Jump to content
The Education Forum
Douglas Caddy

Lee Harvey Oswald and the Linguistic Problem

Recommended Posts

Lee Harvey Oswald and the Linguistic Problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltNRhSnJ2C4

 

YouTube viewer comment: What she's really talking about is the differences between Harvey & Lee as described by John Armstrong...Interesting that recently someone noticed that the Oswald at the police station said "No one axed me that"...They claim "axed" was a way New Orleans people pronounced "asked" so that is problematic to Armstrong's theory...Never the less this woman (name not given) is not the only person to notice the differences between the Oswald who was arrested and Lee Harvey Oswald...

 

Another viewer comment: The speaker is trained in linguistics and feels LHO is not speaking with a Texan accent. His method of self-expression also does not correlate with his minimal education. Among other points she raises, LHO was able to converse in Russian like a person from a neighboring country. Maria thought he was from Belarus or perhaps Latvia.

Edited by Douglas Caddy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good video.

Yet, LHO did not kill JFK.

The video and such threads are a waste of time and debate.

That is my opinion. I think it is important to point out what I am saying.

Investigation into LHO is being "On the Trai of the Non-Assassin".

No disrespect meant, Michael.

Regards,

Michael

Edited by Michael Clark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“On the trail of the non - assassin,” is an excellent way to describe much of the conversation here. And that is why I tired of the matter a few years ago.

The accused assassin was a Marine , a multilingual married man with a lover on the side who got used by powerful forces who felt Kennedy was a threat to the security of the United States. 

My only question is out of the hundred or so reasons different people felt Kennedy had to go, which reason was actually a National Security issue? 

 

 

 

Edited by Peter McGuire
Mispelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said:

Lee Harvey Oswald and the Linguistic Problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltNRhSnJ2C4

 

 Among other points she raises, LHO was able to converse in Russian like a person from a neighboring country. Maria thought he was from Belarus or perhaps Latvia.

I don't know how you would reconcile this.

The doctor's report from October 23, 1959 following Oswald's "suicide attempt" on October 21st:

"The patient does not speak Russian. One could judge only by his gestures and facial expression that he had no complaints.... According to his statement in the Admission Ward - with the aid of an interpreter..."

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=478&tab=page

 

How you go from that to conversing like a native in a year and a half is...  (problematic?)

 

Steve Thomas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Peter McGuire said:

“On the trail of the non - assassin,” is an excellent way to describe much of the conversation here. And that is why I tired of the matter a few years ago.

The accused assassin was a Marine , a multilingual married man with a lover on the side who got used by powerful forces who felt Kennedy was a threat to the security of the United States. 

My only question is out of the hundred or so reasons different people felt Kennedy had to go, which reason was actually a National Security issue? 

 

 

 

Hi Peter,

I have a hypothesis that I have stated a few times. I try to avoid repeating ad-infintum, and to the annoyance of other members. But it is brief, and it is in response to your direct question. So I will repeat it.

The straw that broke the camel's back was Guantanamo.I believe that American control of Guantanamo would not have survived peace negotiations, normalization of relations or detente. A perpetually antagonistic relationship with Cuba is what was prescribed for Cuba and is, indeed, what we got.

 

Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 6:52 PM, Douglas Caddy said:

Lee Harvey Oswald and the Linguistic Problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltNRhSnJ2C4

 YouTube viewer comment: What she's really talking about is the differences between Harvey & Lee as described by John Armstrong...

Interesting that recently someone noticed that the Oswald at the police station said "No one axed me that"...They claim "axed" was a way New Orleans people pronounced "asked" so that is problematic to Armstrong's theory...Never the less this woman (name not given) is not the only person to notice the differences between the Oswald who was arrested and Lee Harvey Oswald...

Another viewer comment: The speaker is trained in linguistics and feels LHO is not speaking with a Texan accent. His method of self-expression also does not correlate with his minimal education. Among other points she raises, LHO was able to converse in Russian like a person from a neighboring country. Maria thought he was from Belarus or perhaps Latvia.

John,

I think a lot of people noticed that Lee Harvey Oswald -- recently picked up and beaten by the police for killing JD Tippit -- looked into the TV cameras as he was asked, "Did you kill the President?"

Lee Harvey Oswald said, "No, I have not been charged with that.  In fact, nobody has said that to me, yet.  The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the hall AXED me that question."

I believe that Oswald's broke a little bit with that answer -- but he quickly recovered, to put on a brave face.

Now this linguistic question arises -- but it's bogus.  The questioner wants to prove that Lee Harvey Oswald was not a Texan, because he used the pronunciation, "AXED" instead of , "ASKED."

Well, heck, nobody ever said Oswald was a Texan!   Oswald was born in New Orleans, Louisiana, and he grew up there.

Then, when his mother married the wealthy Edwin Albert Ekdahl, they ultimately moved to New York City, and then they divorced.   While in New York City young Lee Harvey Oswald would skip school, walk the streets, frequent the zoo and public library.  Reportedly young Oswald became so rebellious that he was remanded to a public psychiatrist, who reported that Oswald was becoming self-centered, withdrawn and bitter.

So -- no -- Lee Harvey Oswald was not a Texan.  

It was only later in life -- when Oswald was already a teenager -- that his family moved to Texas for a long stretch, at which point young Oswald became a latch-key kid -- because his two older brothers worked like their mother, from sunrise to sunset, and young Oswald came home from school right away -- virtually no friends -- and spent all his time reading.

His cousin, Marilyn Murrett, later reported that young Lee Harvey Oswald would read encyclopedias the way other people would read novels.  Oswald was truly book oriented -- with few social skills.   This also means that Oswald didn't learn many linguistic skills in Texas, either.  When Oswald turned 17, he dropped out of high school and joined the Marines.

According to Marine buddies Nelson Delgado and Kerry Thornley -- Lee Harvey Oswald taught himself to read Russian in California, at the El Toro military base in 1959, by using the "Berlitz" method of language instruction.  Lee spent most of his free time at the base -- not caring about shore leave -- and read, read, read, read.   Just like a latch-key kid.

Although Marina Oswald opined that the 20-year old's Russian accent was from Latvia -- it was common for Eastern Europeans to migrate to Minsk, which was full of Russian speakers with thick and horrible accents.   In Fort Worth in 1962, Russian language teacher Peter Gregory gave his own opinion -- Oswald had a "Polish" accent.

Also in 1962, George De Mohrenschildt was impressed by Lee Harvey Oswald's command of the English language -- for a young man who had spent only three years in Russia.  George was under no illusions that Lee Harvey Oswald was educated.   He wasn't.  But self-teaching Russian was truly an accomplishment to be proud of.

George was Russian, and his children were older than Lee Harvey Oswald, and they could hardly speak Russian at all -- they were big disappointments to George.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
typos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went looking for the cemetery with Oswald's grave on one of my first trips to Texas. I pulled into a Dallas

cemetery to ask for directions to the right one. The man there was nice and told me where Oswald is buried (in Fort Worth), but he insisted

Oswald was not from Dallas, he was from Fort Worth. Oswald sure got around for a guy of only 24.

Edited by Joseph McBride

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said by Paul T. about LHOs askcent LOL. But in all seriousness  people move around. My family  moved 7 times in 10 years. This was a non military family  too.

Just because  someone  moves a lot doesn't  mean it's  for  a  sinister reason.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/3/2017 at 3:48 AM, Peter McGuire said:

“On the trail of the non - assassin,” is an excellent way to describe much of the conversation here. And that is why I tired of the matter a few years ago.

Think of it this way….

“On the trail of the designated patsy in the murder of JFK,”  seems a bit more significant, eh? The designated patsy is important in two different ways.  First, for the set up itself and second for the silencing of the patsy.  

Richard Sprague, chief counsel to the U.S. House Select Committee on Assassinations said that, if he had it to do over again, he would begin his investigation of the Kennedy assassination by probing “Oswald's ties to the Central Intelligence Agency.”  Sen. Richard Schweiker said, "We do know Oswald had intelligence connections. Everywhere you look with him, there're fingerprints of intelligence." 

The silencing of “Lee Harvey Oswald” is even clearer.  Jack Ruby called KLIF radio’s Gordon McLendon on the very day of the assassination, and said he could be reached that night at the KLIF station.  And who was Gordon McLendon?  He was a childhood friend of the CIA’s David Atlee Phillips.  When Phillips founded the Association of Former Intelligence Officers (AFIO), an organization for retired CIA agents, McClendon was one of the founding charter members. 

“Lee Harvey Oswald” is our most direct length to the plotters of JFK’s murder.

On 12/3/2017 at 3:48 AM, Peter McGuire said:

My only question is out of the hundred or so reasons different people felt Kennedy had to go, which reason was actually a National Security issue? 

What CIA accountant James Wilcott called the “Oswald Project” was a U.S. intelligence operation.  And JFK was assassinated to provoke an invasion of Cuba.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎12‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 4:24 AM, Steve Thomas said:

I don't know how you would reconcile this.

The doctor's report from October 23, 1959 following Oswald's "suicide attempt" on October 21st:

"The patient does not speak Russian. One could judge only by his gestures and facial expression that he had no complaints.... According to his statement in the Admission Ward - with the aid of an interpreter..."

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=478&tab=page

How you go from that to conversing like a native in a year and a half is...  (problematic?)

Steve Thomas

Steve, 

Lee Harvey Oswald taught himself to read Russian by using the Berlitz Method at El Toro Marine base in California during 1959, and had nobody with whom to practice Russian conversation before he was accepted into Russian society (Delgado, Thornley, et al. 1964).

So it makes sense that Lee would be unable to speak "word one" in an ordinary Russian conversation at that Russian hospital in 1959.

After he lived in Russia for two years, speaking no English, his Russian conversation skills greatly improved because of his ability to read Russian.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
typos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People keep seeing and hearing what they want to see and hear.  I probably speak 400 words of Russian and know some rudimentary grammar.  Watching a Russian movie or listening to a conversation when we are in Belarus, however, I can follow pretty much nothing.  It all just happens too fast.  I can well believe someone attempting to speak with me in a Minsk hospital would conclude I knew no Russian at all.  But, since I do know 400 words of Russian and have been watching Russian movies and joking around with my Russian wife in pigeon Russian for the past 9 years, I can also well believe that if we moved to Minsk and I were immersed in the culture for 18 months, at the end of that time someone who had met me when I arrived would conclude I was a language genius.  It just isn't that mysterious - unless you "need" a mystery to fit your pet theory.

To Paul's point, when I first arrived and was forced to be saying "I don't understand" all the time (which sounds like "YANEEPENEEMYO"), our relatives were amazed at my "native" pronunciation.  They mocked my brother-in-law, who had prepared extensively for his first visit but went around saying "YAW ... KNEE ... PENNY ... MY ... OOO" like a hillbilly.  The difference was that I had used the Pimsleur CD course and thus had listened to and pronounced the words hundreds of times, whereas he had used a written course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

 Watching a Russian movie or listening to a conversation when we are in Belarus, however, I can follow pretty much nothing.  It all just happens too fast. 

 

Lance,

 

Приветствую.

 

I have studied Russian too somewhat.

I know how hard it is.

 

Steve Thomas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Lance,

Приветствую.

I have studied Russian too somewhat.

I know how hard it is.

Steve Thomas

Learning Russian is no harder than learning New Testament Greek.

Sure, learning any new language -- especially after 20 -- is extremely hard work.  But it's easier to learn another language where your alphabet is the same, e.g. English to Spanish.

When you also have a new alphabet -- as with Russian or Greek -- you double the difficulty.  All the same -- when a person is motivated to learn a new language -- for a new career or passion -- it's not impossible.

The secret is always linguistic IMMERSION.   This was partly what Ruth Paine was seeking by encouraging Marina Oswald to live with her -- IMMERSION.  You can't buy IMMERSION.  You have to travel for it -- or you must have family and friends.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
typos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Lance,

 

Приветствую.

 

I have studied Russian too somewhat.

I know how hard it is.

 

Steve Thomas


I studied Russian in high school. All I remember is "privyet tavalish" and "babushka." ("Greetings comrade" and "grandmother.")

I recall some of the alphabet but only because, as an engineer, I used a lot of the Greek alphabet for math and physics. And I now realize -- from your word -- that the Russian alphabet borrows from the Greek. I can't read the whole word, but the first half looks like "privyet" (greetings).

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:


I studied Russian in high school. All I remember is "privyet tavalish" and "babushka." ("Greetings comrade" and "grandmother.")

I recall some of the alphabet but only because, as an engineer, I used a lot of the Greek alphabet for math and physics. And I now realize -- from your word -- that the Russian alphabet borrows from the Greek. I can't read the whole word, but the first half looks like "privyet" (greetings).

 

Sandy,

 

I don't want to derail the topic of this thread, but I have been struck by how the Cyrillic languages resemble each other and how the Romance languages resemble each other.

I wonder when they split and why.

 

Steve Thomas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×