Judyth Baker

[Allan Eaglesham]

Excellent posts from Dixie and Bernice.

Thank you both.

Allan

[Nancy Eldreth]

What are you trying to do Allen find out hidden info???????????

Can't help but ask this??????

I started to write an asnwer back only about six times more than I ever went to write something down and erased all of them each time because of what I do know.

That is as far as I will go for now.

Outline

Judyth does have a dragon after her.

She does have a hidden email address.

She is not where most think she is.

She is hidding.

She did run from the police only about six weeks ago.

She took ten per cent of papers with her.

She did get a smuggled message from me.

She didn't answer one of the questions on it.

She did steal a tape recorder with blank tape she filled it for sure.

She doesn't want me to know her new email address I DO

She will change it again if I find it OH WELL SO WHAT? I Know it.

She wrote all together five books and two were accepted for pub. One was some time ago.

She did inject prisoners and watched them.

She left the notes there ON IT.

She left more than her degree to help her.

IS SHE NUTS? OH NO, SHE IS JUST AFRAID

Judyth I know it like this just the blunt facts and not the materails and YES THEY HAVE KEPT THEIR WORD. NOTHING SHOWN OUT. I wish the heck it could be.

What was it that you really ran from then,

OF WHAT? THE POLICE OR THE TWO THREATING EMAILS?????

We need a pear tree?????????????

Well it isn't Christmas........YET...........

[James Richards]

Thanks Dixie for your response.

One thing about Judyth's story I have never been able to figure out. If she was indeed working on some cancer inducing virus which was to be used to kill Castro, then there is no way she would have been told who the victim was going to be. She would have worked with no information as to the weapon's ultimate use. This type of activity is definitely conducted on a 'need to know'. That's just the way it is.

James

[Shanet Clark]

Shanet wrote:

With so much of the story classified (and so many witnesses murdered) we have to loosen our historical standards a little, to get at the truth.

Dixie wrote:

. . . I am astonished that you not only believe Judyth, but also sugggest those of us who do not believe her, should lower our standards, in order to do so.

Dixie, nothing should astonish you with respect to what Shanet believes.  Lower your historical standards enough and you will believe ANYTHING!

Remember Shanet once posted that he thought Sam Papich was a conspirator!

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Tim

I was never named as part of the group manipulating ARTHUR BREMER.

I was not part of the 1972 CREEP dirty tricks campaign.

I don't believe ANGLETON or HELMS or repeat their theories here.

YOU DO !

[Tim Gratz]

Shanet wrote:

I was never named as part of the group manipulating ARTHUR BREMER.

Shanet, perhaps the fact that I WAS has increased my sensitivity to times that you and others make baseless charges against people. And if you even think I had anything to do with Bremer, that is only additional verification that you lack judgment.

I was not part of the 1972 CREEP dirty tricks campaign.

Shanet, what's your point here? Neither was I. Neither, so far as I know, was any other member of this Forum. The fact that you insert a meaningless sentence just further proves that you lack any semblance of logic.

I don't believe ANGLETON or HELMS or repeat their theories here.

I am not a big fan of Helms. But Angleton was right about many things.

[Charles Black]

Thanks Dixie for your response.

One thing about Judyth's story I have never been able to figure out. If she was indeed working on some cancer inducing virus which was to be used to kill Castro, then there is no way she would have been told who the victim was going to be. She would have worked with no information as to the weapon's ultimate use. This type of activity is definitely conducted on a 'need to know'. That's just the way it is.

James

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Hi James

Agree with you in part regarding "need to know" however....we must consider the possibility that, tho the killing of the beard was an agency project, the idea of injecting him with cancer cells may have begun at the bottom and worked its way up!

Charlie Black

[Nancy Eldreth]

I was always under the impression that Frank Sturgis knew who he was to bump off.

I also was under the impression that Judyth always knew this as well. Knew what it was for. Never did I think she didn't know?

One of the papers I gathered from NARA does talk about differ means in which to kill Castro and it was dealing with Roselli in topic.

[John Simkin]

One thing about Judyth's story I have never been able to figure out. If she was indeed working on some cancer inducing virus which was to be used to kill Castro, then there is no way she would have been told who the victim was going to be. She would have worked with no information as to the weapon's ultimate use. This type of activity is definitely conducted on a 'need to know'. That's just the way it is.

Very good point. One of the problems with stories that you get from people like Judyth Baker, James Files and Chauncey Holt, is that they all know too much. As you say, even if they were involved in such a plot, they would only know about a small part of the story. This is why I find John Martino's story so convincing. He only knew what he needed to know. Sure he was free to speculate, but it would have only been speculation. I am not even sure that someone like David Morales knew who he was really working for.

[James Richards]

Hi James

Agree with you in part regarding "need to know" however....we must consider the possibility that, tho the killing of the beard was an agency project, the idea of injecting him with cancer cells may have begun at the bottom and worked its way up! (Charlie Black)

Hi Charlie,

I have no doubts that there was government influence in guiding a project which researched a cancer inducing virus. Whether that was Agency or not, we can only speculate. If we believe there was a possibility that Jack Ruby was injected with such a thing, then that would suggest that a shadowy government department had been working on this for some time.

As for Judyth, I am sure that if she did work on such a project and with the benefit of hindsight, she may have put two and two together. At the time however, no information would have been shared by her sponsors. It would have severely compromised the operation.

Very good point. One of the problems with stories that you get from people like Judyth Baker, James Files and Chauncey Holt, is that they all know too much. As you say, even if they were involved in such a plot, they would only know about a small part of the story. This is why I find John Martino's story so convincing. He only knew what he needed to know. Sure he was free to speculate, but it would have only been speculation. I am not even sure that someone like David Morales knew who he was really working for. (John Simkin)

Indeed, John. Smoke and mirrors, plausible deniability and manipulation is the only way an Intelligence service can operate effectively.

James

[Pat Speer]

Once again, I'm away from my books and forced to work off the top of my head, but I distinctly remember that there was an official government project--was it ARTICHOKE-which sought to test and classify virtually all plant life and determine its poisonous properties. It makes sense that cancer-causing agents would have been identified as a result and studied. The question is whether such government research took place at the Ochsner clinic. My gut instinct says "no." IF Judyth is telling the truth and she and Lee were working on a project with Ferrie, I find it EXTREMELY doubtful their ultimate sponsor was the CIA. Ochsner was an extremist and white supremacist--I recently found a book (from the late 60s even) where the writer advocates sending African-Americans back to Africa in order to solve the ongoing racial tension. I thought it was a bit of a hoot until I noticed that Ochsner was quoted on the back cover saying that the author had the best understanding of America's problems of anyone today blah blah blah... Since we know Ochsner had ties to Murchison, who shared some of these sensibilities, I'd suspect any attempts on Castro using Ochsner's research were funded by the far right. The CIA simply wouldn't have been so sloppy as to let a girl barely out of high school and a known pedophile conduct such important research.

She may be a nice person. She may have known Oswald. She may believe she's telling the truth. But her basic story is highly doubtful and is in my opinion a major distraction from the case.

[Nancy Eldreth]

The one thing that Judyth said that does make sense is this.

"WE got it done and left if where they told them to leave the viles of live cancer and no one ever picked it up." Think it was in Clinton. Something along those lines of meaning.

That says a lot right there. No one ever was going to pick it up either. No one ever intended to pick up something that was made by them. WHY WOULD THEY?

Lee, Ferrie, Judyth. None of them experienced into a field such as this.

Good way to get them together though. Isn't it?

[Guest John Gillespie]

  With all due respect to other members at this cherished site of which I am now fortunate to be part, aren't you engaging in the kind of mindset rigidity of which you accuse others?  For example, the above paragraph is a total shoot from the hip and misrepresents me and a host of others here as having some sort of prejudiced 'position' regarding Ms Baker ("the Holy Grail of the assassination" - yikes).  

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Holy Toledo, Jack. I said that each new person is treated as though they were the HG of the assassination. Don't you recall the day of the Weldon nameless witness whose story was never researched, just accepted by a chosen few as being 'credible'?

Wait a second -- weren't you one of the chosen few on that?

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The Cho sun Soren...

[Pamela Brown]

Very good point. One of the problems with stories that you get from people like Judyth Baker, James Files and Chauncey Holt, is that they all know too much. As you say, even if they were involved in such a plot, they would only know about a small part of the story.

On the one hand, a serious issue with any emerging witness is that researchers create their own environment and claim what *should* be the case and then hold the witness up to their erroneous standard. This has been done repeatedly in regards to Judyth's statements.

At the same time, Judyth has refused to simply remain a witness and has put on the additional hat of researcher. This puts her in a difficult situation where she may in fact have compromised some of her own statements by attempting to connect them to other things.

Nonetheless, if Judyth is bringing forth new information it will add to our understanding of events, and whenever that happens it is valuable.

[John Simkin]

Wim has asked me to post this link that enables you to buy a copy of his interview with Judyth Baker:

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=112

[Pamela Brown]

Wim has asked me to post this link that enables you to buy a copy of his interview with Judyth Baker:

Interesting that different witnesses are subjected to different levels of scrutiny. Whereas Judyth's statements have been subject to ongoing scrutiny, such statements as those of the Weldon witness were swallowed whole by many researchers long before there had been any objective verification of his statements, some of which were quite ridiculous. In fact, accepting anything other than what Mr. Whitaker said was considered a grave failing and any questioning was subject to ridicule both on aaj and the Della Rosa board.

Edited August 25, 2005 by Pamela McElwain-Brown