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In order for Chaney to have talked to Curry before the limo overtook it

then it must have happened BEFORE the lead car came out of the overpass shadow.

I only see one motorcycle officer in the Bell sequence during that period and that is officer Martin.

Chaney is no where to be seen.?

BellAnimation2.gif

Edited by Robin Unger
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Altgens 7 showing the lead car just about to enter the overpass shadow area.

If Chaney is gunning his motorcycle at this point, and chasing after the lead car

Then why don't we see him in Altgen's 7

Credit: John Woods

moore_altgensframesheet.jpg

Edited by Robin Unger
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Mr Fetzer have you seen the camera original of the Zapruder film?.

If not which version are you referring to?.

And can you say it's an exact copy of the original?.

How much "action" was missed between Houston and the Stemmons on ramp which is not on film?.

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over the last couple of years i have come to the conclusion that Fetzer is nothing but a BLOWHARD

who thinks that if he gets red in the face and barks loud enough, that he will force his opinions on other researchers.

NEWSFLASH

You Won't

The fact that he throws his support behind the Cinque entity, tells me that he is not an honest broker, and has a set adgenda.

Supporting KOOKS and KOOK theories, will not get you any respect or support from the majority of JFK Assassination Researchers.

Until now i have held back from criticizing you directly !

but i will remain silent no longer.

It is unfortunate when anyone is unable to put forth their position and argue it with respect in an open forum. That leads to a meaningful discussion. Bullying, use of fallacy, ad homs shut down a possible discussion.

Nobody has the right to claim without a doubt that their position is correct. They can attempt to persuade others that it is.

If two sides are unable to come to an agreement, they can agree-to-disagree and move forward.

All of this can be done with respect. Why not?

The problem is that Robin was quite correct and Fetzer's constant fetzering understandably leads to frustration and irritation, note his constant spamming of the same text and links over and over in the same thread as well as simultaneously in different threads. This very thread is a perfect example, why start a new thread with a 5 year old press release when there already were several threads on the exact same topic. I'm not sure if you meant your critique to be one sided; if so please point to where 'the great and almighty Fetzer' has ever been open to the suggestion he might be wrong.

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Who’s telling the truth: Clint Hill or the Zapruder film?

Agent’s reports contradict JFK film, autopsy X-rays and other crucial photographs

Jim Fetzer

k3kj9t.jpg

“In the midst of the mayhem the agents were calm, but ready to react in a

millisecond if anything got out of hand.”—Jerry Blaine, THE KENNEDY DETAIL

According to Jerry Blaine, the author of THE KENNEDY DETAIL (2010), his purpose in writing this book was “to set history straight, to leave a book for [his] grandchildren that they could read and know the truth beyond any measure of doubt.” What Blaine has actually done, however, moves us further toward the truth by revealing that the words of Clint Hill, the only agent to respond during the assassination, contradict his actions as shown in the Zapruder film, in which his efforts to protect Jackie Kennedy are among its most indelible features. They also impeach autopsy X-rays and other photographs. We therefore have in Clint Hill’s own words stunning new proof that the extant film has been faked. The book—and presentations to promote it—thus contributes to “setting history straight”, but not in the sense its author intended.

Clint Hill was not the only agent to attempt to respond after shots rang out. Secret Service agent John Ready, who was on the right running board whereas Clint was on the left, began to respond but was called back by Emory Roberts, Agent in Charge of the Presidential Protection Detail. This is stunning in itself, but is only one of more than fifteen indications that the Secret Service set up JFK for the hit, which include that two agents were left behind at Love Field, that the vehicles were in the wrong order, that the 112th Military Intelligence Unit was ordered to “stand down” rather than provide protection throughout the city, and that the motorcycle escort was reduced to four, who were instructed not to ride forward the rear wheels. Open windows were not covered and the crowd was allowed to spill out into the street.

When I discovered that Jerry and Clint had made presentations at book signings, I sent out a notice to several of my closest collaborators, all of whom contributed to the three JFK books I edited, ASSASSINATION SCIENCE (1998), MURDER IN DEALEY PLAZA (2000), and THE GREAT ZAPRUDER FILM HOAX (2003). I had reported there that we had found multiple indications the film had been reconstructed, where rather important events, such as the driver, William Greer, bringing the limo to a halt, had been removed and the film redone. An expert on special effects, Roderick Ryan, had told Noel Twyman, BLOODY TREASON (1997), that the “blob” of brains exploding to the right/front had been painted in, while, as Doug Horne, INSIDE THE ARRB (2009), has explained, a new group of Hollywood experts has found that a massive defect to the back of JFK’s head had been concealed by being (crudely) painted over in black.

The Costella Response

John Costella, Ph.D., the leading expert on the film in the world today, who earned his doctorate in physics with a specialization in electromagnetism, the properties of light and images of moving objects, responded almost immediately. “Forget about the book”, he wrote. “That YouTube video [of Blaine and Hill at a book signing, which can be found here:

] is worth its weight in gold!” A few years ago, after he did a compilation of eyewitness reports from Dealey Plaza [ http://assassinationresearch.com/v5n1/v5n1costella.pdf ] and created a stabilized version of the Zapruder film, in which the limousine does not move vertically within frames (below), John recognized that what Clint has described from the days after the assassination, to his testimony to the Warren Commission and right up to his last public interviews in the 1970s or 1980s, was consistent but contradicts the film. At the book signing,

24:30: "As I approached the vehicle there was a third shot. It hit the President in the head, upper right rear of the right ear, caused a gaping hole in his head, which caused brain matter, blood, and bone fragments to spew forth out over the car, over myself. At that point Mrs. Kennedy came up out of the back seat onto the trunk of the car. She was trying to retrieve something that had gone off to the right rear. She did not know I was there. At that point I grabbed Mrs. Kennedy, put her in the back seat. The President fell over into her lap, to his left.

His right side of his head was exposed. I could see his eyes were fixed. There was a hole in the upper right rear portion of his head about the size of my palm. Most of the gray matter in that area had been removed, and was scattered throughout the entire car, including on Mrs. Kennedy. I turned and gave the follow-up car crew the thumbs-down, indicating that we were in a very dire situation. The driver accelerated; he got up to the lead car which was driven by Chief Curry, the Dallas Chief of Police . . .”.

This is completely consistent with every account Clint has ever given. He insists that he reached Mrs. Kennedy, pushed her down into the back seat, and was lying over the President, close enough to view the exact wounds, before the driver accelerated away—and certainly before they got to the lead car. The problem is that the extant Zapruder film—together with the less familiar Nix and Muchmore films—has Clint never actually touching Mrs. Kennedy; indeed, the extant Zapruder shows that he never got further than the rear foothold until the time that the limo passed the lead car and went under the Triple Underpass. Instead, it shows him stuck there on the rear foothold (below).)

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According to Clint Hill (shown here on the rear foothold of the limousine as the vehicle is about to enter the Triple Underpass), he had already reached Mrs. Kennedy and pushed her down in the back seat. JFK had fallen to the left into her lap, where the right side of his head was exposed to Clint, who was lying over them. This photo is supposed to have been taken by Ike Altgens and corresponds with late Zapruder frames. Clint’s testimony not only falsifies the Zapruder film, but also shows that this photograph was faked to agree with it.

Lest there be any doubt on this crucial point, in Clint Hill’s written statement dated 30 November 1963, which was published as Commission Exhibit CE 1024, he wrote: “As I lay over the top of the back seat I noticed a portion of the President’s head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely. Part of his brain was gone. I saw a part of his skull with hair on it lying on the seat” [18H742]. And in his testimony to the commission on 9 March 1964, “The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the middle of the car. His brain was exposed.” [2H141]. Since he has told us he made these observations before the limousine had reached the pilot car drive by Chief Curry (shown above), this photo has to have been faked. Clint could not have made these observations from the rear foothold as it represents. (His descriptions of the wound to the right rear of JFK’s head are discussed below.)

The Limo Stop

Not the least fascinating aspect of Clint Hill’s latest remarks is his observation that he was covered with brains and gore as he ran forward from the left running board of the Secret Service Cadillac—called “The Queen Mary”—which, according to Emory Roberts (THE KENNEDY DETAIL, page 215), was 15 feet back. This is consistent with the report of Officer Bobby Hargis riding to the left/rear of the limousine, who was hit so hard by the brains and debris that he thought he himself might have been shot. Agents who saw JFK’s brains splattered across the trunk in Washington, D.C. would be nauseated by the sight, as I explained in HOAX, page 27. But it is not in the film. So John wrote to Clint—and he got it, because John has the signed Registered Mail receipt card—urging him to be certain to record his version of events for posterity. Now he is on the road, participating in book signings and talking publicly again, for the first time in decades. His story is still exactly the same and, most important, still does not agree with his actions as seen in the film.. Here is a clip featuring what is shown of his actions in the film:

The film itself thus demonstrates that the Zapruder version of Clint Hill’s actions up to the Triple Underpass is not consistent with Clint Hill’s words describing what he actually did.

John’s collation of eyewitness reports about the assassination includes dozens and dozens about the limo stop. Some reported seeing it slow dramatically and others that it came to a complete stop, which makes sense since, from different positions, different witnesses would have seen it slow dramatically as it came to a complete stop. Among them is Toni Foster, who was interviewed by Debra Conway in 2000. As Daniel Gallup has observed, Foster seems to have no idea that her recollections contradict the official record. Toni told Debra, "For some reason, the car stopped. It did stop for seconds. I don't even know why it stopped and all of a sudden it sped up and they went under the underpass. I could never figure out why the car stopped." “The way she delivers these lines,” Gallup observed, “I doubt Toni had ever seen the extant Z-film, and had no idea her recollections contradicted that film.” He said he was reminded of David Lifton's early (1971) interviews with the Newmans who also said the limo had stopped. “They had no way of knowing at the time that the Z-film showed no such stop. All of this is to say, the earliest recollections of individuals are likely to be the most significant,” he added, “especially if there is evidence of a lack of exposure to contrary viewpoints that might influence memory”. For a few more:

Billy Lovelady (on the steps of the Texas School Book Depository), 19 March 1964: “I recall that following the shooting I ran toward the spot where President Kennedy’s car had stopped.” [FBI statement: 22H662]

Roy Truly (on the north side of Elm Street in front of the building), 24 March 1964: “The car—I saw the President’s car swerve to the left and stop somewhere down in this area” [Later:] (Mr. Belin: “When you saw the President’s car seem to stop, how long did it appear to stop?) Mr. Truly: It would be hard to say, over a second or two, something like that. I didn’t see—I just saw it stop. I don’t know. I didn’t see it start up.” [Warren Commission testimony: 3H221]

Mrs. Earle Cabell (four cars behind the Presidential limousine, at the top of Elm Street at the time of the shots), 13 July 1964: “I was aware that the motorcade stopped dead still. There was no question about that.” [Later:] “As I told you, the motorcade was stopped.” [Later:] (Mr. Hubert: “That was when your car at least had come to a standstill?”) Mrs. Cabell: “Every car in the motorcade had come to a standstill.” [Later:] “… we were dead still for a matter of some seconds—“ [Warren Commission Testimony” 7H486-7]

These reports are significant from multiple points of view. Roy Truly was Oswald’s supervisor in the Book Depository and would reassure Officer Marrion Baker, when he confronted Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room 90 seconds after the assassination, that he was an employee and belonged there. Billy Lovelady was another employee who looked enough like Oswald to be mistaken for him. And Earle Cabell, the Mayor of Dallas at the time, was the brother of Lt. Gen. Charles Cabell, USAF (ret.), whom JFK removed as a deputy director of the CIA after the disastrous Bay of Pigs fiasco.

The limo stop—during which JFK was hit twice in the head, once from behind and once from in front—was such an obvious indication of Secret Service complicity that it had to be taken out, which is undoubtedly the principal reason for fixing the film. But it had other ramifications. What Clint Hill has consistently described is not in the Zapruder film: he describes several actions in those seconds around the limo stop that were deleted from the extant film. In editing the timeline of the extant film, it was necessary to delete his pushing of Mrs. Kennedy back into the seat—there just wasn't enough time left in the film once the limo stop had been deleted. There is no possible way in which Clint could possibly have seen what he claims to have seen before the car accelerated away and passed the lead car when he was stuck on the back of the speeding limo as he is shown doing in the extant film. And from his initial reports right up to his latest “book signing” interview, he has insisted that that was when he saw those things, that he did reach Mrs. Kennedy and that he did push her down into the car, unlike what the film shows. Which means that the film is a fake.

PART II (below)

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Guest James H. Fetzer

There is more, but the key part is Clint Hill's consistent descriptions of

his actions that day, which include rushing forward, pushing Jackie back

into the rear seat, lying across their bodies, peering into the fist-sized hole

at the back of JFK's head, and giving a "thumb's down" to his colleagues

--all before the limo has reached the Triple Underpass. And Roy Kellerman

confirmed Clint's report when he testified to the Warren Commission that

he had looked back and seen Clint lying across the trunk--actually the back

seat, but from his perspective it looked like the trunk. And we know not only

has Altgens6 been manipulated but that Altgens7 is a fake, contradicted by

Clint's testimony and by the absence of Officer Chaney beside the lead car,

which was confirmed by Chief Jesse Curry, Winston Lawson, Forrest Sorrels,

Bobby Hargis and James Chaney. So we know that Altgens7 was fabricated.

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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Quote:

And we know not only has Altgens6 been manipulated but that Altgens7 is a fake

Altgen's 6 and 7

appeared on the front page of this newspaper on 22/11/63

Exactly how was it possible to manipulate not just one, but TWO of the Altgen's photo's, before they hit the press THE SAME DAY ????

Click on image to view FULL SIZE

pres25.jpg

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been there, done that, got the tee shirt...

No one with a even bit of sense thinks you have anything of substance to offer.

Ya can't even tell us what generation Z-film you've studied, and provide proof as to that lineage. Till then hon, you're whistling in the dark, even the Tinkster can't help. What you got dude, is O-P-I-N-I-O-N! That is IT...

You'll be mowing that Z-film lawn for the next 20 years (if your lucky). Carry on!

Edited by David G. Healy
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been there, done that, got the tee shirt...

No one with a even bit of sense thinks you have anything of substance to offer.

Ya can't even tell us what generation Z-film you've studied, and provide proof as to that lineage. Till then hon, you're whistling in the dark, even the Tinkster can't help. What you got dude, is O-P-I-N-I-O-N! That is IT...

You'll be mowing that Z-film lawn for the next 20 years (if your lucky). Carry on!

Oh I can tell you what generation I have, and quite frankly I suspect its far closer to the original than you have ever seen. I just choose not to tell you , at least at this time.

Now davie, why don't you slink away because, as is usual for you, there is nothing of value to your post once again. You got no game.

As for opinions at least I have one and am willing to post it. You are deathly afraid of getting yours in the mix. Not surprising.

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Guest James H. Fetzer

No. This is fascinating. That Robin Unger has these issues of these

obscure newspapers at hand is remarkable and revealing. We have

found that the CIA went back and created phony issues for that day

to be used in precisely this situation. I am dumbfounded that ROBIN

UNGER should have them at his fingertips. Consider the following:

From "An Open Letter to Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.", http://www.veteranst...t-f-kennedy-jr/

The strongest argument that has been advanced against the Altgens6 having been altered has been that it went out over the wire within 30 minutes or so, which would not have allowed enough time for that to have happened. Anyone who studies the doorway images, however, can see that, not only has that face been obfuscated, but the man in the doorway is missing his left shoulder and the man behind him, who is wearing a black tie, is simultaneous both IN FRONT OF and BEHIND HIM at the same time, as we have emphasized in most of our studies. When the evidence of alteration is as blatant as this–where these features are not even anatomically or photographically possible–how could anyone have doubts about whether or not the photo had been altered? Since the photo was altered, there had to have been time to have altered it.

Indeed, one of our senior members, Roy Schaeffer, was working as a photo processor at the Dayton Daily News when he personally received the Altgens6 photo-fax. Immediately, he could see signs of alteration, such as “masking” and “opaquing.” In an earlier study, I observed that the 22 November 1963 issue of The Sheboygan Times includes a photo of the Altgens, which struck me as having to be the outcome of a CIA substitution, which I mentioned at the time. Now Ralph has confirmed that that was indeed the case, where the real issue and the substitute issue have both been revealed. Here is the late edition of the Benton Harbor, MI, News-Palladium for 22 November 1963: the one on the left is real, the one on the right is not–but was fabricated to make it look as if Altgens6 was published that day:

[NOTE: I AM NOT BEING ALLOWED TO UPLOAD THE IMAGE. I AM BEING BLOCKED AGAIN AND AGAIN.]

file:///Users/jamesfetzer/Desktop/Collage-413-640x426.jpg

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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