David Josephs

51 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

Thanks David,

What I need is a frontal location specified, that you believe works.

The sewer drain down at street level on Elm St works, but, only if JFK within the limo is down near Station# 4+96 as has been previously plotted.

Considering we are working backward for medical evidence which is a fraud... the wounds described would not lead to a shooter location.

I would suggest along the right front, or the south knoll.... in addition to the sewer...

4+96 works just fine for me... WEST and the rest who knew a shot occurred there...

This is CE585 showing the change from the original

Hey there Scott....

I found this going thru the new release...  Dated Oct 17, it discusses the LIFIRE surveillance team watching POYLE when he arrives...

This suggests to me that POYLE was not there earlier - as in when Oswald is said to have been...

DJ

40 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

David,

Taken into consideration.

If someone shot him from the storm drain out front, do you believe the Harper fragment would have propelled backwards along the lines of the bullet trajectory?

Backward and most probably towards the Queen Mary...  this is a link to what Floyd Boring claimed to have said about 1" x 2"  (2.5 cm x 5 cm) bone fragment... and then Kellerman claims that he spoke of 2 bone fragments in the Queen Mary... that THEY were to be sent down to the lab... but only one fragment seems to have records of analysis.

Wonder what that other fragment was?

https://books.google.com/books?id=YA4CBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT321&lpg=PT321&dq=Floyd+Boring+bone+fragment+Queen+mary&source=bl&ots=A7F6ke_cZa&sig=iZA3MtU7qUUmYAPMPi5fh6KM7ko&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjp9fGWzvPYAhVOyGMKHU9eD5IQ6AEINzAF#v=onepage&q=Floyd Boring bone fragment Queen mary&f=false

14 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Start at about the one minute mark if you don't want to watch the whole segment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmFdfvDT6GQ

The frame below shows where Harper stops and gestures. Look at what's in the background.

 

 

And you're of the opinion that although the entire Dealey Plaza area was searched on the 22nd, the Harper fragment is not found until the 23rd, in the evening... and it is in front of the limo at the time of the shot...

You think that piece was not put there after the fact?   Apiece of the bone 30 yards in front of JFK?   If Angel is correct, the sewer - and the shot out the right rear top of the head is not so far fetched...

But I would hesitate to use the Harper location to trace back to a shooter...  IMHO

J. Lawrence Angel described the fragment in a memorandum addressed to the HSCA:
"The Harper fragment photographs show it as a roughly trapezoidal piece, 7 centimeters by 5.5 centimeters in size, coming mainly from the upper middle third of the right parietal bone. Near its short upper edge vascular foramina on the inside and a faint irregular line on the outside indicate sagital structure. Its posterior inferior pointed edge appears to fit the crack in the posterior section of the right parietal [bone] and its slightly wavy lower border can fit the upper edge of the loose lower section of right parietal[bone]. Its upper short border, on the left of the midline near vertex, may meet the left margin of the gap. behind it there appears to be a large gap and in front a narrow one.

That links' video makes it sound as if he encounters the man with the rifle under his coat on the sidewalk of Elm...

At no point does he talk about where the end of the arrow from #6 points... He was talking about where the #6 is....

And in Bronson that dark silhouette has already passed that area...

Maybe he's talking about either Umbrella or DC man?

Based on what Chris?

Gene - before you answer you may want to check the thread from where this info comes...  That's not a "12", it's a "2"... which means the postmarked envelope is dated 7 days prior to the typed letter...

The "letter of the 12th" was actually post marked Nov 2nd...  there is no "1" there as proven in a different thread that Paul has also ignored...

When we spend time analyzing something Paul and come to a conclusion... you being blind to it doesn.t make it wrong, it makes you wrong.

The NOISE of the image is what appears as a "1"...  Looking below, a "12" is a "12"...  This Ruth BS is just that... 

17 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

A useful question, I hope.  Why didn't Tippit draw his gun when exiting the car?  We have no accounts saying that he did. 

If his revolver had been found out of its holster...we might not have more certainty but we'd certainly have more to discuss.  Less cynically - drawing his gun in caution might have saved Tippit's life.

So, if he's not accosting someone, or some pair, with gun drawn, why is he getting out of his car?  Did he think his badge and height/size alone would be intimidating, on the day of an assassination?

David... I was reading some things about Tippit where it was relayed that he did not look people in the eyes when speaking or approaching them....

Obviously I don't know the full extent of Tippit's background (like Greer's tendency to brake in an emergency rather than accelerate)
yet I am sure I am making assumptions about behavior without understanding the motivations or reasons.

Another possibility is that Tippit was expecting this person... was in on it with him and was part of some escape plan which turned against him...

The shirt on the hanger in the back of Tippit's car is highly suggestive of a change and sitting in a cop car looking normal from the waist up... do we have any more info on that shirt? was it Tippit's?

There simply would be no reason for him to be suspicious in Oak Cliff, or even sent to Oak Cliff...  add also his behavior in those fateful minutes suggests a simple man following his instructions within a bigger plan

3 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Why did these two eyewitnesses disappear from the record?

Summers, Poe & "L E JEZ"

I see the POE witness as Benavidas...   (there is nothing from JEZ that I could find about Tippit, only the Oswald killing)

Mr. BELIN - Did he ever take you to the police station and ask you if you could identify him? 
Mr. BENAVIDES - No; they didn't. 
Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald? 
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald. 
Mr. BELIN - Were they newspaper pictures or television pictures, or both, or neither? 
Mr. BENAVIDES - Well, television pictures and newspaper pictures. The thing lasted about a month, I believe, it seemed like.

Mr. BELIN - Anything else you can think of about the man after you saw him? What was he wearing? What did he look like? 
Mr. BENAVIDES - Well, he was kind of, well, just about your size. 
Mr. BELIN - About my size? I am standing up. 
Mr. BENAVIDES - You are about 5' 10"? 
Mr. BELIN - I am between 5' 10" and 5' 11". Closer to 5' 11", I believe. 
Mr. BENAVIDES - I would say he was about your size, and he had a light-beige jacket, and was lightweight. 

Poe's other witness must be Markham...   Poe also neglects mentioning that he gave the hulls to HILL.

I believe Hill creates one set of pistol/hull evidence with BARNES/POE creating another....

These are the logs.... Sawyer from Brennan gives the physical description, except his testimony does not match the transcript...   

Mr. BELIN. Then the reply to you, "Any clothing description?" 
Mr. SAWYER. "Current witness can't remember that." 
Mr. BELIN. Then the statement is made sometime before 12:45 p.m., and after the 12:43 p.m., call, "Attention all squads, description was broadcast and no further information at this time." 

Mr. BELIN. Now the next time that No. 9 appears is at what time? 
Mr. SAWYER. Immediately after 12:43 and before 12:45. 
Mr. BELIN. What did you say then? 
Mr. SAWYER. "The wanted person in this is a slender white male about 30, 5 feet 10, 165, carrying what looks to be a 30-30 or some type of Winchester." 

Mr. SAWYER. That description came to me mainly from one witness who claimed to have seen the rifle barrel in the fifth or sixth floor of the building, and claimed to have been able to see the man up there. 
Mr. BELIN. Do you know this person's name? 
Mr. SAWYER. I do not.   
Mr. BELIN. Do you know anything about him, what he was wearing? 
Mr. SAWYER. Except that he was--I don't remember what he was wearing. I remember that he was a white man and that he wasn't young and he wasn't old. He was there. That is the only two things that I can remember about him. 
Mr. BELIN. What age would you categorize as young? 
Mr. SAWYER. Around 35 would be my best recollection of it, but it could be a few years either way. 
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember if he was tall or short, or can't you remember anything about him? 
Mr. SAWYER. I can't remember that much about him. I was real hazy about that. 
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember where he said he was standing when he saw the person with the rifle? 
Mr. SAWYER. I didn't go into detail with him except that from the best of my recollection, he was standing where he could have seen him. But there were too many people coming up with questions to go into detail. I got the description and sent him on over to the Sheriff's Office. 
Mr. BELIN. Inspector, do you remember anything else about this person who you say gave you the primary description? 
Mr. SAWYER. No, I do not, except that I did send him with an escort to the Sheriff's Office to give fuller or more complete detail. 
Mr. BELIN. Do you know if he was taken there to see a lineup at the police station? 
Mr. SAWYER. No. 
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever see him again? 
Mr. SAWYER. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. BELIN. And then what happened, sir? 
Mr. BRENNAN. He said, "just a minute." And he had to give some orders or something on the east side of the building on Houston Street. And then he had taken me to, I believe, Mr. Sorrels, an automobile sitting in front of the Texas Book Store. 
Mr. BELIN. And then what happened there? 
Mr. BRENNAN. I related my information and there was a few minutes of discussion, and Mr. Sorrels had taken me then across the street to the sheriff's building. 
Mr. BELIN. Did you describe the man that you saw in the window? 
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes; I believe I did. 

Mr. BELIN. Could you describe the man you saw in the window on the sixth floor? 
Mr. BRENNAN. To my best description, a man in his early thirties, fair complexion, slender but neat, neat slender, possibly 5-foot 10. 
Mr. BELIN. About what weight? 
Mr. BRENNAN. Oh, at--I calculated, I think, from 160 to 170 pounds. 
Mr. BELIN. A white man? 
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes. 
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what kind of clothes he was wearing? 
Mr. BRENNAN. Light colored clothes, more of a khaki color. 
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember the color of his hair? 
Mr. BRENNAN. No. 

then stay away from these threads Mike....

Is that simply too hard a concept for you to comprehend?

That you have nothing to offer on this topic is understood... coming on and showing off your close-mindedness and confusion over the topic helps...

who again?

On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 11:24 AM, Jeff Carter said:

While yes the Chicago Secret Service write that the alleged Hidell money order was found in Kansas City, they are mistaken and seem to have associated the confirmation a money order had been located with their knowledge the search for the money order was taking place in Kansas City. The alleged money order was instead found in Washington. But the Chicago report does confirm that most everyone thought it would be located in Kansas City. John Armstrong was right to point that out.

Here is the report by the Secret Service in Washington, which covers that side of the story. 
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490#relPageId=118&tab=page

Curiously, Holmes is not mentioned. The liaison in Texas, who supplied the money order information and requested the search, is said to be Postal Inspector Stevens from the Fort Worth Postal Inspection Service. Was Holmes' “boss” the inspector in Fort Worth, not in Washington?

Holmes was not involved at all with the PMO... his story of the finding of the stub has never been challenged or corroborated by anyone or anything.

I took the report Jeff links to - as well as all the other source material - and compiled a timeline of the FBI/SS/USPS reports

Since I have been so close to it for so long, please feel free to identify any conflicts within this timeline...   I disagree with you Jeff about the mentioning of it in Kansas being a mistake...

I color coded things to try and keep them straight...

DJ

11 minutes ago, Rick McTague said:

I'm curious just how LHO could have used his pistol to shoot Officer Tippet since the pistol wouldn't fire in the theater - it had a defective firing pin.

Good point... 

or the fact Markham says 1:07

or that he came from the EAST and not the WEST

or that it's more than 10 minutes from N Beckley to 10th and Patton

or the pistol has two different chains of possession and custody

or the Seaport documentation is pure BS

or that REA has no records of the shipment, the pick-up or collection of the shipping amount...

or that witnesses see another police car and 2 more policemen watching the shooting (there were 2 policemen in the car E. Roberts remembers honking its horn)

or that there is no way to connect a bullet to its hull

or that HILL and one other claim the weapon was a .38 automatic

or that Oswald never bought ammo

and that the pistol in evidence is the same type used by most everyone at the Dallas Police Dept. as is the ammo...

But he was shot from the front Chris....

And there were people between your shooter and JFK... if you're talking just past the pole.

??  

On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 10:40 AM, Steve Thomas said:

Three in the magical mystery cigarette package, and two found by the Davis sisters? Three of one brand and two of another? Speculation was that one shot missed.

It seems that THREE is only mentioned that one time by HILL...  except... Rose shows 4 shots entering the body... Shot #5 hit a button and was found in the ambulance if I remember correctly.

  "There are four entrance types of wounds.  No. 1 is 4 3/4  inches from the top of the head and 3 3/4 inches to the right  of the midline.  This measures 3/ x 1/4 inch and is surrounded by a contusion ring.  No powder tattooing is noted at the margins.

"Wound No. 2 is 17 inches from the top of the head on the right chest.  It is 4 inches to the right of the midline, above and slightly medial to the right nipple.  It measures 3/8 x 1/4 of an inch, surrounded by bruising.  There is also a contusion ring.

 "Wound No. 3 is 21 inches from the top of the head, along the anterior lateral side of the right chest and is 6 inches to the right of the midline.  This measures 5/16 x 1/4 of an inch and is surrounded by a contusion ring.

   "Wound No. 4 on the left chest is 20-1/2 inches from the top of the head, 1-1/4 inches to the left of the midline.  The wound measures 3/4 x 3/8 of an inch, is transverse and surrounding this is a 1/4 x 3/4 inch abrasion.

So a couple things about this CSSS....

Testimony shows all those who handled the pistol after supposedly taken from Oswald at the Theater, say it was fully loaded.  This says there were only 4 of the 6 chambers filled.

Mr. HILL. Then I broke the gun open to see how many shells it contained and how many live rounds it had in it. 
Mr. BELIN. How many did you find? 
Mr. HILL. There were six in the chambers of the gun.

While 2 days earlier BARNES gives KELLEY 2 more live .38 rounds yet there is no other notation as to how they are connected and the 11-28 report does not state where the other 2 live .38 shells went...  

Why would KELLEY get 2 then Drain get the other 4 2 days later??

---

The "4 Hulls" relate to the "at the scene" shells supposedly found.... does indeed miss one Steve  There should have been 5 shells...

Mr. BELIN - How many shots did you hear all told?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I heard three shots.

Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Three or four, in the neighborhood. They was fast.
Mr. BELIN. They were fast shots?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; they were fast.

ELBERT AUSTIN, 8317 Fourth Avenue, Dallas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was working on a construction job at the intersection of Tenth and Denver Street, Dallas, Texas. He advised he was a brick mason's helper and was assisting in the construction of an apartment house. Me stated sometime after 1:00 PM he was on a scaffold in front of the aforementioned apartment house when he heard approximately two or three shots

JIMMY EARL BURT, General Delivery stated that on November 22, 1963 he was living at 505 E. 10th Street, Dallas, Texas which is the residence of his father—in—law, DAVID SHAEFER. He and a friend WILLIAM SMITH were sitting in his brother, BILLY BURT's house located at the corner of 9th and Denver Streets, Dallas. It was some time after lunch when they heard two gunshots. He and SMITH immediately ran from the house toward his car, a 1952 two—tone blue Ford which was parked facing south on Denver Street. As they ran from the house they heard four more shots making a total of six.

Mr. BALL. What did you hear at that time?
Mr. CALLAWAY. I heard what sounded to me like five pistol shots.
Mr. BALL. Five pistol shots?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Five shots, yes, sir.

FRANK CIMINO, 403 East Tenth Street, Apartment 7, Dallas, Texas, advised that on November 22, 1963, he was residing in an apartment at 405 East Tenth Street. He Stated that at around 1 p.m. he was at his apartment listening to the radio. He heard four loud noises which sounded like shots and then he heard a women scream

The officer was lying on his side with his head in front of the left front head light of his car. His gun was out of the holster and lying by his side 

Mr. DULLES. Plural? How many did you hear?
Mrs. DAVIS. Just two, they were pretty close together. (both sisters say the same thing)

Mr. BALL. How many?
Mr. GUINYARD. I heard three.

FRANCIS KINNETH, 1425 Caidwell, Dallas, Texas, advised he was employed on a construction job at the intersection of Denver and Tenth Street, Dallas, on the afternoon of November 22, 1963. He advised at approximately 1:00 PM he had heard approximately two or three shots 

L. J. LEWIS, 7616 Hums, Pleasant Grove, Texas, advised he is presently self-employed as a wholesale car dealer. LEWIS advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was on the used car lot of Johnny Reynolds Used Cars together with HAROLD RUSSELL and PAT PATTERSON, during which time they heard approximately three or four gun shots coming from the vicinity of Tenth and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas 

Mr. LIEBELER. How many shots did you hear?
Mr.REYNOLDS. I really have no idea, to be honest with you. I would say four or five or six. I just would have no idea.

Mr. JACK RAY TATUM :  I heard three shots in rapid (illegible)I went right through the intersection, stopped my car and turned to look back. I then saw the officer lying on the street and saw this young white man standing near the front of the squad car. Next. this man with a gun in his hand ran toward the back of the squad car, but instead of running away he stepped into the street and shot the police officer who was lying in the street.

Thanks Jeff...

My confidence level of the "evidence" from that weekend related to Zfilm statements and affidavits is extremely low. 

The 48fps point is simply to illustrate a process that did not require matte work...  just the removal and re-filming of the pieced together final film which allows for the edge printing between sprocket holes to work just fine.

This is where I place the changeover to 48fps:   Frame #1 shows the expected light bleed...  Frame #133 should be similar or at least not look exactly like #135 2 frames later.

I see that the wide turn onto Elm and the switchover to 48fps was accomplished for very specific reasons.  I've posted this composite image a number of times...

Position A is accepted as a location the limo drove thru on its way to z133...  it took over 80 frames from the motorcycle cop - in the bottom image - to make that wide turn.

We see him disappear to the left of Elm looking up the street and then emerges in the exact same position as the limo in Position A.

How does the limo and motorcade get from the turn onto Elm, thru Position A and then to Z133 ?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Station C is on a line drawn along the west curb line of Houston Street in a direct line, and station C is at a point along that line that is in line with where the car would have turned coming around that corner. It is on a line which is an extension of the west curb line of Houston Street.
Mr. DULLES. Where is position A on that chart?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. Position A is here.
Mr. McCLOY. That is before you get to the tree?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; he isn't under the tree yet.
Mr. SPECTER. And what occupant, if any, in the car is position A sighted on for measuring purposes?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. All of the photographs made through the rifle sight that are shown on the exhibit in the lower left-hand corner were sighted on the spot that was simulating the spot where the President was wounded in the neck. The chalk mark is on the back of the coat.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say that position A is the first position at which President Kennedy was in view of the marksman from the southeast window on the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, you mean by that the first position where the marksman saw the rear of the President's stand-in?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct.

Now, of course that is an absurd and incorrect statement.  Roll the limo back a foot and the mark is still easily seen...  Worse yet, Shaneyfelt's testimony reinforces that all the measurements are to the STAND-IN and not to where JFK would have been

Mr. SPECTER. Will you now read the statistical data from that exhibit?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes. Distance from the chalk mark on the back of the stand-in for the President to the station C is 136.6
Distance to rifle in the window is 174.9 feet. The angle to the rifle in the window based on the horizontal is 21b050. The distance to the overpass is 350.9 feet, and the angle to the overpass is 0b012'.  This is on frame 207, Commission Exhibit No. 892.

CE884 - the final evidence...  Frame 207 for JFK has the same info as the stand-in...   174.9' from Rifle to chalkmark.

Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is frame 210 and has been marked as Commission Exhibit No. 893 and represents the 10-inch adjustment for the difference in the height of the car as compared with frame 207.

and here he gives it all away....  the rise/run on Elm is 1'/18.3'.   A 10" drop in vertical height equates to 10"/12" = x/18.3'.   x = 18.3' * .833333 = 15.25'

For Shaneyfelt to make the correct adjustments for the stand-in and the height of the re-creation limo everything must move down Elm 15 feet.  Of course that change makes everything related to frame numbers and distances completely worthless....

Again... it is my theory that the film which Max Phillips sent to Chief Rowley was the in camera original, making its way to Hawkeyeworks on Saturday prior to the 10pm delivery to Dino at the NPIC.  The film was further cleansed for Homer on Sunday...  

The underlying contention here is that the DPD replaced the evidence related to Tippit with the correct pistol and shells...  a modified .38 used by the majority of policemen in the US at the time.

The excess shells attributed to Oswald - and supposedly found hours later in his pockets - carry the tell-tale signs of having been stored in a gun belt...

Something Oswald did not have along with a box of ammo, any evidence he ever purchased ammo or there was ever a pistol and ammo in his possession.

Benavides adds another tidbit which point away from our man Ozzie

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 9:03 PM, Jeff Carter said:

If the Zapruder camera was shifted from RUN to SLOW MOTION during the assassination sequence, the transition from 16fps to 48fps would not have been immediate but ramped (gradual). 

As I understood it Jeff...  the switch is immediate...  and if you add up the time and amount of film... there would have been no need to run off 19' of film to end the roll, at 48fps over 1274 frames of side B would have been used.  divide by 48/18.3 = 2.623 and you get 486 frames.  

12 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Is he maybe lying somewhere in this?

ya think?

This subject - like so many - ought to be put to rest...  The man never had CE-139 in his possession.  C2766 cannot be proven to have ever been removed from Harborside Storage.  Worse yet... Feldsott tells us the shipment with C2766 was in June 1962...  The evidence shows the first retrieval of rifles from THAT order which included C2766 was not until August 1962...

The FBI reports mention 2 other orders with rifles with serial numbers that are close June 18 '62 and March 27 '63... yet there is no record of those order ever coming to Kleins.

The famous TS to FC rifle order change comes in April 62 yet is not delivered until Feb 63? 

So where is the documentation for these two orders?  (btw, Century Arms sends a "2766" to Vermont in June 1962....

Rupp is the only person in this story who sends “Crescent-to-Klein’s” order info to Feldsott in NYC after shipment.  For Feldsott to have order info for a June 18, 1962 shipment, Rupp or some other rifle dealer needs to have completed an order and sent it to Klein’s.  Rupp offers no such evidence while the Century Arms to Empire Wholesale Sporting goods order of June 29, 1962 had a “2766” Carcano in the shipment.  Amazingly none of the 1300 rifles sent from Canada have the letter prefix – whether this is “C”2766 cannot be known.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11277&search=&tab=page#relPageId=2&tab=page

Mr. JENNER - Does your recollection serve you that anybody standing in the courtyard and dry-sighting a rifle would be visible to people who just happened by, or who would be looking out a window on the south side of Magazine Street, or in the home or in the dwelling house to the east of the courtyard?
Mrs. PAINE - He would have been very visible. Would have collected a clutch of small boys.
Mr. JENNER - This was a neighborhood, then, in which there were small children?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.

And as you mention about the suggestive testimonies:

Mr. PAINE - And that is why I think they asked me, it may have been as early as that, whether it was a rifle, "Do you think it could have been a rifle?" I don't remember how it was posed, but I probably answered when it was suggested, it was a rifle, and there they suggested it was a rifle, because they had already learned from Marina that he had had a rifle, and it had been, perhaps, had learned it had been in that blanket.

Mr. PAINE - My impression was that they asked me if I knew what was in this blanket, or he asked me, and then he asked me if it could be a rifle, and I probably responded, yes. It didn't take long once the rifle was suggested as the object to fit this puzzle together, this puzzle of the pieces that 1 had been trying to assemble in the package.

How many times does Ruth say "No"  ?

Mr. JENNER - It was in the open so you could see what went into your car?
Mrs. PAINE - I think so. I certainly then repacked it to go to New Orleans.
Mr. JENNER - Well, I want to stick with this occasion, please.
Mrs. PAINE - All right.
Mr. JENNER - Was there a rifle packed in the back of the car?
Mrs. PAINE - No.
Mr. JENNER - You didn't see any kind of weapon?
Mrs. PAINE - No.
Mr. JENNER - Firearm, rifle, pistol, or otherwise?
Mrs. PAINE - No; I saw nothing of that nature.
Mr. JENNER - Did you drive them to your home?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - Were the materials and things in your station wagon unpacked and placed in your home?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes; immediately.
Mr. JENNER - Did you see that being done, were you present?
Mrs. PAINE - I helped do it; yes.
Mr. JENNER - Did you see any weapon on that occasion?
Mrs. PAINE - No.
Mr. JENNER - Whether a rifle, pistol or--
Mrs. PAINE - No.
Mr. JENNER - Or any covering, any package, that looked as though it might have a weapon, pistol, or firearm?
Mrs. PAINE - No.

Mr. JENNER - Yes, I am interested, and I would like to stick with the duffel-bags for a moment. Was there any appearance as to either duffelbag, which, to you, would indicate some long, slim, hard----
Mrs. PAINE - I assume them to be both full of clothes, very rounded.
Mr. JENNER - I 'don't wish to be persistent, but was there anything that you saw about the duffelbags that lead you at that time to even think for an instant that there was anything long, slim and hard like a pole?
Mrs. PAINE - No.
Mr. JENNER - Or a gun, a rifle?
Mrs. PAINE - No.

Representative BOGGS - Did you see the rifle that he had in the room in your home?
Mrs. PAINE - In the garage, no.
Representative BOGGS - In the garage, you never saw one?
Mrs. PAINE - I never saw that rifle at all until the police showed it to me in the station on the 22d of November.

==============   How about Mikey?  (The man supposedly has photos taken holding the rifle and pistol yet declines to share his little toy with anyone?  If those photos were really taken in March with a copy given to George... is it realistic to accept that no one where the rifle was stored would even be aware it exists?

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever observe or hear prior to the assassination that Lee Oswald had been practicing with a rifle?
Mr. PAINE - No, I didn't know prior to the assassination, we didn't know he had a rifle. I had supposed from my conversation with him back on Neely Street that he would like to have a rifle but I didn't gather that he did.
Mr. LIEBELER - Aside from whether or not you knew that he had a rifle, did you ever hear or observe him practicing with a rifle?
Mr. PAINE - No, I did not.

12 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I know this is outlandish speculation but it is possible that Reid, Baker and Truly were "coached" regarding the official story that had (been) developed.  The evidence indicates that the official story was incorrect.

Kinda like Bledsoe and the bus trip

Not outlandish at all...    Bledsoe could never tell us about Oswald's ARREST shirt (with the torn buttons and torn elbow) before he had gone home and changed.
I don't see that Oswald was on that bus (McWatters even denies it was Oswald) but he had to be for the scenario to work...

Bledsoe, like so many other witnesses if you read thru the testimony, was led into the directions needed.  As were Truly and Baker regarding the lunchroom encounter.

=====

{sigh}

This is not like any other case... the Evidence IS the Conspiracy, not indicative of the initial crime...

Besides...  let's look at what it would take for Oswald to have been in that window at the right time with a rifle ready to fire:  https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/oswald-on-november-22-1963

Cheers

DJ

On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 1:34 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Since Baker was confused about this point all the way to September, and I don't think Truly mentioned it in his testimony, when was the first appearance of the Coke Oswald allegedly was drinking on the second floor?

Did it come from the Fritz notes?

(edit) Sorry... you're right about the Coke being in Fritz's notes... but when exactly where they written?

"Claims 2nd floor Coke when
off came in"

=================

Truly, Baker and Reid testify to the WC on the same day, one after the other... March 25th.

The first appearance seems to be Mrs. Reid's testimony.... and then Baker's recant from Sept

Mr. DULLES. Did he have a coke? 
Mr. TRULY. No, sir. 
Mr. DULLES. No drink? 
Mr. TRULY. No drink at all. Just standing there. 

Mr. BELIN - All right. I see a coke machine off on the left. When you saw Oswald after you got to this doorway inside the lunchroom, had he gone as far as the coke machine?
Mr. BAKER - I didn't notice the coke machine or any item in the room there All I was looking at was the man, and he seemed to be approximately 20 feet down there from me.

When Baker rewrites his statement the day before the WCR is delivered, the man in the lunchroom was already drinking a coke...  Baker can't even get his rewrite correct... and must change what he wrote to jive with the story.

Mrs. REID. Well, I kept walking and I looked up and Oswald was coming in the back door of the office. I met him by the time I passed my desk several feet and I told him, I said, "Oh, the President has been shot, but maybe they didn't hit him." 
He mumbled something to me, I kept walking, he did, too. I didn't pay any attention to what he said because I had no thoughts of anything of him having any connection with it at all because he was very calm. He had gotten a coke and was holding it in his hands and I guess the reason it impressed me seeing him in there I thought it was a little strange that one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time, not that he had done anything wrong. The only time I had seen him in the office was to come and get change and he already had his coke in his hand so he didn't come for change and I dismissed him. I didn't think anything else. 

On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 8:41 AM, James DiEugenio said:

David:

That's something I was not aware of: Holmes never brought the stub or the booklet to his interviews?  

And the WC never asked him for either?

Was it not Belin who was in charge of this aspect?

Like the Baker Affidavit... it was simply ignored.   And once the PMO was in their possession - real or not; authentic or not didn't matter....

Holmes is performing all this SATURDAY MORNING...  yet the information relayed to SAIC Gaiglein who is with Harold Marks and other "employees" of the Facility to retrieve the PMO.

It's not until 8:30 PM that the process of finding the original - or a copy - even begins...  yet by noon that morning, Holmes claims he located the STUB still attached to the BOOK by using the TOTAL AMOUNT of the PMO as determined by Homes' bad addition...(Note: shipping was $1.50 for a total of $19.95 + $1.50 = $21.45... Holmes is even offering the wrong shipping amount yet still arrives at the correct total?)

Between noon and 10pm... nothing appears to have been happening related to the PMO...  or was it?  supposedly, it was ultimately produced at a Postal Center in VA

"Further Chicago investigation shows that the money
order involved has been recovered by Postal Inspec-
tos in Kansas City and forwarded the Assistant
Chief's Office of this Service"  (2nd paragraph Synposis)

"Holmes' notes from 11-22"  

“Now you thumb through those,” I said, “and when you come to Klein’s Sporting Goods, let’s see what it looks like.”     
It wasn’t but a couple of minutes that one of the girls hollered, “Here it is!” So I looked at it and down at the bottom of the ad it said that that particular rifle was such and such amount. But if it could not be carried on a person, such as a pistol, like a shotgun or a rifle, then it was $1.25 or $1.37 extra. Shipping charges were also added, so I added those together, took that figure and called around to all the different stations and the main office where these crews were checking stubs.         
It wasn’t ten minutes that they hollered, “Eureka!” They had the stub!        (this would have been the far right stub with the # , $amount , and date stamp.)
I called it in immediately to the chief on the open line to Washington and said, “I’ve got the money order number that Oswald used to buy this gun, and according to the records up there, they had shipped it to this box that he had rented at the main office in Dallas at that time, which he later closed and opened another at the Terminal Annex because it was closer to the School Book Depository.”

WCR Testimony:
Mr. HOLMES. So in about an hour Postal Inspector McGee of Chicago called back then and said that the correct amount was $21.95---$21.45 excuse me, and that the shipping---they had received this money order on March the 13th, whereas I had been looking for March 20.
So then I passed the information to the men who were looking for this money order stub to show which would designate, which would show the number of the money order, and that is the only way you could find one.
I relayed this information to them and told them to start on the 13th because he could have bought it that morning and that he could have gotten it by airmail that afternoon, so they began to search and within 10 minutes they called back and said they had a money order in that amount issued on, I don't know that I show, but it was that money order in an amount issued at the main post office, which is the same place as this post office box was at that time, box 2915 and the money order had been issued early on the morning of March the 12th, 1963.

Mr. BELIN. All right. Now, you found this postal money order and then what did you do?

Mr. HOLMES. I gave that information to my boss by telephone. He called Washington immediately. Of course this information included the money order number

Mr. BELIN. Anything else now about this money order? Do you have a record of the number of the money order?
Mr. HOLMES. No; I don't.

A mockup. Yes

What Bugs and others dislike is when more evidence which should corroborate, should authentic... Proves the original evidence is as they say in france, merde.  

... Self-corroborating circular evidence which conflicts with standard procedures needs close examination... Whenever evidence is minimized by the likes

Of Bugs et al...  You know they prefer you not look behind the curtain....   Oz must remain elusive.  The rifle evidence is fraught with problems

Just ask Michael Scibor...

23 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

Questions:

I read Oswald was a pack rat and kept everything. Was the purchaser's stub (I'm assuming that would have been given to him) ever found in his possessions (Paine garage, etc)?

Also because of his alleged pack rat status, was the cardboard box that the rifle was shipped in ever found in his possessions?

No on both accounts.

There was no money order or rifle order prior to 11.22.  I cover it all at K&K

On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 8:28 PM, Ron Bulman said:

Oswald Didn't Order A Rifle.  That's why no one in the Post Office said he picked it up over the counter with the notice in his post office box, Because the Rifle Wouldn't Fit In The Box.  It didn't happen.  It's been argued to death previously here and elsewhere.  The Warren Omission story of it has fallen apart.  David is putting further nails in the coffin of this unproven lone nut Theory. 

The evidence shows the postal money order being found 4 different times in 3 different places....

Holmes' story is pure fantasy...   The found the stub in the money order book... But no stub or book is offered....

Before tearing it should have looked like this.... The stub at the right, in the book of other money orders is proof... Holmes claims are not authentic