Pat Speer

The Cuban Government claims it was Oswald. From Spartacus (by John Simkin, the founder of this Forum) (5) Arturo Rodriguez, Oswald in Mexico (August 1995)

??? Sylvia Duran, last I heard, believed she'd met the real Oswald. FWIW, many researchers believe Oswald went to Mexico, but was impersonated on the phone calls for various reasons. Essentially, the CIA suspected it had a mole, and didn't want the information regarding Oswald's visit to the Russian embassy to be reported back to Russia, as this would expose a human source. So they PRETENDED they'd intercepted a phone call in which Oswald spilled all the details they'd actually been provided from within the embassy. If the WC or HSCA had compared ALL such phone calls at that time, they may very well have uncovered dozens of other instances where people contacting the embassy were impersonated afterward. But they didn't. National security and all.

Didn't the CIA reject all these stories...the ones you claim they paid people to tell?

Perhaps if Stephen King and Posner announced they'd changed their minds...

Alvarado admitted he'd been lying.

I haven't listened to the podcast, but met Tosh in Dealey Plaza once. He was with Sherry Fiester, who had come to believe the fatal shot was fired from the South knoll. Tosh was telling her she was correct, and claimed he was on the south knoll at the time but didn't see who fired the shot or some such thing. in any event, my point is that Reiner, should he be pushing parts of Plumlee's story, but ignoring his claims about the South knoll, is guilty as heck of cherry-picking dubious crap to sell a sensational story. Shame.

Am I truly witnessing this? A debate over which character on the front steps in the films and photos is the hidden Oswald?

When I put together a timeline on my website, it became clear the detectives arrived at the Paine House, and spoke to Randle, an hour before they claimed in their report. I suspect this extra time was added to make it look like they didn't know about the "bag" until after a "bag" was "found", when the reverse was true. When I went searching for the original hand-written reports moreover I received a surprise that is almost never discussed in the assassination literature. They don't exist. Apparently, the DPD officers submitting reports submitted them to Fritz's office, whereby a Fritz Lt. re-wrote them and typed them up to tell a semi-coherent story. IOW, the original statements were dooky-canned. Hmmm...I wonder what else was "fixed" or disappeared.

I asked Frazier about the slats in 2014. He said they obstructed a clear view but you could still see movement on the other side. I think he's telling the truth about this. We have Venetian blinds in our kitchen and have them slightly open, where some light comes in, but you can't see much while looking straight out. And yet when someone walks past you can see them.

I think Jeff has played it the right way. If he came out and said "It really looks like the CIA conspired to kill Kennedy," it would probably damage his legal pursuit of the Joannides documents, and would almost certainly damage his access to the mainstream media. There are others like him--a writer from the Boston Globe comes to mind. They are essentially closeted CTs. They know the "official" story stinks to high heaven but can't come out and say as much for fear it will hurt their career. It's kinda like being a gay country singer. People in the biz might know, and might not even care, but they don't want you to tell. Like really don't want you to tell.

I have been watching JFK-land for decades, and it's clear to me that the inability for researchers/buffs to come to a consensus has more to do with psychology than the facts of the assassination. Those clasping onto the notion it was Oswald and Oswald alone tend to put public servants on a pedestal. They refuse to believe the DPD, FBI, and WC would lie for political reasons. It just doesn't compute. This disconnect is demonstrated, moreover, by a certain LN's recent claim he couldn't think like a CT because he did't want to be a Johnny Cochran. Well, this was ironic as heck considering that Joseph Ball, the man hand-picked by Earl Warren to build the case against Oswald, was THE Johnny Cochran of his day, that is, a defense attorney known for sneaky stunts designed to fool a jury. Now contrast this willful naïveté re the morality of public servants with the bizarre belief among all too many CTs that these same servants are incredibly sneaky, and smart, and willing and able to fake evidence--even evidence the public was never supposed to see. This is equally delusional, IMO. IMO, public servants (the DPD, the FBI, the staff and members of the Warren Commission) are like other people...marginally competent, blinded by bias, and mostly lazy. Any analysis of the facts holding that these people were super-moral or super-sneaky and clever is flawed, IMO. Feel free to disagree.

I agree. He's there. It's just that his dark features are blobbed together as a result of the low-res.

So you agree people lie and conspiracies exist, but refuse to engage in speculation about such things. Got it.

That would make sense, but I'm thrown by the paragraph in which it says she wants the exhibits copied. If they were talking about the physical exhibits it would say she wanted them photographed, not copied. "Copied" implies making copies of an image, to my way of thinking.

It's not unanswerable. You just don't like the answer.

I mention this document on my website. I take from it that the FBI has photos of 2 curtain rods, and is about to make copies of the photos. So I think my point is valid. When did they acquire the photos, and from whom?

Earth to David. As pointed out on my website, the 3-25 date on these images is a big problem. The DPD form for the rods says they received them on 3-15 and released them on 3-24. So how could they be taking photos of them on 3-25? Simple solution: it's a different set of rods. Lone-nutter solution: the 3-15 date was wrong and the 3-24 date was wrong and there is peace in Gaza and mommy's little baby loves shortnin' bread.

Only it's not Oswald. It's not him in the photo, and no one saw him there. It's Lovelady.

I agree with the substance of your point. But there's a Iproblem. The Oswald-did-it clique maintain that no one in a position to fib...fibbed. And that's totally out of step with reality. Either because they are incredibly out of step with reality. Or fibbers themselves. Having lived, I have some personal experience to draw from. Let me give some examples. 1. In my 20's I was asked by my sister's long-time boyfriend, a sergeant in the Los Angeles Police Department and essentially a member of my family, to help train young officers on the Warner Brothers back lot. I said yes. My girlfriend and I portrayed a couple in a domestic dispute, and groups of officers were paraded in every half hour to resolve this dispute. We were separated and interrogated. But here is the kicker. We had a back-story. We were arguing over her brother, an escapee from an out-of-state prison, who was hiding in our attic. At a certain point, the retired cop playing the brother would make a sound upstairs and the fun would begin. The officers were forced to navigate a dangerous situation. Not only was the brother armed and waiting for them, my girlfriend, playing his sister, had a revolver in the back of her pants. The results were kinda shocking. Although I was unarmed, and offered no physical resistance, I was shot and killed twice as I remember. I was also physically abused several times by young officers out to impress their superiors. As for my girlfriend and the retired officer, they were each shot and killed a few times, but they usually emerged victorious. They killed 15 officers the first day. Now here's the lesson in human nature. Although the officers were under strict orders not to discuss the scenario, it became clear on the second day that some had broken protocol and had warned the second day's trainees that my girlfriend had a gun. Only six were killed the second day. Now here's another lesson. A year or so later one of the young officers was killed in the line of duty while chasing a burglar down a street. The young killer then hid in a neighboring attic, where he was killed in a supposed shoot-out. But here's the thing. It came out later that he was shot by three officers, one at a time, while hiding in the attic. An officer would go up the ladder, shoot him, and come down. And then another officer would go up and shoot him. Three times. It was clear he'd been executed. But no one was punished because he was a cop-killer and they all covered up and said when they went up he raised his gun and they had to shoot him in self-defense. Three times. 2. Years later, I blew the whistle against some criminals, who had embezzled millions from my place of work, and had essentially shut the place down. I had numerous talks with the IRS criminal investigations division and FBI, and prosecution was imminent. But then 9/11 happened and nothing happened. After several months of silence, I recontacted the various agencies and got a cold shoulder. But then finally received word. The FBI was under orders to drop all white-collar crime investigations and focus on anti-terrorism. The only way to get the case re-activated was to link the criminals to a Muslim, or so I was told. And they had a particular Muslim in mind, a co-owner of our building, but he was a friend and largely on the sidelines. When I refused to help them build a case against him, well, the criminal case against the others--all guilty as heck--was abandoned, and the bank screwed out of its 15 million dollar Ioan had to sue. Whereby all the criminals declared bankruptcy, and nothing happened. The only one to go to jail was the accountant, on an unrelated matter. 3. Decades passed. And I developed leukemia. After cleaning out my lungs, my pulmonologist told me that I'd had a long-time exposure to a toxic substance. This led me then to look into my former place of employment. It turned out that the building where I worked for seven years had been a toxic waste site, that had even made the news when a large cloud of chlorine gas had escaped from a tank on the property, which led to an evacuation of thousands. This was 5 years before I worked there. In the meantime, the property was supposedly cleaned up...by my former boss, the embezzler. Well, piecing together the story, it appears he was given a huge discount on the property if he promised to clean it up, and had done a half-assed job when doing so. And no, it was pointless to sue him, because he'd subsequently been arrested for drug-trafficking, and had served years in prison. Well, then what about the city inspectors and politicians who'd signed off on the sale? The EPA would only provide records from after the company had gone bankrupt. These showed the place to be toxic alright. But what about tests performed just before I came to work there and while I was working there? For some reason, those were unavailable. I suspect my former boss, with some assistance from a local govt. employee, had made them disappear. And no, that's not being paranoid. I had in the past witnessed him bribing fire inspectors, and had more recently heard him boast of his Svengali-like hold over an IRS investigator, who'd spent a year in our building working on an audit and had conveniently discovered just enough to allow himself to remain at our building, which was near his house. which simultaneously allowed him to escape driving into the office, an hour away in traffic. 4. This brings me then to my years-long treatment for cancer. Along the way I have been pressured into many a procedure, most of which have turned out to be unnecessary, and many an over-priced medication. And there have also been some screw-ups. And yet my complaints to my doctors about nurses who'd screwed-up and nearly bled me to death, and an MRI tech who ignored my screams and refused to let me out and kept repeating the final cycle for two hours, and even a nurse who followed me into the bathroom and demanded I show her my penis, NEVER make it into any official reports ever. It's all about running up the bills and avoiding liability. So, no, David, "officialdom" is not comprised of church mice. It is comprised of flawed humans, many of whom fib or cover-up as a matter of routine.

Yikes. I met most of them. The Grim Reaper is circling around.

FWIW, this is nothing new. When I created my chapter on Myers' animation 15 years ago I read a number of his interviews, and they most always included some bit about saving America from the lunatics and America-haters. Apparently he thought it was his patriotic duty to perpetrate a hoax.

FWIW, my best friend growing up rose to the rank of Lt. Col. in U.S. Special forces. He told me we were backing off from Afghanistan and instead attacking Iraq...within weeks of 9/11...,and more than 6 months before the PR blitz started about Saddam's pursuing nuclear weapons. He said it was not a possibility, but an inevitability, and that it was U.S. policy--that we prepare for an upcoming invasion. Well, knowing this, I've never once doubted that the military began planning an escalation in Vietnam within days of JFK's murder, and then spent the next year trying to figure out how to sell it to the public.

Did you check the date Jenner gave the items exhibit numbers against the exhibit numbers given elsewhere on the same date? If so, and it appears he simply gave out a number he didn't realize was in use, and then corrected his error by changing "CE" to "Ruth Paine Exhibit" on the items, well, that's some good sleuthing. Bravo.

IF there was an image that gave him an alibi, I would tend to agree. But there is next to no evidence he was out on the steps during the shooting. No co-workers saying they saw him there. No photos emerging years or decades later showing him there. Bupkus.

I believe this is the same movie, with extra footage.