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5 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Referring to the photo analysis by Gil. Connolly reacted to the shot that whizzed past him and entered JFK’s throat. Looked like it was to Connolly’s left. Did you see it differently? I think he was implying that the bullet went through the windshield first.

I always found that part of Gil's analysis highly speculative.

I'd personally speculate that Black Dog Man fired the shot, which then deflected down and to the right.

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On 9/23/2018 at 5:56 AM, Mathias Baumann said:

Shellfish toxin can cause what is called paralytic shellfish poisoning (PSP).

Could that explain Kennedy's grasping at his throat?

I never believed he grabbed his throat as seen in the z-film. It looks like his body simply reacted from probably a hit to either the neck or the back. This of course is my non-professional/medical opinion. I have also always wondered if that back brace played a role in his physical reaction.

Edited by B. A. Copeland

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2 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Certain of what?

Who in the world is going to react to a shot in the back by putting their hands in front of their throat?

It seems to me folks engage in witness bashing when Glenn Bennett's notes are ignored, and the testimony of close proximity witnesses are ignored.

From the WC testimony of close proximity witness Linda Willis:

<quote on>

Mr. Liebler: Did you hear any shots, or what you later learned to be shots, as the motorcade came past you there?

Miss Willis: Yes; I heard one. Then there was a little bit of time, and then there were two real fast bullets together. When the first one hit, well, the President turned from waving to the people, and he grabbed his throat, and he kind of slumped forward, and then I couldn't tell where the second shot went.

<quote off>

From the WC testimony of close proximity witness Nellie Connally:

<quote>

Mrs. Connally:...I heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right. I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as he had both hands at his neck.

Mr. Specter: And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands crossing over gripping your own neck?

Mrs. Connally: Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance, no cry.  I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.

<quote off>

 

Certain that he's grabbing his tie.  Or extending a finger.  If you read my response I said I was inclined to agree with Gil's hypothesis, but that the idea you can see WITH CERTAINTY what JFK's hands, let alone individual fingers are doing is nonsense.  At least in the images on this thread.

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3 hours ago, B. A. Copeland said:

I never believed he grabbed his throat as seen in the z-film. It looks like his body simply reacted from probably a hit to either the neck or the back. This of course is my non-professional/medical opinion. I have also always wondered if that back brace played a role in his physical reaction.

Ever been hit in the back?

If you have I seriously doubt you brought your hands up in the vicinity of your throat.

No doubt you'd arch your back and throw your head back.

Check out hit-by-pitch vids on Youtube.

Why would a back brace around his waist cause his hands to raise to the level of his throat?

 

Edited by Cliff Varnell

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1 hour ago, Michael Cross said:

Certain that he's grabbing his tie.  Or extending a finger.  If you read my response I said I was inclined to agree with Gil's hypothesis, but that the idea you can see WITH CERTAINTY what JFK's hands, let alone individual fingers are doing is nonsense.  At least in the images on this thread.

On what basis do you impeach the eye witness testimony of Glenn Bennett, Nellie Connally, and Linda Willis?

We're into "implied witness bashing" territory here...

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This is the Willis 5 photo (Z202). 

Phil Willis stated that he took this picture while startled by a shot.  SS SA Glenn Bennett is on the far right, seated facing to the right.  He wasn't looking at Kennedy at the time of the first shot.

And yet he accurately described the location of the back wound in contemporaneous notes; "four inches down from the right shoulder".

The back shot couldn't have been the first shot unless you assert that Bennett made it all up and had a lucky guess on the back wound location.

Gratuitous witness bashing in my book.

 

Edited by Cliff Varnell

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23 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

22 hollow point from the front.  No exit when shooting a rabbit, squirrel, or human throat.  Bullet mushrooms and shards disperse from the edges.  Shuts him up regarding what happens next.  Pre autopsy x-ray. Pre autopsy surgery to remove bullet and fragments from entry wound and ensuing tracheostomy (along with other bullets/fragments elsewhere?).  Open his eyes back up, somehow, the Priest in Dallas said they were closed.  Bingo, you have the death stare photo with the butchered throat.

Still wish Bob Prudhome was around to analyze the ballistics.  I trusted his judgement. 

This is correct.  The frontal shots were hallow points.  Things to consider:  

Analysis of Data for the windshields properties:
Is the windshield affixed or detached to a vehicle?
Is the vehicle in motion?
What speed if in motion?
What year is the vehicle? (Glass vs Safety Glass)

Analysis of Data for the ballistics Data:
Caliber of bullet use.
Grain of bullet used
Rifled or Handgun

Analysis of the shot:
Fired point blank
Fired from xx distance

 

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11 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

This is the Willis 5 photo (Z202). 

Phil Willis stated that he took this picture while startled by a shot.  SS SA Glenn Bennett is on the far right, seated facing to the right.  He wasn't looking at Kennedy at the time of the first shot.

And yet he accurately described the location of the back wound in contemporaneous notes; "four inches down from the right shoulder".

The back shot couldn't have been the first shot unless you assert that Bennett made it all up and had a lucky guess on the back wound location.

Gratuitous witness bashing in my book.

 

Bennett admitted in his statement that he wasn't looking at the President when he heard the first "fire cracker" like shot.

At this point, I heard a noise that immediately reminded me of a fire cracker. Immediately on hearing the supposed fire cracker, looked at the boss's car. At the exact time I saw a shot that hit the boss about 4 inches down from the right shoulder.a second shot followed almost immediately and hit the right rear high of the boss's head”

This could be construed as him seeing the second shot hitting JFK in the back, or that he saw the result of the first shot on JFK's shoulder, and then the second shot hitting the President in the head.

 

Edited by Ray Mitcham

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9 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Bennett admitted in his statement that he wasn't looking at the President when he heard the first "fire cracker" like shot.

At this point, I heard a noise that immediately reminded me of a fire cracker. Immediately on hearing the supposed fire cracker, looked at the boss's car. At the exact time I saw a shot that hit the boss about 4 inches down from the right shoulder.a second shot followed almost immediately and hit the right rear high of the boss's head”

This could be construed as him seeing the second shot hitting JFK in the back, or that he saw the result of the first shot on JFK's shoulder, and then the second shot hitting the President in the head.

(emphasis added)

That's from the statement he submitted to the Secret Service on the 23rd.

In both his statement on the 22nd and statement on the 23rd he said he saw JFK hit with the back shot.

How can you construe that to mean that he didn't actually see the shot?

Edited by Cliff Varnell

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On 9/22/2018 at 8:42 AM, Paul Brancato said:

The Salandria quote on your page bears repeating often. 

Paul, in my book Salandria formed a school of research devoted to a study of the obvious.

Most of the JFK Assassination Critical Community is devoted to a denial of the obvious.

There's no glory is studying the obvious.  One cannot make a name for oneself pointing out obvious facts. 

Ambitious researchers routinely deny JFK was shot in the back at T3, or that he was shot in the throat from the front.  They'd rather play the "Question of Conspiracy" parlor game in order to inflate the importance of their own work.

Bunch of self-aggrandizing hustlers, in my book...

 

 

 

Edited by Cliff Varnell

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I once pointed out to a millennial friend of mine that her generation didn't appear all that interested in the Kennedy assassination.

"That's because they make it so boring," she said, and the subject dropped.

A couple weeks later she asked me what I'd been up to and I said --"Giving people hell about the central question of the JFK assassination."  This was in the late summer of 2013.

"What is the central question of the JFK assassination?"

"You don't want to know--"

"No, tell me."

"JFK was shot in the back, there was no exit wound and no bullet found in the autopsy; he was shot in the throat, no exit, no bullet found in the autopsy.  The central question is --what happened to the bullets that caused the back and throat wounds?"

She thought for a second, then said -- "But was it a real autopsy?"

"A lot of problems with the autopsy, but that was the situation...Some people think the bullets were removed prior to the autopsy--"

"Or it was some government s-h-i* that dissolved!" she said with an air of triumph.

About a year later I told this story to another millennial friend of mine and when I got to the line "or some government s-h-i* that dissolved--" she blurted-- "That's what I was gonna say!"

Armed only with the root facts of the murder, these kids are ahead of the JFKA Critical Community by a mile.

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1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

 

That's from the statement he submitted to the Secret Service on the 23rd.

In both his statement on the 22nd and statement on the 23rd he said he saw JFK hit with the back shot.

How can you construe that to mean that he didn't actually see the shot?

Cliff, it is taken verbatim from his hand written statement on 22nd.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/exhibits/ce2112.htm

How you understand  what he wrote is up to you.

Edited by Ray Mitcham

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7 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Cliff, it is taken verbatim from his hand written statement on 22nd.

My bad!  I stand corrected -- it was from his statement on the 22nd.

Thanks for posting that, Ray.

From Bennett's statement 11/23/63:

<quote on, emphasis added>

About thirty minutes after leaving Love Field about 12:25 P.M., the Motorcade entered an intersection and then proceeded down a grade. At this point the well-wishers numbered but a few; the motorcade continued down this grade enroute to the Trade Mart. At this point I heard what sounded like a fire-cracker. I immediately looked from the right/crowd/physical area/and looked towards the President who was seated in the right rear seat of his limousine open convertible. At the moment I looked at the back of the President I heard another fire-cracker noise and saw the shot hit the President about four inches down from the right shoulder. A second shot followed immediately and hit the right rear high of the President's head. I immediately hollered "he's hit" and reached for the AR-15 located on the floor of the rear seat. Special Agent Hickey had already picked-up the AR-15. We peered towards the rear and particularly the right side of the area. I had drawn my revolver when I saw S/A Hickey had the AR15. I was unable to see anything or one that could have fired the shots. The President's car immediately kicked into high gear and the follow-up car followed.

<quote off>

 

7 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/exhibits/ce2112.htm

How you understand  what he wrote is up to you.

In his official report he said he saw the shot hit.

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22 hours ago, Mathias Baumann said:

Did he really HEAR the back shot or did he just SEE the impact of the bullet on Kennedy's back?

His official report offers more detail:

At the moment I looked at the back of the President I heard another fire-cracker noise and saw the shot hit the President about four inches down from the right shoulder. A second shot followed immediately and hit the right rear high of the President's head.

Bennett's statement is consistent with the testimonies of Nellie C and Linda W.

 

Edited by Cliff Varnell

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22 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

I agree with Gil's analysis that JFK was grabbing at the tie with his left forefinger. 

Then the finger stiffens.

 

Cliff, your certainty that you are correct gets in the way of your reading skills I think.  I've been referring to THIS statement by you when I say that you can't see what an individual finger does.  You can guess, infer . . . hypothesize. 

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