John Simkin and the Administration of this Forum

[John Simkin]

I mistrust you in that I think you too often tend to take the low road in terms of interpersonal issues, and I think that as a forum administrator you often lack discretion. Here is precisely when my mistrust started:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...amp;#entry82388

Post #11, wherein you responded to allegations that you were a CIA agent (which I believe are false) as follows:

John>"I accept your point about researchers who disagree with your theories spreading rumours about you being CIA. I therefore would not be surprised if people I have clashed with me in the past like Tim Gratz, Tim Carroll, Ashton Gray, Wim Danbaar, Tom Purvis, etc. put it around that I was CIA. As a result of their past history, they would probably not be believed...."

My response came in post #33 in the same thread:

Myra>"The point being that I'll decide for myself what I think of people. It's insulting and suspicious to be told what to think. If John is trying to boost his own credibility by naming names, then he failed with me 'cause I don't appreciate those tactics. They're heavy handed, and frankly kinda catty, in addition to being unprofessional.

Whether it's CIA strategy (which I don't believe) or just bad judgement, it's a negative.

Now, since I've "clashed" with John will I see my name in the next edition of "rogue's gallery"?"

And that's exactly what happened. I ended up in the rogue's gallery because I openly objected to your tactic John (new to me at that point 'cause I was a new member) of attacking people openly by name on your public forum in a heavy-handed attempt to influence readers' opinions.

Since then I've openly objected to your public forum insults of Americans. And most recently I objected to your nasty public digs about Jack's age:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...t=0&start=0

John>"However, recently, Jack White has started several threads that have been completely untrue. It has been argued that he is an old man who gets confused and because of his “great work in the past” he should be allowed to post his nonsense. While I agree we should be more generous in our attitudes towards our senior citizens, there comes a point where you have to say enough is enough."

"Old man...confused...senior citizen." My god, how condescending and callous.

THAT is why I mistrust you John. Because I think you fight dirty.

Instead of sticking with issues and behavior, you make personal attacks.

I would be interested to know if anyone else shares Myra's view. If a significant number do, I will of course resign as an administrator of this forum.

[Karl Kinaski]

JS:

I would be interested to know if anyone else shares Myra's view. If a significant number do, I will of course resign as an administrator of this forum.

KK

No. To me MB's post sounds like an over-reaction.

Edited October 6, 2007 by Karl Kinaski

[James Richards]

I never get involved in petty forum squabbles as they are time consuming, ego driven, counter-productive and ultimately a waste of time.

I have very much enjoyed my time here and found overall that discussions are intelligent and of much educational value. I have also enjoyed many of the interesting people with historical context who occasionally post.

At the end of the day, this is John Simkin's and Andy Walker's party and we are their guests. If your not enjoying the company, leave. It is very simple.

If you have objections or criticisms of the way things are run, then this forum is not for you so make a graceful exit.

I am afraid I do not understand this mentality of public spectacles while bickering and sulking like spoilt children. Move on.

For John Simkin to even ponder the possibility of resigning as forum administrator is ridiculous. He is the heart and soul of this forum and if you don't like it, take your bat and ball and go home.

John, for what ever it is worth, you have my support.

Now, I think it is time we got back to the job of exposing those who were behind what happened on the 22nd of November, 1963.

James

[Pat Speer]

John, you may not be 100% fair with everyone all the time. But that's just to say you're human. You're far more fair than most would be.

I believe your involvement in this forum is its greatest asset. When you post you keep the forum lively and focused on learning. When you're absent for extended periods the forum almost always descends into name-calling and re-hashing old issues. You are the forum's leader. It is the Simkin forum.

[Evan Burton]

For John Simkin to even ponder the possibility of resigning as forum administrator is ridiculous. He is the heart and soul of this forum and if you don't like it, take your bat and ball and go home.

John, for what ever it is worth, you have my support.

Hear, hear.

You have my 100% support.

[Dawn Meredith]

John:

Your imput on this forum is what makes this forum evolve. I think you do treat people fairly. YOu set out rules and let people know if they were not adhered to moderation would result. It's akin to being a parent, often a thankless job, of administering discipline to evoke proper results.

Your contacts, and the information sent to you from this conspiracy world has added greatly to the forum's growth. Your critical comment on issues is spot on. Please do not ever consider stepping down. Take a vacation, or some other kind of down time, but this IS your home. You've built it and should not let anyone drive you to leave.

Dawn

[Bill Miller]

What I find interesting is that the people who are are complaining the most about fairness came from another forum that the word fairness wasn't even in their vocabulary. What would be fair is that those same people shared in the expense and effort of running this forum, but don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

Maybe its a little off-point, but something that may apply here in part can be said in the following words that I heard JFK use when I was just a young kid and they went like this ..........

"Defeat is an orphan, but victory has 1000 fathers."

It seems that when people are hearing what they like, then those saying it are the best of the best - and when they those same people don't like what they hear, then those people saying what they didn't like are not worth their salt. I think Antti said it as good as anyone when he posted in another thread that those who don't care for the rules and guidelines of this forum can go elsewhere. Another way of putting is to 'not let the door hit you in the tail on the way out!'

And to John who I think has put up with more idiocy than I would have cared to endure ... Freedom of speech doesn't mean that anyone can say whatever someone damned well wishes to anytime they like. The rules about this were made clear and the reasons for their need should have been understood by anyone who has an ounce of common sense. Maybe a lesson that most of us have learned from our parents should apply here and that is when someone comes into your house - they don't necessarily have to like you or your rules - but they have to show enough respect to abide by them or get the hell out. There have been a many of parents who have had to say those same words to the children that they love dearly because it is a lesson that must be learned so to exist in this world, so saying it to adults who are merely visitors to a web site should be no exception.

Bill Miller

Edited October 6, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Larry Hancock]

What Dawn said....

Plus, John was clear from the beginning that this forum was to be about education, which implies

reasoned give and take and the constant ability to question all data without becoming

emotionally involved. Which of course is never easy, especially for all of us who are serious

about these cases. But those are John's ground rules and they were clearly and fairly stated.

-- Larry

John:

Your imput on this forum is what makes this forum evolve. I think you do treat people fairly. YOu set out rules and let people know if they were not adhered to moderation would result. It's akin to being a parent, often a thankless job, of administering discipline to evoke proper results.

Your contacts, and the information sent to you from this conspiracy world has added greatly to the forum's growth. Your critical comment on issues is spot on. Please do not ever consider stepping down. Take a vacation, or some other kind of down time, but this IS your home. You've built it and should not let anyone drive you to leave.

Dawn

[Mark Knight]

My reply here is handcuffed by my meager ability to express my thoughts, but I wish to go on record here and now echoing the sentiments of those who have much more eloquently expressed their thoughts in the posts above. I came here seeking truth, and I have managed to find an abundant supply here...as well as a range of opinions as varied as the colors of the rainbow. While "facts is facts," it is the mix of opinions based upon those facts that add flavor to the verbal soup here.

And John Simkin has performed well in stirring the soup, and keeping the mixture from scorching or burning over the flames that are the emotions of the folks who post here. To imagine this forum without John Simkin...well, it's simply unthinkable [and particularly so for one with as feeble a mind as mine]. While conceding that no human being is perfect, I must opine to the world that John Simkin has done an excellent job in his role as administrator of this forum, and I sincerely wish that he will continue in that role for a long time to come...

...unless we discover the undisputable truth about November 22, 1963, beyond any reasonable [or unreasonable] doubt; at which point this forum will have served its function, and its reason to exist will have ceased.

[Francesca Akhtar]

I never get involved in petty forum squabbles as they are time consuming, ego driven, counter-productive and ultimately a waste of time.

I have very much enjoyed my time here and found overall that discussions are intelligent and of much educational value. I have also enjoyed many of the interesting people with historical context who occasionally post.

At the end of the day, this is John Simkin's and Andy Walker's party and we are their guests. If your not enjoying the company, leave. It is very simple.

If you have objections or criticisms of the way things are run, then this forum is not for you so make a graceful exit.

I am afraid I do not understand this mentality of public spectacles while bickering and sulking like spoilt children. Move on.

For John Simkin to even ponder the possibility of resigning as forum administrator is ridiculous. He is the heart and soul of this forum and if you don't like it, take your bat and ball and go home.

John, for what ever it is worth, you have my support.

Now, I think it is time we got back to the job of exposing those who were behind what happened on the 22nd of November, 1963.

James

James, I have to agreee with you. I really hate all the constant fighting and bickering that goes on in the forums and I try not to get involved either as it just doesn't resolve anything. It really does get like the playground in here sometimes and having had enough past experience of that myself in working with children I would have hoped not to find the same on a forum populated by adults.

The thing I used to like about this forum is that is was different from some of the other JFK ones in that there was not this constant mudslinging. Now unfortunately it seems to have gone that way.

I have never understood why people cannot behave respecfully towards each other. This is not directed at anyone in particular but the forum as a whole. I'm not saying everyone should agree with each other and be the best of friends, but there is a difference between reasoned debate and petty, personal attacks.

It seems to me that in the end it is all about people's 'EGOS' and how they want to be the person in the right, because they have done so much research or been in the case longer or have a higher profile etc etc. I find this very sad because I think we can all learn from each other even from those we disagree with or personally don't get on with.

In the JFK 'community' we could all accomplish so much more if we focused on working together and getting past the petty issues and bickering. No one person has the monopoly on truth.

Really you have to ask yourself in the end, is that what really matters? Or is finding the truth more important?

I think John is in a difficult position because he will no doubt be criticised whatever he does. He can't please everyone but I think he has attempted to resolve things in the fairest way possible. He could have gone ahead and done exactly what he wanted without consulting anyone else as it is as James rightly says HIS forum.

Instead he has taken the time to consult everyone and try to reach a solution that is fair for everybody.

I would be very sad if this forum closed down and I do hope it can go back to how it used to be.

[Lee Forman]

100% support.

It's a great site, and some folks make progress and contribute toward moving in a forward and positive direction. Personally, I tend to seek to avoid the noise. It's been unfortunate that the quality of information and level of interest in productive activities has waned over tha past year - with some very discouraging threads, unintelligent posts, flooding, redundant thread topics, etc. Efforts should be made to stem this trend and turn it back around. I would be personally interested in again inviting select candidates to join [as I have done with a very low level success rate in the past].

There is still a lot that can be done - a lot of digging, progress to be made, and work effort. It would be great if we could see some community efforts and some teamwork on projects as opposed to bickering about nonsense.

Keep up the great work Andy and John and thanks very much for providing the opportunity.

- lee

[William Kelly]

John,

When you started his forum you went out and recruited many of those reserchers who now contribute to this site.

At first I was reluctant, but being part of the JFKResearch team in its heyday I knew the possibilities of the internet were not really tapped, or tapped correctly.

While that still has not yet happened, the Simkin Forum is by far the best at what it does, especially regarding JFK, but also about other education and learning issues.

As for contrarians, I don't understand what all the fuss is about. They are the guests at your house and should behave like invited guests.

And for questioning your abilities to administrate - you need thicker skin - as I never had a teacher or professor who was so sensitive to student's opinions.

Just keep doing what you are doing, and in a few years we won't need to debate the JFK assassination as we will all know the truth.

Bill Kelly

[Ron Ecker]

I support John 100%. And if he says any bad things about Americans (as alleged), it's because they deserve it.

[Myra Bronstein]

Well I've been percolating on this a lot and even before reading comments today was extremely unhappy with my handling of this situation and my lashing out at John. So I apologize to everyone, particularly John, for being so childish and disruptive. I try to be logical even when upset, and the Jack White situation is upsetting to me because he is extremely special as a person and as a researcher. but I don't think I managed to be completely logical recently. Of course that's no excuse. And I am in no way retracting my words of support for Jack; I'm only stating that I'm disgusted with my own rhetoric and finger pointing.

To those who mentioned that people are free to start their own groups, I totally agree and have been thinking in those terms for some time. And I am not hinting that I'm flouncing off to start my own forum. I'm staying. But for some time I've wanted to get more strategic and active as a group. And I would like for this group to span all the major JFK forums and ideally include John, Rich, Debra... (which would be quite a trick at this point 'cause most everyone's pissed at me). But still, I have a dream...

I don't want to hijack this thread though.

So I'm creating a new one to make a proposal.

Here is the new thread:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11177

Edited October 6, 2007 by Myra Bronstein

[Guest Gary Loughran]

I would be interested to know if anyone else shares Myra's view. If a significant number do, I will of course resign as an administrator of this forum.

You won't resign as administrator of this forum. Sure what would you do with all that spare time? You know a significant number of people don't share Myra's view of you or your administration of the forum.

James Richards has summed up my and, I believe, the vast majority [silent] of forum members, views; in his usual understated yet considered manner.

Whilst I use this forum as a student, and have never pretended to have the research backgrounds of yourself, James, Peter, WK and many many others. I am thankfuk to you for gathering so diligently their expertise and thanks to them for their sharing of this knowledge. The modern IT idiom 'knowledge sharing is power' is truly applicable here. I still try to learn something new every day and the education forum has certainly facilitated this objective of mine. I have found every single researcher I have approached privately to exhibit an wavering willingness to pass on their knowledge without exception.

Without your hard work, I would never have had the opportunity to communicate with such a body of knowledge and receive so freely.

Myra just needs to apply a little more consideration in some posts, but sure we all need to do that at times!! A lesson in negotiating and diplomacy I learned a long time ago - "Sometimes being right isn't always the right thing to be."

How do you reckon Bill Shankley would have dealt with this situation (answer that and that's most likely all you need - John)