David Josephs

Just now, Glenn Nall said:

Through extensive and sleepless research, I am convinced that DCM had gone straight to Dealey Plaza from a tanning booth.

But I could be wrong.

 

 

I think spray-on came before the booths....   those early bulbs left a nasty mark....

2 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

When Lumpkin and Truly went to tell Fritz at approximately 1:30 that Oswald was missing,

According to Truly this happens much earlier....  he felt is was before 1pm just after Fritz had arrived.

They were congregated around the spot where the rifle was found yet Truly is not aware of that entire situation happening in front of him?

Mr. BALL. Where was Captain Fritz when you saw him? 
Mr. TRULY. He was on the sixth floor in the area where they found the rifle. 
Mr. BALL. And was the rifle there at the time? 
Mr. TRULY. No, I never saw the rifle. 
Mr. BALL. Was this after or before the rifle had been taken from the building? 
Mr. TRULY. It was before the rifle had been taken from the building. 
Mr. BALL. And do you know whether it was before or after the rifle was found? 
Mr. TRULY. Apparently the rifle had been found before I got to the sixth floor, but just how early, I don't know. 
Mr. BALL. But you had heard that the rifle was found, had you, by your talk with Fritz? 
Mr. TRULY. That's--I don't know--I learned it was found while I was on the sixth floor. 

Mr. BALL. Now, about what time of day would you say is your best estimate that you told Captain Fritz of the name "Lee Oswald" and his address? 
Mr. TRULY. My best estimate would be a little before 1 o'clock--10 minutes. 
Mr. BALL. The gun wasn't found until after 1 o'clock? 
Mr. TRULY. It wasn't found until after 1 o'clock? 
Mr. BALL. No, it wasn't found until after 1 o'clock. I won't tell you exactly the time the gun was found, but I will say that the gun was not found until after 1 o'clock. 
Mr. TRULY. Well, I may be mistaken about where I learned they had found the gun. I thought it was on the sixth floor--it could have been some other place. 
Mr. BALL. Captain Fritz said you didn't tell him that until after the gun was found and that seems to correspond with your memory too, is that correct? 
Mr. TRULY. It sure does, because I remember clearly that Captain Fritz was over at where the gun was found and I'm sure they must have found it or he wouldn't have been standing in that area when we came up there. 
Mr. BALL. Now, if the gun was found after I o'clock, when was it that you discovered that Lee Oswald wasn't there? 
Mr. TRULY. I thought it was about 20 minutes after the shooting--the assassination, but it could have been longer. 
Mr. BALL. In other words, you thought originally it might have been 10 minutes of 2 or so that you learned that? 
Mr. TRULY. Ten minutes to 1. 
Mr. BALL. Ten minutes to 1? 
Mr. TRULY. It was around 1 o'clock--that period of time after I came down from the sixth floor to the first floor was rather hazy in my memory. 

14 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

So the white elephant in the room, has anyone tried to use facial recognition software to line up the photos with the guy next to umbrella man?

Hmm?????

So I went thru the 2 mug shot books...   this is the only one I spotted who was close.

Not sure if he's dark enough...  just a guess.

That building with the 3 vertical windows is sitting diagonal across the street from FOUNDERS PLAZA...

Yet I cannot find when the original Plaza was built - all the info is for the 2013 50 year renovation...

The building on the corner replaces the one with the windows in the Zframes...

Now just need to find out when that low building was demolished...

1 minute ago, Sandy Larsen said:

My question is, how does one explain Reid's testimony? Did Oswald go back up to the 2nd floor after the shooting took place? Stay there for a moment and then go back down? If so, for what reason? To get another coke?

Well Sandy... 

From what I understood Oswald was eating lunch on the 1st floor and then went up to the 2nd floor...  got the coke and walked thru the 2nd floor offices to leave the building passing Mrs. Reid who obviously had been let back into the same building where the DPD claims they were searching for a man with a rifle...  but those citizens just keep streaming back into that building and people are coming out... let alone what occurs at the back doors...  here is the exhibit Reid marked...  He could have easily walked down the back steps and out the back... instead Pierce Allman supposedly runs into Oswald on his way in.... looking for a phone.

could the lunchroom scene have been created due to this testimony from Reid?  Mrs Reid testified right after Marrion Baker on March 25th  but had spoken to BELIN on the 20th.

Mr. BELIN. And when in Dallas, we started the stopwatch from the time that the last shot was fired, is that correct? 
Mrs. REID. That is right. 
Mr. BELIN. And then you went through your actions, what you saw, your conversations that you had, and your actions in going back into the building and up to the point that you saw Lee Harvey Oswald? 
Mrs. REID. That is right. 
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember how long by the stopwatch it took you? 
Mrs. REID. Approximately 2 minutes. 
 

Mr. BELIN. Turning to Exhibit 497, what doorway was it where you first saw him? 
Mrs. REID. Right here. 
Mr. BELIN. You are pointing to the doorway between numbers 27 and 28? 
Mrs. REID. That is right. 
Mr. BELIN. On Exhibit 497? 
Mrs. REID. That is right. 
Mr. BELIN. Where were you when you saw him in that doorway? 
Mrs. REID. I was coming right through here.
Mr. BELIN. You are pointing to what number there? 
Mrs. REID. Well, it is 29. 
Mr. BELIN. 29. And then about where were you when you actually passed him or had this exchange? 
Mrs. REID. Right along here. I passed my desk. 
Mr. BELIN. Why don't you put on Exhibit 496 an "X" as to where you were when you thought you passed him. 
Mrs. REID. Here. 
Mr. BELIN. I wonder if you would put the initial "R" which we will put for Mrs. Reid. 

There is the Armstrong answer which has some legs...   that it was Lee who Reid sees, not Harvey.  With Whaley reconfirming the man he drove had on an over coat to his brownish over shirt... and Bledsoe's testimony discredited... 

Later that afternoon, I heard that the City had a suspect in custody and I called and reported the information about the suspect running down the hill and getting into a car to Captain Fritz and was requested to come at once to City Hall. I went to the City Hall and identified the suspect they had in custody as being the same person I saw running down this hill and get into the station wagon and leave the scene.

Mr. BELIN - Could you describe the man that you saw running down toward the station wagon?
Mr. CRAIG - Oh, he was a white male in his twenties, five nine, five eight, something like that; about 140 to 150; had kind of medium brown sandy hair--you know, it was like it'd been blown--you know, he'd been in the wind or something--it was all wild-looking; had on--uh--blue trousers--
Mr. BELIN - What shade of blue? Dark blue, medium or light? 
Mr. CRAIG - No; medium, probably; I'd say medium. And, a--uh--light tan shirt, as I remember it.
Mr. BELIN - Anything else about him?
Mr. CRAIG - No; nothing except that he looked like he was in an awful hurry. 

Mr. BELIN - Was this man running towards the station wagon wearing a jacket?
Mr. CRAIG - No; I don't believe he was.

Mr. BALL. Here is Commission No. 162 which is a gray jacket with zipper. 
Mr. WHALEY. I thank that is the jacket he had on when he rode with me in the cab.
Mr. BALL. Look something like it?
And here is Commission Exhibit No. 163, does this look like anything he had on? 
Mr. WHALEY. He had this one on or the other one. 
Mr. BALL. That is right. 
Mr. WHALEY. That is what I told you I noticed. I told you about the shirt being open, he had on the two jackets with the open shirt. 
Mr. BALL. Wait a minute, we have got the shirt which you have identified as the rust brown shirt with the gold stripe in it. 
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL. You said that a jacket-- 
Mr. WHALEY. That jacket now it might have been clean, but the jacket he had on looked more the color, you know like a uniform set, but he had this coat here on over that other jacket, I am sure, sir. 
Mr. BALL. This is the blue-gray jacket, heavy blue-gray jacket. 
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. 

9 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

David Josephs: Well, honestly, many of us do. 

 

Speak for yourself David.

I am Jim....

Nothing wrong hearing out the thoughts of someone else - even if one disagrees - especially on these pages....

To me it simply makes the evidence directed explanations contrast more sharply with the LN conclusion.

Yet, those of the LN ilk are still missing some very important connections and blatant conflicts with the LN story...

As I've said repeatedly here, "People ain't gonna learn what they don't wanna know" and is true on both sides of this coin.... 

The time of the LNer being taken seriously has passed.  Just interesting to see which parts of the story they hang their hats upon...

no personal offense intended...

I realize this is a tangent...

With regards to the Lunchroom charade....  I don't know how deeply you've worked with the evidence offered but that's my area of focus.

It appears to me that wherever the FBI/SS/CIA/DPD could lie about something, they did.  Not 100% of course... but I see a plan that allows for a variety of different people to see and tell an accurate truth that - in the end - conflicts with other "accurate truths".

When witnesses are in such conflict with the physical evidence... and ALL the physical (and verbal) evidence is literally taken by the FBI the night of the 22nd.. we are left with evidence which completely skirts the chain of custody authentication process....

If the evidence in total cannot be trusted as "authentic" - the charges against Oswald based on such evidence are also not authentic.

If Oswald was the man coming down the stair... how much more incriminating can that be Lance?  than say a man behind a auto-closing door which takes a few seconds to do so, holding a coke he must have had time to purchase with witnesses claiming that was where he was left prior to the entire mess.

The real problem to me comes with the description which amazingly matches the description given by a number of people...  yet OZZIE was barely 5'9" and weighed no more than 135lbs...  so this to me means there was even more reason to use the affidavit...  it matched all the other descriptions... just not Oswald.

BAKER: "The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket."

BRENNAN: He was a white man in his early 30's, slender, nice looking, slender and would weigh about 165 to 175 pounds.

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 4:30 PM, Lance Payette said:

I was referring to the inevitable confusion and chaos that ensues when a President is shot on a public street in broad daylight and people are running around like chickens with their heads cut off, and specifically the confusion within the TBSD, and even more specifically the confusion of two men running through the building with the idea that the shooter(s) might still be inside.  The sense you are talking about, where sowing confusion is actually part of the assassination plan, obviously depends on what the plan was.

I believe the person coming down, as described in Baker's affidavit and the official version, was LHO.  I believe Baker's affidavit is an inartful description of what was later fleshed out as the second floor lunchroom encounter.  You can and presumably will say this is preposterous, but the fact is that the affidavit strikes me as a quick-and-dirty description of the same event as the lunchroom encounter.

 

Of course, that's what I would have asked.  My guess is, Baker would have said something like:  "The man was Oswald.  In the immediate aftermath of the assassination, I was confused about what floor we were on.  When I said the man was walking away from the stairway, I meant he was walking away from where I was on the stairway, which is why he had to turn when I called to him.  I summarized the event in a couple of lines, having no idea that every word would later be scrutinized with a microscope."  My guess would be that he probably did say something like this, which is why the issue had turned into a pumpkin by the time of his Warren Commission testimony.

 

Well, honestly, who cares what I think?

I haven't even written a book.  But since you've asked, I am heavily inclined to the Lone Nut theory; open to a possible "conspiracy" where LHO was the lone shooter (and lead conspirator) but possibly working with a couple of pro-Castro helpers; and somewhat less open to a small-scale conspiracy where LHO was cooperating with pro-Castro conspirators.  I reject any notion that LHO was a false defector, actually a member of the radical right rather than a Marxist, or a patsy in any sort of elaborate conspiracy involving LBJ, CIA, FBI, Military Intelligence, DPD, Mafia or the other usual suspects.

I can recognize the inconsistency between Baker's affidavit and the official version as "a problem" without regarding it as an insurmountable problem.  Yes, as I said in my OP, even as a more-or-less Lone Nutter I am not entirely happy with the lunchroom encounter - which is one of the reasons I tend to believe it's true.

I'm not laughing at those who see something sinister in these events.  A sinister interpretation is certainly possible.  It just seems weak to me.  (I just downloaded all 1600 pages of Reclaiming History on my Kindle at the exorbitant price of $30, which I never bothered to read when I was more of a conspiracy theorist myself.  So I will presumably emerge in a month or so as a full-tilt Lone Nutter.)

Lance...

"I'm not laughing at those who see something sinister in these events."    I see that and it's appreciated from a purely intellectual POV...

The very first "The Evidence IS the Conspiracy" article I wrote I made the assumption that Oswald was the LN and accomplished his goal, his plan...  But then I look closely at the details and timing of this "plan" and some of the most simple thing begin to unravel....

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/oswald-on-november-22-1963   is the article... it's not very long and goes to the heart of your conclusion...

That is - if Oswald did it he must have passed thru some key milestones to be at the window with the rifle at the right time...

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 4:30 PM, Lance Payette said:

Well, honestly, who cares what I think?

Well, honestly, many of us do.  Someone who can articulate their position while leaving the door open for additional info is the PERFECT forum member...  I can respect Tracy for his POV and approach...  I simply disagree with his analysis and conclusions.

I'd be very interested in your take on the little article I wrote years ago...  it is the opening essay to a collection of work I am compiling.  And while I agree with Salandria about the minutia wearing us down... it is in the minutia that the WCR gives away its cover-up....

You may have seen this BOSWELL drawing... basically describing how most of the skull was gone...

Had you seen the ARRB skull where BOSWELL draws the missing bone right on it?

Now contrast that what was seen at Parkland by those who as close as HUMES or BOSWELL.   That's quite a difference, no?

Not all subscribe to the head alteration theories....  From the descriptions at Parkland to the Autopsy there appears to me to be quite a difference...

Humes describes the damage in his testimony...  I did a representation of what he said on an image of the skull/brain...  Either three bullets did hit him in a number of places or HUMES attempted a craniotomy among other things...

It must be remembered that skull does not fall from the scalp simply because it is broken... there are connections which require severing so that skull and brain can be removed regardless of how damaged it is...

"We found that the right cerebral hemisphere was markedly disrupted. There was a longitudinal laceration of the right hemisphere which was parasagittal in position. By the sagittal plane, as you may know, is a plane in the midline which would divide the brain into right and left halves. This laceration was parasagittal. It was situated approximately (1 & 2) 2.5 cm. to the right of the midline, and extended from the tip of occipital lobe, which is the posterior portion of the brain, to the tip of the frontal lobe which is the most anterior portion of the brain, and it extended from the top down to the substance of the brain a distance of approximately 5 or 6 cm.  The base of the laceration was situated approximately 4.5 cm. below the vertex in the white matter. By the vertex we mean--the highest point on the skull is referred to as the vertex.
The area in which the greatest loss of brain substance was particularly in the parietal lobe, which is the major portion of the right cerebral hemisphere.
The margins of this laceration at all points were jagged and irregular, with additional lacerations extending in varying directions and for varying distances from the main laceration.
In addition, there was a (3) laceration of the corpus callosum which is a body of fibers which connects the two hemispheres of the brain to each other, which extended from the posterior to the anterior portion of this structure, that is the corpus callosum. Exposed in this laceration were portions of the ventricular system in which the spinal fluid normally is disposed within the brain.
When viewed from above the left cerebral hemisphere was intact. There was engorgement of blood vessels in the meninges covering the brain. We note that the gyri and sulci, which are the convolutions of the brain over the left hemisphere were of normal size and distribution.
Those on the right were too fragmented and distorted for satisfactory description.
(4) When the brain was turned over and viewed from its basular or inferior aspect, there was found a longitudinal laceration of the mid-brain through the floor of the third ventricle, just behind the optic chiasma and the mammillary bodies. This laceration partially communicates with an oblique 1.5 cm. tear through the left cerebral peduncle. This is a portion of the brain which connects the higher centers of the brain with the spinal cord which is more concerned with reflex actions."

11 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

Given what we know happened (e.g., LHO for some reason left the TSBD immediately after the shooting and went home to get his .38), are the inconsistencies more likely attributable to the extreme chaos and confusion surrounding the events or to some nefarious conspiracy?

From what I understand Lance, one of the purposes of a "plan" is to foster and use that confusion...  The two sets of Tramps is a great example...  but that's another story.

Bottom line Lance.... if at this point in history we do not understand that the JFK assassination was a conspiracy which did not...DID NOT involve the man Ruby shot... then there is truly very little point in continuing a conversation....

14 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

I personally have a difficult time understanding the sense and purpose of a fictional second floor lunchroom encounter that (1) was inconsistent with Baker's known affidavit, and (2) included the puzzling detail of the supposed assassin not being winded or flustered and indeed being almost supernaturally calm and collected.  To me, Baker's affidavit is describing essentially the same event as the second-floor lunchroom encounter and is not really troubling at all.  But maybe that's just me viewing the evidence through Lone Nut-colored glasses.

{sigh} didn't think we had any more LNers left...  kinda like earth is flat and the moon is made of cheese - these things have been proven wrong just like the LNer theories.

We can speculate about why...  I see it firmly avoiding who that person coming down was... given how quickly after the shooting Baker claims to be there... this person would be suspect #1

no?.

You're a lawyer, What questions would YOU ask? 

Someone should have asked:   "Officer Baker / Mr. Truly:  the Baker Affidavit 11/22 states you both encountered a man coming down the stairs between the 3rd and 4th floors who worked at the TSBD - who was that?"

The Baker affidavit most certainly does not jive with the testimony...  he was calm, cool and collected since he had been in that room a while....  Mrs Reid again almost says as much when asked...  she is fairly well spoken for most of the interview except when they ask about her leaving anyone in the lunchroom:

Mr. BELIN. All right. When you left the lunchroom, did you leave with the other girls? 
Mrs. REID. No; I didn't. The younger girls had gone and I left alone. 
Mr. BELIN. Were you the last person in the lunchroom? 
Mrs. REID. No; I could not say that because I don't remember that part of it because I was going out of the building by myself, I wasn't even, you know, connected with anyone at all. 
Mr. BELIN. Were there any men in the lunchroom when you left there? 
Mrs. REID. I can't, I don't, remember that. 
Mr. BELIN. All right. 
Mrs. REID. I can't remember the time they left. 

If you read the affidavit from 11/22 (not the 9/24/64 statement I posted) then how can they ask him about leaving the 2nd floor lunchroom... that FACT was never established but by Truly conflicting with the first day affidavit.  Truly testified right before Baker and after Brennan on March 24... well before the 9/24 statement was written.

Mr. TRULY. I suppose I was up two or three steps before I realized the officer wasn't following me. 
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do? 
Mr. TRULY. I came back to the second floor landing. 
Mr. BELIN. What did you see? 
Mr. TRULY. I heard some voices, or a voice, coming from the area of the lunchroom, or the inside vestibule, the area of 24. 

Mr. BAKER - As I was in the homicide office there writing this, giving this affidavit, I got hung in one of those little small offices back there, while the Secret Service took Mr. Oswald in there and questioned him and I couldn't get out by him while they were questioning him, and I did get to see him at that time.
Mr. DULLES - You saw him for a moment at that time?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, you then left the second floor lunchroom with Mr. Truly, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER - That is right, sir.

{sigh}

Are the LN glasses simply for the purpose of analysis - or is that where you've landed? 

How do you start out stating the affidavit would indeed be a problem... then conclude that the affidavit and testimony are not in conflict?  It takes a man FARTHER from the sniper's window and puts him closer and on the stairs coming down...  how much more incriminating does it have to be...  yet we have no idea who that person was....

Don't you think that's a little important?

Additionally, men were encountered coming down from the upper floors a number of times...  Mooney WAS a sheriff yet he doesn't know or wont say who was coming down...  Sawyer was all over the place as well...  we never return to who this man in the elevator between 12:34 and 12:37, was.   In reality the TSBD was not sealed with people coming and going for at least 20 minutes.  SAWYER is one to look at very carefully.

Mr. MOONEY - It was a push button affair the best I can remember. got hold of the controls and it worked. We started up and got to the second. I was going to let them off and go on up. And when we got there, the power undoubtedly cut off, because we had no more power on the elevator. So I looked around their office there, just a short second or two, and then I went up the staircase myself. And I met some other officers coming down, plainclothes, and I believe they were deputy sheriffs. They were coming down the staircase. But I kept going up. And how come I get off the sixth floor, I don't know yet. But, anyway, I stopped on six, and didn't even know what floor I was on.

Mr. BELIN. Now you took an elevator up, is that correct? 
Mr. SAWYER. That's right. 
Mr. BELIN. The route that you took to the elevator, you went to the front door? 
Mr. SAWYER. Right. 
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do? 
Mr. SAWYER. We got into the elevator. We run into this man. 
Mr. BELIN. Well, when you say you got into the elevator, where was the elevator as you walked in the front door? 
Mr. SAWYER. It was to the right. 
Mr. BELIN. To the right? 
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BELIN. Was it a freight elevator or a passenger elevator? 
Mr. SAWYER. The best of my recollection, it was a passenger elevator. 
Mr. BELIN. Did you push for the top button in that elevator? 
Mr. SAWYER. Well, I don't know who pushed it, but we went up to the top floor. 
Mr. BELIN. You went up to the top floor that the elevator would go to? 
Mr. SAWYER. That's right. 

Looking at what was offered above as "the same as Nov 22"... with yet another personal dig against the community....

Seems to me there are easily seen windows in the zfilm, yet not so much in any other film...  especially the reenactment

looking closely at the image claimed to NOT be tampered with....  wondering what those grey/white rectangles where the windows should be, are.

or the lower set of windows....

Everything else that is BLACK on the zframe is the same: signs, posts, lights.

The point being made is that the windows on that building are not seen during the reenactments.

Do we expect these windows to be completely gone...  maybe the limitations of the camera?

You're very welcome...

Mantik addresses that area specifically as well... the hole was covered over by crushing out the white which translates to solid bone from right side to left side of head in that one area... add the "black" areas where brain should have been..

The other thing you may wish to read is EBERSOLE's ARRB testimony...  he was in charge of the Xray techs...  and claims the SS told him to take another set of autopsy photos...

The initial films showed the usual metallic fragments in the skull but no evidence of a slug, a bullet. This was a little bit disconcerting. We were asked by the Secret Service agents present to repeat the films and did so Once again there was no evidence of a bullet. I assume you are familiar with portable X ray It is not the kind that gives a fine diagnostic but it is helpful in picking up metallic fragments. It would stand out like a sore thumb either intact or shattered.
The autopsy proceeded and at this point I am simply an observer. Dr. Humes in probing the wound of entrance found it to extend perhaps over the apex of the right lung bruising the pleura and appeared to go toward or near the midline of the lower neck.
I believe by ten or ten thirty approximately a communication equipment location had been established with Dallas and it was learned that there had been a wound of exit in the lower neck that had been surgically repaired. I don't know if this was premortem or postmortem but at that point the confusion as far as we were concerned stopped.
The only function that I had was later in the evening, early in the morning, perhaps about twelve thirty a large fragment of the occipital bone was received from Dallas and at Dr. Finck's request I X rayed these. These were the last X rays I took. The X rays were taken by the Secret Service that evening; I did not see them again.

 

17 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

David,

 

The best that I've been able to come up with is a combined Report filed by the Assistant Chief, Charles Batchelor and Deputy Chiefs, M.W. Stevenson and Charles Lumpkin in Box 14, Folder# 4, Item# 10 here:

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box14.htm

 

It's kind of sad, really. So much history was lost by not getting them to fill out their own individual reports.

 

Steve Thomas

 

Pierce Allman.... 

  http://www.whiterocklakeweekly.com/14619/151139/a/young-dallasites-world-changed-in-20-seconds
A 20-something Pierce Allman’s work took him to the street on Nov. 22, 1963, and in a short order his life was on a different trajectory. As the country’s youngest radio program director, a job he held since 1958, Allman left his WFAA Radio office to catch the JFK motorcade firsthand from the corner of Elm and Houston Streets.

"Channel 8 photographer" ???

There is also no mention of Tommy Alyea ??

Says too that he instructed REVILL to organize a search and start in the basement...  the next page says they were done with the searching by 2:45pm...  and then we have the infamous HOSTY telling REVILL that the FBI was aware of the subject in the basement of the DPD at 2:50pm.

Gonna need to print these all out....  thanks Steve

Hey there Keyvan

https://assassinationresearch.com/v2n2/pittsburgh.pdf  this is the Dr. Mantik paper on the xrays and what they tell us...

If you haven't already, this is an important read

DJ

ps - here are some better views of the fragments and their locations....

Lance...

Most of us here have learned to stop asking the go nowhere "WHY" question....

From a logic standpoint Lance, the man coming down the stairs between the 3rd and 4th floor (BAKER's affidavit) is much closer to the 6th floor window than a man in the lunchroom already drinking a coke...

Why in the world would they substitute Oswald on the 2nd floor with Oswald on the stairs?

Ever hear of Mrs Reid?

Mrs. REID. Well, I kept walking and I looked up and Oswald was coming in the back door of the office. I met him by the time I passed my desk several feet and I told him, I said, "Oh, the President has been shot, but maybe they didn't hit him." 
He mumbled something to me, I kept walking, he did, too. I didn't pay any attention to what he said because I had no thoughts of anything of him having any connection with it at all because he was very calm. He had gotten a coke and was holding it in his hands and I guess the reason it impressed me seeing him in there I thought it was a little strange that one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time, not that he had done anything wrong. The only time I had seen him in the office was to come and get change and he already had his coke in his hand so he didn't come for change and I dismissed him. I didn't think anything else. 

So when is it that BAKER "rewrites" the statement to address the COKE comment?  September 23 1964... within a week of the WCR delivery.  One MUST wonder how it comes to be that the "corrected and official" statement related to the assassin's activities just after the shooting is not written until the end of Sept - given BAKER's affidavit from Nov 22.  An affidavit the WC avoids like the plague.

Why is Baker's 11/22 affidavit not a legal document which contradicts the official conclusions?

IT WAS NOT OSWALD WHO TRULY AND BAKER RUN INTO, COMING DOWN THE STAIRS.

So who was it that Baker claims Truly said "I know that man he works here...."?  if Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunchroom at the time?

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 10:33 AM, Lance Payette said:

What sense does this conspiracy make?

Vincent Salandria:

            "I'm afraid we were misled," Salandria said sadly.  "All the critics, myself included, were misled very early.  I see that now.  We spent too much time and effort micro-analyzing the details of the assassination when all the time it was obvious, it was blatantly obvious that it was a conspiracy.  Don't you think that the men who killed Kennedy had the means to do it in the most sophisticated and subtle way?  They chose not to.  Instead, they picked the shooting gallery that was Dealey Plaza and did it in the most barbarous and openly arrogant manner.  The cover story was transparent and designed not to hold, to fall apart at the slightest scrutiny.  The forces that killed Kennedy wanted the message clear:  'We are in control and no one -- not the President, nor Congress, nor any elected official -- no one can do anything about it.'  It was a message to the people that their government was powerless.  And the people eventually got the message.  Consider what has happened since the Kennedy assassination.  People see government today as unresponsive to their needs, yet the budget and power of the military and intelligence establishment have increased tremendously.

            "The tyranny of power is here.  Current events tell us that those who killed Kennedy can only perpetuate their power by* promoting social upheaval both at home and abroad.  And that will lead not to revolution but to repression.  I suggest to you, my friend, that the interests of those who killed Kennedy now transcend national boundaries and national priorities.  No doubt we  are dealing now with an international conspiracy.  We must face that fact -- and not waste any more time micro-analyzing the evidence.  That's exactly what they want us to do.  They have kept us busy for so long.  And I will bet, buddy, that is what will happen to you.  They'll keep you very, very busy and, eventually, they'll wear you down."

On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:55 PM, Steve Thomas said:

And why didn't Truly, when telling Lumpkin and Fritz that Oswald was missing, also tell them about having encountered Oswald in the second floor lunchroom only moments after the shooting?

 

Steve Thomas

cause it never happened...  

but the Lumpkin/.Fritz meeting is also very revealing...  BALL here does his very best to knock down TRULY's timing...  If I remember correctly an ATF man Ellsworth claims the rifle was found on the 4th/5th floor, earlier, and moved to the 6th... 

(There is not a single report authored by Lumpkin in the Dallas Archives Index...   ???)

Mr. BALL. Now, if the gun was found after I o'clock, when was it that you discovered that Lee Oswald wasn't there? 
Mr. TRULY. I thought it was about 20 minutes after the shooting--the assassination, but it could have been longer. 
Mr. BALL. In other words, you thought originally it might have been 10 minutes of 2 or so that you learned that? 
Mr. TRULY. Ten minutes to 1. 
Mr. BALL. Ten minutes to 1? 
Mr. TRULY. It was around 1 o'clock--that period of time after I came down from the sixth floor to the first floor was rather hazy in my memory. 
Mr. BALL. You think it might have been after 1 when you first noticed he wasn't there? 
Mr. TRULY. I don't think so---I don't feel like at was. It could have possibly been so. 
Mr. BALL. Well, if the gun was not found before 1:10, if it wasn't found before that, can you give me any estimate? 
Mr. TRULY. That seems to be a longer time after the assassination. 
Mr. BALL. You didn't wait 20 minutes from the time you learned Lee Oswald's address until the time you told Captain Fritz, did you? 
Mr. TRULY. No, sir; I did stand there on the first floor waiting until Chief Lumpkin got through talking for a few minutes. 
Mr. BALL. Tell me about how many minutes you think it was from the time you obtained the address of Lee Oswald until you told Captain Fritz the name and address? 
Mr. TRULY. I think it was immediately. 
Mr. BALL. Immediately? 

Truly then states that Fritz was in the area where the rifle WAS found - yet there is no rifle

Mr. BALL. Where was Captain Fritz when you saw him? 
Mr. TRULY. He was on the sixth floor in the area where they found the rifle. 
Mr. BALL. And was the rifle there at the time? 
Mr. TRULY. No, I never saw the rifle. 
Mr. BALL. Was this after or before the rifle had been taken from the building? 
Mr. TRULY. It was before the rifle had been taken from the building. 
Mr. BALL. And do you know whether it was before or after the rifle was found? 
Mr. TRULY. Apparently the rifle had been found before I got to the sixth floor, but just how early, I don't know. 
Mr. BALL. But you had heard that the rifle was found, had you, by your talk with Fritz? 
Mr. TRULY. That's--I don't know--I learned it was found while I was on the sixth floor. 
Mr. BALL. While you were on the sixth floor? 
Mr. TRULY. While I was on the sixth floor. 

(Fritz does not arrive at the TSBD until 12:58)

Mr. BALL. Now, about what time of day would you say is your best estimate that you told Captain Fritz of the name "Lee Oswald" and his address? 
Mr. TRULY. My best estimate would be a little before 1 o'clock--10 minutes. 
Mr. BALL. The gun wasn't found until after 1 o'clock? 
Mr. TRULY. It wasn't found until after 1 o'clock? 
Mr. BALL. No, it wasn't found until after 1 o'clock. I won't tell you exactly the time the gun was found, but I will say that the gun was not found until after 1 o'clock. 
Mr. TRULY. Well, I may be mistaken about where I learned they had found the gun. I thought it was on the sixth floor--it could have been some other place. 

Disproved by the simple properties of physics...  the door has its own closing mechanism...  we are supposed to accept that in the time Truly turns to go a couple steps up the 3rd flight of stairs, Baker has seen Oswald THRU the window, opened the door

Mr. BAKER - As I came out to the second floor there, Mr. Truly was ahead of me, and as I come out I was kind of scanning, you know, the rooms, and I caught a glimpse of this man walking away from this--I happened to see him through this window in this door. I don't know how come I saw him, but I had a glimpse of him coming down there.
Mr. DULLES - Where was he coming from, do you know?

Mr. BELIN. All right. Number 23, the arrow points to the door that has the glass in it.
Now, as you raced around, how far did you start up the stairs towards the third floor there? 
Mr. TRULY. I suppose I was up two or three steps before I realized the officer wasn't following me. 
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do? 
Mr. TRULY. I came back to the second floor landing. 

Mr. BELIN. What did you do then? 
Mr. TRULY. I ran over and looked in this door No. 23. 
Mr. BELIN. Through the glass, or was the door open? 
Mr. TRULY. I don't know. I think I opened the door. I feel like I did. I don't remember. 
Mr. BELIN. It could have been open or it could have been closed, you do not remember? 
Mr. TRULY. The chances are it was closed. 
Mr. BELIN. You thought you opened it? 
Mr. TRULY. I think I opened it. I opened the door back and leaned in this way.

(not my work)

On ‎12‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 3:28 PM, Chris Davidson said:

David,

Listen to the Tina Towner clip while viewing the side by side frames.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wUpvU6b28UGTslP54m6GVGi6QUCzR_eo/view?usp=sharing

The side by side is before JFK the limo reaches Position A.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you look at Towner Chris...

Right about at this moment does it appear to you that the limo "SLIDES" to the left as opposed to turning to the left...

I used that position to show the red curb where Truly stood...  Towner give no impression of what Truly states: where the limo must almost stop and turn sharply left to get back to the middle....

As counter point - and why I just can't accept it without some better explanations...

Weigman established the location of the curb Truly talks about...
Here is Towner with the Weigman curb drawn in...

To get into position A the car's rear end would need to be much closer to the TSBD...

On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 12:23 PM, Chris Davidson said:

Paul,

Do you believe the films or his testimony?

Mr. TRULY. That is right.
And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn. 
Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb? 
Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left.
If he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here. 

There are a few things that make TRULY's testimony - and the removal of the ELM TURN - a distinct possibility

First there is POSITION A.  Created by Shaneyfelt:

r. DULLES. Where is position A on that chart? 
Mr. SHANEYFELT. Position A is here. 
Mr. McCLOY. That is before you get to the tree? 
Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; he isn't under the tree yet. 
Mr. SPECTER. And what occupant, if any, in the car is position A sighted on for measuring purposes? 
Mr. SHANEYFELT. All of the photographs made through the rifle sight that are shown on the exhibit in the lower left-hand corner were sighted on the spot that was simulating the spot where the President was wounded in the neck. The chalk mark is on the back of the coat. 
Mr. SPECTER. When you say that position A is the first position at which President Kennedy was in view of the marksman from the southeast window on the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, you mean by that the first position where the marksman saw the rear of the President's stand-in? 
Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. 
Mr. SPECTER. So that would be the first position where the marksman could focus in on the circled point where the point of entry on the President was marked? 
Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. 
Mr. SPECTER. Could the marksman then have taken a shot at the President at any prior position and have struck him with the point of entry on that spot, on the base of the President's neck? 
Mr. SHANEYFELT. I don't quite understand the question. 
Mr. SPECTER. Was there any prior position, that is a position before position A, where the marksman from the sixth floor could have fired the weapon and have struck the President at the known point of entry at the base of the back of his neck? 
Mr. SHANEYFELT. No; because as the car moves back, you lose sight of the chalk mark on the back of his coat.

Now see, this is a false statement, just look at CE886...  can the vehicle be moved to the left and still see the chalk mark on the jacket? Of course you can...

So the question then is not a matter of what significance POSITION A was, other than the limo traveled thru that point...  yet if the limo traveled thru that point, 

How does it get back into position for Z133 given what it looks like to have POSITION A and Z133 in the same frame

If the limo did not travel thru POSITION A there would be no reason to include it in the analysis...  but they did.

THIS is what the turn looked like - how they were able to fix the TOWNER film is something we need to keep looking at...

It must be remembered that the limo was almost 22 feet long... that's over 2/3 the width of the lane...

Ask yourself - why did the FBI add and then include position A... if the limo never drove thru it?

(edit:  Would have turned?  Shaneyfelt claims Station C is where the limo WOULD have turned... no just turned...
if the turn started after C, Truly's curb recollection is more than plausible...

Thanks Doug - got this link a day or so ago from a friend

===

I wrote Mr. Hall a note over this article...

First for not seeking a decent source for information and second so I could send him some documents which he needed to see.

I explained to him the connection between General Cabell and TEXTRON/BELL Helicopter and Vietnam.

I explained to him that Phillips took over as Chief of the CUBA desk at the Mexi station on Oct 7 - a day before the famous memo...
and then leaves on the 9th to retrieve a package he sends to himself as CHOADEN.

We are going to discuss Mexico City a bit more next week and hopefully we can be a bit more transparent about these documents...

He seems truly interested - I'll keep you posted  ...

DJ

Could any of it have to do with the translations?

Like the order of the name in Russia is different than USA...  
or the word "citizen" being loosely translated...

IDK...  

You think, like the diary, these notes were done in a sitting to provide "documentation" to the Americans... and not over the time of his employment?

CE 1311 - Photograph of assassination window from inside of building showing person of Lee Harvey Oswald's height ..

Repeatedly the H&L naysayers claim there was no height difference or concerns...  That despite leaving the Marines at 5"11" and 150 lbs

the man at the window was - with 2" man-heels - 5' 7"

Why would they make a 5'10" man only 5'7" ??  Even the Rose Autopsy said he was 5'9"...

Why is he made out to be so short when all the records seem to claim he was 2 to 4 inches taller?

And in such a strange assortment of exhibits....

So the Soviets put a non-citizen foreigner in the "Experimental" shop - whatever that is... as a locksmith in a Radio factory ???

or like this one of a man "Lee Harvey Oswald's height"

CE 1311 - Photograph of assassination window from inside of building showing person of Lee Harvey Oswald's height ..

5'10" 165 lbs...with 2 inch man-heels  

I was under the impression we agreed that the glass jar helps orient the image so that the hole is almost centered on the occipital
and the scalp was reflected as usual - forward and back....

If we were to rotate the image to the right around a center line the reflection is still forward with the hole off center to the right at the back of the head.

A different view with the Boswell overlay....

Robin, do you think they turned his head that far to the left (bottom image in your collage) for the F8 photo?