DiEugenio, Cranor, and the mole (my mole) - 3/31/20

[Ron Ecker]

38 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

It's mentioned in Micah Mileto's post above.  The "JFK coffin" was removed from the lighted press side of the plane, but a forklift removed something else from the dark side.  I don't recall the sequence of events.

A trash bin or chemical toilet box?  A pilot witnessed the removal.  Maybe David Lifton will provide details.

You must be talking about Andrews. I thought you meant at Love Field, since the reported witness to the forklift was the pilot of AF2. I recall a helicopter being seen or heard on the dark side at Andrews, and we know from military statements that the casket unloaded on the lighted side was empty.

 

[Kirk Ross]

1 hour ago, David Andrews said:

but a forklift removed something else from the dark side

wasn't it actually a scissor lift?  Not a BIG difference, I know.

[Ron Ecker]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

       I think it was Hale Boggs who replied, "Wasn't there a conspiracy in Lincoln's assassination?"

To which Dulles probably replied, "You're a terrible commissioner! That's a nasty question!"
 

 

[David Andrews]

I'm going by Micah's reminder in his post ("forklift"), and the details of what I read much earlier are not springing to mind. And, of course it was at Andrews, since the coffin was being removed from the plane.

I recall that this was discussed in a past thread. maybe there's searchable keywords.

Edited April 1, 2020 by David Andrews

[Eddy Bainbridge]

I would love to derail this appalling thread onto a more fruitful but related track. Are there two competing schools of thought on alteration? One school claiming body alteration and another claiming other evidence was altered (photos, xrays) I have concluded that the forehead has been cut to remove the site of a bullet entry, I can't make a conclusion about the rear of the head. I suspect it was shattered underneath the scalp so  what it looked like on arrival at Bethesda is not clear to me. Whether it was altered is also unclear. Evidence of alteration or replacement of photo evidence looks virtually certain. Evidence of Xray manipulation highly likely. So my question reworded : What do DSL and JD disagree on? 

[Ron Ecker]

30 minutes ago, Eddy Bainbridge said:

I would love to derail this appalling thread onto a more fruitful but related track. Are there two competing schools of thought on alteration? One school claiming body alteration and another claiming other evidence was altered (photos, xrays) I have concluded that the forehead has been cut to remove the site of a bullet entry, I can't make a conclusion about the rear of the head. I suspect it was shattered underneath the scalp so  what it looked like on arrival at Bethesda is not clear to me. Whether it was altered is also unclear. Evidence of alteration or replacement of photo evidence looks virtually certain. Evidence of Xray manipulation highly likely. So my question reworded : What do DSL and JD disagree on? 

There is evidence that two different brains were used, which would mean that somebody's head was definitely altered. All in all I think there is ample evidence of alteration both of body and autopsy materials. As for what DSL and JD disagree on, according to Jim they disagree on the role of the WC. As for the rest, I don't know.

[Matt Allison]

I can see the plotters now...

"Guys, let's make sure we place shooters where it will be necessary to alter the result of their shots via surgery. I mean, hey, we might have to figure out how to steal the President's coffin off a jet, but we like to live on the edge, AMIRITE?" 

Uh huh, yeah, that's how all this went down...

Edited April 1, 2020 by Matt Allison

[Ron Ecker]

35 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

I can see the plotters now...

"Guys, let's make sure we place shooters where it will be necessary to alter the result of their shots via surgery. I mean, hey, we might have to figure out how to steal the President's coffin off a jet, but we like to live on the edge, AMIRITE?" 

Uh huh, yeah, that's how all this went down...

Wrong. They said, "Guys, let's make sure we place shooters where it will be obvious it was an ambush and we'll blame it on Castro."

Then later, "What? Oswald was taken alive? Let's think fast."

 

 

[Matt Allison]

Hi Ron- don't need an army of snipers to blame it on Castro

And IMO,  the plan was to get Oswald into Mexico, and at the very least give the appearance that he was escaping to Cuba, not kill him in Dallas. If the plan was for him to be caught and killed in Dallas, it would have happened as he exited the TSBD.

But speculation aside, none of the above requires postmortem head surgery. While plots always account for contingencies, no plot with the immense risk that is connected to a US Presidential assassination would ever allow for a situation that would require Lifton's crazy scenario.

[Micah Mileto]

16 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

I can see the plotters now...

"Guys, let's make sure we place shooters where it will be necessary to alter the result of their shots via surgery. I mean, hey, we might have to figure out how to steal the President's coffin off a jet, but we like to live on the edge, AMIRITE?" 

Uh huh, yeah, that's how all this went down...

As David pointed out a million times, the operation could have been bungled by a number of factors, resulting in an undesirable "plan B" of tampering with the body on the starboard side of AF1.

 

David didn't invent the body alteration theory, Dallas medical examiner Earl Rose did, before AF1 even took off. He insisted that the body/casket be attended to at all times to ensure a chain of custody. Why would he say that unless as a safeguard against body tampering, of the suspicion thereof?

Edited April 1, 2020 by Micah Mileto

[Matt Allison]

David Lifton can try to imagine possible scenarios all he wants, that doesn't make his crazy theory any more plausible or connected to reality.

[Matt Allison]

JFK researchers have always needed to be more aware of when they're purposely being led down blind alleys by sensationalistic scenarios, ones that are naturally intriguing due to their extravagant outlandishness. "Look over here at this!"

[Ron Ecker]

There is evidence of body tampering despite however "crazy" the details of Lifton's scenario may be. There is evidence even if Lifton's book had never been written. And as Micah says, such tampering was a Plan B, because of a screw-up that must have involved Oswald, who had to be eliminated asap.

 

 

 

 

[David Andrews]

4 minutes ago, Ron Ecker said:

There is evidence of body tampering despite however "crazy" the details of Lifton's scenario may be. There is evidence even if Lifton's book had never been written. And as Micah says, such tampering was a Plan B, because of a screw-up that must have involved Oswald, who had to be eliminated asap.

 

 

I concur.  There's enough eyewitness testimony to make it probable, despite contradicting scenarios and some Byzantine constructions that fail. 

Bob Dylan agrees, too, and he has a Nobel Prize.  Nyah.

Edited April 1, 2020 by David Andrews

[Sandy Larsen]

41 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

45 minutes ago, Ron Ecker said:

There is evidence of body tampering despite however "crazy" the details of Lifton's scenario may be. There is evidence even if Lifton's book had never been written. And as Micah says, such tampering was a Plan B, because of a screw-up that must have involved Oswald, who had to be eliminated asap.

 

 

I concur.

Ditto.