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In accordance with the pleas of people like Card, I will not post this on the--much frequented by FC and DVP thread--headed Bush not in Dallas, he is Dead.

But I just want to add this on the last aspect discussed there:  anyone who in this day and age tries to make the case that Oswald was in MC is simply not aware of the latest research on that subject.

David Josephs made a very good presentation at Gary Aguilar's private seminar on December 15th in SF.  Len Osanic was there.

Len had film of that on his BOR program last night.

As I said many months ago, his work on this subject is going to make a new paradigm in the field.  What he does is called real research.  He is one of the very few guys who is going through the newly declassified files. In some ways, he has gone beyond the Lopez Report.

He and Dan Hardway are honing in on the new model, which I believe to be the correct one.  LHO was not in MC, and a false trail was later set up by Phillips, Ochoa, and Echeverria.  The latter got a big payoff: he became president of Mexico.

Let us never forget what Hoover wrote six weeks after the assassination.  In his personal marginalia he wrote that he would not trust the CIA anymore due to the snow job they gave him on Oswald in MC.  That is one of the single most important discoveries of the ARRB.  

And it has turned out to be true.

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It seems possible to me that LHO was not in MC.  However, when I spoke with James Hosty he thought that LHO's reaction when Hosty asked him about MC was significant.  Apparently, they had been having a calm talk, but when Hosty asked him about MC, LHO blew up and then refused to talk further.  So my question is, if LHO was not in MC, what do you think he knew or not know about what was going on there? 

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Pamela:

That is something that I don't think anyone can really answer at this time.

For the simple reason that the idea of Oswald being in MC has been around for so many decades and so many people have defended it tooth and nail, not just the likes of DVP and FC, but people in our camp also.

Like I said, David Josephs has just recently been putting this together and he has added things of late that I was not even aware of.

He is doing an article on a different subject for us right now.  But hopefully, I can get him to do a written version of his December 15th talk for Kennedys and King.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

It seems possible to me that LHO was not in MC.  However, when I spoke with James Hosty he thought that LHO's reaction when Hosty asked him about MC was significant.  Apparently, they had been having a calm talk, but when Hosty asked him about MC, LHO blew up and then refused to talk further.  So my question is, if LHO was not in MC, what do you think he knew or not know about what was going on there? 

Pamela... do you have anything to support that sequence of events?  

I found this article about that very interaction:  According to the writer describing what Hosty later recalled:, Oswald seemed startled... but never had the chance to answer...

I'll keep looking....

===

Why doesn't Oswald just admit he was at Odio's and in Dallas working for the FBI?  :huh:

It appears that Oswald was a good little soldier in this charade and did not give away his alliances. Does anyone then ask - if you were not in Mexico, where were you?

63-10-18%20Hosty%20tells%20story%20of%20

Edited by David Josephs

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4 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Pamela... do you have anything to support that sequence of events?  

I found this article about that very interaction:  According to the writer describing what Hosty later recalled:, Oswald seemed startled... but never had the chance to answer...

I'll keep looking....

===

Why doesn't Oswald just admit he was at Odio's and in Dallas working for the FBI?  :huh:

It appears that Oswald was a good little soldier in this charade and did not give away his alliances. Does anyone then ask - if you were not in Mexico, where were you?

63-10-18%20Hosty%20tells%20story%20of%20

David,

Isn't it ironic that this newspaper clipping includes an announcement about GHWB's Zapata company selling shares of another company in the lower right corner?

Thanks

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Posted (edited)

:cheers  sure thing Rick...

 

Pamela - please to remember that the only evidence of Oswald himself comes from the CIA's transcript of tapes which had been listened to and helped form the conclusion it was NOT Oswald...

There was no "2nd man down there" as Hoover tries to conclude...  

There was instead either 

  1. someone playing the part of Oswald   or
  2. The name Oswald was evoked to create a desired response...

The man on the 27th was proven not to be Oswald... in fact, the CIA tells us of ONLY the two 10:30 calls and a 12:35 call - 

and since they were in fluent Spanish - "There is evidence that the calls were not related to OSWALD"....

Despite this, the FBI uses the 10:37am first call as the MUST BE IN MEXICO time to determine which buses to put him on...

and the wheels on the bus go round and round...  

 

Edited by David Josephs
that report does mention the other calls after 4pm

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Rick McTague said:

David,

Isn't it ironic that this newspaper clipping includes an announcement about GHWB's Zapata company selling shares of another company in the lower right corner?

Thanks

This is fascinating. I will reply in more detail later.  The reporter could have minimized Hosty's statements so as not to raise a red flag, or Hosty could have felt more comfortable talking with me; I don't know.  I will search for the tape I made.  

My conversation with Mr. Hosty was puzzling to me at the time.  In his book ASSIGNMENT OSWALD he spoke about seeing 'pockmarks' on the limo windshield (page 141). That fascinated me, so that was the reason for our interview.  I had been trying to view the windshield at NARA but was getting refusals along with some nice photos, and this was what I needed. (Later, I tried to use this info to get to the windshield with the Inside The Target Car/Discovery Channel team, but they quickly changed the request to something inane and I was refused again!)

But Hosty did not want to talk about the limo (that may be another story) but wanted to talk mostly about Marina.  When I realized i was not going to get anything more about the limo and that he had (also) been face-to-face with LHO, I began asking questions about the questioning on 11.22.63.  I did not get much, but then this popped out. It was all unscripted, so I did not ask all the follow-up questions I later had...

Edited by Pamela Brown

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It was in the best interest of the FBI that Oswald be placed in Mexico during this time.

Hosty was already in enough trouble for other things said in the basement of the DPD...

His "word" for Oswald's reactions and behavior have very little weight in my book... in fact I'd go as far as to say he'd put out the exact opposite of what actually transpired.

You've seen this?   https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10482#relPageId=14&tab=page  

 

5a9eba9aabdd9_HOLEinlimowindshieldonTreasuryreportt-gcd80_3-highlighted.jpg.1ed4f4a22be4d194d904191dea6eb3ff.jpg

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I was cordially invited by Jim to attend this event, and Mr. Josephs presentation was a highlight. As I said to him that day, if Oswald was in MC he would have been photographed, and we would have been shown that photo. We weren’t. Oswald’s MC sojourn was a key part of the evidence against him. So either the multiple cameras failed, or he wasn’t there. 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Paul... that was very nice of you...

--- I remember reading, but cannot put my finger on, something that said TERESA PROENZA the cultural attaché who was replaced runs into this MAN the morning of the 27th but since he did not speak Spanish and she did not speak English, she passed him off to Duran....

the morning calls were in fluent Spanish....

 

Like the quality of the Carcano having no bearing on Oswald's guilt...

The cameras working or not is a line of thought that keeps you thinking - "he was there"... if only the cameras were working"

the cameras were working... Russ Holmes' files have page after page of contact sheets...

Anne Goodpasture purposefully lied about these photos, who they were and when they were taken... Nothing was taken Oct 1 related to Oswald

But on the 2nd, 4th and 15th... we get Mystery Man

63-10-02%20Film%20Log%20of%20the%20photo

 

This is Goodpasture admitting she may have made a mistake...  Asking anyone from the Mexico station about Ann G. and the last thing they mention are mistakes.... meticulous and exceedingly capable is what I saw...

63-10-02%20Russ%20104-10413-10426%20LOG%

 

 

Edited by David Josephs

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2 hours ago, David Josephs said:

 

I found this article about that very interaction:  According to the writer describing what Hosty later recalled:, Oswald seemed startled... but never had the chance to answer...

 

David,

 

image.png.2ca12bd8ac5cc9651495b20f67f3d2b9.png

 

This seems to conflict with what Fritz told the WC:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/fritz1.htm

 

"Just about the time I started talking to him, I had just started to question him, I got a phone call from Mr. Shanklin, Gordon Shanklin, agent in charge of the FBI calling for Mr. Bookhout, and I asked Mr. Bookhout to go to pick up the extension.
Mr. BALL. Was Mr. Bookhout there?
Mr. FRITZ. He had just come into the lieutenant's office and Mr. Shanklin asked that Mr. Hosty be in on that questioning, he said he wanted him in there because of Mr. Hosty knowing these people and he had been talking to them and he wanted him in there right then.

So, I got up from my desk and walked over to the lieutenant's office and asked Mr. Bookhout to come in, the reason I asked both of them to come in and Mr. Bookhout is in my office most of every day and works with us in a lot of cases and asked him to come in with Mr. Hosty."

 

Steve Thomas

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Posted (edited)

If you read the BOOKOUT/HOSTY signed interrogation reports... this is the only one with Hosty on it...  maybe he never did "talk" to him again ???
Seems Fritz did all the asking/talking...  just a thought.

Yet Hosty is filled with so much Hoover/FBI BS...

Mr. STERN. And at what time did you know of Oswald's trip to Mexico City and his apparent appearance there at the Russian Embassy? 
Mr. HOSTY. The 25th of October

Mr. STERN. Had you received any information about any other contacts with Russian officials by Lee Harvey Oswald? 
Mr. HOSTY. Not at that time
Mr. STERN. What other information did you have at anytime about that? 
Mr. HOSTY. On November 22, after the assassination of President Kennedy, I was advised that our Washington field office of the FBI had determined that he, Lee Oswald, had been in contact with the Soviet Embassy in Washington, D.C. I learned that after the assassination
Mr. STERN. After the assassination? 
Mr. HOSTY. Right, sir.
 

Uhhh, not so much Mr. Hosty...  you knew a week earlier and lied about it...

58caec6690c0c_63-10-22FBIMexi105-3702-not1980-124-10230-10424-OCTOBER22-INSWoosleygivestheScottOct16infotoFBI.thumb.jpg.8afcc873809856e222958fb017f21378.jpg

Hosty%20and%20Bookout%20at%20the%20inter

 

 

Edited by David Josephs

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Posted (edited)

Here is an amazing notebook on Hosty...  Includes his HSCA testimony and a number of reports only from the Archives...

Thanks JA...

http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/ref/collection/po-arm/id/1199 

Hoover... advised me... my testimony before the WC was excellent... (despite the lying... :cheers  )

image.png.81d25d742a71a24b59a8ee64b480042a.png

Edited by David Josephs

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1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

I was cordially invited by Jim to attend this event, and Mr. Josephs presentation was a highlight. As I said to him that day, if Oswald was in MC he would have been photographed, and we would have been shown that photo. We weren’t. Oswald’s MC sojourn was a key part of the evidence against him. So either the multiple cameras failed, or he wasn’t there. 

Oh, come on ! If there was a picture of Oswald in Mexico City you'd be the first to say it was faked. Conspiracy theorists always do that.

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4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

In accordance with the pleas of people like Card, I will not post this on the--much frequented by FC and DVP thread--headed Bush not in Dallas, he is Dead.

But I just want to add this on the last aspect discussed there:  anyone who in this day and age tries to make the case that Oswald was in MC is simply not aware of the latest research on that subject.

David Josephs made a very good presentation at Gary Aguilar's private seminar on December 15th in SF.  Len Osanic was there.

Len had film of that on his BOR program last night.

As I said many months ago, his work on this subject is going to make a new paradigm in the field.  What he does is called real research.  He is one of the very few guys who is going through the newly declassified files. In some ways, he has gone beyond the Lopez Report.

He and Dan Hardway are honing in on the new model, which I believe to be the correct one.  LHO was not in MC, and a false trail was later set up by Phillips, Ochoa, and Echeverria.  The latter got a big payoff: he became president of Mexico.

Let us never forget what Hoover wrote six weeks after the assassination.  In his personal marginalia he wrote that he would not trust the CIA anymore due to the snow job they gave him on Oswald in MC.  That is one of the single most important discoveries of the ARRB.  

And it has turned out to be true.

Sure. If we brought a mountain of evidence pointing to the color white, and then David Josephs came with a tiny speck of sand pointing to the color black, you would shout that you know it's black !
Whatever evidence there is on the table, you always claim that "your side" (as you call it), knows better, has the better evidence, is more clever, and so on.
The evidence of Oswald being in Mexico City is overwhelming. The evidence of him being anywhere else at that time doesn't exist. But, of course, you'll find someone, somewhere (in this case David Josephs) who will tell you that he knows better and has better evidence, and is better than other people at weighing the evidence and separating facts from fiction. And we are supposed to follow you ? Otherwise, we are called "idiots" or CIA-influenced readers ?
I don't mind people being wrong. But I am really shocked at the level of arrogance and conceit you people are showing !!!!

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