David Josephs

Basic flaw? Simply question then Tracy... What occurred at that gravesite between 1963 and the exhumation? You can start the chronology in Jan 1964... Show us how, despite there having been a vault of concrete poured as if usual practice, this casket didn't last but a few years. Alex Hoyt, Family Service Manager, Funeral Director Answered Nov 21 2015 Most all (I'd say 99% of) cemeteries require a concrete vault which is set into the grave first. The casket is then lowered into the vault and a heavy lid is placed on top. The vaults are made of varying quality and interior linings. Any vault above a grave liner (the most basic) has a tongue-in-groove type lid - inside which has a thick epoxy-like substance that seals the lid in place. That being said, a casket placed in a vault in dry conditions could easily last a century without noticeable wear. Many factors come into play - wood caskets will eventually rot, metal caskets will eventually rust. What do you suppose it was that cracked the vault and exposed the corpse inside the casket??? When do you think that happened? Do you see it as an impossibility that "something" could have happened to that body during that time? Is it beyond the CIA or FBI to CYA in this situation? Tracy, if this was the one and only thing supporting H&L we'd have a discussion... it's not. When you finally come to grips with 1000 pages and tens of thousands of source documents supporting H&L... then add in first person testimony that you and others can only frown at and claim "mistakes"... You understanding or not this is no skin off my nose... Bernie pretending to have contributed here in some way remains the real joke. The little mouse in the corner yelling "ME TOO" so as to maybe get some of the credit ?? IDK. And by far the worst of all is this belief that something like this could not have happened... like thinking political assassination doesn't occur in the USA... Thank goodness for there being at least 2 sides to every story... you guys can post your dribble forever and not worry about ever being close to the truth...

Stick it Tracy.... Bernie can't help but throwing in barbs even when not an ounce of the work here is his... At least you do the work.... BM remains a waste of breath, time and effort.

My pleasure Pat... Mr. BAKER - We had to walk up another flight of stairs to get up to the top floor.Mr. BELIN - To get up to the roof?Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.Mr. BELIN - When you got off on the seventh floor or the top floor--Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.Mr. BELIN - Did you notice whether or not the other elevator was there?Mr. BAKER - No, sir; I didn't.Mr. BELIN - You didn't notice. You got off the east elevator and then what did you do?Mr. BAKER - We walked up the flight of stairs to the top.Mr. BELIN - To the top. What did you do when you got to the top?Mr. BAKER - We went out on the roof. Mr. BAKER - At that time I went on back. Mr. Truly was standing over here on this northwest corner and we descended on the stairs there.Mr. BELIN - You went from the stairs to the roof to where, to the top floor of the building?Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got to the top floor of the building?Mr. BAKER - We walked on down one more flight of stairs and then we caught the same elevator back down.Mr. DULLES - The top floor was the seventh floor, is it not?Mr. BAKER - Well, you have one flight of stairs going from the top floor on up.Mr. DULLES - Yes.Mr. BAKER - And then we caught the elevator back down, the same elevator that we took up.Mr. BELIN - When you referred to one flight of stairs, are you referring to the flight of stairs from the roof to the top floor that you took or the flight of stairs from the top floor to the next to the top floor?Mr. BAKER - Well, there are two flights of stairs there. The one from the roof down to the top floor and then there is another one there. Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, I am going to hand you what the court reporter, what the Commission reporter, has marked as Exhibit 507 which purports to be a diagram of the seventh floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building and on that diagram you will see at the top the marks of two elevators and then, what looks to be the south, a stairway marked "Ladder to the roof."Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not this stairway marked "Ladder to the roof" is the stairway that you took to go to the roof?Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; it would be. Mr. TRULY. We ran up a little stairway that leads out through a little penthouse on to the roof. Mr. BELIN. What did you do on the roof? Mr. TRULY. We ran immediately to the west side of the building. There is a wall around the building that you cannot see over without getting your foot between the mortar of the stones and, or some such toehold. We did that and looked over the ground and the railroad tracks below. There we saw many officers and a lot of spectators, people running up and down. Mr. BELIN. Did the officer say to you why he wanted to go up to the roof? Mr. TRULY. No. At that time, he didn't. Mr. BELIN. Did he ever prior to meeting you again on March 20th tell you why he wanted to go on the roof? Mr. TRULY. No, sir. Mr. BELIN. Where did you think the shots came from? Mr. TRULY. I thought the shots came from the vicinity of the railroad or the WPA project, behind the WPA project west of the building. Mr. BELIN. Did you have any conversation with the officer that you can remember? About where you thought the shots came from? Mr. TRULY. Yes. When--some time in the course, I believe, after we reached the roof, the officer looked down over the boxcars and the railroad tracks and the crowd below. Then he looked around the edge of the roof for any evidence of anybody being there. And then looked up at the runways and the big sign on the-roof.He saw nothing.He came over. And some time about then I said, "Officer, I think"--let's back up.I believe the officer told me as we walked down into the seventh floor, "Be careful, this man will blow your head off."And I told the officer that I didn't feel like the shots came from the building.I said, "I think we are wasting our time up here," or words to that effect, "I don't believe these shots came from the building."

Jerry Vale is back... Hmmm, let's see. Spy stuff and your understanding remains mutually exclusive BM.... You simply aint gonna learn what you don't wanna know... la--la--la.... LMAO.... if anyone would know the smell of a rotting cultish fantasy Bernie, each time you take the stage... Stay with the music you pathetic little lost boy...if you suck as bad at that as you do this, that rotting smell of your "offerings" are surely horrendous by now... Now run back to your little sandbox, ROKC, and get a few expletives and zingers from the boys... we know you and original thought are also mutually exclusive... bu-bye now...

This old image matches the newer one for detail Pat... Hope it helps DJ

From that notebook we get the name JAMES MALLEY... From a reading of MALLEY's testimony... He was in charge of the FBI investigation despite them having sent Rogge and Thompson... Malley in control of evidence - given the work of the other FBI agents in Dallas - seems to imply duplicity again... J. Edgar Hoover's testimony does not include the name James MALLEY while Hosty is of course mentioned numerous times FWIW Mr. MCDONALD. Mr. Malley, regarding Rogge and Thompson, you just said that they worked closely with you on the case. Mr. MALLEY. They did in the early stages. They were the two individuals who were sent to Dallas to write the first two memorandums that I told you about Mr. MALLEY. As far as the actual assassination is concerned, it was definitely in the General Investigative Division. When you say who is responsible, are you referring to what section it was being handled and what supervisor was primarily responsible? Mr. MCDONALD. Which person was primarily responsible at the top to begin with? Mr. MALLEY. Well, because of what happened when I got back from Dallas I would say that I had to be. Mr. McDONALD. You were asking for additional agent personnel, and as reflected in these memos, at the top level, at least there was an opinion being formed that the case essentially was wrapped up. Mr. MALLEY. I won't agree with you because I don't know what they were doing in Washington. I know where I was and I know what had been done, and I think you may be interpreting remarks about wanting to get something out to the public to let them know what had been developed up to that time as a misinterpretation of what the Bureau intended to do later. Mr. McDONALD. I will quote one more memorandum to you, and that is dated 29 November 1963, which is found in the Senate Intelligence Committee's, the Church Committee's, Book 5 Report on page 34. In it, the memorandum is by Mr. Hoover, recounting a telephone conversation he had that day with President Johnson. And he says, "I advised the President that we hoped to have the investigation wrapped up today but probably won't have it before the first of the week, as another angle had developed. Again we are getting an example of at the top level the case being in a sense completed. Now, again, from your Dallas perspective does this jibe with what you were doing in Dallas? Mr. MALLEY. Well, again, I say that when people say that they hoped to have it completed and so on, I don't think for a minute they were talking about having every facet fully and exhaustively investigated. I think what they are saying is that, based on the information that was available at that time, the essential facts of the investigation had been developed. It doesn't mean it was over by any means.

Funny thing Tracy... there is an alternate explanation for virtually every human occurrence in known history... Depends on who is telling the story and which history is to be "allowed". Amazing you don't already know this... ?? In the world of spycraft one expects to see multiple reasonable explanation for the same activity... Again Tracy, have you literally learned nothing about the world of intelligence and how it works? Here Tracy, this series runs from the American Revolution to today - and then there's this https://fas.org/irp/offdocs/int022.html The Evolution of the U.S. Intelligence Community-An Historical Overview or Van Deman and his efforts to bring about the first military intelligence agency... Tracy - you and a handful remain so tunnel-visioned in your need to support Parker's "anti" H&L-thesis cause H&L in reality destroys his arguments... we get it. What continues to amaze is how little you seem to know about everything else that leads to these kinds of plans in the midst of the height of the Cold War. You remain AMAZED at the plan of human trying to do evil to each other Amazing and Pathetic all at the same time...

The southern boy who came to NY had a southern accent... The boy who returned from NY in 1954 no longer had the accent and never redeveloped it during the remaining years of his life in the south. Those who know a thing or two say English was this man's 2nd language... FWIW.

Definitely

Joe, I believe this is during some translation... Sorry that I don't know the other two in the room... Larry? You'll find that all Russian to English and back again was done by friendly members of the Dallas White Russian Community.... (no, not lovers of the drink.. lol) I sometimes wonder if those translation had ever been checked for accuracy... DJ

You're welcome Larry.... That's Gregory's father next to Marina... Peter Paul Gregory is father to Paul Roderick Gregory http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/magazine/lee-harvey-oswald-was-my-friend.html About a week later, my father and I drove 10 minutes from our house to Lee and Marina Oswald’s new home, a cramped one-bedroom duplex near the Montgomery Ward building. Their yard had a hardscrabble lawn burned yellow by the Texas summer sun, and the front door stood on a little porch, up a single concrete step. My father was taken by Marina. She was an engaging young woman who had already overcome a great deal — she was reared in a war-ravaged St. Petersburg (then Leningrad) littered with unmarked graves — and he wanted to help her. He asked Marina if she would offer me Russian lessons. Before we even set a fee, Marina agreed to see me twice a week. She seemed happy for the company. The next Tuesday, at around 6 p.m., Marina invited me in for my first lesson. The Oswald living room was extraordinarily bare; there was a shabby sofa and chair and a worn coffee table where a copy of Time magazine featuring John F. Kennedy as its Man of the Year was prominently displayed

From the Baylor Collection

I think that very likely there was also a "VALLEE" project as well...I further think that the US Intel services killing Castro was a fools errand... he had more people inside the CIA/FBI/ONI/MID telling him what was up than we care to admit. I agree 100% - it seems a by-product of the infiltration job being done... Make him look, act and quack like a duck so what a DUCK needs to be framed for killing JFK, there was at least one in every city... The CIA/FBI animosity was terrible, especially at the top. Do you truly believe the Kennedy brothers wanted or even needed Castro dead beyond nodding to the HAWKS that he/they were doing something?

I missed this post from a month ago. It's good to see you here again, Lance. Your above post closely aligns with my thinking. A little lost in translation is the fact LHO and others of his FBI infiltration level would and could be used for virtually anything. as we surmise the majority of evidence was created to implicate Oswald... Doesn't it appear to anyone that this man was the Canary in the coal mine? When the canary smells the poison and dies... would you say it too was in on the plot? of course not. Harvey, Vallee, and a handful of others were canaries and took the heat for those who actually dig the mine... FWIW

Yet again... Pathetic. That's the best you got ? Albert Jenner was being, what.... truthful? Jenner and Leibeler were looking out for the interests of honesty and historical accuracy... How many Brooklyn Bridges in swamp land in FL do you own by now ??? Let's see: Castle, Glidden, Goutier, Herd, King, Malden, Rubenstein and Sawchuck are all at Santa Ana with one Oswald while the other men are at El Toro with the other... also at separate times (Gorsky) And you think this remains about opinions... Pathetic Tracy... and why isn't it that you take this H&L hate show to the source over at ROKC or whatever cesspool he's calling it now? That way you can catch up on the nicknames, use foul language freely, and never - ever have to worry about actual evidence or the accurate interpretation there of..... Sounds like the perfect place for you... your feeble presentation here is only good for laughs... they reach around and bend over backward to show you the love at ROKC... Jenner wanted to get it accurately... you're a riot!

Maybe, just maybe Mr. Walton will someday stop heaping his judgments and decisions on the rest of us and JUST LEAVE. Nobody asked you to comment, nobody asked you anything related to H&L... you came here all on your own and now, since you don't like the sand in this little box, you need to disparage it and insult everyone who disagrees with you? No, you can't speak for Jim or to the evidence offered in H&L... but you sure can critique that which you have no real understanding. As for YOUR respect in me... you're kidding right? I suffer fools like you who can hear yet refuse to listen or think. Thankfully you are neither a moderator or the voice of anyone's reason here. I appreciate you were able to read and get what you could from my other work... What amazes me most about you and this reaction is it feels as if you have skin in the game here... Humans do all sorts of strange things... add in unlimited money and power and the Cold War setting and things like Northwoods get attempted. I'm sorry this causes such a problem for you Michael... you seem to have generally quality additions to conversations - except here. Why does H&L bother you so much? What is it you think this suggests Michael? Why would there need to be omissions and alterations when there are obviously two complete sets of people who both knew a different Oswald. And then, when the FBI did finally follow up, they found the wrong men to ask.... (if you read the Mexico work you'll remember they found virtually every other person who ever took a bus those 5 days, just not Oswald.) Maybe Mike, if you'd stop railing against the wind here and take a serious look at the key elements of the duality... One man was large, a fighter, not too bright and like Nagell like the Asian ladies.... the other was small, political, and an FBI infiltrator. This will be the last I attempt this with you Mike. Of all those here you seem most able to see what is being said and follow the evidence a bit more than just pronouncing judgment... yet if you have concluded this a waste of your time.... Don't let the thread's door hit you in the @$$ on the say out...

By now I am sure you are familiar with my POV on the film(s) that night. The Phillips memo is pretty hard to misconstrue Zapruder had a "best copy" which he kept and ultimately gives to LIFE as well... If Zap has original & 1 copy, Sorrels has 2 copies and "The third print in forwarded" - there's a missing copy now... Zap didn't have Sorrels hold HIS best copy... there's a 4th copy floating around and I believe we are talking about the Rowley film... (Again Chris - didn't DeLoach and/or the FBI Sr. Staff claim to see a zfilm between 2-4am Fri/Sat?) My only point is that the film Dino gets is already altered... not as thoroughly as the Homer film the next night, but altered. As you mentioned, how many 8mm versions of the film include side A versus the 16mm copies you saw? The three copies 0185, 6, & 7 basically discards the side A and pre-motorcade frames... .... "Zap has the "master" film(quotes in original). and "Disregard personal scenes" either means all of side A is attached or the Hesters in DP test footage... thoughts? The disappearance in the COE of this film and the creation of CE399 at the hands of Chief Rowley are but two of the most obvious examples of how the SS Chief influenced the evidence. When we add in the creation of the Postal Money Order and the finding of it 4 different times.... https://statick2k-5f2f.kxcdn.com/images/pdf/JosephsRiflePart1.pdf it becomes clear how much the SS was involved in the creation/alteration of evidence... DJ The quality of the National Archives' photographic copy of this hand written report is so poor that many of its words cannot be made out in a scanned copy. Consequently, we have provided below a typed copy ] CD - 87 Folder 1 CO2 34030 11/22 9:55 To: Chief Rowley From: Max D. Phillips Subject: 8mm movie film showing President Kennedy being shot Enclosed is an 8mm movie film taken by Mr. A. Zapruder, 501 Elm St., Dallas Texas (RI8-6071) Mr.. Zapruder was photographing the President at the instant he was shot. According to Mr. Zapruder, the position of the assassin was behind Mr. Zapruder. Note: Disregard personnel scenes shown on Mr. Zapruder’s film.. Mr. Zapruder is in custody of the "master" film. Two prints were given to SAIC Sorrels, this date. The third print is forwarded. Max D. Phillips Special Agent - PRS

Pathetic Tracy... Desperate and pathetic. You'll hang your hat on some article about riots? That's you're big debunk against a first hand eye witness... Again... Pathetic.

This is definitely worth a read if you have not... But I am having a tough time finding Whitaker....

What's to misrepresent? FBI says 200 days of school from 3/23/53 to 1/12/54 School record shows 200 days of school from 3/23/53 to 1/12/54 Oswald, in May 1952 was 5'4" & 115lbs. The accounting of weekdays below shows only 123 possible school days for that child - or any child - to attend in that period. Youth House is also missing entirely... Nothing shown below is misrepresented... they are the actual FBI offered records and they were created after the fact to jive with the FBI reports. The FBI got it very wrong and changed a record that would never reflect that information that way... there are not over 120 school days from March 1953 until June 1953... Sorry Tracy... it seems you and yours are the ones misrepresenting the original evidence and the ease of using addition to prove how wrong it is...

IOW - we know the shots came from the TSBD 6th floor window so there could not be shots from anywhere else... Your assumption of proof remains tightly in place so Parker doesn't have to trash years of work since H&L is antithesis to his presentation. Your argument is like Oswald not being at Odio's cause the FBI says he was in Mexico.... so it's not possible. Tautological arguments are useless here Tracy... "it isn't because it can't be" Pathetic. They're poor arguments even for you Tracy...

This just shows how little you know about H&L, John Armstrong and the entire process involved. Instead of talking out of the side of your @$$ Mr. P, maybe learn something first... then butcher it in your posts... Your and GP's only response to McBride is "He's wrong"... While the rest of us dive deeper, you and yours proclaim victory, do your little dance and forget that you're missing 99% of the evidence. You can rant about the "riots" ... but you simply cannot fathom the connection between proving H&L false and GP's published work... if JA is correct, GP is S.O.L. Therefore, the non-stop minion attacks. The last thing John needed to do was publish a book - which he did at his expense... or offer the results of 10 years of Archive visits... Your repetitive vitriolic posts demeaning the work of the man is tiresome at best... learn to count Tracy. Learn what "CONSPIRACY" looks like ....

Except Lee Oswald's "Preference" and "Recommended" Duty assignment was as an Aircraft Maintenance and Repairman... not an air traffic controller which was a completely different class and course of education... Also in the "Duties performed" box... none of that indicates the aptitude or intelligence needed to be a radar operator... Also, one of the key qualification of a 6741: Avn Electronics Operator is perfect hearing.... Lee, having the mastoid operation and poor hearing in the left ear would never be considered for that job... this brings to bear the Alan Felde timeline and its conflict with the Marines timeline given to the WC....

John Ely found there were two distinct sets of people who knew one or the other Oswald... that there were records indicating one of them being in one place while the other was somewhere else, concurrently. That he encountered a long list of Marines who were supposedly stationed with "LEE" who were not mentioned by a single person within "Harvey's" bio... that these men in fact were involved with a much larger, non-political, fighter/drinker who bore little resemblance in detail to Harvey. I'll continue to chalk this up to your inability to add 2 and 2 without arriving at some bizarre, unrelated conclusion about the origins of the numbers instead of dealing with the core inability to add.... Here you go Tracy... once again please show us how 200 days of school fits into the 123 available from the 210 possible without including the entire summer and the entire Youth House stay.... this should be simple for someone with your abilities... or you can whine about it some more, change the subject and still look as confused and lost as ever