David Josephs

Yet again... Pathetic. That's the best you got ? Albert Jenner was being, what.... truthful? Jenner and Leibeler were looking out for the interests of honesty and historical accuracy... How many Brooklyn Bridges in swamp land in FL do you own by now ??? Let's see: Castle, Glidden, Goutier, Herd, King, Malden, Rubenstein and Sawchuck are all at Santa Ana with one Oswald while the other men are at El Toro with the other... also at separate times (Gorsky) And you think this remains about opinions... Pathetic Tracy... and why isn't it that you take this H&L hate show to the source over at ROKC or whatever cesspool he's calling it now? That way you can catch up on the nicknames, use foul language freely, and never - ever have to worry about actual evidence or the accurate interpretation there of..... Sounds like the perfect place for you... your feeble presentation here is only good for laughs... they reach around and bend over backward to show you the love at ROKC... Jenner wanted to get it accurately... you're a riot!

Maybe, just maybe Mr. Walton will someday stop heaping his judgments and decisions on the rest of us and JUST LEAVE. Nobody asked you to comment, nobody asked you anything related to H&L... you came here all on your own and now, since you don't like the sand in this little box, you need to disparage it and insult everyone who disagrees with you? No, you can't speak for Jim or to the evidence offered in H&L... but you sure can critique that which you have no real understanding. As for YOUR respect in me... you're kidding right? I suffer fools like you who can hear yet refuse to listen or think. Thankfully you are neither a moderator or the voice of anyone's reason here. I appreciate you were able to read and get what you could from my other work... What amazes me most about you and this reaction is it feels as if you have skin in the game here... Humans do all sorts of strange things... add in unlimited money and power and the Cold War setting and things like Northwoods get attempted. I'm sorry this causes such a problem for you Michael... you seem to have generally quality additions to conversations - except here. Why does H&L bother you so much? What is it you think this suggests Michael? Why would there need to be omissions and alterations when there are obviously two complete sets of people who both knew a different Oswald. And then, when the FBI did finally follow up, they found the wrong men to ask.... (if you read the Mexico work you'll remember they found virtually every other person who ever took a bus those 5 days, just not Oswald.) Maybe Mike, if you'd stop railing against the wind here and take a serious look at the key elements of the duality... One man was large, a fighter, not too bright and like Nagell like the Asian ladies.... the other was small, political, and an FBI infiltrator. This will be the last I attempt this with you Mike. Of all those here you seem most able to see what is being said and follow the evidence a bit more than just pronouncing judgment... yet if you have concluded this a waste of your time.... Don't let the thread's door hit you in the @$$ on the say out...

By now I am sure you are familiar with my POV on the film(s) that night. The Phillips memo is pretty hard to misconstrue Zapruder had a "best copy" which he kept and ultimately gives to LIFE as well... If Zap has original & 1 copy, Sorrels has 2 copies and "The third print in forwarded" - there's a missing copy now... Zap didn't have Sorrels hold HIS best copy... there's a 4th copy floating around and I believe we are talking about the Rowley film... (Again Chris - didn't DeLoach and/or the FBI Sr. Staff claim to see a zfilm between 2-4am Fri/Sat?) My only point is that the film Dino gets is already altered... not as thoroughly as the Homer film the next night, but altered. As you mentioned, how many 8mm versions of the film include side A versus the 16mm copies you saw? The three copies 0185, 6, & 7 basically discards the side A and pre-motorcade frames... .... "Zap has the "master" film(quotes in original). and "Disregard personal scenes" either means all of side A is attached or the Hesters in DP test footage... thoughts? The disappearance in the COE of this film and the creation of CE399 at the hands of Chief Rowley are but two of the most obvious examples of how the SS Chief influenced the evidence. When we add in the creation of the Postal Money Order and the finding of it 4 different times.... https://statick2k-5f2f.kxcdn.com/images/pdf/JosephsRiflePart1.pdf it becomes clear how much the SS was involved in the creation/alteration of evidence... DJ The quality of the National Archives' photographic copy of this hand written report is so poor that many of its words cannot be made out in a scanned copy. Consequently, we have provided below a typed copy ] CD - 87 Folder 1 CO2 34030 11/22 9:55 To: Chief Rowley From: Max D. Phillips Subject: 8mm movie film showing President Kennedy being shot Enclosed is an 8mm movie film taken by Mr. A. Zapruder, 501 Elm St., Dallas Texas (RI8-6071) Mr.. Zapruder was photographing the President at the instant he was shot. According to Mr. Zapruder, the position of the assassin was behind Mr. Zapruder. Note: Disregard personnel scenes shown on Mr. Zapruder’s film.. Mr. Zapruder is in custody of the "master" film. Two prints were given to SAIC Sorrels, this date. The third print is forwarded. Max D. Phillips Special Agent - PRS

Pathetic Tracy... Desperate and pathetic. You'll hang your hat on some article about riots? That's you're big debunk against a first hand eye witness... Again... Pathetic.

This is definitely worth a read if you have not... But I am having a tough time finding Whitaker....

What's to misrepresent? FBI says 200 days of school from 3/23/53 to 1/12/54 School record shows 200 days of school from 3/23/53 to 1/12/54 Oswald, in May 1952 was 5'4" & 115lbs. The accounting of weekdays below shows only 123 possible school days for that child - or any child - to attend in that period. Youth House is also missing entirely... Nothing shown below is misrepresented... they are the actual FBI offered records and they were created after the fact to jive with the FBI reports. The FBI got it very wrong and changed a record that would never reflect that information that way... there are not over 120 school days from March 1953 until June 1953... Sorry Tracy... it seems you and yours are the ones misrepresenting the original evidence and the ease of using addition to prove how wrong it is...

IOW - we know the shots came from the TSBD 6th floor window so there could not be shots from anywhere else... Your assumption of proof remains tightly in place so Parker doesn't have to trash years of work since H&L is antithesis to his presentation. Your argument is like Oswald not being at Odio's cause the FBI says he was in Mexico.... so it's not possible. Tautological arguments are useless here Tracy... "it isn't because it can't be" Pathetic. They're poor arguments even for you Tracy...

This just shows how little you know about H&L, John Armstrong and the entire process involved. Instead of talking out of the side of your @$$ Mr. P, maybe learn something first... then butcher it in your posts... Your and GP's only response to McBride is "He's wrong"... While the rest of us dive deeper, you and yours proclaim victory, do your little dance and forget that you're missing 99% of the evidence. You can rant about the "riots" ... but you simply cannot fathom the connection between proving H&L false and GP's published work... if JA is correct, GP is S.O.L. Therefore, the non-stop minion attacks. The last thing John needed to do was publish a book - which he did at his expense... or offer the results of 10 years of Archive visits... Your repetitive vitriolic posts demeaning the work of the man is tiresome at best... learn to count Tracy. Learn what "CONSPIRACY" looks like ....

Except Lee Oswald's "Preference" and "Recommended" Duty assignment was as an Aircraft Maintenance and Repairman... not an air traffic controller which was a completely different class and course of education... Also in the "Duties performed" box... none of that indicates the aptitude or intelligence needed to be a radar operator... Also, one of the key qualification of a 6741: Avn Electronics Operator is perfect hearing.... Lee, having the mastoid operation and poor hearing in the left ear would never be considered for that job... this brings to bear the Alan Felde timeline and its conflict with the Marines timeline given to the WC....

John Ely found there were two distinct sets of people who knew one or the other Oswald... that there were records indicating one of them being in one place while the other was somewhere else, concurrently. That he encountered a long list of Marines who were supposedly stationed with "LEE" who were not mentioned by a single person within "Harvey's" bio... that these men in fact were involved with a much larger, non-political, fighter/drinker who bore little resemblance in detail to Harvey. I'll continue to chalk this up to your inability to add 2 and 2 without arriving at some bizarre, unrelated conclusion about the origins of the numbers instead of dealing with the core inability to add.... Here you go Tracy... once again please show us how 200 days of school fits into the 123 available from the 210 possible without including the entire summer and the entire Youth House stay.... this should be simple for someone with your abilities... or you can whine about it some more, change the subject and still look as confused and lost as ever

Michael... Sidestepping the question is very telling. You might want to read the book and follow the evidence before you come to conclusions and present them as if you're someone who gave serious time and effort to the project.... Reading the posts of those who can't be bothered by doing the work necessary has become a complete waste of time... Making your mind up with a cursory reading at best and a lack of exposure to 90% of the work... obviously gives you the credibility necessary to sway understanding of the H&L history. That you continue to laugh off the reality of history just goes to show the complete lack of depth to your understanding of the world around you. The only humorous thing that remains is the trio of acolytes here trying so hard to explain away the obvious with every possible excuse imaginable. Maybe instead of taking up so much time and brain power with denials... you could take a few weeks/months and read the work, follow the footnotes and then come back here and talk to us from a position of knowledge instead of conjecture... The manner in which you deny this harkens back to how the WCR, Blakey and the HSCA and then the ARRB whitewashed the entire event thru "official" investigation. It's shameful the way you can look at simple evidence and then dance the denier dance cause it doesn't fit your version of the story... The worst remains the vitriolic manner in which you and the other go about trying to discredit the work of another, while your own body of published work remains woefully inadequate. The only thing H&L does directly is render Parker's conclusions about Oswald inaccurate... he and you and the others have no choice but to continue to the fight... Other than it flying in the face of Parker's work... what is your specific problem with the evidence and the work of John Ely discovering the amazing duality of existence when compiling his bio? What skin do you have in this discussion Michael.... or you just being contrary for the fun of it?

No doubt Tracy... you're there whenever a H&L evidence-less supporter vomits up verbal diarrhea from a most fertile mind with a scenario born from ignorance of the topic... Let me see... doesn't the evidence which proves H&L basically render your work and Parker's books and research, moot and meaningless? H&L cannot exist in the Parker world - not because of the evidence but of the implications it has on his own work... that and exposing the inability of the detractors to add correctly. Can't have that now can we? You and the other minions are tireless and dedicated - I give you that!

Have you read the book or not Michael? Visited the Baylor Poage site and see any one of the notebooks there? Browse thru the CD which comes with the book containing hundreds of exhibits? Just wondering how much actual work with the evidence and the book itself you have... versus just being another add-on critic assuming that knowing 1/100th of the info gives you carte blanche to attack the entire thing...

Michael.... You can stop the childish tactic of third person discussion... I'm right here and you can speak to me directly... It's intellectual wannabe's like yourself who believe they can sum up my or anyone's POV from the comfort of your home screen... I quoted Zinn as he helps identify the sheep like you. Those patriotic zealots who think the USA is the home of the free and the brave.... and our foreign policy is for the benefit of the rest of the world If you'd like to whistle thru life believing all is as it seems... and there are no conspiracies... and the rich, powerful Military Industrial Complex is on YOUR side.... what are you doing on a conspiracy forum discussing the JFK case 50+ years after the fact?

Sandy - Tracy offers no answers. His only hope is to plant reasonable doubt and pray it spreads. There are hundreds of point of evidence which prove the existence of the two men. Just as there are hundreds if not thousand of points of evidence proving Oswald innocent of both crimes he was accused of... As you so back-handedly mention, I've written quite a bit that is published and much more in the forums... I spent 2 years with Armstrong going thru each footnote and source in his book.... some are speculative... the overwhelming majority is not. YOU did not sit with these people and interview them... did you? YOU did not spend 10 years at the Archives acquiring documents not offered anywhere else - did you? What YOU are doing is trying to climb on his shoulders and kick him in the face in the process because you entirely too preoccupied with rebuttal to offer anything original or new. Take a bit of your own medical Tracy. Showing you can't add to 123, 200 or 210 helps your cause... how? shows you should be taken seriously... why? simply because you take a contrary position on something you barely cover 10% of? Cherry-picking a few items and hoping they extend to every item is wishful thinking but not helping your credibility much. Reading reports about Oswald's time in Ping Tung and then claiming he never went doesn't change the FACTS... he went while Lee Oswald was treated for STD... I am truly not concerned about the level of seriousness others see in me... Read what I write, see how I present it and support it and make your own decisions.... There remains one simple fact... the 5'11" 150-165lb Lee Oswald was not the same person as the 5'9" 135lb Harvey Oswald killed by Ruby.

You see Tracy... everything that conflicts with your conclusion is branded a mistake... They read the chart wrong, they can't add, other people looked at it and you're not a doctor.... WAKE UP! or at least pull your head out long enough to think for yourself for a minute.... Do you see a 3rd molar there? Do you see the records showing the 3rd molars and a 5th tooth are missing? Do you see the Oct 81 report showing a full set of teeth except for the one extracted tooth...? except that tooth was already gone when he entered the marines.... and shows markings as if it was being described BEFORE they realized it needed not to be there in the first place... Ooops... What part of "Missing Teeth and Existing Restorations" from 1956/57 do you not understand? ------------------------ Dude... you wanna bury your head in the sand or some other friendly dark place have at it... you point to a report and proclaim "see we're right".... and then act the deaf/dumb/blind fool when asked to consider the information offered... "The Marine's medical reports are all wrong"... remains you and Parker's only rebuttal to the prima fascia evidence of the existence of two men known as Lee Harvey Oswald.... he wasn't in Ping Tung- cause the reports are wrong; he wasn't treated for an STD in Atsugi- cause the reports are wrong; He attended 200 days of school during a period with only 123 available school days- the reports must be wrong... and on and on... and of course this reply to Ely's work on the Oswald bio is... wait for it..... a misinterpreted report... your rebuttals have descended from plain crappy to pathetically weak and desperate. Luckily, those reading have their own minds and can go to the sources and find out for themselves... Difference here being you want people to believe you and Parker's take on the evidence... We simply want people to look at the evidence themselves. You're pitching an alternate reality while I post the evidence.... btw - can you prove Oswald's grave was not disturbed... I seem to remember damage not usually found so soon after a burial... no?

Do you or do you not see 3 molars when the marine records show they are gone..? I'm not questioning the report nor playing doctor.... Lee goes into the Marines... Harvey gets buried... kinda simple even for you Tracy.

Again... well after the limo leaves DP

To each his own Keyvan.... Please notice this is well before that photo film frame was taken... Zapruder and Sitzman are already walking away from the column... When the limo gets to the overpass, we have Z486.... so yes Zapruder of course kept filming... but the photo at the bottom of your post is not seconds after the shooting... it's well afterward. I've been looking at what you're posting for a long time... here is Altgens #8 taken within minutes of 12:30... they had not yet even reached the pergola... I believe you're mistaken about a pergola shooter... there is simply little if any evidence other than the subjective view of someone interpreting the evidence. Do me a favor Keyvan... timestamp the image at the bottom of your post... tell me exactly where it's from please.... Thanks DJ

The point, the hair does not cover the mastoid operation scar... it's behind the ear and down a little. Again Tracy, Rose noted a tiny scratch treated with iodine at the left mastoid... but no operation scar... Rose was not Humes Tracy... Rose was a real doctor who knew what he was doing in an autopsy. Just read the Tippit and Oswald autopsies for how JFK's SHOULD have gone.... And you still cannot fit 200 days of school into 123 days available.... no misreading on your part is necessary

Hey there Keyvan... First off I agree there is evidence - much more than a jiggle - that a shot or shots were fired after 313... the question is whether or not the FBI/SS created this last shot to account for 3 shots and 3 hits.... or whether it actually existed. Since there is no room to place a third shot before the 1st or between the 1st and 2nd and make it sound like BAM,,, Bam-Bam... a third shot was placed 4 feet from station 5+00 or 35 feet further down Elm than z313... I wrote a paper on the shot(s) after 313 which was found to be the 2nd shot up until May 1964. You should know though that a shot at 313 would not produce a jiggle at 313/314... the timing is too fast... sound travels slower than the bullets. but if you're interested in a shot after z313: Warren Commission Document (WCD) 298: How the Bureau Made a Fourth Shot Beyond Z 313 Disappear https://statick2k-5f2f.kxcdn.com/images/pdf/JosephsFBIZ313.pdf "The Jimmy Darnell film shows a frame with two assassins right after the assassination and before Zapruder and Sitzman got off the pedestal they were standing on" - To me it appears Zapruder and Sitzman are no longer on the pedestal in this photo, they are back in the pergola. Most people aren't aware of WCD298... just doing my part to spread the word

You gonna believe your eyes or what people tell you...? There are 3 molars in each corner of his mouth, the boy going into the Marines only had 2... You gonna tell us now that molars grow back after death? Your rebuttal here Tracy is terribly weak... The teeth are not the same, the autopsy doc does not note a single one of the scars the Marines noted, nor does he have the scar from the pistol discharge thru near his elbow.... which happened to Lee. Your "LOCK" evidence, this exhumation report, actually proves our point and contradicts yours... The teeth cannot lie.

Not so much Tracy... Why do the Marines claim this man had 5 missing teeth yet the exhumation claims only 1, and are supported by the photos... Shouldn't there only be 2 molars per side if this is the same person as the Lee Oswald the entering Marine?

The mastoid is not under the hairline Tracy... nor does Oswald have hair there... Rose noted the "scratch" and recent antiseptic on the left mastoid muscle... so he certainly looked at that area... But Rose would have no reason to NOT disagree with the official story... not like people who disagreed were dying or something...

Tracy, Here is the Fact sheet from Oswald's autopsy... in 2 versions... 1) shows the scars discovered as he entered the marines and how none of these scars appear on the FACT sheet. The gunshot wound is not there, the mastoid is an ancient scar yet this is how that was described in the Rose autopsy: Not so much Tracy.... from the Oswald autopsy report: At the upper end of ties right sternocleidomastoid over the skin is transverse very superficial 3/4 inch scratch with some reddish antiseptic type of paint surrounding this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sternocleidomastoid_muscle This 3/4" 18 year old scar is a "scratch" that required antiseptic?? Sounds to me like a scratch from the Theater fight.... not an old scar. So you see they did see the mastoid area and yet did not see a 1" left mastoid scar.... but just a scratch. and 2) here is an autopsy report excerpt ... do you see anything marked "23 inches from the top of the head" that would constitute Ruby's entrance wound? or anything that says 1/4 x 5/16 inch in diameter? Seems the only scars missing are the ones that would ID him as Lee and not Harvey....