Thomas H. Purvis Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hudson.htm Mr. HUDSON - I happened to be looking right at him when that bullet hit him - the second shot. Mr. LIEBELER - That was when the bullet hit him in the head; is that correct? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it looked like it ht him somewhere along about a little bit behind the ear and a little bit above the ear. Mr. LIEBELER - On the right-hand side or the left-hand side? Mr. LIEBELER - How many shots did you here altogether? Mr. HUDSON - Three. Mr. LIEBELER - Three shots? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Are you sure about that? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - You say that it was the second shot that hit him in the head; is that right? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I do believe that - I know it was Mr. LIEBELER - You saw him hit in the head, there wasn't any question in your mind about that, was there? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - And after you saw him hit in the head, did you here another shot? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm Mr. ALTGENS - Because I didn't see who fired it. After the Presidential car moved a little past me, I took another picture--now, just let me back up here--I was prepared to make a picture at the very instant the President was shot. I had refocused to 15 feet because I wanted a good closeup of the President and Mrs. Kennedy, and that's why I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera. Mr. LIEBELER - You also testified that you were standing perhaps no more than 15 feet away when the President was hit in the head and that you are absolutely certain that there were no shots fired after the President was hit in the head? Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir; that's correct. Mr. LIEBELER - And that it was 15 feet away at the time the third shot was fired. Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir. Mr. ALTGENS - Well, I was about 15 feet from it. Mr. LIEBELER - But it was almost directly in front of you as it went down the street; isn't that right? Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - The important thing is--it's not all that important as to how far you were away from the car at the time you took the picture--the thing that I want to establish is that you are absolutely sure that you took Exhibit No. 203 at about the time the first shot was fired and that you are quite sure also in your own mind, that there were no shots fired after you saw the President hit in the head. Mr. ALTGENS - That is correct; in both cases. Mr. LIEBELER - So, it is clear from your testimony that the third shot--the last shot, rather--hit the President? Mr. ALTGENS - Well, off and on we have been referring to the third shot and the fourth shot; but actually, it was the last shot, the shot did strike the President and there was no other sound like a shot that was made after that. Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck, it caused him to move a bit forward. He seemed as if at the time----well, he was in a position-- sort of immobile. He wasn't upright. He was at an angle but when it hit him, it seemed to have just lodged--it seemed as if he were hung up on a seat button or something like that. It knocked him just enough forward that he came right on down. There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfk.org/Oral_Histories/Oral_His…st.asp?Letter=s Malcolm Summers Well, then the car kept coming, and then the second shot rang out. And then the third was just about where I was at, rang out ------------------------------------------------------------ From Nellie Connally’s book and her handwritten notes which were written 10 days after the assassination. “I reached there and pulled him to me & tried to get us both down in the car. Then came a third shot. With John in my arms & still trying to stay down I did not see the third shot hit. But I felt something falling all over me.” --------------------------- http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm Mr. CONNALLY: I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired. I only heard two shots. I did not hear the shot that hit me. I wasn’t conscious of it. I am sure I heard it, but I was not conscious of it at all. I heard another shot. I heard it hit. It hit with a very pronounced impact, just [slap of hands] almost like that. Almost that loud a sound; it made a very, very strong sound. Immediately, I could see blood and brain tissue all over the interior of the car and all over our clothes. We were both covered with brain tissue, and there were pieces of brain tissue as big as your little finger. Mrs. CONNALLY. No; I heard three shots, I had three reactions, three separate reactions. The first shot, then I looked and saw the President, the second shot, John, and third, all this matter all over us Mr. DEVINE. And then after you knew that he was hit, and you pulled him over in your lap, you then heard the third shot? Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes. ---------------------------------- Now! For the $24.00 question? If JFK was struck in the head at frame Z313 of the Zapruder film, at a point which has clearly been identified by multiple witnesses as Shot#2, and, the THIRD/LAST/FINAL shot was fired some 30-feet farther down Elm St. directly in front of James Altgens, and close to Malcolm Summers, and, James Altgens personally observed the impact of this shot to the head of JFK, and Nellie Connally personally felt the cerebral tissue of someone in the back seat being blown all over them, and, assuming that Jackie had no brain damage caused by impact of a bullet. Exactly who’s head did that third shot also strike, in that it too blew cerebral tissue out towards James Altgens as well as blowing it all over Nellie Connally and JBC? ________________________________________________________________________________ _______________________ Failure to understand the evidence has no bearing on the validity of that evidence. As a general rule, it merely means that one does not understand the evidence. Tom Purvis ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 Should have also added: There Is No Magic however! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 Should have also added:There Is No Magic however! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shaneyf2.htm Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is an album that I prepared of black and white photographs made of the majority of the frames in the Zapruder film---- Mr. SPECTER. Starting with what frame number? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Starting with frame 171, going through frame 334. Mr. SPECTER. And how was the ending point of that frame sequence, being No. 334, fixed? Mr. SHANEYFELT. It was fixed as several frames past the shot that hit the President in the head. Frame 313 is the frame showing the shot to the President's head, and it ends at 334. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z310.jpg http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg -------------------------- http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car. Mr. ALTGENS - Because I didn't see who fired it. After the Presidential car moved a little past me, I took another picture--now, just let me back up here--I was prepared to make a picture at the very instant the President was shot. I had refocused to 15 feet because I wanted a good closeup of the President and Mrs. Kennedy, and that's why I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera. -------------------------------------------- http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z334.jpg Sort of like another of those "Where's Waldo"? Or, better yet, Where's Altgens? http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z339.jpg http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z340.jpg It "ain't" Waldo, but he certainly has a camera to his eye as well as being only slightly in excess of 15 feet from JFK. http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z348.jpg And, it would certainly appear that "Waldo"/aka James Altgens is standing just a few feet from that second yellow painted section of the concrete curb. http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0487a.htm Most curious! That the WC decided that James Altgens was standing back up Elm St. so far that he would have in fact been between the first yellow curb mark (Moorman/Hill location) and the TSDB, when in fact, James Altgens was standing at approximately where the top of the first "t" in "ELM STREET" is located, which is almost directlly across from where the concrete steps leading down from the stockade fence to Elm St. is located. As well as the fact that the Zapruder photo of James Altgens standing along Elm St. had been published in newspapers across the US only a couple of days after the assassination. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Now! Would everyone who "fell" for this little WC subterfuge please raise their hand. Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0449a.htm http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hudson.htm Mr. HUDSON - Well, I was right along - you see, the steps come down the steps for a way and then there is a broad place, oh, I'll say a little wider than this table here on the steps and then some steps and I was standing on this - that would be somewhere around along about there. Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there. The yellow curb marks slightly enhanced! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 Should have also added:There Is No Magic however! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shaneyf2.htm Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is an album that I prepared of black and white photographs made of the majority of the frames in the Zapruder film---- Mr. SPECTER. Starting with what frame number? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Starting with frame 171, going through frame 334. Mr. SPECTER. And how was the ending point of that frame sequence, being No. 334, fixed? Mr. SHANEYFELT. It was fixed as several frames past the shot that hit the President in the head. Frame 313 is the frame showing the shot to the President's head, and it ends at 334. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z310.jpg http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg -------------------------- http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car. Mr. ALTGENS - Because I didn't see who fired it. After the Presidential car moved a little past me, I took another picture--now, just let me back up here--I was prepared to make a picture at the very instant the President was shot. I had refocused to 15 feet because I wanted a good closeup of the President and Mrs. Kennedy, and that's why I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera. -------------------------------------------- http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z334.jpg Sort of like another of those "Where's Waldo"? Or, better yet, Where's Altgens? http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z339.jpg http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z340.jpg It "ain't" Waldo, but he certainly has a camera to his eye as well as being only slightly in excess of 15 feet from JFK. http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z348.jpg And, it would certainly appear that "Waldo"/aka James Altgens is standing just a few feet from that second yellow painted section of the concrete curb. http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0487a.htm Most curious! That the WC decided that James Altgens was standing back up Elm St. so far that he would have in fact been between the first yellow curb mark (Moorman/Hill location) and the TSDB, when in fact, James Altgens was standing at approximately where the top of the first "t" in "ELM STREET" is located, which is almost directlly across from where the concrete steps leading down from the stockade fence to Elm St. is located. As well as the fact that the Zapruder photo of James Altgens standing along Elm St. had been published in newspapers across the US only a couple of days after the assassination. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Now! Would everyone who "fell" for this little WC subterfuge please raise their hand. Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0449a.htm http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hudson.htm Mr. HUDSON - Well, I was right along - you see, the steps come down the steps for a way and then there is a broad place, oh, I'll say a little wider than this table here on the steps and then some steps and I was standing on this - that would be somewhere around along about there. Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there. The yellow curb marks slightly enhanced! http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0449a.htm Had Mr. West not utilized his previously established survey data (that horizontal and veritical control which was established during the US Secret Service work), then we would have no way of knowing exactly where Station 4+95 of the SS work is located, in regards to the WC Survey Plat. And, the WC most assuredly did not intend for Mr. West to do so, as this is the primary reason for the establishment of "Position "A"". In that the WC apparently intended for Mr. West to take and establish all measurements from this new location. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mr. SHANEYFELT. That was actually established later. But the first one to be actually located was 161. And we went back later and positioned point A. Mr. SPECTER. Well, let's start with the position which is the most easterly point on Elm Street, which I believe would be position A, would it not? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes. Mr. DULLES. Where is position A on that chart? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Position A is here. Mr. McCLOY. That is before you get to the tree? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; he isn't under the tree yet. Mr. SPECTER. And what occupant, if any, in the car is position A sighted on for measuring purposes? Mr. SHANEYFELT. All of the photographs made through the rifle sight that are shown on the exhibit in the lower left-hand corner were sighted on the spot that was simulating the spot where the President was wounded in the neck. The chalk mark is on the back of the coat. Mr. SPECTER. When you say that position A is the first position at which President Kennedy was in view of the marksman from the southeast window on the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, you mean by that the first position where the marksman saw the rear of the President's stand-in? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. Mr. SPECTER. So that would be the first position where the marksman could focus in on the circled point where the point of entry on the President was marked? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. Mr. SPECTER. And what position is station C? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Station C is on a line drawn along the west curb line of Houston Street in a direct line, and station C is at a point along that line that is in line with where the car would have turned coming around that corner. It is on a line which is an extension of the west curb line of Houston Street. Mr. SPECTER. And what is the distance between that point on the President and station C? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is 44 feet from station C--91.6 feet to the rifle in the window from the actual chalk mark on the coat. All measurements were made to the chalk mark on the coat. Mr. SPECTER. Does the picture designated "photograph through rifle scope" depict the actual view of the rifleman through the actual Mannlicher-Carcano weapon? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. At point A. Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes. At the position that has been designated as frame 161, and appears on Commission Exhibit No. 888, the distance from the wound mark on a stand-in for President Kennedy to station C was 94.7 feet. Mr. SPECTER. Would you now read the same statistical data from frame 166 on Exhibit No. 889, please? Mr. SHANEYFELT. From the chalk mark on the back of the stand-in for President Kennedy, to station C is 95.6 feet, the distance to rifle in window, 138.2 feet, the angle to rifle in window based on the horizontal, is minus 26 52'. Distance to overpass is 391.5 feet. The angle to the overpass is 0 7'. Mr. SPECTER. Will you read the statistical data from frame 185? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; from the point of the chalk on the back of the stand-in for the President at position 185 to station C is 114.8 feet, the distance to rifle on window is 154.9 And on, and on, we go. Might not it have been considerably easier to have utilized the actual survey stationing which Mr. West established and actually surveyed in as well as placed onto the large WC survey plat????? After all, Z313 was fully established in Mr. West additional "Chart"/aka CE884, at survey stationing 4+65.3. http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm Mr. SHANEYFELT. The dimensions from the surveyor on frame 313 of the distance from the wound mark on the President's stand-in to station C is 230.8 feet. Distance to the rifle in the window is 265.3 feet. The angle to rifle in window is 15b021' and this is based on the horizontal. Distance to the overpass is 260.6 feet, the angle to the overpass is 1b028'. -------------------------------------------------------------------- HMMMMMM? Exactly why am I reminded of the old "Shell/Pea" game?????? Kind of reminds me of the "Whose Stretcher is This" game as well! Now! Would everyone who "fell" for the "Point/Position A" and "Station C" shell game, please raise their hand! Us's ole country boys have to stick with the simple survey stationing if we want to actually figure anything out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David G. Healy Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 (edited) Should have also added:There Is No Magic however! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shaneyf2.htm Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is an album that I prepared of black and white photographs made of the majority of the frames in the Zapruder film---- Mr. SPECTER. Starting with what frame number? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Starting with frame 171, going through frame 334. Mr. SPECTER. And how was the ending point of that frame sequence, being No. 334, fixed? Mr. SHANEYFELT. It was fixed as several frames past the shot that hit the President in the head. Frame 313 is the frame showing the shot to the President's head, and it ends at 334. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z310.jpg http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg -------------------------- http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car. Mr. ALTGENS - Because I didn't see who fired it. After the Presidential car moved a little past me, I took another picture--now, just let me back up here--I was prepared to make a picture at the very instant the President was shot. I had refocused to 15 feet because I wanted a good closeup of the President and Mrs. Kennedy, and that's why I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera. -------------------------------------------- http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z334.jpg Sort of like another of those "Where's Waldo"? Or, better yet, Where's Altgens? http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z339.jpg http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z340.jpg It "ain't" Waldo, but he certainly has a camera to his eye as well as being only slightly in excess of 15 feet from JFK. http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z348.jpg And, it would certainly appear that "Waldo"/aka James Altgens is standing just a few feet from that second yellow painted section of the concrete curb. http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0487a.htm Most curious! That the WC decided that James Altgens was standing back up Elm St. so far that he would have in fact been between the first yellow curb mark (Moorman/Hill location) and the TSDB, when in fact, James Altgens was standing at approximately where the top of the first "t" in "ELM STREET" is located, which is almost directlly across from where the concrete steps leading down from the stockade fence to Elm St. is located. As well as the fact that the Zapruder photo of James Altgens standing along Elm St. had been published in newspapers across the US only a couple of days after the assassination. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Now! Would everyone who "fell" for this little WC subterfuge please raise their hand. Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0449a.htm http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hudson.htm Mr. HUDSON - Well, I was right along - you see, the steps come down the steps for a way and then there is a broad place, oh, I'll say a little wider than this table here on the steps and then some steps and I was standing on this - that would be somewhere around along about there. Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there. The yellow curb marks slightly enhanced! http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0449a.htm Had Mr. West not utilized his previously established survey data (that horizontal and veritical control which was established during the US Secret Service work), then we would have no way of knowing exactly where Station 4+95 of the SS work is located, in regards to the WC Survey Plat. And, the WC most assuredly did not intend for Mr. West to do so, as this is the primary reason for the establishment of "Position "A"". In that the WC apparently intended for Mr. West to take and establish all measurements from this new location. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mr. SHANEYFELT. That was actually established later. But the first one to be actually located was 161. And we went back later and positioned point A. Mr. SPECTER. Well, let's start with the position which is the most easterly point on Elm Street, which I believe would be position A, would it not? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes. Mr. DULLES. Where is position A on that chart? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Position A is here. Mr. McCLOY. That is before you get to the tree? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; he isn't under the tree yet. Mr. SPECTER. And what occupant, if any, in the car is position A sighted on for measuring purposes? Mr. SHANEYFELT. All of the photographs made through the rifle sight that are shown on the exhibit in the lower left-hand corner were sighted on the spot that was simulating the spot where the President was wounded in the neck. The chalk mark is on the back of the coat. Mr. SPECTER. When you say that position A is the first position at which President Kennedy was in view of the marksman from the southeast window on the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, you mean by that the first position where the marksman saw the rear of the President's stand-in? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. Mr. SPECTER. So that would be the first position where the marksman could focus in on the circled point where the point of entry on the President was marked? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. Mr. SPECTER. And what position is station C? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Station C is on a line drawn along the west curb line of Houston Street in a direct line, and station C is at a point along that line that is in line with where the car would have turned coming around that corner. It is on a line which is an extension of the west curb line of Houston Street. Mr. SPECTER. And what is the distance between that point on the President and station C? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is 44 feet from station C--91.6 feet to the rifle in the window from the actual chalk mark on the coat. All measurements were made to the chalk mark on the coat. Mr. SPECTER. Does the picture designated "photograph through rifle scope" depict the actual view of the rifleman through the actual Mannlicher-Carcano weapon? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. At point A. Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes. At the position that has been designated as frame 161, and appears on Commission Exhibit No. 888, the distance from the wound mark on a stand-in for President Kennedy to station C was 94.7 feet. Mr. SPECTER. Would you now read the same statistical data from frame 166 on Exhibit No. 889, please? Mr. SHANEYFELT. From the chalk mark on the back of the stand-in for President Kennedy, to station C is 95.6 feet, the distance to rifle in window, 138.2 feet, the angle to rifle in window based on the horizontal, is minus 26 52'. Distance to overpass is 391.5 feet. The angle to the overpass is 0 7'. Mr. SPECTER. Will you read the statistical data from frame 185? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; from the point of the chalk on the back of the stand-in for the President at position 185 to station C is 114.8 feet, the distance to rifle on window is 154.9 And on, and on, we go. Might not it have been considerably easier to have utilized the actual survey stationing which Mr. West established and actually surveyed in as well as placed onto the large WC survey plat????? After all, Z313 was fully established in Mr. West additional "Chart"/aka CE884, at survey stationing 4+65.3. http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm Mr. SHANEYFELT. The dimensions from the surveyor on frame 313 of the distance from the wound mark on the President's stand-in to station C is 230.8 feet. Distance to the rifle in the window is 265.3 feet. The angle to rifle in window is 15b021' and this is based on the horizontal. Distance to the overpass is 260.6 feet, the angle to the overpass is 1b028'. -------------------------------------------------------------------- HMMMMMM? Exactly why am I reminded of the old "Shell/Pea" game?????? Kind of reminds me of the "Whose Stretcher is This" game as well! Now! Would everyone who "fell" for the "Point/Position A" and "Station C" shell game, please raise their hand! Us's ole country boys have to stick with the simple survey stationing if we want to actually figure anything out. Once again, nice compilation, Tom... seems to me the SS reenactment had a shot down by those stairs (further west on Elm beyond the Zapruder frame 313 area, correct?)? Also, has the City of Dallas ever commented as to WHY" those "yellow stripes" on the south side Elm Street curbing? Where the "yellow stripes" in-fact, on the northside Elm Street curbing as well? Hang around... Thanks, David Healy Edited March 12, 2008 by David G. Healy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 Should have also added:There Is No Magic however! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shaneyf2.htm Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is an album that I prepared of black and white photographs made of the majority of the frames in the Zapruder film---- Mr. SPECTER. Starting with what frame number? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Starting with frame 171, going through frame 334. Mr. SPECTER. And how was the ending point of that frame sequence, being No. 334, fixed? Mr. SHANEYFELT. It was fixed as several frames past the shot that hit the President in the head. Frame 313 is the frame showing the shot to the President's head, and it ends at 334. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z310.jpg http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg -------------------------- http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car. Mr. ALTGENS - Because I didn't see who fired it. After the Presidential car moved a little past me, I took another picture--now, just let me back up here--I was prepared to make a picture at the very instant the President was shot. I had refocused to 15 feet because I wanted a good closeup of the President and Mrs. Kennedy, and that's why I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera. -------------------------------------------- http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z334.jpg Sort of like another of those "Where's Waldo"? Or, better yet, Where's Altgens? http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z339.jpg http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z340.jpg It "ain't" Waldo, but he certainly has a camera to his eye as well as being only slightly in excess of 15 feet from JFK. http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z348.jpg And, it would certainly appear that "Waldo"/aka James Altgens is standing just a few feet from that second yellow painted section of the concrete curb. http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0487a.htm Most curious! That the WC decided that James Altgens was standing back up Elm St. so far that he would have in fact been between the first yellow curb mark (Moorman/Hill location) and the TSDB, when in fact, James Altgens was standing at approximately where the top of the first "t" in "ELM STREET" is located, which is almost directlly across from where the concrete steps leading down from the stockade fence to Elm St. is located. As well as the fact that the Zapruder photo of James Altgens standing along Elm St. had been published in newspapers across the US only a couple of days after the assassination. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Now! Would everyone who "fell" for this little WC subterfuge please raise their hand. Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear! http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0449a.htm http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hudson.htm Mr. HUDSON - Well, I was right along - you see, the steps come down the steps for a way and then there is a broad place, oh, I'll say a little wider than this table here on the steps and then some steps and I was standing on this - that would be somewhere around along about there. Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there. The yellow curb marks slightly enhanced! http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0449a.htm Had Mr. West not utilized his previously established survey data (that horizontal and veritical control which was established during the US Secret Service work), then we would have no way of knowing exactly where Station 4+95 of the SS work is located, in regards to the WC Survey Plat. And, the WC most assuredly did not intend for Mr. West to do so, as this is the primary reason for the establishment of "Position "A"". In that the WC apparently intended for Mr. West to take and establish all measurements from this new location. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mr. SHANEYFELT. That was actually established later. But the first one to be actually located was 161. And we went back later and positioned point A. Mr. SPECTER. Well, let's start with the position which is the most easterly point on Elm Street, which I believe would be position A, would it not? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes. Mr. DULLES. Where is position A on that chart? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Position A is here. Mr. McCLOY. That is before you get to the tree? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; he isn't under the tree yet. Mr. SPECTER. And what occupant, if any, in the car is position A sighted on for measuring purposes? Mr. SHANEYFELT. All of the photographs made through the rifle sight that are shown on the exhibit in the lower left-hand corner were sighted on the spot that was simulating the spot where the President was wounded in the neck. The chalk mark is on the back of the coat. Mr. SPECTER. When you say that position A is the first position at which President Kennedy was in view of the marksman from the southeast window on the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, you mean by that the first position where the marksman saw the rear of the President's stand-in? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. Mr. SPECTER. So that would be the first position where the marksman could focus in on the circled point where the point of entry on the President was marked? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. Mr. SPECTER. And what position is station C? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Station C is on a line drawn along the west curb line of Houston Street in a direct line, and station C is at a point along that line that is in line with where the car would have turned coming around that corner. It is on a line which is an extension of the west curb line of Houston Street. Mr. SPECTER. And what is the distance between that point on the President and station C? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is 44 feet from station C--91.6 feet to the rifle in the window from the actual chalk mark on the coat. All measurements were made to the chalk mark on the coat. Mr. SPECTER. Does the picture designated "photograph through rifle scope" depict the actual view of the rifleman through the actual Mannlicher-Carcano weapon? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. At point A. Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes. At the position that has been designated as frame 161, and appears on Commission Exhibit No. 888, the distance from the wound mark on a stand-in for President Kennedy to station C was 94.7 feet. Mr. SPECTER. Would you now read the same statistical data from frame 166 on Exhibit No. 889, please? Mr. SHANEYFELT. From the chalk mark on the back of the stand-in for President Kennedy, to station C is 95.6 feet, the distance to rifle in window, 138.2 feet, the angle to rifle in window based on the horizontal, is minus 26 52'. Distance to overpass is 391.5 feet. The angle to the overpass is 0 7'. Mr. SPECTER. Will you read the statistical data from frame 185? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; from the point of the chalk on the back of the stand-in for the President at position 185 to station C is 114.8 feet, the distance to rifle on window is 154.9 And on, and on, we go. Might not it have been considerably easier to have utilized the actual survey stationing which Mr. West established and actually surveyed in as well as placed onto the large WC survey plat????? After all, Z313 was fully established in Mr. West additional "Chart"/aka CE884, at survey stationing 4+65.3. http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm Mr. SHANEYFELT. The dimensions from the surveyor on frame 313 of the distance from the wound mark on the President's stand-in to station C is 230.8 feet. Distance to the rifle in the window is 265.3 feet. The angle to rifle in window is 15b021' and this is based on the horizontal. Distance to the overpass is 260.6 feet, the angle to the overpass is 1b028'. -------------------------------------------------------------------- HMMMMMM? Exactly why am I reminded of the old "Shell/Pea" game?????? Kind of reminds me of the "Whose Stretcher is This" game as well! Now! Would everyone who "fell" for the "Point/Position A" and "Station C" shell game, please raise their hand! Us's ole country boys have to stick with the simple survey stationing if we want to actually figure anything out. Once again, nice compilation... seems to me the SS reenactment had a shot down by those stairs (further west on Elm beyond where the Zapruder frame313 area, correct? Also, has the City of Dallas ever commented as to WHY" those "yellow stripes" on the south side Elm Street curbing? Where the "yellow stripes" in-fact, on the northside Elm Street curbing as well? Thanks, David Healy Once again, nice compilation... seems to me the SS reenactment had a shot down by those stairs (further west on Elm beyond where the Zapruder frame313 area, correct? By far better answers than one is likely to get from Ken Rahn and/or John McAdams. CORRECT! And, as I have previously indicated, the FBI also left the "Station 4+95"/aka Third Shot impact in it's exact same location during their 2/7/64 re-work. It was the Z313 impact location which they attempted to "fudge" back up Elm St. (for an excellent reason) However, the YELLOW STRIPE's tell all. Also, has the City of Dallas ever commented as to WHY" those "yellow stripes" on the south side Elm Street curbing? Where the "yellow stripes" in-fact, on the northside Elm Street curbing as well? We have "discussed" the Yellow Stripes multiple times. And, although I fully recognize and accept that these stripes may have been painted onto Elm St. merely for traffic (hazard) control, I am also aware that with their evenly spaced distances, they make excellent reference points as well as "range markers" for anyone who may be in the "shooting business". Bang!------5.8/5.9 seconds later--------Bang-------approximately 1.8/1.9 seconds later (snap shot)--Bang! Z204/210--------------------------------Z313-------------------------------------------------Altgens Impact Or, if one truely wishes to believe in "Fairy Tales": http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...eport_0068a.htm THE SHOT THAT MISSED P.S. Would everyone who believes/believed this, please raise their hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 For the uninformed! It would be somewhat negligent to not point out that the WC attempted to get away without even calling James Altgens to testify, and did so only after an newspaper article which brought out that a skilled observer/newsman such as Altgens had not been called. Then, and only then was Altgens called to testify, and for all practical purposes, the WC was complete and the actual "DRAFT" of their Report had been turned in. Therefore, those of the WC who were not "in the in" crowd, never heard or saw this testimonies. One other, who apparantly did not have the "stroke" to let it be known that he was not called to testify, was Malcolm Summers. Fortunately, we have the TSDB Museum to thank for this: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.jfk.org/Oral_Histories/Oral_His…st.asp?Letter=s Malcolm Summers Well, then the car kept coming, and then the second shot rang out. And then the third was just about where I was at, rang out ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z350.jpg Malcolm Summers & James Altgens ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And, although one may not have all of the "Rest of the Story", MOST of the story is now within the public domain! P.S. Anyone who can not figure out why Malcolm Summers was not called to testify before the WC, please raise their hand. And then the third was just about where I was at, rang out… I heard Connally say, “They’re going to kill us all!” And then, I heard Jackie Kennedy scream out, “Oh, God! No, no, no!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) As one moves along, hopefully for all, towards the end, perhaps there are other things which one should know that "Reno already knows". Edited March 14, 2008 by Thomas H. Purvis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted March 15, 2008 Author Share Posted March 15, 2008 The "Obliterated" skull! For those who believe that two hits to the skull by a WCC 6.5mm Carcano bullet would "obliterate" the skull, perhaps they should study this a little closer. That portion of the skull marked "A" is the portion which was blown off by the cowlick entry of the Z313 impact, and subsequently "blown" over onto the right side of JFK's head and can be clearly seen in the Z-film. Those who search for spooks and other such mytholigical beings, also utilize the Z-film after the Z313 shot to demonstrate their frequently asinine theories, as when JFK arrived at parkland, the back/occipital area of the skull was also blown out. Which is of course also correct. The primary problem being, these persons, ALL, apparantly believed the WC in their claim that Z313 was the LAST SHOT fired. Now----what kind of idiot would believe the WC?? The occipital damage to the skull, (that portion of the X-ray marked with the "B") was not blown out until impact by the third/last/final shot, which shot impacted in the rear of the skull at the edge of the hairline, tunnelling through the soft tissue of the neck, and striking JFK in the EOP region of the skull. Now, for Mr. Miller and those others who find difficulty in understanding this highly complicated event: 1. The occipital damage (item "B") to the skull which the Parkland ER personnel saw, can not be observed in the Z-film after the Z313 impact due to the simple fact that it did not exist until such time as the third/last/final shot impact. 2. The impact which created this damage to the skull did so when JFK was leaning well forward and his head down, thusly, the majority of cerebral tissue which was blown forward by the exiting bullet, was blown within the confines of the limosine and was blown forward all over Nellie and JBC. However, as stated in his testimony, some of this debri was apparantly blown into the direction of James Altgens. Mr. ALTGENS - There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, 3. The EOP damage is the bullet entrance which Dr. Humes/Boswell/Finke found, and which they not only fully examined (after all of the fragments were re-assembled into place), as well as having had photographs of the internal beveling of the inner table of the skull. 4. In fact, if one will actually read what is stated in the witness testimonies, Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital? Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. Then they do not even have to come up with space aliens or whatever to kidnap JFK's body and alter it. As Clint Hill has clearly stated exactly what anyone who has examined the evidence has long known. JFK had the back of his head shattered and blown apart into multiple fragments as a result of the impact of a bullet. Now, unless someone managed to shoot JFK in the head after the presidential limo had left Dealy Plaza, then a rational person would assume that in all probability that the damage to the OCCIPUT of JFK's head was a result of the third/last/final shot fired, as it most assuredly was not a result of the second shot/aka Z313 impact. More to come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted March 15, 2008 Author Share Posted March 15, 2008 Prior to moving on into the actual wounds, perhaps one should answer the WHY? of the FBI assassination re-enactment of 2/7/64, did the FBI leave the third/last/final/Altgens impact in place and attempt to "fudge" the Z313 impact back up Elm St. to correlate with JBC's actions. Primarily due to the fact that the FBI is not stupid. FBI Agents were present at the autopsy of JFK and were fully aware that the entry point into the scalp was down at the lowere edge of the hairline. Just as were they also aware that the three autopsy surgeons had found a wound of entry in the vicinity of the EOP. In addition, the FBI was in possession of JFK's coat, which also happens to have a second bullet hole penetration located just at the edge of the collar. With this, and a downward firing angle, it is physically impossible for any known bullet, fired on a downward angle, to strike the coat collar; exit to strike in the edge of the hairline at a point higher than the coat collar, then strike the skull at a point higher than the entry into the scalp; with the body sitting in an erect position. Thus, the (at the time) known forensic; ballistic; pathological; and physical evidence, made it imperative that JFK had to be leaned well forward with his head in a downward position at the time of impact of this shot. And, since this quite obviously IS NOT JFK's physical position at the Z313 impact, the FBI apparantly felt that the only way to make the known facts fit was to leave in that impact down in front of James ALtgens, of which Dr.'s Humes/Boswell/& Finke, as well as all others at the autopsy had observed the wound results. So, the FBI left in the "edge of hairline" entry as well as the third/last/final shot impact point in their 2/7/64 assassination re-enactment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted March 15, 2008 Author Share Posted March 15, 2008 The following is H.A.C. Exhibit F=144. I have marked the approximate two impact locations to the head of JFK in order to fully demonstrate the extent of the conflicts. The top/higher marking represents the H.A.C. Medical Panel's determination of the entry wound, which has become known as the "cowlick" entry, and is in fact the Z313/aka second shot impact location. The bottom/lower marking represents the entry point into the scalp of JFK which the autopsy surgeons found, and which entry "tunnelled" through the soft flesh at the base of the neck, (actually in an upwards direction as one is sitting erect), to strike in the EOP region of the skull. Mr. KELLERMAN. Entry into this man's head was right below that wound, right here. Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the bottom of the hairline immediately to the right of the ear about the lower third of the ear? Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. But it was in the hairline, sir. Mr. SPECTER. In his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. SPECTER. Near the end of his hairline? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Dr. Boswell, in his autopsy drawing, gave us the wound description; dimensions; as well as direction of bullet which struck the skull in the EOP region. And just as important, he also gave us the 15mm length of the skull penetration which tells us of the highly acute angle at which the bullet would have had to strike in order to create a 15mm length penetration through the skull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck, it caused him to move a bit forward. He seemed as if at the time----well, he was in a position-- sort of immobile. He wasn't upright. He was at an angle but when it hit him, it seemed to have just lodged--it seemed as if he were hung up on a seat button or something like that. It knocked him just enough forward that he came right on down. There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, Tom, Trying to reconcile the statement with the video. thanks chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Crane Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Chris you have a message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Austin Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Tom, I have seen photographs of President Kennedy's coat in books and in articles which show a single bullet hole 5 or 6 inches down from the top of the collar. I have never seen photographs showing that there is a second bullet hole at the collar so I was wondering where you found out about this extra hole? You quote FBI agent Hill saying that he saw the President lying down on the back seat of the Limo with the right rear part of his skull missing and his brain exposed. It does make you question the autopsy photgraph showing the scalp at the back of the President's head looking completely intact except for the presumed entry wound in the cow lick area. Also the lateral xray you posted shows fracturing of the occipital bone but no actual absence of bone in the right rear portion of the head where agent hill says there was missing skull. Any comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted March 15, 2008 Author Share Posted March 15, 2008 Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck, it caused him to move a bit forward. He seemed as if at the time----well, he was in a position-- sort of immobile. He wasn't upright. He was at an angle but when it hit him, it seemed to have just lodged--it seemed as if he were hung up on a seat button or something like that. It knocked him just enough forward that he came right on down. There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing,Tom, Trying to reconcile the statement with the video. thanks chris Not that difficult since Altgens could not have even seen JFK at the time of the Z313 impact, even if he were looking. Which he was not, as he was re-focusing his camera to the 15 foot distance setting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mr. ALTGENS - Because I didn't see who fired it. After the Presidential car moved a little past me, I took another picture--now, just let me back up here--I was prepared to make a picture at the very instant the President was shot. I had refocused to 15 feet because I wanted a good closeup of the President and Mrs. Kennedy, and that's why I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Altgens had taken the Z255 shot, which has been shown to demonstrate that no fracture existed in the car windshield at the time. Then of course came the Z313 impact of which the bullet severely fragmented and caused this damage, while Altgens was still engaged in his "re-focus" of his camera, and due to street elevations as well as the posiltion of the limosine, he would not have been able to see this impact to the head of JFK anyway. Glad to see that you caught the "He wasn't upright. He was at an angle". http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z312.jpg Pretty close to "upright" here! Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck, it caused him to move a bit forward Kind of makes one accept that the "bit forward" for the Z313 impact was most probably caused by the impact of this bullet as well, does it not? And, had Mr. Altgens seen the wound created in JFK's skull by this shot, as did Dr.'s Humes/Boswell/Finck, then he would have known absolutely that the shot came from behind as impact with the skull created a 6mm wide X 15mm in length penetration through the skull, with beveling of the INNER TABLE of the skull.---------------Guranteed Entry Point! Tom P.S. The "Fat Lady" is now quite through singing yet, however the voice is waning and the pitch is getting pretty bad. (kind of like the frequent lack of proof reading of postings) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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