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Lance Payette

The H&L "two schools at the same time" mystery

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13 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Jim,

I've already debunked this -- but you didn't listen.

That second document has a field labeled, "Originally Admitted',' and has a DATE.   That field is the DATE that Lee Harvey Oswald was "Originally Admitted" to the Beauregard Public Junior High School.   That DATE given is January 13, 1954.

To an unbiased reader, that means that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't registered at Beauregard Public School for the first semester.  He spent that semester at some other school.   Not Beauregard.  Young Oswald started this second semester at Beauregard.

But you have refused to admit this simple fact.   Based on your biased refusal, the rest of the evidence just flies right over your head.

So -- why bother arguing with you?   Your mind is made up.  It's much more interesting to engage with David Von Pein against James DiEugenio.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Likewise quoted for the record.

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52 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Jim,

I've already debunked this -- but you didn't listen.

That second document has a field labeled, "Originally Admitted',' and has a DATE.   That field is the DATE that Lee Harvey Oswald was "Originally Admitted" to the Beauregard Public Junior High School.   That DATE given is January 13, 1954.

To an unbiased reader, that means that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't registered at Beauregard Public School for the first semester.  He spent that semester at some other school.   Not Beauregard.  Young Oswald started this second semester at Beauregard.

But you have refused to admit this simple fact.   Based on your biased refusal, the rest of the evidence just flies right over your head.

So -- why bother arguing with you?   Your mind is made up.  It's much more interesting to engage with David Von Pein against James DiEugenio.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Right you are Paul. The H&L gang ignores the inconvenient "originally admitted" date of January 13 as they must. This date jibes with other information (from Grote the Big Brothers representative to mention one) that shows LHO & Marguerite left NYC just before this and traveled to New Orleans. So, there really is no mystery here as Lance said in the beginning of this thread which has wandered around some.

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3 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Yet I will disagree this far with David -- just because Lee Harvey Oswald took a pot-shot at General Walker, is not sufficient proof to conclude that Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated JFK.  It's just insufficient evidence, period.

I never said that the Walker shooting proves LHO was guilty of assassinating the President. Never.

But you will have to admit, Paul, that by accepting the truth of Oswald's guilt in the Walker shooting, it makes it much easier (for anyone!) to accept the notion that this same would-be murderer (who pointed his rifle at the head of someone ELSE prior to 11/22/63) could have also pointed that same rifle at the head of another political figure (JFK) in November. Correct? (How could anyone say NO to that question?)

 

Quote

It is a fact that Oswald was on a team to try to shoot Walker.  There were at least two persons on that team (and probably a few others in the conspiracy).  We know this from eye-witnesses, and General Walker himself was always on the alert for the second shooter, who got away, he was convinced.

Can you answer this then, Paul?.....

If Oswald was part of a "team" of assassins on 4/10/63, then why did Oswald have to TAKE A BUS to get anywhere both before and after the Walker incident? Where were his "team" members (2 or more you say?) when Lee needed some transportation? Were all of his "team" members lacking automobiles and/or driver's licenses? Or do you think Lee did get a ride from a co-conspirator to go to and from the scene of the Walker shooting? And this "ride" that he got was just never revealed or discovered?

The same question, of course, needs to be asked concerning any "team" members (co-conspirators) that Oswald allegedly had on 11/22/63 as well. If he's got some HELP (of any kind), why is Oswald left to wing it on his own just after JFK was shot (via a bus, a cab, and his own two feet)?

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/hung-out-to-dry.html

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/12/edwin-walker-and-lee-harvey-oswald.html

Edited by David Von Pein

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7 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

I never said that the Walker shooting proves LHO was guilty on Nov. 22. Never.

But you will have to admit, Paul, that by accepting the truth of Oswald's guilt in the Walker shooting, it makes it much easier (for anyone!) to accept the notion that this same would-be murderer (who pointed his rifle at the head of someone ELSE prior to 11/22/63) could have also pointed that same rifle at the head of another political figure (JFK) in November. Correct? (How could anyone say NO to that question?)

 

Can you answer this then, Paul?.....

If Oswald was part of a "team" of assassins on 4/10/63, then why did Oswald have to TAKE A BUS to get anywhere both before and after the Walker incident? Where were his "team" members (2 or more you say?) when Lee needed some transportation?

The same question, of course, needs to be be asked concerning any "team" members (co-conspirators) that Oswald allegedly had on 11/22/63 as well. If he's got some HELP (of any kind), why is Oswald left to wing it on his own just after JFK was shot (via a bus, a cab, and his own two feet)?

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/hung-out-to-dry.html

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/12/edwin-walker-and-lee-harvey-oswald.html

Cudos to DVP for calling Paul Trejo out on his misrepresentations, obfuscations and other misrepresentations  that cannot, here, be clearly and honestly characterized and stated.

Edited by Michael Clark

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On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 2:10 PM, Sandy Larsen said:


I'm afraid that you have poor chart reading skills. Or maybe your skepticism is mucking up your thinking. These records are very easy for me to understand and I'm sure they would be for all my high school buddies. And certainly for all my college mates given that I was in engineering.

 

I have now done a fair amount of online research concerning school years and grading periods in New York and Louisiana public schools in the 1950's and 1960s, including school calendars published in contemporary newspapers.  I have not found anything suggesting the extraordinary system that you say P.S. 44 and Beauregard were both using.  I have found no reference to a "semester" at the elementary, junior high or high school level.  I have found only what I have been describing - a school year extending from September to May or June, broken into grading periods of approximately six weeks.  The most that I have found are a few casual references to a "fall term" and a "spring term," meaning "the portion of the school year beginning in the fall" and "the portion of the school year beginning after the Christmas break and continuing into the spring."

You cannot simply say your interpretation is obvious from the records when (1) it is not obvious at all, at least to highly educated moi, and (2) it would have been an unusual system, one out of synch with the historical records that I have been able to locate.  You cannot simply force every item of evidence into a Harvey & Lee mold to suit your purposes.  Your interpretation is "easy" to you only because, like most conspiracy theorists, you start with the result you want and make the evidence fit that result.

It should be a simple matter to determine from New York and Louisiana educational officials, either at the state level or at the level of P.S. 44 and Beauregard themselves, what the school year was in 1953/1954, how often grades were assigned, and what these records really reflect.  (I recently visited the elementary school that I attended from 1956-1962, and they had all sorts of old records.  I still have my report cards from 1956.)  This would, of course, involve the risk of the H&L Sect being exposed for having spent years screaming "MYSTERY!!!" where no mystery actually exists.  But perhaps you'll get lucky and the officials will be mystified.  I am not going to do this because I don't think there is any mystery at all - and I'm betting you aren't going to do it because you fear there isn't any mystery at all.  It's much more fun to preserve the "MYSTERY!!!"

While suggesting that I have poor chart reading skills, you seem oblivious to the fact that the Beauregard record plainly states LHO was "Originally Admitted 1954-1-13," which is (1) when he in fact was originally admitted, and (2) the nail in the coffin of your interpretation.  What a hoot you Flat Earthers can be.

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4 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

That second document has a field labeled, "Originally Admitted',' and has a DATE.   That field is the DATE that Lee Harvey Oswald was "Originally Admitted" to the Beauregard Public Junior High School.   That DATE given is January 13, 1954.

Oh, please.  We've already discussed this.  The 1/13/54 date is the time LEE Oswald entered Beauregard; approximately at the beginning of the spring (or second) semester of the 1953/54 school year.  HARVEY Oswald had already attended the entire first semester (the fall semester) of the '53/54 school year, as is clearly shown on the Beauregard record.  Much as you wish to, you cannot make this evidence go away.

Once more, how do you explain the presence of "Lee Harvey Oswald" at Beauregard for a full 89 days in the fall semester of the '53/54 school year, clearly BEFORE the 1/13/54 date?  The evidence is right in front of your nose!  

Beauregard%20Record.jpg

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11 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Oh, please.  We've already discussed this.  The 1/13/54 date is the time LEE Oswald entered Beauregard; approximately at the beginning of the spring (or second) semester of the 1953/54 school year.  HARVEY Oswald had already attended the entire first semester (the fall semester) of the '53/54 school year, as is clearly shown on the Beauregard record.  Much as you wish to, you cannot make this evidence go away.

When I debated the real Flat Earthers, I assumed for a large portion of the debate that it was all tongue-in-cheek, that we all knew the Earth isn't really flat.  Then I realized to my astonishment that, no, it wasn't all tongue-in-cheek.  Then it became extremely not tongue-in-cheek and ceased to be any fun at all.  Astronauts like John Glenn?  They're all lying, the most disgusting conspirators of all.  The edges of the Earth?  You'll never reach them, the guardians will see to that.  The seasons, how do they work?  It's tricky, but we have an answer.

HARVEY attended Beauregard from September of 1953 and then LEE attended the same school from and after January of 1954?  I had no idea.  And this is clearly shown in the Beauregard records?  Well, you're right - I can't make "evidence" like that go away.  If I got close to the edge, the guardians would stop me.

Honestly, I find this H&L stuff absolutely disorienting.

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39 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

I have found no reference to a "semester" at the elementary, junior high or high school level.

Holy crap!  Mr. Payette is denying the existence of "semesters" in primary as well as secondary education in the United States!

He, apparently, has never heard of the "spring semester" or the "fall semester" in elementary or secondary schools!

Do the H&L critics wish to endorse Mr. Payette's peculiar opinions?

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2 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

Honestly, I find this H&L stuff absolutely disorienting.

Of course you do.  You believe the Warren Report.

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4 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Holy crap!  Mr. Payette is denying the existence of "semesters" in primary as well as secondary education in the United States!

He, apparently, has never heard of the "spring semester" or the "fall semester" in elementary or secondary schools!

Do the H&L critics wish to endorse Mr. Payette's peculiar opinions?

Well, you're quite right - I haven't.  In fact, that was my point - I tried to find references in the 1950s and 1960s to elementary, junior high or high school years being divided into distinct semesters in New York or Louisiana.  I did not find any.  You are apparently suggesting it was common.  Perhaps it was, I'm simply saying I found no examples from New York or Louisiana.  Provide some examples and I'll cheerfully concede the point.  Provide something authoritative from a New York or Louisiana educational official who states that these records show what you say they show and I'll cheerfully concede the point.  My "peculiar" opinions are based upon my own experience with the Arizona educational system during approximately the same time period, as well as historical documents suggesting that New York and Louisiana operated the same way.  We simply had an "8th grade school year" extending from September to May, broken into approximately six-week grading periods, with a promotion to 9th grade if all went well.   I don't care whether anyone "endorses" my opinions - just provide the proof that what I am suggesting is incorrect, which you seem to be suggesting is an easy task.

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OK, Lance.  From Wikepedia....

The school year is usually split into two semesters. These semesters are also divided, with some schools holding examinations each half-semester. The first semester runs from September 1 till the middle of January and is divided by the fall vacation, which is around All Saints' Day and lasts for a week.

What else do you want?

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13 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

OK, Lance.  From Wikepedia....

The school year is usually split into two semesters. These semesters are also divided, with some schools holding examinations each half-semester. The first semester runs from September 1 till the middle of January and is divided by the fall vacation, which is around All Saints' Day and lasts for a week.

What else do you want?

Oh, come on.  You conveniently did not tell us your Wikipedia source, which is the Wikipedia article on "Academic Term," https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_term.  The passage you have quoted pertains to the schools in HUNGARY, hence the reference to "All Saints' Day."  You shortened the first sentence, which actually reads "The school year (tanév) is usually split into two semesters (félév)." Read the entry on the UNITED STATES, and you will find quite a different discussion.

Don't try to BS a lawyer.

Yes, references to semesters are more common at the K-12 level TODAY.  A 12-month school year is more common TODAY.  The educational system is organized quite differently TODAY from what it was in the fifties.

What else do I want?

1.  Show me that New York and Louisiana school years were divided in the manner you are suggesting during the 1953/1954 time frame.

2.  Ideally, show me that P.S. 44 and Beauregard Junior High divided their school years in the manner you are suggesting during the 1953/1954 time frame.

3.  Ask knowledgeable New York and Louisiana educational authorities whether LHO's records show what you think they "clearly" show or can reasonably be interpreted in the manner you are suggesting they must be interpreted.

4.  While you're at it, kindly explain what conceivable sense it would make, even within the four corners of the H&L theory, for HARVEY to have attended Beauregard the first half of the 1953/1954 school year and LEE to have attended the second half.

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Can this guy be for real?

I mean what do you have to do to pass the BAR in Colorado?  Be able to read the alphabet?

When I went to high school and JHS back in the sixties, we had two semesters.  We had classes that were part 1 and 2, of say in World History.

We also had classes that were simply one semester in length, like health, and language arts, sometimes called Word Study.  

Those classes were only good for 5 credits, and the two part classes were 10 credits if you passed them both. If you failed you repeated the one you flunked out of, that is what summer school was for. And summer school classes were adjusted for that time factor.  

The idea that this system was not in use back then is belied by that experience.  When I started being an educator in the seventies, in Pennsylvania that system was still in place. When I moved to California in the eighties, it was the same system.

Why that system would not be in place in Texas or Louisiana, that is something that Lance has to prove, not Jim Hargrove.  Because the nine month schedule was national.  As was summer school.  Public schools have to have summer school for various reasons.

These guys really break me up sometimes.  They always conveniently forget that they have the burden of proof.  

And Lance is a lawyer.  He would have bee right at home on the WC.

 

Edited by James DiEugenio

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On 12/30/2017 at 4:14 PM, David Von Pein said:

I never said that the Walker shooting proves LHO was guilty of assassinating the President. Never.

But you will have to admit, Paul, that by accepting the truth of Oswald's guilt in the Walker shooting, it makes it much easier (for anyone!) to accept the notion that this same would-be murderer (who pointed his rifle at the head of someone ELSE prior to 11/22/63) could have also pointed that same rifle at the head of another political figure (JFK) in November. Correct? (How could anyone say NO to that question?)

Can you answer this then, Paul?.....

If Oswald was part of a "team" of assassins on 4/10/63, then why did Oswald have to TAKE A BUS to get anywhere both before and after the Walker incident? Where were his "team" members (2 or more you say?) when Lee needed some transportation? Were all of his "team" members lacking automobiles and/or driver's licenses? Or do you think Lee did get a ride from a co-conspirator to go to and from the scene of the Walker shooting? And this "ride" that he got was just never revealed or discovered?

The same question, of course, needs to be asked concerning any "team" members (co-conspirators) that Oswald allegedly had on 11/22/63 as well. If he's got some HELP (of any kind), why is Oswald left to wing it on his own just after JFK was shot (via a bus, a cab, and his own two feet)? 

David,

I never said that LHO was a choir-boy.   Never.

Never did I argue that for the TOTAL innocence of LHO in the JFK Assassination, otherwise I think your argument would have more impact.  I have only agreed that LHO was part of a conspiracy to kill General Walker -- not that he was the shooter.   He also told Marina Oswald his motives for the Walker shooting, namely, that "if somebody had killed Adolf Hitler before WW2 got started, the entire world would have been spared a horrible tragedy!

Isn't that a true statement?  (How could anyone say NO to that remark?)

Actually, Volkmar Schmidt admitted publicly, on video, that he was that guy at the Dallas engineers' party who spent a lot of time to convince Lee Harvey Oswald that General Walker was so evil that the only correct comparison was with Adolf Hitler.  Thus, the only correct solution was to shoot General Walker before he did more damage (since the Ole Miss racial riots were only 16 weeks before that Dallas party).   

(Now, Volkmar Schmidt was a close friend of George DeMohrenschildt, who called General Walker, "General Fokker", and he was a mentor to LHO.)   My point here was to show that LHO was not alone in wanting Walker dead.

NOW FOR YOUR SECOND QUESTION:

I argue that LHO was part of a Team to assassinate General Walker.  Then you challenge: "So why did LHO take a BUS to get anywhere?"   My reply -- what evidence do you have that LHO took a bus to and from the Walker shooting?   Again, I believe that LHO lied often to Marina Oswald -- her ignorance would protect her.

Yes, I believe that LHO did get a car ride from a co-conspirator in the Walker shooting --- We have an eye-witnesses who reported multiple people in at least one escaping car. 

Are you familiar with the WC testimony of James Herbert Martin?  He was Marina's business manager along with Robert Oswald, beginning in the first few days after the JFK Assassination.   His testimony is in Vol. #1 of the WC Hearings.  One of the first things that Martin testifies is that a man, "Mr. Morris" or similar name came to visit Marina Oswald with an important question on behalf of General Walker.

General Walker wanted to know what else Marina knew about the second shooter.  General Walker was worried that the second shooter was still at large, and would try to kill him again.   James Martin did not allow "Mr. Morris" to interview Marina at that time.  There were most likely two shooters and one car.

You have the same question about LHO and the "bus" regarding his journey from the TSBD after the JFK assassination -- why did he take the bus (taxi, etc.)   My question to you is the same! 

What evidence do you have that LHO actually took any bus?   Have you read the WC testimony of the alleged bus driver, the alleged bus passenger, or the alleged taxi driver?  Each one falls apart like a house of cards.  These were all cases of "mistaken identity" -- to be generous to them.

Still, I do maintain that LHO was a Team Player in the JFK Assassination.   He knew these guys.  He knew how evil they were, and he decided to support their goals.   One of their goals included the Assassination of Fidel Castro.  The Mexico City trip is explained entirely by this goal.   

But I digress again.   Are you familiar with the WC testimony of Dallas Deputy Roger Craig?   He claimed he saw LHO exit the TSBD area into a Green Rambler driven by a dark-skinned man, and speed away.  The WC attorneys doubted him, but I find him believable

Regards,
--Paul Trejo  

Edited by Paul Trejo
typos

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8 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Oh, please.  We've already discussed this.  The 1/13/54 date is the time LEE Oswald entered Beauregard; approximately at the beginning of the spring (or second) semester of the 1953/54 school year.  HARVEY Oswald had already attended the entire first semester (the fall semester) of the '53/54 school year, as is clearly shown on the Beauregard record.  Much as you wish to, you cannot make this evidence go away.

Once more, how do you explain the presence of "Lee Harvey Oswald" at Beauregard for a full 89 days in the fall semester of the '53/54 school year, clearly BEFORE the 1/13/54 date?  The evidence is right in front of your nose!  

Beauregard%20Record.jpg

Jim,

Again, the DATA is already on the second form.  It is a SUMMARY of the year, 1953/1954, so the grades from LHO's earlier school, PS#44 in New York City, were obtained by the clerks of the Beauregard Junior High School in Louisiana, from the clerks at the PS#44 Junior High School in New York.  SOP, obviously.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

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