Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Think about this, folks:

Very cool, Glenn!

No matter where any of us live these days, we see homelessness, if not in our own towns, then when we venture into the larger cities or we see it on the news. It is a tragedy and a travesty in many countries in this day and age. I do not condemn Dean .... he spoke from his own experience and the frustration of trying to run a business with the things he describes going on at his door ... that rather explains why and where he is coming from. I've heard other business owners on the news in Portland expressing the same frustration and experience Dean had ... they lose their businesses, and their homes, because customers don't really want to walk thru body fluids and step over drunk people to go in and eat or shop. And no matter how anyone feels about the homelessness problem, they can certainly see how or why someone comes at it from a different perspective based on their personal experiences. Fetzer has had a whole different experience, and God bless all those who are able to go through homelessness and come out of it better and stronger.

There is a huge variety of people and circumstance that gets lumped under one umbrella ... people who are homeless because of circumstance and trying desperately to get back on their feet, addicts and mentally ill who need medical/mental care, plain old bums, and ... con artists as well. A few years ago, a woman I know and her husband were heading home after an evening out and saw a man standing with a sign and an empty bowl (for money) on a corner. It was a literally freezing night and the man was wearing a t-shirt and jeans. Her husband took off his jacket and they passed it out the window to the man and went on their way .... then decided they would loop back around and take hims something to eat. When they approached the corner with a bag of hot food and coffee, there was the man ... shivering in just his jeans and t-shirt like they had seen him before... this time they noticed a large nice looking backpack protruding from a bush nearby. Apparently, wearing a coat doesn't bring in the bucks as well.

Here, the powers that be advise people not to give money to people just begging (they're not talking about street musicians and the like) because odds are it is going to be used for alcohol or drugs. They recommend donating money, goods and volunteer service to shelters and organizations. And that is what my family does. Or if a person is near a restaurant, offer to pay for their meal. We've done that too. Apparently there are now "professional homeless" who make a pretty dang good living standing with signs with the whole family. A friend of mine knows someone who gave such a corner family $20, then when he came out of whatever store later he was going to, he saw the same group getting into a brand new SUV in the parking lot behind the store!

All homeless people are not alike, they cannot all be condemned for the actions of a few. Likewise, I don't think Dean nor anyone else can be condemned as a person for expressing their frustration/anger over something they personally experienced. Homelessness is a sad sad ... and growing ... problem, I think we can all agree on that ... and it is something we can all donate time, money or goods to help fund resources for the organizations who work so hard to help those truly in need.

On the lighter side... I love Grandpa Elliott in the video! What a cutie! Since he was in New Orleans and is an older dude, perhaps Judyth can tell us all about him .... surely she must have known him too.

Bests,

Barb :-)

[Dixie Dea]

Thanks Steven...that was wonderfull. This also reminds me of the below song written by Homer Joy and sung by both Buck Owens and Dwight Yokum. It is especialy interesting, since I happen to live in Bakersfield, where Buck lived until he died a couple of years ago. He was not the "Hee Haw" type person as he pretended to be...he was a very successful Businessman, with a Publishing Company, a Heart Patient Hospital as well as a nice Night Club. At one time, he held a yearly Rodeo Event and raised tons of money, which was all donated to local non profit agencies.But then, everyone had their hand out and it just all became to taxing on him, with his medical conditions.In addition...a few years ago, I spent a month in Singapore and we went to a Country Western Night Club one night.....among many other things. The band group wes from Malasia and they sang this song..which really did please us and made us feel right at home, about Bakersfield.

On The Streets of Bakersfield

by Homer Joy

I came here looking for something

I couldn't find anywhere else

Hey, I'm not trying to be nobody

I just want a chance to be myself

I've spent a thousand miles of thumbin'

Yes I've worn blisters on my heels

Trying to find me something better

Here on the streets of Bakersfield

Hey you don't know me but you don't like me

You say you care less how I feel

But how many of you that sit and judge me

Have ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?

I spent sometime in San Francisco

I spent a night there in the can

They threw this drunk man in my jail cell

I took fifteen dollars from that man

Left him my watch and my old house key

Don't want folks thinkin' that I'd steal

Then I thanked him as I was leaving

And I headed out for Bakersfield

Hey you don't know me but you don't like me

You say you care less how I feel

But how many of you that sit and judge me

Have ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?

Hey you don't know me but you don't like me

You say you care less how I feel

But how many of you that sit and judge me

Have ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?

How many of you that sit and judge me

Have ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?

Dixie

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Having spent a fair bit of my life being a bum, I can understand the attitudes. There tended to be good bums and not so good ones and they tend to live different lives. I've lived in both camps and have seen and experienced both as an outsider as well. There's definitely a grouping that have a maybe for ever condition from which they are unlikely to ever emerge from. There are others comfortable in the struggle but not in the solution and then those who always at some point turn their faces to the sun. I suppose in a way they then earn a status of a proper money handler, otherwise you can feed and the hunger will always come back. Some people choose the status and do the best they can with microwave lids.

Irrespective, there is a certain comraderie within and across groupings. If you've never had nothing except what you can carry, with no surety of where you'll sleep that night or whether you'll have more than a couple of biscuits, a bit of bread and a cup of cheap coffeee. The body can only take so much malnutrition. Those serious about getting out of whatever hole, it is by giving, not taking, that things start looking up. Others keep running for the dark. Sometimes, for a time, one has to.

Thank you for sharing this. :-)

"Those serious about getting out of whatever hole, it is by giving, not taking, that things start looking up." Profound and insightful words for all of us ... no matter our "station" in this world.

Bests,

Barb :-)

[Kathleen Collins]

Awesome pictures Stephen!

Thanks for posting them, they are now saved to my computer

I take it they were photographed when they found Ferrie dead?

Kathy C

Kathy...ask JVB whether that little kitchen was where the monkey cages were.

Jack

Yuck!

Kathy C

[Kevin Greenlee]

Both parts of Mr. Fetzer's recent radio interview are available as downloadable podcasts. you can find them at

http://feeds.feedburner.com/TheRealDealWithJimFetzerPodcast

though the second part was apparently truncated when it was originally made available over the internet, the podcast version is complete. the first hour or so of that program, in my opinion, wasn't terribly interesting (judyth talks about such things as what sorts of foods we should eat if we wish to avoid cancer) but things picked up a bit in the second hour when she began to address some of the posts in this very thread. people like barb j., david lifton and jack white are criticized and we finally get an explanation for why she doesn't have a court certified professional examine the book which she claims contains oswald's writing (it seems to have something to do with her fear that conniving handwriting analysts are somehow out to take financial advantage of her. but i may have missed some nuances so please listen yourself).

[Kathleen Collins]

Dean, please - you certainly must realize that not all of the homeless are drunken bums. There are a lot of homeless people out there who are decent, upstanding people who have fallen on hard times.

Todd

You know I realize this, im not that dense

I just want to let Jim know how it feels to act like a complete jerk towards someone because they dont agree with them, even if that person has backed them up and thought of him as his voice in the assassination community

That makes no sense. How exactly do you think your anti-homeless ranting could possibly make Fetzer (or anyone else for that matter) feel how it is to be a complete jerk?

I think what happened here is Dean stepped in it when he said something (however true) not politically correct. So now he'll have to pay for it forever.

Kathy C

[Greg Burnham]

I think what happened here is Dean stepped in it when he said something (however true) not politically correct. So now he'll have to pay for it forever.

Kathy C

I tried to stay out of this, but I can't! Kathy, are you serious? What Dean said was demonstrably UNTRUE. He is entitled to his opinion and to any biases or prejudices that suit him. However, his right to an opinion, based on his own personal biases/prejudices, does not render fallacious conclusions "truthful" in any event. Could his judgment of Jim's friends be true? No--at least not as stated. As stated his assertions are totally unsupported. By his own admission, the experience he had in one special circumstance is now tainting his judgment of this totally new and separate circumstance. He is judging the two as if they are one in the same, but they are not.

Adding insult to injury, it is less than credible for him to attempt to portray his position as a strategic move to demonstrate to Jim "how it feels" -- sorry, but "that dog don't hunt" --

To quote Dean from an earlier post: WEAK.

[Kathleen Collins]

I think what happened here is Dean stepped in it when he said something (however true) not politically correct. So now he'll have to pay for it forever.

Kathy C

I tried to stay out of this, but I can't! Kathy, are you serious? What Dean said was demonstrably UNTRUE. He is entitled to his opinion and to any biases or prejudices that suit him. However, his right to an opinion, based on his own personal biases/prejudices, does not render fallacious conclusions "truthful" in any event. Could his judgment of Jim's friends be true? No--at least not as stated. As stated his assertions are totally unsupported. By his own admission, the experience he had in one special circumstance is now tainting his judgment of this totally new and separate circumstance. He is judging the two as if they are one in the same, but they are not.

Adding insult to injury, it is less than credible for him to attempt to portray his position as a strategic move to demonstrate to Jim "how it feels" -- sorry, but "that dog don't hunt" --

To quote Dean from an earlier post: WEAK.

Greg, I stand by my opinion and Dean's opinion. The sentences in bold above -- I agree with you. But having lived in Jersey City for so long, I had several bad experiences with homeless people. I think, for the lack of a better word, "liberals" go overboard about these things in the abstract. They have a humane cause. But deal with them one on one and they're terrible. I'm talking about people like John and Yoko, Marlo Thomas, Susan Sarandon, Alec Baldwin, Bobby Darin.

Bobby Darin said to someone one time: "You see all those guys in that room? (He had male sycophants like Elvis) Every one would take a bullet for me. But me? I wouldn't take a bullet for any of them." Then he discovered Bobby Kennedy and had a cause.

This thread is about Judyth. It's been hijacked about homeless people. Was Oswald ever homeless? If not we should go back to the discussion of Judyth's veracity.

Kathy C

Edited May 5, 2010 by Kathleen Collins

[Dean Hagerman]

I think what happened here is Dean stepped in it when he said something (however true) not politically correct. So now he'll have to pay for it forever.

Kathy C

I tried to stay out of this, but I can't! Kathy, are you serious? What Dean said was demonstrably UNTRUE. He is entitled to his opinion and to any biases or prejudices that suit him. However, his right to an opinion, based on his own personal biases/prejudices, does not render fallacious conclusions "truthful" in any event. Could his judgment of Jim's friends be true? No--at least not as stated. As stated his assertions are totally unsupported. By his own admission, the experience he had in one special circumstance is now tainting his judgment of this totally new and separate circumstance. He is judging the two as if they are one in the same, but they are not.

Adding insult to injury, it is less than credible for him to attempt to portray his position as a strategic move to demonstrate to Jim "how it feels" -- sorry, but "that dog don't hunt" --

To quote Dean from an earlier post: WEAK.

Wow

Greg you said "one special circumstance"

3 years Greg!

Let me say it again because im sure you missed it by the sound of your Weak attempt to make me feel bad

3 years Greg!

Every day

All day long

You know how many customers I lost because of Bums?

How would you feel if a worthless Bum called your wife a whore in front of you Greg? (Dont worry Greg I caught that very Bum all alone in my parking lot stumbling drunk one late night with nobody around but him and I)

How would you like cleaning their horrid stinking clothes out of the bathroom everyday?

How would you like cleaning up their piss and vomit?

How would you like trying to help them and they refuse work and laugh at your offer?

Dont tell me what I say is UNTRUE

What I say is truth, what I say happened to me every day for 3 straight years Greg not "one special circumstance"

I really thought you were a cool guy Greg but now I see because you view homeless people differently then I do that Im wrong

Of course Fetzer insults me over and over and you say nothing about it

Edited May 5, 2010 by Dean Hagerman

[Greg Burnham]

This thread is about Judyth. It's been hijacked about homeless people. Was Oswald ever homeless? If not we should go back to the discussion of Judyth's veracity.

Kathy C

Well, I sorta agree with you about the above. However, Jim offered witnesses whose statements speak to Judyth's credibility. That IS on topic. The witness' testimonies were summarily rejected as worthless due to a prejudice against them that is logically ill founded and therefore irrelevant, not only to the topic, but in general. That's why we are discussing it. If it is indeed inappropriate to dismiss these witnesses on the grounds stated, then what they have to offer to promote the discovery of the truth should be considered...without prejudice.

[Greg Burnham]

Dean,

If you will re-read my post you'll note that I acknowledged your right to your own opinion. But, we're not talking about your SPECIAL 3 YEAR LONG circumstances! We are talking about individual human beings (Jim's friends) whom you know nothing about aside from what Jim has told you. Therefore, what you claimed to be necessarily true about Jim's friends is demonstrably a false statement. Your judgment of them is not necessarily accurate. This is logically inescapable, and--as such--it is therefore a false statement.

I will not call you names nor will I defend myself from you calling me names. We are adults.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Greg Burnham

[Cliff Varnell]

But having lived in Jersey City for so long, I had several bad experiences with homeless people. I think, for the lack of a better word, "liberals" go overboard about these things in the abstract.

Kathy C

Nothing abstract about my experiences with the homeless.

For every tale you and Dean tell about run-ins with the homeless -- I can tell ten.

I live in a neighborhood flooded with these folks. Part of the local color. It's not

about being "liberal," it's about having tough enough skin to step over and around

human puke and dog xxxx on the sidewalks without getting overly squicked. One

must realize that a certain percentage of people who are in disagreeable situations

are going to be, well, disagreeable.

I wouldn't live anywhere else. I love the Haight-Ashbury, homeless and all.

And may the Goddess forbid anyone from hijacking such an important thread...

[Dean Hagerman]

I will not call you names nor will I defend myself from you calling me names. We are adults.

Did I miss something Greg?

I have not nor would I ever call you a name

[Greg Burnham]

I will not call you names nor will I defend myself from you calling me names. We are adults.

Did I miss something Greg?

I have not nor would I ever call you a name

Well then, you still might consider me "cool" as opposed to "uncool"-- I guess?

Let me elaborate on what I said in order to make my position clearer. Dean, I don't claim to know what your 3 year long experience with homeless people was like. But, I have no reason to doubt that you are telling the truth about your personal perception of them. If you thought I was saying that your reportage of your Seattle Homeless experience was untrue--I apologize. That is NOT what I was saying.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Greg Burnham

[Dean Hagerman]

Greg

Maybe this will help you

I lost income because of Bums

Do you know how many customers walked away and did not order when a bum came in asking for money

Do you know how many customers walked out because I had to either drag one outside myslef or scream in their face to get lost

You know what the Seattle Police told me Greg? "You dont have to call us, just remove them from your property, if they take a swing at you then call us"

They didnt care, they didnt want me to call, in fact an officer told me to drag them outside real rough and they wont come back

I am not making that up

I lost money every day

I lost money every day

I LOST MONEY EVERY DAY

Now do you see why I have a strong opinion Greg

If you say yes I see why you have a strong opinion I promise I will never bring up the subject of Bums again

You have my word

Edited May 5, 2010 by Dean Hagerman