motel owned by Carlos Marcello, attended by Guy Banister, David Ferrie, Clay Shaw, Fred Crisman, Jack S. Martin, Carlos Marcello, Thomas Beckham and others, where they discussed what to do about the "treason" of JFK for considering rapprochement with Fidel Castro through William Attwood.

The data about Atwood and Castro was classified, Top Secret, known only to the CIA -- and thus to David Morales and perhaps not even to all the trusted CIA Exiles with whom Morales worked. This secret of the Atwood scandal which should have been kept within the CIA was known to Guy Banister. How? There were only two CIA officers who confessed to some participation in the JFK murder -- Morales and Hunt -- and David Morales would be my top choice.

You claim, Paul B., that "we know for a certain fact that Morales worked for Phillips, and Angleton." Yet, the truth is that you don't really know how loyal David Morales truly was to his CIA leaders, even including Shackley, Helms, JC King and the like. Nobody else confessed except Howard Hunt. (Frank Sturgis doesn't count here since he was never a CIA officer.)

The notion that the MOLE HUNT was a "misdirection" is ludicrous -- a MOLE HUNT contains misdirection for underlings, because by definition it is Top Secret. Nobody would create a Top Secret MOLE HUNT to add yet another layer of "misdirection." It would be pointless.

Bill Simpich's painstaking discovery of the MOLE HUNT scenario (beyond anything Newman or Scott ever wrote) is very strong evidence that Top Level CIA brass are innocent of the OSWALD IMPERSONATION and any link that it might have to the JFK murder.

I argue that David Morales finally cracked -- the Cold War and all his Bay of Pigs memories kept haunting him for years. He blamed JFK. He finally heard that an authentic plot to murder JFK was being planned in New Orleans. He decided -- ON HIS OWN -- to toss his two bits into the hat.

First, Morales stirred the pot by telling Guy Banister and his crew about the top-secret William Atwood talks being proposed by JFK. Then, the IMPERSONATION of OSWALD and DURAN in Mexico City was his second contribution -- and the Top Brass of the CIA went nuts -- and started a MOLE HUNT.

My opinion doesn't require an extra layer of misdirection. I rest my case on Common Sense. David Morales and his little crew in Mexico City tried to link OSWALD's name with the name of a notorious KGB Agent. They failed, because the CIA immediately recognized that it was an IMPERSONATION.

The only fall-out from that MOLE-HUNT for the Warren Commission is that when the CIA 201 File was finally given to the FBI (on behalf of the Warren Commission), it had the photograph of *somebody else* (because of the MOLE-HUNT) and OSWALD's middle name was changed to *Henry* (because of the MOLE-HUNT) and sundry minor facts were changed in that file (because of the MOLE-HUNT).

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited March 7, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Paul - I recall Simpich saying he was 'agnostic' on whether Oswald was ever in MC. Is that you memory as well?

Simpich has given us his very valuable opinion that Morales is the likely suspect for arranging the Oswald impersonation. Paul, you seem to have no trouble melding that with your Walker theory, despite the fact that there is zero evidence (anyone feel free to correct me on this) that Morales intersected with Walker, or even Banister. Meanwhile, we know for a certain fact that Morales worked for Phillips, and Angleton, and was the top operations officer in the CIA at that time, working out of Miami Station, no doubt well known to Shackley, Helms, JC King and the like.

Graves makes an excellent point, and comes up with a possibility I had not thought of. My suspicion, which Simpich never responded to when I queried him, was that the mole hunt was a misdirection, providing cover for Angleton and Goodpasture who themselves arranged the impersonation of Oswald. No one would ever suspect them if they left a paper trail suggesting that they were mystified at who impersonated Oswald. Graves [ actually Jon G. Tidd ; Paul B. mistook my flippant, rhetorical reply to Tidd as being sincere. --TG] suggests that the paper trail was laid after the fact. [i'm actually staying with the 'real time' scenario for now, just changing my focus from the mysterious 'usual suspects' to Angleton and Goodpasture and Phillips and Morales and their buddies. --TG] Perhaps we are saying the same thing.

Paul Trejo ran with the discovery by Simpich, (credit to Scott and Newman as well) jumping immediately to the conclusion that the mole hunt proves that top level CIA brass were innocent, and that Morales must have gone rogue. Somehow this lead to Walker in Paul's mind. I argued with Trejo in the past that Morales was a loyal and trusted operational CIA officer, high up the chain, and that his possible involvement in setting up Oswald in MC, by linking him to Kostikov, implicated those above him in the chain if command. So like Graves [Tidd, actually, originally. But include me now, too. --TG] I am suspicious of the mole hunt itself. It's just another layer of the onion in my opinion.

[emphasis added by T. Graves]

Excellent post, Paul Brancato. You are very good at analyzing and synthesizing here.

I can't take any credit, however, because I was actually disagreeing flippantly with Jon for his suggesting that the impersonations themselves never took place over the phone. So if this particular theory turns out to have "legs," we're gonna be giving kudos to Mr. Jon G. Tidd for having suggested, although rather rhetorically, that the impersonations were themselves "faked" or "false". I.e., were not real impersonations, but impersonations of impersonations. I think that's brilliant, actually.

This thread is becoming very dialectical. And I like it...

--Tommy

PS I'm starting to like your emerging scenario in which Angleton and Goodpasture and perhaps Phillips and Morales managed, for assassination purposes, "fake" or "false" Oswald impersonations not, I'm thinking, after the assassination, but before October 10 or even possibly on September 28 and October 1, 1963, in order to give them a very convincing and difficult to penetrate layer of "plausible denial-ability." And who knows? -- They might even get lucky and catch a real "mole" in the double-faceted process of 1 ) patsying-up Oswald, and 2 ) planting the time-delayed Kostikov virus for coverup purposes (the creation and implementation of the FBI-run Warren Commission in order to save the lives of 40 million Americans)!

Just think -- Three birds with one stone!

This ties in with the almost unthinkable question Newman briefly poses as to whether or not personnel in the Russian Mexico City Embassy were impersonated, along with "Duran" and the unnamed "American" guy in the Saturday, September 28, phone call. Saturday, a day of the week when the Russian Embassy was practically closed and incoming phone calls were restricted to family members or close friends, and which phone calls tended to be about such mundane matters as an upcoming family picnic and the fact that somebody's uncle had the flu.

Unthinkable because it would suggest that a small part of the the CIA was trying to fool the .... uh.... .......... CIA.

Bumped because Paul B's is the best post on this thread so far and because I've just now added a "PS" to my reply.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Steven Gaal]

Arrested Oswald said he never went to Mexico. The look-a-like (could choose many a word for that phrase) had yellow Mexico shoes. sg

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The Assassinations: Probe Magazine on JFK, MLK, RFK and ...

=

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0922915822

James DiEugenio, ‎Lisa Pease - 2003 - ‎History

Shasteen, an Irving city council member, was Lee Oswald's barber. ... Shasteen noticed Oswald's yellow shoes, which Oswald said he had purchased in Mexico ...

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• Full Text of John Armstrong's 1997 Dallas Conference Speech

  harveyandlee.net/NID97.htm

  • Cached
  • Similar

  The ultimate goal was to switch their identities and send Harvey Oswald into Russia, ...... Shasteen, an Irving city council member, was Lee Oswald's barber. ... Shasteen noticed Oswald's yellow shoes, which Oswald said he had purchased in ...

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  Oswald seen with 14 year old boy per SHASTEEN

  SHASTEEN TESTIMONY

  http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/shasteen.htm

  -----

  At bottom Greg Parker post that needs to be added as an addendum to Spiders Web.

  The Weston ,To Jake Rubenstein, c/o The Carousel Club, article builds on his Spiders Web article and the Parker post adds to that.
  

  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  POST # 1 this thread

  http://educationforu...ic=6017&p=53294

  Although the activities of the schoolbook operatives often overlapped those of Jack Ruby, the only verifiable link was Lee Harvey Oswald. There were many witnesses testifying to an association between Ruby and Oswald, but the most credible is Daniel T. McGown. On March 31, 1963, McGown accidentally found a letter at the Carousel Club addressed to “Jake Rubinstein” with a return address from “Lee Oswald,” at 1106 Diceman Street in Dallas. McGown later confirmed that “Lee Oswald” was indeed Lee Harvey Oswald. [30]
  

  #############################################################

  below Diceman article by Weston

  ##############################################################

  To Jake Rubenstein, c/o The Carousel Club
  
  William Weston
  October 2001
  
  On October 31, 1976, a government agent greeted a gray-haired gentleman who, on his own initiative, came into the FBI office in Memphis, Tennessee. He had a secret about the Kennedy assassination, he said, and he wanted to disclose it. [1]
  The distinguished-looking visitor did not appear to be the type who would know something about the world of spies, pimps, drug dealers, con artists, and other disreputable denizens inhabiting the murky milieu of assassination intrigue. Daniel T. McGown, by anyone's standards, was a pillar of the community, a successful businessman with an honorable career in a prestigious profession. Born in 1908 in Brownwood, Texas, his family moved to Memphis prior to his graduation from high school. After receiving a degree from the School of Architecture at Georgia Tech, he went to work for Schulz & Norton, an architectural and engineering firm in Memphis. In 1941, he married Irma Lee Beasley, a daughter from one of Tennesee's more respectable families. During the course of their marriage, the couple had two children. In 1948, he started his own architectural firm, which over the years grew and prospered. He became president of the local chapter of the American Institute of Architects and was a member of the Calvary Episcopal Church. [2] Family man, businessman, church member, community server, Mr. McGown lived a life that was largely indistinguishable from thousands of other men of his class who lived around the country. However, in that fateful year of 1963, a strange twist of fate had placed within his hands a hitherto unknown secret regarding a connection between Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby.
  The incident occurred during a business trip to Texas in March 1963. McGown had flown to Austin, in order to check over the plans for a new building that was to be constructed on the campus of the University of Texas. When he had completed his survey, he rented a car and drove north to the city of Brownwood, where he spent a day with some relatives. He then drove to Fort Worth, where he visited his first cousin, a prominent attorney in that city. Late in the evening, he used his cousin's telephone to call his wife Irma. He wished her a happy birthday and said that he would see her the next day, when his plane arrived in Memphis. Irma's birthday was March 28.
  McGown left his cousin's house and drove east to Dallas. It was almost midnight when he checked in at the Adolphus Hotel on Commerce Street. After getting settled into his room, he felt like having a nightcap before going to bed. He left his room, went down the elevator to the lobby, and went outside. The brightly lit sign of the Carousel Club beckoned from across the street. He walked over to the club entrance door and opened it. Behind the door was a staircase, leading up to the second floor. When he reached the top of the stairs, he was stopped by a heavy-set man. The club was closing up, the man said, who then complained about city regulations that prevented him from keeping the place open after midnight. [3] Rebuffed by the manager of the club, McGown went back to his room.
  The following morning, McGown decided to do a little sightseeing, since he had a few hours to kill before his plane departed from Dallas. As he was walking down Commerce Street, he paused at the Carousel Club. Near the entrance was a showcase display featuring pictures of female performers. As he was gazing at the pictures, another man who was walking down the street crowded into the entryway to look at them too. It was an awkward moment for McGown as he tried to make room for the other man while at the same time trying to keep a favorable point of view for himself. Presently, the other man turned to leave. As he did so, he brushed by an overstuffed mailbox that hung on the entrance door. A few large pieces of mail, two magazines, and three letters spilled on the ground. The man continued on his way without stopping.
  McGown proceeded to pick up the envelopes and magazines and stuff them back into the box. He noticed that the three letters were written by women and were addressed to "Jake Rubenstein, c/o The Carousel Club." Rubenstein must have been the heavy-set man whom McGown met the previous night. He was probably also the one who hired women to be performers in the club. Perhaps the senders of the three letters were prospective applicants for employment. McGown looked at the envelopes again. Two of the women lived in Fort Worth, and one lived in Dallas. The name on the Dallas letter caught his attention, for he happened to have a friend who had the same last name. [4] After making a mental note of the address, he put the letters back in the box with the rest of the mail. The woman he was planning to visit was "Lee Oswald."
  Using a city map as a guide, McGown drove toward Miss Oswald's place. As he was approaching her street, he looked at the houses in the neighborhood. Expecting to see lower class housing, he was surprised to find upper middle class or upper class residences. McGown wondered about this. Why would anyone living in such an area have any dealings with a strip joint?
  When he arrived at his destination, he stopped the car and looked at it. It was a two-story apartment building, constructed in the cheap, boxy style that was becoming the prevailing fashion at that time. It had an outside stairway that led up to a balcony walk on the second floor. It was a new building, perhaps two or three years old at the most. For the convenience of the postman, there was a mailbox with individual compartments that stood facing the street next to the curb. In order to find the unit that Miss Oswald was renting, McGown got out of his car and looked over the names of the tenants posted on the compartment doors. When he found Oswald's name, he realized that he had made a mistake. The middle name of Lee Harvey Oswald showed that this person was not a woman. Without further ado, McGown got back into his car and drove away.
  Eight months later, when the names of Lee Oswald and Jack Ruby were being broadcasted on radio and television, the details of this episode came vividly back to his memory. Should he tell the authorities what he knew, or should he not? His reputation might suffer if this embarrassing incident ever became widely known. He hoped that the authorities would find out about Oswald's connection to Jack Ruby without his help. When the Warren Report was published, he bought a copy and read it from cover to cover. There was nothing in it to indicate that the government knew what he knew. Furthermore he read that the commission could find no "credible evidence" of an association between Oswald and Ruby. After the death of Jack Ruby in January 1967, McGown wondered if he was the only one left who still had the "credible evidence" that eluded the Warren Commission. Finally, nine years later, he told his wife about it. She encouraged him to go to the FBI. After all, his story might make a difference in the new, upcoming investigation into the JFK assassination that Congress was preparing to launch. Such were the circumstances that led Daniel T. McGown to the local office of the FBI in 1976.
  The FBI of course wanted to know where the apartment was. McGown could not remember its exact location, but he drew a diagram depicting the apartment in relation to the mailbox out front, as well as in relation to a nearby apartment that faced another street. He remembered that the address had four digits and sounded something like "Diceland." A Dallas city map showed that there were was no street with the name of "Diceland," but there were two with the name of "Diceman." One was Diceman Drive, and the other was Diceman Avenue.
  Dallas FBI agent Robert Gemberling drove out to Diceman Drive to see if there were any apartments matching McGown's diagram and description. Diceman Drive had single-family houses but no apartments. A few inquiries among the residents showed that no apartment had ever existed on that street.
  Next stop was Diceman Avenue. Gemberling looked from one end of the avenue to the other, and the only dwellings that he could see were single-family homes - with one exception. At the point where Diceman ran into Cedar Crest Boulevard was a two-story building made of brick. It was the Cedar Crest Heights Apartment. It had a second floor balcony walk with an iron railing just as McGown described it. Next to the curb was a large mailbox with sixteen key-locked compartments with tenant nametags. Adjacent to the building was another apartment facing Birdsong Street. The apartment at 1106 Diceman Avenue must be the place that McGown had visited in 1963. There was no other possibility. Still, Gemberling was not satisfied. He noticed that all the buildings in the neighborhood were rundown, dilapidated, and occupied entirely by lower-class blacks. This was not the upper class neighborhood that McGown claimed to have seen.
  Gemberling looked for the manager. He found him at a nearby office at 2514 Birdsong Avenue. The manager told him that the apartment was owned by a company called General Rental. It was built around 1959 or 1960, and it was the only apartment that had ever been on that street. The mailbox seen out front had been there since the apartment was first constructed. So far these extra details provided additional confirmation for McGown's story. Gemberling wanted to see the tenant records for 1963, but the manager told them that they no longer existed. They were destroyed with all the other tenant records in a fire that occurred in April 1968. Gemberling asked the manager if he knew anything about Oswald living in the apartment in 1963. Although the manager acknowledged that he had only been working for General Rental since 1969, he was nevertheless positive that Oswald could not have lived in the apartment in 1963. In an all-black neighborhood, people would have certainly remembered Oswald as the only white man living among them, and such was not the case.
  Apparently the manager's statement was enough to convince Gemberling that the 1106 Diceman lead was a dead end. No further inquiries were made, as far as the available records show. (There are however some "postponed in full" documents from the Memphis office of the FBI regarding a "Daniel McGowen" that are now in the National Archives.) To find out more about the apartment, I checked the 1963 Dallas criss-cross directory and found a former tenant by the name of Orlean Dorsey. I located Dorsey in Lufkin, Texas and called him up. Contrary to what the General Rental manager told Gemberling, Dorsey, who is black, said it was not an all-black apartment in 1963. Both white and black people lived there. Furthermore, the apartment was indeed located in a prestigious area. About a mile south of the apartment was the Lakeview Golf Course, where Dorsey worked as a landscape and maintenance man. Among the celebrities who played golf there were such baseball legends as Mickey Mantle and "Dizzy" Dean. At that time, the golf course was racially segregated. Whites played there during the day and blacks played at night.
  Not just anyone could live at the Cedar Crest Apartment. A prospective tenant had to have a very good background and excellent references. Dorsey was able to get his unit because he knew the manager, a black named Denny Blair, who often played golf at Lakeview. Blair was an employee of Bailey Rental, a white-owned company that had title to the Diceman apartment. (Bailey Rental was later renamed General Rental.)
  The Cedar Crest Apartment was an expensive place to live. It took all of Dorsey's wages to pay the rent. He was making $1.25 per hour and the rent was about $210 per month. The only way he could afford to live there was by working a lot of overtime on the weekends. By way of comparison, Oswald was making $1.35 per hour at Jaggers Chiles Stovall during the month of March 1963, and he was paying $72.68 a month for a one-bedroom flat at the Neely Street house. [5]
  Dorsey and his family moved into the apartment in November 1962. Because of his long working hours and because he was going to plumbing school at the same time, he did not get to know the other tenants. His wife and children also did not do much socializing. Thus he was unable to confirm or deny whether Oswald lived there. Dorsey and his family moved to another apartment in October 1963.
  The transition from an affluent, mainly white neighborhood to black lower class ghetto occurred during the mid-1960's, according to Dorsey who would come back to visit his former apartment from time to time. The quality of the building and the surrounding area deteriorated as a result of vandalism and neglect. When I called the General Rental office in 1995, I found out that the apartment was still owned by the Bailey family. I also learned that rent was only $50 per week - a real bargain for anyone brave enough to live there.
  Did Oswald live at the Cedar Crest Apartment? Considering the high cost of rent in 1963, it is unlikely he would have chosen to live there. A more reasonable possibility is that he used the address simply to receive his mail. As a man astute in the ways of intelligence, he no doubt realized that a mailbox at the post office was under surveillance. A second mailbox in another area would be highly useful for receiving mail from more sensitive sources. This line of reasoning is supported by the fact that most of the units at 1106 Diceman were listed as "vacant" in the criss-cross directories of 1962 and 1963. In 1962 only five of the sixteen units available were occupied. This ratio dropped to only four occupied units the following year. An apartment manager with a 75% vacancy rate might let someone temporarily use an unused mailbox for a small fee.
  It is interesting to note that on March 29, the day that McGown was at the Diceman apartment, Oswald was seen at a barbershop in Sparta, Wisconsin. Oswald told John Abbott, the barber, that he got his money by blackmailing a Texas nightclub operator, for whom he had previously worked. Each time he made a contact with this man, he would get fifty dollars. The money he obtained would be used to cover his travelling expenses. (He never gave the name of the nightclub operator.) Perhaps the Oswald letter that McGown saw was another demand for more money.
  McGown's story lends credence to the story of a connection between Ruby and Oswald in the May 17 edition of the National Enquirer. It said: "After a sniper shot at but missed General Walker in Dallas, April 10, 1963, Dallas police suspected that Oswald was the sniper and Ruby was the payoff man. The cops were set to arrest the pair. But they never got the chance, because of heavy pressure brought to bear by the Justice Dept. and so Oswald and Ruby were to remain free." The article also said that a top secret document, signed by a high official of the Justice Dept., was sent in April 1963 to Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry requesting the police not to arrest Oswald and Ruby. This document was reportedly in the hands of the Warren Commission.
  Given the potentially explosive implications of the above story, it is no wonder that the Warren Commission chose to discount all witnesses to a connection between Oswald and Ruby, including Wilburn Litchfield, Joe Franklin, and Bill DeMar. McGown's story is not only important in rehabilitating the credibility of these undeservedly maligned witnesses, but it also provides a glimpse into the covert ways by which Oswald and Ruby communicated with one another.
  
  
  ENDNOTES
  
  1. Sources for this article were FBI reports in Memphis and Dallas. Also referred to were ten pages of McGown's hand-written account that was photocopied by the FBI.
  2. Engagement announcement, Sept. 14, 1941; wedding announcement, Dec. 3, 1941, and obituary of Daniel T. McGown, March 5, 1985, in the Memphis newspaper, The Commercial Appeal.
  3. According to Jack Ruby's bartender, Andrew Armstrong, clean up started at midnight on weeknights and at 1:00 am on Saturday and Sunday. All bottles and glasses had to be cleared off the tables by 12:15. If a vice squad police officer saw anyone drinking after 12:15, he could slap a five-day suspension on the club (Vol. 13 of the Warren Commission Hearings and Exhibits, p. 325).
  4. Actually the friend's surname had a slightly different spelling. Felix Oswalt, a member of the Board of Education in Memphis, was the friend McGown was talking about.
  5. Warren Report, p. 743.
  
  ____________________________________________________________

  (Gaal comments below on above article)
  A professional man is traveling alone and
  sees an opportunity to meet strippers.
  
  Eight months later, when the names of Lee Oswald and Jack Ruby were being broadcasted on radio and television, the details of this episode came vividly back to his memory. Should he tell the authorities what he knew, or should he not? His reputation might suffer if this embarrassing incident ever became widely known. He hoped that the authorities would find out about Oswald's connection to Jack Ruby without his help. When the Warren Report was published, he bought a copy and read it from cover to cover. There was nothing in it to indicate that the government knew what he knew. Furthermore he read that the commission could find no "credible evidence" of an association between Oswald and Ruby. After the death of Jack Ruby in January 1967, McGown wondered if he was the only one left who still had the "credible evidence" that eluded the Warren Commission. Finally, nine years later, he told his wife about it. She encouraged him to go to the FBI. After all, his story might make a difference in the new, upcoming investigation into the JFK assassination that Congress was preparing to launch. Such were the circumstances that led Daniel T. McGown to the local office of the FBI in 1976.
  **********************************************

  (Gaal)
  PAUSE AND REFLECT
  PAUSE AND REFLECT
  PAUSE AND REFLECT ...............
  What would motivate a professional married man to contact the FBI (in the early 1960s timeframe) and say he ," improperly looked at US Mail and wanted to 'hunt' down a stripper." ????
  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
  Answer ZERO . No motivation to make up this story.

  ############
  ############
  ############

  Greg Parker

  Posted 06 September 2012 - 12:40 AM

  Back in 2001, I made the following post to a news group:
  
  
  

  Quote

  Quote

  DPD Criminal Intel Report on narcotics filed on Boxing Day,
  1963 in summary states:
  
  From confidential source:
  Everett Edward Burnett DPD# 31924 and Robert Ray Jordon DPD#
  30119 recently robbed an unknown Mexican from San Antonio,
  Texas of 2.5 ounces of heroin.
  Source further stated that these two men have also been
  committing drug store burglaries.
  They live in an apartment house on Gaston Ave. Exact address
  unknown.
  Informant further stated that Everett Edward Burnett is a
  homosexual and has had unnatural sex relations with Jack
  Leon Ruby.
  
  

  
  http://jfk.ci.dallas...39/3936-001.gif
  
  On pages 4 and 5 of this doc, the FBI has Pike saying that Ruby liked to "surround himself with clean-cut, well-dressed "Hollywood-type" men to make himself feel important.
  http://www.maryferre...717&relPageId=5
  
  What immediately struck me about that was at least one of Ruby's prison psych's put in his report that Ruby thought Oswald looked like Paul Newman,
  
  It's also mentioned here:
  http://www.maryferre...bsPageId=367099

  ================================================ also add

  http://spartacus-edu...JFKcheramie.htm

  Rose Cheramie

  　

  Rose Cheramie (Cherami) was found unconsciousness by the side of the road at Eunice, Louisiana, on 20th November, 1963. Lieutenant Francis Frugé of the Louisiana State Police took her to the state hospital. On the journey Cheramie said that she had been thrown out of a car by two gangsters who worked for Jack Ruby. She claimed that the men were involved in a plot to kill John F. Kennedy. Cheramie added that Kennedy would be killed in Dallas within a few days. Later she told the same story to doctors and nurses who treated her. As she appeared to be under the influence of drugs her story was ignored.

  Following the assassination, Cheramie was interviewed by the police. She claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald had visited Ruby's night club. In fact, she believed the two men were having a homosexual relationship.

  #################

  #################

  http://educationforu...ic=5074&p=41488 ( part of HOMOSEXUAL THREAD)

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Was Oswald an Intelligence Agent? yes recruited by homosexual blackmail as a young boy. > Ruby thought Oswald looked like Paul Newman <

Edited March 7, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[David Andrews]

"What immediately struck me about that was at least one of Ruby's prison psych's put in his report that Ruby thought Oswald looked like Paul Newman,"

Interestingly, it was actually Clay Shaw who looked like Paul Newman:

Edited March 8, 2015 by David Andrews

[Paul Brancato]

Paul - what is Mellen's source for this meeting?

Besides, you made a leap of faith in order to connect your gang of villains with Morales, without a shred of actual evidence. Face it man, your grasping at straws. If Morales was involved it leads upwards in the CIA, not outwards to the crazy New Orleans crew.

As for Mellen, she lost me when she pushed Otepka's story at face value. How can I take her seriously after that? Otepka convinced her that he was the good guy, and the Kennedy's brought him down and ruined him because he was looking into LHO's defection. It should have been obvious to her that the place to look was in Otepka's direct connection to the enemies of the Kennedys in the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee and William Pawley and his Operation Red Cross.