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Jim Hargrove

TWO MARGUERITE OSWALDS -- NEW DETAILS

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:
44 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Tracy,

Do you think that CIA employees are going to admit they said anything about a top secret program?

Well Wilcott did, but I can see why you would say that.


My understanding is that Wilcott didn't say anything while at the CIA, but only heard what some of his coworkers were saying.

Of course, his talking to Garrison would still have been illegal. But, being the radical activist he was, perhaps he felt he was doing the right thing. And, as a matter of fact, he was.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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Posted (edited)

Tracy Parnell wrote:

I mentioned in a previous post how I came to make that change. I reviewed Wilcott's testimony with the HSCA bullet points and found that one assertion was not fully supported so I removed it. As far as Wilcott protecting anyone, he named several persons that he may have spoken to about LHO. The HSCA interviewed 18 employees from Tokyo and not one would confirm any of his allegations.

In other words, after I merely threatened to expose your mis-characterization, you changed it, knowing it was false.

Edited by Jim Hargrove

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Tracy Parnell wrote:

I mentioned in a previous post how I came to make that change. I reviewed Wilcott's testimony with the HSCA bullet points and found that one assertion was not fully supported so I removed it. As far as Wilcott protecting anyone, he named several persons that he may have spoken to about LHO. The HSCA interviewed 18 employees from Tokyo and not one would confirm any of his allegations.

In other words, after I merely threatened to expose your mis-characterization, you changed it, knowing it was false.

No, I discovered it before your post. However, if you found an error on my site and I agreed with you that it was an error, I would change it. My primary concern is the facts. In this case, I would say that rather than an error, it was an overreach on their part.

Edited by W. Tracy Parnell

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:


My understanding is that Wilcott didn't say anything while at the CIA, but only heard what some of his coworkers were saying.

Of course, his talking to Garrison would still have been illegal. But, being the radical activist he was, perhaps he felt he was doing the right thing. And, as a matter of fact, he was.

 

The whole Wilcott matter can be summed up this way. You can believe that Wilcott was correct in his assertions and LHO was part of a CIA program. In that case, at least 18 CIA employees from Tokyo chose to lie to the HSCA. It would probably be more than that though. These people remained silent throughout the years as did any family members they would have undoubtedly told. No deathbed confessions, no seeking out of investigative journalists.

Or you can believe that Wilcott, was disgruntled because of an investigation of him by the CIA that he felt was unfair. You can believe that Wilcott came to think that certain actions taken by the CIA were incorrect (as he stated in his testimony). You can believe that Wilcott became enamored of  radical (for the time) left-wing views. And you can assume that as a person with all of these beliefs and ideas that he probably availed himself of the literature regarding the JFK assassination which was (and is) predominantly pro-conspiracy. This literature reinforced his beliefs regarding what happened at Tokyo. With all of this in mind, you then can understand how he could have misconstrued gossip that he heard while working at the CIA and misremembered (as we know happened in the case of one employee who was not in Japan when he said he was) some facts to arrive at his false conclusion.

Edited by W. Tracy Parnell

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1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

You can believe that Wilcott was correct in his assertions and LHO was part of a CIA program. In that case, at least 18 CIA employees from Tokyo chose to lie to the HSCA.

Or the HSCA chose to lie to us.

 

20 Facts Indicating the Oswald Project was Run by the CIA

1. CIA accountant James Wilcott said he made payments to an encrypted account for “Oswald or the Oswald Project.”

2. Antonio Veciana said he saw LHO meeting with CIA’s Maurice Bishop/David Atlee Phillips in Dallas in August 1963.

3. A 1978 CIA memo indicates that a CIA operations officer “had run an agent into the USSR, that man having met a Russian girl and eventually marrying her,” a case very similar to Oswald’s and clearly indicating that the Agency ran a “false defector” program in the 1950s.

4. Robert Webster and LHO "defected" a few months apart in 1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both returned to the United States in the spring of 1962.

5. Richard Sprague, Richard Schweiker, and CIA agents Donald Norton and Joseph Newbrough all said LHO was associated with the CIA. 

6. CIA employee Donald Deneslya said he read reports of a CIA agent who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child.

7. Kenneth Porter, employee of CIA-connected Collins Radio, left his family to marry (and no doubt monitor) Marina Oswald after LHO’s death.

8. George Joannides, case officer and paymaster for DRE (which LHO had attempted to infiltrate) was put in charge of lying to the HSCA and never told them of his relationship to DRE.

9. For his achievements, Joannides was given a medal by the CIA.

10. FBI took Oswald off the watch list at the same time a CIA cable gave him a clean bill of political health, weeks after Oswald’s New Orleans arrest and less than two months before the assassination.

11. Oswald’s lengthy “Lives of Russian Workers” essay reads like a pretty good intelligence report.

12. Oswald’s possessions were searched for microdots.

13. Oswald owned an expensive Minox spy camera, which the FBI tried to make disappear.

14. Even the official cover story of the radar operator near American U-2 planes defecting to Russia, saying he would give away all his secrets, and returning home without penalty smells like a spy story.

15. CIA Richard Case Nagell clearly knew about the plot to assassinate JFK and LHO’s relation to it, but the CIA ignored his warnings.

16. LHO always seemed poor as a church mouse, until it was time to go “on assignment.”  For his Russian adventure, we’re to believe he saved all the money he needed for first class European hotels and private tour guides in Moscow from the non-convertible USMC script he saved. In the summer of 1963, he once again seemed to have enough money to travel abroad to Communist nations.

17. To this day, the CIA claims it never interacted with Oswald, that it didn’t even bother debriefing him after the “defection.” What utter bs….

18. After he “defected” to the Soviet Union in 1959, bragging to U.S. embassy personnel in Moscow that he would tell the Russians everything he knew about U.S. military secrets, he returns to the U.S. without punishment and is then in 1963 given the OK to travel to Cuba and the Soviet Union again!

19. Allen Dulles, the CIA director fired by JFK, and the Warren Commission clearly wanted the truth hidden from the public to protect sources and methods of intelligence agencies such as the CIA. Earl Warren said, “Full disclosure was not possible for reasons of national security.”

20. President Kennedy and the CIA clearly were at war with each other in the weeks immediately before his assassination, as evidenced by Arthur Krock's infamous defense of the Agency in the Oct. 3, 1963 New York Times. “Oswald” was the CIA’s pawn.
 

Krock_CIA.jpeg?dl=0

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1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

No, I discovered it before your post. 

Maybe, but you didn't correct it until after my post.  Yesterday at 5:40 am (EF time) I wrote: "Tracy Parnell has a blog page mis-characterizing James Wilcott’s testimony, which I’ll be correcting as soon as I have time."  I had just read your bs about "shop talk" which completely mis-characterized Wilcott's testimony.  Not many hours later, I started to do the write-up, and when I checked your blog, the "shop talk" business was gone.

We're going to play this game again, my friend!

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Maybe, but you didn't correct it until after my post.  Yesterday at 5:40 am (EF time) I wrote: "Tracy Parnell has a blog page mis-characterizing James Wilcott’s testimony, which I’ll be correcting as soon as I have time."  I had just read your bs about "shop talk" which completely mis-characterized Wilcott's testimony.  Not many hours later, I started to do the write-up, and when I checked your blog, the "shop talk" business was gone.

We're going to play this game again, my friend!

 

 

 

 

No, we are not going to play any game. The purpose of the update was to address the comment by Rob Stewart that suggested I could ad more material. While in he process of looking at the source material, I noticed that previously mentioned HSCA claim wasn't fully supported and I updated the article making that change and adding the new information.  If you look at the article, it says "updated March 21." For confirmation, look at the comments where I replied to Stewart-it is time stamped March 21.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Or the HSCA chose to lie to us.

 

20 Facts Indicating the Oswald Project was Run by the CIA

1. CIA accountant James Wilcott said he made payments to an encrypted account for “Oswald or the Oswald Project.”

2. Antonio Veciana said he saw LHO meeting with CIA’s Maurice Bishop/David Atlee Phillips in Dallas in August 1963. [etc., etc....]

 

 

...And if any rogue factions or outside organizations co-opted the Oswald Project for purposes of assassinating the president, why were these people not punished or destroyed, even if only covertly?  Even for merely the provocation of subverting the powers of CIA and FBI to kill a hated, but sitting, president?  Instead, people associated with the plotting or cover-up prospered, and only a few got it in the neck when committees were formed and their silence was uncertain. 

And nobody hit Walker, Gabaldon, Rousselot.  I'm beginning to think that Jack Ruby's nattering to Earl Warren about the JBS was just a dodge to show Warren that he'd never spill the intel community-mafia beans, and that he ought to be rewarded by being put in federal custody.  Ruby's chasing of Bernard Weissman-sponsored billboards was probably another gambit to deflect blame onto the right wingers and away from intel and the mob.

Edited by David Andrews

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16 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

The whole Wilcott matter can be summed up this way. You can believe that Wilcott was correct in his assertions and LHO was part of a CIA program. In that case, at least 18 CIA employees from Tokyo chose to lie to the HSCA.

I will rewrite the above in a more reasonable way.

The whole Wilcott matter can be summed up this way. You can believe that Wilcott was correct in his assertions and LHO was part of a CIA program. In that case, at least 18 CIA employees from Tokyo chose to comply with non-disclosure agreements they had signed. Because they might be subject to imprisonment if they did otherwise.

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17 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

My primary concern is the facts.


Then why do you choose to attempt character assassination on Wilcott with largely irrelevant allegations?

It's almost as though you had read that CIA document which lays out several methods of combating allegations the CIA is afraid of.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, David Andrews said:

... I'm beginning to think that Jack Ruby's nattering to Earl Warren about the JBS was just a dodge to show Warren that he'd never spill the intel community-mafia beans, and that he ought to be rewarded by being put in federal custody.  Ruby's chasing of Bernard Weissman-sponsored billboards was probably another gambit to deflect blame onto the right wingers and away from intel and the mob.


Interesting possibility. I could never make sense of what Ruby was doing.

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:


Then why do you choose to attempt character assassination on Wilcott with largely irrelevant allegations?

It's almost as though you had read that CIA document which lays out several methods of combating allegations the CIA is afraid of.

I think that Wilcott's mindset and his experiences with the CIA are relevant to determining his motive in speaking to the HSCA.

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6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I will rewrite the above in a more reasonable way.

The whole Wilcott matter can be summed up this way. You can believe that Wilcott was correct in his assertions and LHO was part of a CIA program. In that case, at least 18 CIA employees from Tokyo chose to comply with non-disclosure agreements they had signed. Because they might be subject to imprisonment if they did otherwise.

I'm sure they could have worked out an immunity deal with Congress.

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Nearly two decades ago, the Assassination Records Review Board liberated secret documents from the 1978 HSCA cover-up of … I mean hidden files on CIA accountant James Wilcott.  The page below shows that a voice stress analysis was performed on Wilcott by the committee and that he passed. It also indicates that the CIA’s cryptonym for the “Oswald Project” was RX-ZIM.

Wilcott_0003a.gif

Just two pages later, there are more stunning revelations.  Read the last three paragraphs in the document below.  To me, the most chilling sentence is, “Son refuses to testify since committee cannot guarantee anyone’s security and since witnesses are still dying.”

 

Wilcott_0005a.gif

The HSCA’s long-suppressed transcript of Mr. Wilcott’s testimony seemed to indicate he couldn’t, or wouldn’t, remember many of the people around him at the Japan CIA station who may have had knowledge of the “Oswald Project.”  As the ARRB discovered, however, Mr. Wilcott actually remembered people at the station in excruciating detail and provided them with that information.

Wilcott_0007a.gif

 

In my opinion, the HSCA’s treachery was far worse than the worthless investigation by the Warren Commission, which may have been largely fooled by the FBI and the CIA.  The HSCA knew far more than the WC, and it lied to us right between the eyes.

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Posted (edited)

Jim Hargrove said:

Nearly two decades ago, the Assassination Records Review Board liberated secret documents from the 1978 HSCA cover-up of … I mean hidden files on CIA accountant James Wilcott.  The page below shows that a voice stress analysis was performed on Wilcott by the committee and that he passed. It also indicates that the CIA’s cryptonym for the “Oswald Project” was RX-ZIM.

You are correct that a stress analysis was performed on Wilcott and he passed. Assuming the test was accurate, all this means is that Wilcott believed what he was saying was the truth, which I really don’t doubt. People can believe just about anything. However, the weight of the evidence does not back him up.

The hidden files to which you refer appear to simply be notes about Wilcott from an unknown source. Your statement that RX-ZIM was a cryptonym for the “Oswald project” is an irresponsible one and without a source other than these notes. This cryptonym does not appear in two CT respected sources, namely Mary Ferrell and John Newman (Countdown to darkness). If you enter “rx-zim” with quotes at Mary Ferrell, you get 3 hits-the document to which you refer, Harvey & Lee by Armstrong and a Fourth Decade article by Armstrong. Bottom line-this is just a note from an unknown source and another example of Armstrong/Hargrove using an anomaly to further their theory.

Presumably, the source for this RX-ZIM information was Wilcott. But, if this was the cryptonym, why did Wilcott say he didn’t remember the cryptonym? If the source was other than Wilcott why would they not provide it? Anticipating your answer, if they wanted to hide it, why mention it at all?

Just two pages later, there are more stunning revelations.  Read the last three paragraphs in the document below.  To me, the most chilling sentence is, “Son refuses to testify since committee cannot guarantee anyone’s security and since witnesses are still dying.”

It might be stunning if we knew who this was referring to and if it could be verified. As it exists, it is just a notation in a file with no supporting evidence. It's also surprising that the "hit squad" didn't just take out Wilcott before he testified and save a lot of time and trouble dealing with him.

The HSCA’s long-suppressed transcript of Mr. Wilcott’s testimony seemed to indicate he couldn’t, or wouldn’t, remember many of the people around him at the Japan CIA station who may have had knowledge of the “Oswald Project.”  As the ARRB discovered, however, Mr. Wilcott actually remembered people at the station in excruciating detail and provided them with that information.

The testimony does not indicate any such thing. They ask him for names of employees and he supplies a list. But the HSCA interviewed 18 Tokyo employees and none would verify any of his information. If they were only interested in a cover-up, they would have just dismissed his allegations with no further investigation and would not have conducted 18 interviews which could have exposed the plot.

The Wilcott case is an interesting one and probably should be studied more fully as an example of a well-meaning person who ran off the rails. I have too much on my plate to do it now though. EDIT: I have uncovered even more information on Wilcott (the guy was a lunatic) so I will be doing another update.

Edited by W. Tracy Parnell

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