David Josephs

Just like those Tobacco industry backed research studies telling us how harmless smoking, tar and nicotine are... fully-accredited AND historical... nothing but the truth served here... c'mon now, they're just as trustworthy as the Warren Commissioners and the report they signed What is it exactly that you take issue with? Fully accredited? It is. Historical presentations? They do those. How is it that a museum garners such wrath? Are you suggesting that they should present the kinds of dopey theories that rise from the various online forums? Nobody online can even agree on the simplest of issues. It's utter chaos. Museums aren't that. Museums - especially this one - presents the historical record as presented by accounts given at the time. The museum cannot take a political stance on these kinds of things. Online forums are the place to present and discuss all the stupid and outrageous theories we choose. It's where the truth will emerge. And when it does - finally - the Museum will be obliged to present that truth. Because it is an historical institution. Really, this kind of bashing is tiresome. It's like third graders angry at the school cafeteria because they won't serve pizza five days a week. Yes indeed Mark... we should have a museum erected to the lies created and perpetrated by the US government which shows the lies for what they were... not presented as historical truth but as a historical conspiracy. It's like the people who still think Lincoln was killed by a Lone Nut and Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin and 911 weren't created historical events designed to serve a purpose that had nothing to do with the "historical fiction" taught to school children. I take issue with a Museum like that for just that reason.. it teaches children and bewildered adults that Oswald killed JFK and it was not the result of a massive Military, Industrial, Congressional cover-up. That the evidence which could not and would not be allowed a moment of time in a court of law is allowed to be used to sway the opinions of every day people since they are presented as if they are facts which have been corroborated and authenticated... and they are not. not even close. All we need now is the James Earl Ray did it Mesuem along side the Sirhan Sirhan shot him behind the ear from 5 feet away Museum... y'know, just so we can teach the kids the REAL history...

I look forward to it Paul... With regards to the rest of your post... Have you considered that Oswald was placed as a NOLA FPCC rep to uncover others sympathetic to the cause? A PO Box as a location for a meeting helps no one so having him change the handbills from 4907 Magazine or 544 Camp to a POBox suggests to me that the FPCC in NOLA was not all that serious in finding anyone. I also believe that the PO Box was only printed on the AJ Hidell flyers while the LH Oswald flyers have an actual address. As for the FBI/Hoover stating a conclusion being out of the norm... I was not me but the Warren Commissioners who say this... that the FBI NEVER provides a conclusion, especially one so early in an investigation which negates the whole point of the investigation in the first place... I can find the references - I think they are in the early exec session... Dulles mentions it here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1323&relPageId=14&search=conclusion As to your Mexico comments... I'll need to let them go since I believe you are about as far off from the reality of the event as a person can be. Until you can actually prove Hoover as the author of the Lone Nut theory, using it as a portion of an argument holds no water. Prove it first THEN use it to support a theory... and we don't want Wrone's opinion... we need something to corroborate the statement and conflicts with the 11/22 memo I just posted as awell as the Dec 12th memo which both state the opposite of what you and Wrone are contending... that Oswald was leftist and pro-Castro and was not alone. If Hoover was doing anything to CYA, it had to do with the FBI being the reason he was doing FPCC work and was with Banister et al to begin with... DJ

I have to somewhat disagree with Pat on some of thes FBI accusations. The FBI rpoerted what they were told by the CIA and Secret Service. DURING the autopsy Sr Staff at FBI is told that the SS has one bullet and another is lodged behind JFK's ear. There was no THROAT SHOT in the original autopsy or the autopsy that the WC reviewed... this is from the January 22, 1964 Exec Session. Whatever autopsy THEY were looking at was not the autopsy report in the archives since that one does talk about an exit from the throat of the shot, not a fragment. There is no real discussion about the SBT until the Zframes and Tague enter the equation in March/April. I'm sorry - I don't see the FBI blundering, only reporting what they were given - except for the Sibert/O'Neil report which makes all the difference. As much as we'd like to believe the FBI was included at Bethesda... they weren't. And the more I study the more I see the CIA/STATE/Military giving the FBI and I&NS the run-around. The FBI's report would be the basis for the WCR... the FBI report is based on the info given it and the supressing of the reports they themselves initiated and found to be puching the investigation into the "wrong" direction. Mr. Rankin: Then there‘s a great range of material in regards to the wound and the autopsy and this point of exit or entrance of the bullet in the front of the neck, and that all has to be developed much more than we have at the present time. We have an explanation there in the autopsy that probably a fragment came out the front of the neck, but with the elevation the shot must have come from, and the angle, it seems quite apparent, since we have the picture of where the bullet entered in the back, that the bullet entered below the shoulder blade to the right of the backbone, which is below the place where the picture shows the bullet came out in the neckband of the shirt in front, and the bullet, according to the autopsy didn't strike any bone at all, that particular bullet, and go through. So that how it could turn, and -- Rep. Boggs. I thought I read that bullet just went in a finger's length. Mr. Rankin. That is what they first said On Dec 2,3 & 4th SA Gauthier creates WCD298 showing three shots, three hits, no bullets coming out the front and a shot hitting JFK 40 feet past Z313. This was presented to the WCs in early January. Only one exhibit comes from this model which - explains the event so well that in lieu of going to DP, these models will tell the investigator everything they need to know.... and the exhibit drops the strings showing the shots and the position the cars during the shots... in essence the entire model was scrapped since it did not support the conspiracy. 4/27/64 - Redlich to Rankin Our intention is not to establish the point with complete accuracy, but merely to substantiate the hypothesis which underlies the conclusions that Oswald was the sole assassin I should add that the facts which we now have in our possession, submitted to us in separate reports from the FBI and Secret Service, are totally incorrect and, if left uncorrected, will present a completely misleading picture. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10699#relPageId=6&tab=page I've always found Greg's presentations to be fact filled and right on point.

Just like those Tobacco industry backed research studies telling us how harmless smoking, tar and nicotine are... fully-accredited AND historical... nothing but the truth served here... c'mon now, they're just as trustworthy as the Warren Commissioners and the report they signed

Looking forward to it Paul... All I could find was this letter from Hoover to his Senior Staff from 5:15pm on the 22nd. Seems to me he is saying the man is a leftist nut with extremeist, pro-Castro leanings (most likely from the FPCC assisgnment the FBI gave him in the first place) Be interesting to see a document that states Hoover's conclusion before an investigation even begins and then conveying that conclusion to Bundy somehow - when the FBI was known for NEVER offering a conclusion in their investigations... only info for analysis and consideration. FPCC and he worked in the building - so he must be a Lone Nut killer with no Castro connections - nice try Paul, but until you have something which refutes the documents I keep posting, I does seem that Hoover was very much taken in b y the Ozzie in Mexico info that rears it's head again just when it needs to... Please post that info when you get it and Good Wishes to Wrone for a speedy recovery DJ

Yes, John Armstrong, not Anderson. That was my speed-typing typo, David -- I actually got his name right a couple times before. Anyway, I'm glad you liked my source -- Professor Wrone -- for the pre-3PM 11/22/1963 announcement by J. Edgar Hoover that Lee Harvey OSWALD was the "Lone Nut" killer of JFK. As I said, it's in the 2003 video, "The Murder of JFK: A Revisionist History." And you're right -- it's on YouTube today. Specifically, it's in volume 11, exactly 50 seconds from the start. I also told Larry Hancock earlier this year that Wrone was my source -- and Larry also said he wanted more confirmation. Well, I know I'm not the only one who can pick up a telephone and call Dr. Wrone and ask him for his sources (which tend to be impressive). Besides, I have a day job and I keep my nose pretty close to the grindstone. So, I'm content to stick with Dr. Wrone's verdict until I hear proof otherwise -- but after a year of proclaiming Wrone on this Forum, nobody has yet proved Wrone wrong. Still, I'd be gratified if one of you JFK Researchers would please contact Professor Wrone and ask him. (PS. Also on YouTube, in volume 10 of that same series, near the end, around 7:33, Dr. Wrone also gives us some history of the time -- that the people he knew immediately thought the John Birch Society was behind the JFK murder.) Regards, --Paul Trejo Ok Paul... thanks... I just checked it out and there is no 3pm announcement mentioned... only what they THINK he MIGHT have said or done. There is nothing to offer a connection between Hoover and Bundy inferring that Bundy would take what Hoover said to the Sit room and inform AF-1. If anything I can see that happeneing in reverse with Bundy telling Hoover/LBJ the direction the government was going to go. If anything Hoover would have been delighted to uncover a communist plot... his entire existence was denying the Mafia and fighting communism, activism and the freedom to question the government. He was kept from doing this... You forget maybe that all month of Nov he was looking for a connection between Oswald and Mexico using his own sources - all negative - including one from the Dept of Gobernacion (very likely Ochoa telling him there was no record of Oswald on Nov 8th and then turning around to help Hoover after the fact to create the evidence) Your assumption that he would lie to his Sr. Staff when there was evidence offered that something happened in Mexico, that Ozzie was FPCC, that Florida and Cubans were involved... Hoover was shut down from doing an investigation... and he was bitter about it. The CIA/Military would trump the FBI every time. And the State Dept was in on it with the CIA. I have no doubts that once the ball was rolling Hoover helped solidify the Lone Nut myth and legend... simply put Paul, I think you jump to too many conclusions based on the thinnest of evidence... when there are mountains of real evidence from which to speculate.

First off his name is John Armstrong... and of course it starts in harmony since John did as much if not more work than most on that trip believing that it was Lee who made the trip. I believe I've convinced him that was not the case - that Lee was elsewhere and that no Oswald took this trip. btw - Ochoa's name does not appear in JA's book. As the FBI's top asset in Mexico and the man responsible for virtually all the fraudulent evidence he wouldn't be looked at much if one was focused on what occurred at these embassies as opposed to authenticating the travel and stay evidence. Bill's work has to do with why Oswald was impersonated on the 9/28 and 10/1 calls and why Mystery Man was even added to the mix. That MM's photos were from the 2nd 4th and 15th and had nothing at all to do with the Oct 1st call evidence offered by the CIA. I respect Bill's work immensely yet it has nothing to do with what the FBI, CIA, State and I&NS did to "uncover" or "hide" the travel details. I also think his work confirms that it definitley was not Oswald in MExico. Your "Hoover said it first" idea backed by the video is fine... Do you have which of the 18 episodes on youtube this is said? Do you have a transcript of this announcement? Who did he announce it to, when and where? We need more detail than just Wrone says so... I tried to find evidence of this announcement online with no luck so far... any corroboration for this occurring would be appreciated DJ My source for the 3PM 11/22/1963 announcement by J. Edgar Hoover that Lee Harvey OSWALD was the Lone Shooter ("Lone Nut") who killed JFK is History Professor David R. Wrone from Wisconsin University. He reveals this in the 2003 video, "The Murder of JFK: A Revisionist History."

Rather than try and eat the entire elephant in one bite... how about you explain how it is you know this as a fact.... I can appreciate this being offered as a theory yet Hoover is told by the CIA and State Dept that the evidence of his travel to Mexico reveals no mode of transportation when we can see the records for ourselves and see that they did say he traveled by Auto. The FBI was forced into creating and cherry-picking evidence which kept him a Lone Nut traveling alone - Bundy's declaration comes well beofre Hoover is involved in the decision. So please... if you are so sure that Hoover's letter to his senior staff is a lie... can you prove it with some logic and evidence... ? Alvarado was clearly a CIA asset in Mexico for one and only one reason, to implicate Oswald as a Castro backed communist bent on killing JFK... He was Nicauraguan intelligence... Once Ozzie the commie becomes Ozzie the Lone Nut, Alvarado's story has to be discredited... Helms even steps in to explain away Alvarado... This was not some "Panic" ... this was orchestrated to show that the accused murderer was linked to Castro, so let's go get Castro. All that was called off... and then the CIA asks that he be given something else to do... here's a man that supposedly lies to implicate someone already accused in the murder of JFK and the CIA just wants to hide him away yet still give him something to do - yet Duran, who does not lie about the incident is taken in and interrogated by Mexican Police until she agrees even more incriminating statements against this man she says did not return after Friday the 27th. The CIA's offers a memo that states they will NOT use Tap info from the "LI" programs but the evidence from Duran and the Russians... You claim he was in Mexico City... again, offer your evidence that he was there... I've offered 250 pages showing he was not. That you disagree does not make the information any less revealing or the evidence any more authentic... Were you aware of Ochoa and his role? Arturo Bosch and the Frontera passenger list along with the other "presidential staff members" who arrived soon after the assassination to "borrow" the evidence related to all the possible means for this Oswald to have arrived in Mexico City...? Anahuac and the FBI saying he arrived in Mexico City on that line - while all that line's records in Mexico City and Monterrey were moved to another location further north? Paul... I appreciate you took the time to read thru the work... what you haven't proven and only offer is your speculation that the man called OSWALD in the car per the CIA was actually Lee or Harvey Oswald. The CIA even lies about who was potentially in the car with him... in one report it's the Brill's when their name was "Allen", in another it's two women and a man... Another major conflict: Let me ask you... the FM-8 application Oswald signed was actually for an FM-5, a 180 day stay - not a 15 day stay... why is the application for one visa while the actual visa is for somehting else? You supposed that OCHOA being the source for Oswald's FM-8 has anything to do with it? Or how about that this incorrect VISA has no reference to a car or bus yet the FM-11 provided by OCHOA has him leaving by Auto. The cards typed up by Tijerina for Cash.. "Vieja en Auto" from the FM-11 while the source document does not reflect this. And finally Paul... the reason why Mystery Man is in Oswald's file has to do with a story related to FBI SA Odum supposedly showing these photos to Marguerite who says afterward that the FBI showed her photos of RUBY IN MEXICO... The photo is listed as ODUM EXH #1 in the WCR... http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/html/WH_Vol20_0356a.htm

Intriguing, David. Please tell us which "CIA asset" you're referring to. Because, if you're referring to Gilberto "Alvarado" Ugarte, he FAILED that polygraph test. Also, you're right that the CIA Mole-Hunt wasn't originally about JFK, because in early October the CIA high-command had no clue that JFK was going to be murdered in Dallas in the next seven weeks. So, what's your point, again? Regards, --Paul Trejo My point was the response to each and every point you listed which needed addressing, which you conveniently did not include in your reply.... maybe head back over and take a look - my replies are in bold right after each of your points. And again Paul, you have no clue what CIA high command knew or didn't - so why do you make such generic statments as if you know something but don't want to share the sources for such a theory which you state as fact? Is there anything that you can offer to support this conclusion? ------------------------- & Yes Paul... Alvarado was a CIA asset who comes in after the assassination to tell an amazing story. CE3152 is Helm's explanation of Alvarado to the WC and comes from WCD1545 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11940#relPageId=3&tab=page ... another link to the story is WCD76 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10478#relPageId=5&tab=page The "failed" lie detector test is a misnomer. No such thing as "failing" a polygraph. The operator, also CIA, with Philips in the room made sure that he was shown to be lying even though Alvarado himself recanted his confession of fakery. He was sent away and it was requested that he be given something "useful and non-sensitive" to do. The entire story was an incriminating Castro-backed story which the CIA squashed once Cuba was no longer on the table. The CIA and State Dept were working together to both establish an Oswald had traveled and that he had not traveled alone but in a car to and from Mexico... yet this info was not passed along to FBI or I&NS... the FBI was lied to about the lack of a mode of transportation... the FBI's reports from Nov are all negative for Oswald having been in Mexico... yet Hoover and the FBI go ahead and create tht travel documents... The FBI asset that mattered was a lawyer named Ochoa who handled every piece of the fraudulent Mexico City travel and hotel evidence... he even added his own notes to the FM-11 to "help the investigation..." Paul... I think you will find many of the answers and sources you are looking for in my Mexico work... but you can only lead a horse to water, right? Take care. DJ

No... I think they primarily benefitted from it. the Sponsor-level you and I have discussed The Facilitator orchestrates the assassination and ensuing cover-up. I think Bundy was a Sponsor who acted as one of the top Facilitators whereas Hoover was a top Facilitator of the conspiracy and had little to do with the actual assassination and was definitely not in the Sponsor class. I don't think Sponsors had a hand in the manipulation of evidence other than by request. Would we believe that Sec of Treasury Dillion gave the order for the SS to take the body from Parkland or was it one of any number in the chain of command from Dillion to Rowley thru Roberts & Boring and finally to Kellerman? Yet it seems obvious that Dillon was connected to these US Financial giants and was in a position of great influence. In 1961 President John F. Kennedy, a Democrat, appointed Republican, Dillon Treasury Secretary. Dillon remained Treasury Secretary under President Lyndon B. Johnson until 1965. Dillon proposed the fifth round of tariff negotiations under the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), conducted in Geneva 1960–1962; it came to be called the "Dillon Round", and led to substantial tariff reduction. Dillon was important in securing presidential power for reciprocal tariff reductions under the Trade Expansion Act of 1962. He also played a role in crafting the Revenue Act of 1962 that established a 7 percent investment credit to spur industrial growth. He supervised revision of depreciation rules to benefit corporate investment. A close friend of John D. Rockefeller III, he was chairman of the Rockefeller Foundation from 1972 to 1975. He also served alongside John Rockefeller on the 1973 Commission on Private Philanthropy and Public Needs, and under Nelson Rockefeller in the Rockefeller Commission to investigate CIA activities (along with Ronald Reagan). He had been president of Harvard Board of Overseers, chairman of the Brookings Institution, and vice chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations.[2] (Section 4 of the 25th Amendment) Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President. I believe that key Military leaders in concert with the CIA "orchestrated" the assassination and cover-up for the continued success and wielding of power the MICC desired and had grown accustomed to under Ike and Nixon. When efforts were repeatedly made to get JFK in line, as had been so successful with other politicians - especially Nixon - and repeatedly failed... I believe a decision that "this pebble needs to be removed from our shoe" (ala Marcello) was made and underlings, in their desire to rid the US of this treasonous president "Orchestrated" the killing at a number of spots. I believe these Military leaders move in the same circles as the Industrialists and Congress of the MICC yet only a select few are "Sponsors". "None Dare Call it Conspiracy" is one of the better and easier to read books on the influence and strength of this Sponsor class... the free pdf is all over the internet my $.02 DJ

Yes indeed... Bill has been extremely helpful in so many ways related to Mexico City and the Evidence... the mole-hunt was more concerned with FBI, Mexican and/or Cuban infultration of the CIA "LI" programs than anything related to JFK... But ask yourself why a CIA asset goes to the local authorities to tell his Sept 18, no Sept 27/28th story - is polygraphed with Phillips in the room, is discredited and is sent away. All after the assassination. THAT is a key to how the evidence was used to implicate Oswald as a Commie and Castro related.

FWIW - the Textron purchase of Bell with the help of CIA general Cabell had much more to do with the Bank Of BOSTON, Sun Life of MONTREAL, the Boston Fabians, Arthur Little, Prudential Life (a Morgan Co therefor a Rothschild co) and the Bank of England than with anything related to "New York Establishment" Seems to me more of the Lawyers, like Cravath, Swaine and Moore are from NY - with ties back to London While the NY Banks seem more tied to Boston, Canada and England than to the NY elite. Choate, Hall and Stewert also played prominently and is a Boston law Firm. I believe that due to limited thinking these international business men and women were categorized as "Eastern Establishment" when in reality the "Eastern" part had it's hand in it at the beginning but the Establishment, or New New Establishment as the New Yorker calls it, has no geographical boundaries and were only headquatered in NY...there is as much "Establishment" in TX, CA, and a variety of other states. The MICC extended everywhere and involved those in the Establishment deemed worthy of inclusion. Conflict is the substance of the MICC's success. JFK was a larger threat to ongoing "conflict" than any president ever was... While these elite - the "sponsors" will always make their money and grab their power regardless of the political climate, JFK was basically the first of the presidents in the modern era to challenge the status quo. To me the 25th Amendment says it all... it basically legalized the influential in the MICC to insist on the removal of a president and be able to accomplish it. JFK could not be allowed to be re-elected. http://nymag.com/news/features/establishments/68510/ The first secular invocation of the Establishment dates to 1841, when Ralph Waldo Emerson employed the term in a lecture at the Masonic Temple in Boston, but its entry into the modern vernacular came more than 100 years ­later—thanks, tellingly, to a journalist. The year was 1955 and the scribe was Henry Fairlie, the puckish, young conservative political columnist for the London Spectator. “By the ‘Establishment,’ I do not mean only the centers of official power—though they are certainly part of it—but rather the whole matrix of official and social relations within which power is exercised,” he wrote. Fairlie’s coinage spread quickly to America, which, of course, had developed its own incarnation of the same phenomenon—with New York at its very center. During the Cold War, the city was home to many of the paragons of the Eastern Establishment: Averell Harriman, John McCloy, David Rockefeller, Brooke Astor

What I had noticed was that in most every image of Oswald his arms are bent and he is usually just holding his own arm or hand... I can appreciate the line of analysis yet the image is so very poor... even at the ROKC images one would expect to see something of substance in the hand area.. I tried all the Photoshop tricks I could to bring out something that may be in his hands.

Thanks for the post Caddy - this is some severely nauseating stuff perpetuating the Oswald myth... Marina is going to shed light on the man she called her husband.... please.

Paul... at some point don't you have to take a breath and stop guessing? "Ms Tirado described Lee Harvey Oswald as approximately five foor six, with sparse blond hair, weighing about 125 "?" pounds" TIRADO - No. I read yesterday, an article in the Reader's digest, and they say he was at the Consulate on three occasions. He was in Friday, Saturday, and Monday...That's not true, that's false. CORNWELL - All right. Let's try a different hypothetical. If the one in the Reader's Digest is definitely wrong, is it possible that he first came on like a Thursday, and then came back on a Friday? TIRADO - No, because I am positively sure about it. That he came in the same day. CORNWELL - During this period was your normal work week, did it include Saturdays? TIRADO - Yes. CORNWELL - Is it possible that, in addition to his visits on Friday, he also came back the following day on Saturday mourning? TIRADO - No. CORNWELL - How can you be sure of that? TIRADO - Because, uh, I told you before, that it was easy to remember, because not all the Americans that came there were married with a Russian woman, they have live(d) in Russian and uh, we didn't used to fight with those people because if you, they came for going to Cuba, so apparently they were friends, no? So we were nice to them with this man we fight, I mean we had a hard discussion so we didn't want to have anything to do with him. CORNWELL - Okay. I understand that but I don't understand how that really answers the question. In other words, the question is, what is it about the events that makes you sure that he did not come back on Saturday, and have another conversation with you? TIRADO - Because I remember the fight. So if he (come) back, I would have remembered. CORNWELL - Did Azcue work on Saturdays? TIRADO - Yes, we used to work in the office but not for the public. CORNWELL - Was there a guard, was there a guard out here at the corner near number seven on your diagram on Saturdays? TIRADO - Excuse me? CORNWELL - Was there a doorman out near the area that you marked as number seven, on the diagram? TIRADO - Yes, but on Saturday he never let people ... CORNWELL - Never let people in. TIRADO - No. CORNWELL - And what did you do at that time? TIRADO - I filled out application. CORNWELL - You personally typed it, and did you type it in duplicate or triplicate or just one copy? TIRADO - Duplicate. CORNWELL - And was the second copy a carbon? TIRADO - Carbon? CORNWELL - Did you have it twice or did you type one and make two copies? TIRADO - Only one. CORNWELL - And made two? TIRADO - Yes. Except these two copies typed at the same time do not match - the pages when placed on top of each other with the text lined up results in nothing else lining up... The signatures are not the same The "10 OCT 1963" on the original supposedly comes from Cuba The HSCA reverses the descriptions of "copy" and "original" Neither signature is significantly similar to Oswald's The FBI looked and could not find a place anywhere close to the Cuban Embassy that could have taken these images.... If we are to believe that this person at the Embassy was the same as the photos, per Duran, then why is she wrong about his not being back after the 27th? Duran was of course, NOT shown these same photos or this exhibit during her testimony CORNWELL - Would you have ever allowed a person to take all of the applications outside and attach the photos or sign them themselves? TIRADO - Yes, because you may come, ask for the application and you may keep it. CORNWELL - You, on occasion, would allow someone just to have a blank copy. Is that correct? TIRADO - Yes.

Paul, Who do you think was the Oswald who took a bus to Mexico City, sitting next to Albert Osborne and talking with two British and two Australian tourists? Good question, Ron. In my opinion, most of the "sightings" of OSWALD were fictitious boastings by nut-cases. The others were largely cases of mistaken identity. Take John Howard Bowen (alias Albert Alexander Osborne), for example, a classic pathological xxxx. How many people enjoyed their "fifteen minutes of fame" which might never come again, just by claiming that this or that look-alike was really OSWALD? I won't go into "conspiracy" mode when I learn that the bus records fail to register any Lee Harvey Oswald on board. I won't go into "conspiracy" mode when I learn that some Mexican border guards reported Lee Harvey Oswald entered Mexico as a passenger in a car. Most of their accounts have problems of exaggeration, mistaken identity or just fiction. We must remember that Lee Harvey OSWALD was the single most famous (infamous) person in the Western world after the death of JFK, for perhaps a solid year. It's a scenario just begging for nut-cases to come out of the woodwork. Regards, --Paul Trejo Paul and Ron... I can understand if you'd prefer to just jockey back and forth without the evidence in front of you... yet if you want to know WHY the FBI created the entire bus trip, and how it was accomplished you might want to read the work which has taken me the last 8 months.... Mexico City Trip: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6 Do you know who the Lawyer Ochoa was and how he helped the FBI with the Mexican Evidence? Are you aware of what Arturo Bosch did to the Frontera bus passenger mainfest? (when it was found that a 2pm departure could not get him to connecting buses in time to get back to the TEC for his Oct 3rd appointment... it was dropped and no longer considered evidence of the trip... as it had been for quite some time) They knew who did it and when yet there was no followup to the Mexican President, his staff or Bosch for falsifying evidence... they just found another bus which leaves at 8:30am - Del Norte - while other FBI reports put him on the Anahuac bus line... Did you know that the Aussie girls and McFarland were not on the bus the FBI claims Oswald was on? At some point don't you need to actually go to the work and evidence and stop spreading incorrect information about this trip? The documents are part of the paper... The "Oswald" character is a composite of a number of different passengers a number of different witnesses claimed to have seen... Yet when you get to the evidence, none of it is true. There was no "Oswald" on any of these buses... the evidence shows that "LEE, Harvey Oswald" or H.O. LEE is the name on the travel documents. That all the after the fact info created alphabetizes Mr. LEE between N and P, never as Mr. Lee as all the evidence shows. Reports talk of Lee HENRY Oswald traveling as shown by the Mexican records yet there is not one piece of evidence that uses HENRY... State Consul Harvey CASH lies to the I&NS about what the evidence handed to him actually says by removing reference to "Vieja en Auto" and letting the FBI and I&NS create a badly pieced together bus trip. If you can actually read thru the work and still believe that Oswald was on a bus or even in Mexico, that the FBI bus Oswald is the CIA's embassy Oswald, or that any of the evidence supporting the FBI's story is authentic, please post it... Nothing I have found to date supports the FBI's version of the story. No one to date has taken a look at this evidence as I have... it started as a request from Jim D to do a write up when the signature on the Hotel registry and the name on the fake Visa - LEE, HARVEY OSWALD - are written exactly the same way while the signature on the visa itself is "Lee Oswald" (btw - the visa application with Oswald's name, as I posted before, was not a 15 day FM-8 but for a 180 day FM-5) What we learn is that OCHOA has the hotel registry, had already added notes to aid the investigation on the FM-11 and provides copies - NEVER originals - of these pages along with virtually every other piece of Mexican evidence for this falsified bus ride. Say or feel whatever you want towards me... the evidence is all there and presented for you to decide. So are most of the links to the sources. Paul - you specifically have a very narrow view of what the evidence shows. More than just Osborne talks about there not being other english speaking people on the bus... The FBI puts Oswald on the Flecha Rojas bus into Mexico City (and also the Anahuac bus into Mexico City)... The Flecha Rojas bus leaves Monterrey at 3:30 pm, the DEL NORTE bus leaves Monterrey at 7:30pm The problem here is that the FBI puts Oswald on a 2pm Flecha Rojas bus leaving Neuvo Laredo and a Flecha Rojas bus leaving Monterrey only 1.5 hours later... it's a 4 hour 135-mile trip from Neuvo Laredo to Monterrey. And the Aussies put themselves on a Del Norte bus.... the McFarlands are on the bus with the Aussies. Since no Oswald took a bus, what we find is that these two statements are the ONLY EVIDENCE for Oswald having been on a southern traveling bus from Monterrey (I also have the Flecha Rojas passenger manifest from Monterrey showing only passengers who got on in Monterrey (the Aussies).. they of course are not listed... (this is page 2 following the doc below) McFarland affidavit: Q. Did you see Oswald speaking to any other persons? A. Yes. We observed him conversing occasionally with two young Australian women who boarded the bus on the evening of September 26th at Monterrey, Mexico. He also conversed occasionally with an elderly man who sat in the seat next to him for a time... We spent one day in Monterrey and left by bus at 7:30 p.m. at Monterrey, and it was on that bus that we met Lee Harvey Oswald Miss MUMFORD. Well, the ticket we had on this deal enabled us only to travel in the States, not in Mexico. So, we bought the ticket on the bus at Laredo and that enabled us to stop off in Monterrey. But the ticket was from Laredo to Mexico City. Mr. BALL. And from what company did you buy the ticket? Miss MUMFORD. As far as I can remember, it was a bus company called Transporter del Norte. Mr. BALL. Now, you got on the bus at Monterrey on the evening of September 26 at 7:30 p.m., you just told me? Miss MUMFORD. Yes. Mr. BALL. And what was the company that operated that bus, do you know? Miss MUMFORD. That was also Transporter del Norte.

The tired old argument that no other comparable orders or inventories or shipments would be of any benefit to the evidence is obviously a tactic to deflect the question. The rifle is one of the most important pieces of evidence and yet the limiting of the FBI investigation to that one order and no other context is yet another example of the conclusion dictating the investigation. When the FBI has prime, original evidence in its possession for months before evidence is offered as Exhibit and then the source materials disappear (like oh so many films, right Gayle?) how can the evidence then offered be considrede anything but junk? - or solely indicative of a conver-up? Bob... you know the rifle evidence - has anyone ever come forward with a 40"FC rifle they got from ordering C20-T750? Come forward with the 36"TS? Are is it that only the rifle attributed to Oswald has such a detailed and specific past? Amazing how incriminating evidence is easy to find, while in so many cases the FBI can find everyone and anyone to circumstantially corroborate evidence against Oswald, they just cant find evidence directly from Oswald.

it is truly not as questionable as it is being presented. She told her doctor and her father about this well before the assassination... Mr. Valenti... talk to me directly... man-up already and learn the material. You post as if you haven't the first clue what was actually said or what the evidence actually looks lilke. If anything I write is "unsettled and highly questionable" - do what you can to show I'm wrong. Your work on the tramps falls terribly short of convincing anyone that the two separate sets of men being described were really only one set of men who stayed in jail until the 26th... Wise and Bass do not agree with Chambers and Jones... espcially since Jones asks Chambers to release the men BEFORE Oswald is even at the station, which is BEFORE the photos of the DP tramps were even taken. To the matter at hand.... The FBI wanted it to be Hall, Howard and Seymour... and right up to the day before the publication of the WCR they were finding out it was NOT them... and still refusing to change their minds about Odio... Her info was hidden... the WCR says it could not have been Oswald since he was on the way to Mexico - citing the FBI evidence of a bus ride which never took place... over which I go into deep detail in other writings. http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0173b.htm The WCR does not say she was not telling the truth but that since the FBI had determined that Oswald was not in Dallas rom the beginning of Sept until October 3rd, he couldn't have been at Odio. If it can be shown that Oswald was not actually in Mexico City at the time, or even traveling to Mexico... what does that do to the WCR conclusion about who Odio sees? Mr. LIEBELER. Did you tell Dr. Einspruch about it? Mrs. ODIO. Yes; but the things you talk with a doctor in an office, he will tell you before that he is going to say it. He would have told me, "I am going to tell the FBI." You have to trust a doctor, especially a psychiatrist. I know they talked to him later, but I don't think it was him that called the FBI Mrs. ODIO. Before you start, let me give you a letter of my father's which he wrote me from prison. You can have it. It was very funny, because at the time he wrote it, the FBI incident happened a week later. I told my father this man had been in my house and he introduced himself as your friend; and he wrote me back in December telling me that such people were not his friends, and he said not to receive anybody in my house, and not any of them were his friends, and he didn't know those people. At the time I did give the names of one or two, and he wrote back, "I actually don't know who they are." Mrs. ODIO. At first, I thought he was just trying to get fresh with me. The second time, it never occurred to me until I went to my psychiatrist. I used to go to see Dr. Einspruch in the Southwestern Medical School, and I used to tell him all the events that happened to me during the week. And he relates that I mentioned to him the fact that these men had been at my door, and the fact that these Cubans were trying to get in the underground, and thought I was a good contact for it, they were simply trying to introduce him. Anyhow, I did not know for what purpose. My father and mother are prisoners, and you never know if they can blackmail you or they are going to get them out of there, if you give them a certain amount of money. You never know what to expect. I expect anything. Later on I did establish opinions, because you can't help but establish opinions. Mr. LIEBELER. Did you establish that opinion after the assassination or before the assassination? Mrs. ODIO. This first opinion that I mentioned to my psychiatrist, I did not give it a second thought. I forgot to tell Alentado about it; except 3 days later I wrote to my father after they came, and mentioned the fact that the two men had called themselves friends of his. And later in December, because the letter takes a long time to get here, he writes me back, "I do not know any of these men. Do not get involved with any of them."

You now need to answer a question Jon.... Why can you not allow for duplicitous activity prior to the assassination which the "planners" could use as needed should the occasion arrise. I refer back to Vallee. If this was a true patsy set-up for the attempt that was thwarted I am sure we would have learned about activities that MAY have been innocent at the time but under this new POV of assassination, their innocence comes into question. Oswald is basically placed at the TSBD JFK is basically placed in front of the TSBD... the killed brought to the accused. and the same set-up is seen in Chicago... JFK passes right by Vallee on his way. I truly do not believe that his activities since coming back from Russia were all leading to the killing of JFK... possible but unlikely. Was Oswald TOLD to flaunt his Marxism (which was "commie" to the masses) to create the association for JFK, or for FPCC infultration... why not both? That he was set-up ahead of time is not hard to see. That the real killers actions were covered up by the investigation with Oswald as the focus is a given. How are we to tell an advance activity as set-up versus not until it is used against him? He was being set-up as a commie with co-conspirators possibly connected to Castro (specifically so by the CIA asset Alvarado), not a Lone Nut Who he really was and what really happened was completely covered up using a mixture of pre-assassination duplicitous activities and post assassination cover-up. Why again is the distinction so important? You tell us you know your CI. Are you saying that creating mutiple reasons for the same "set-up" activity is not to CI's advantage or not CI SOP?... to SPIN things one way or another and still offer the shadow of truth. To answer the thread's question, again. Yes, there was a Set-Up distinct from the Cover-up since the cover-up had to also include undoing the "Castro-commie" set-up in favor of the "Lone Nut" conclusion... Mexico City is a perfect example. To the CIA and State Dept he had traveled with others by car. To the FBI and I&NS he had come and gone by bus, alone. Set-up v Cover-up. Doesn't get much simplier than that.

Classic Von Pein... Can you or anyone prove what we see printed as that order was what was actually on the microfilm - now that the cannister remains yet the film is gone? Do you understand that the only thing that relates THAT rifle to THAT order is Waldman's own pencil writing in of the VC # and Seriel #.? Kleins does not need to be part of the "plot" at all... they just needed to have given the FBI the evidence before it was authenticated. We also have the VP of the bank of Chicago stating that the MO deposited on this order would have been sent to and processed by the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago... as we all know, there are no processing mark or stamps on the Money Order, only the stamp Waldman THINKS is the same as the one they use... It's close, but not the same stamp... and as we can see, this is a KLEINS stamp. The Banking processes were never performed on this piece of paper. Let's see what else Waldman has to say.... So basically, before we have any idea what is actually on this roll of film, the FBI has it in their possession. We do not know anything about the state of Klein's inventory of C20-T750's as of March 1963. There is no way to connect C2766 from Riva in Italy to this order. Feldsott already told us about C2766 from an order shipped to Kleins in June 1962, not Feb 1963. The microfilm with this and any other order form which can be used to compare SOP at this time is no longer in the Archives... the cannister is empty. As to Waldman being the "proper individual" from Kleins... Mr. BELIN. Do you know who the person is that filled out this order? Mr. WALDMAN. Yes; his initials are so indicated as "M.W." Mr. BELIN. Would that be the name at the lower lefthand corner of Exhibit 1? Mr. WALDMAN. It is. Mr. BELIN. And that is who? Mr. WALDMAN. Mitchell W. Westra. Mr. BELIN. At that time was he an employee of your company? Mr. WALDMAN. He was. Mr. BELIN. Was he under your jurisdiction and supervision? Mr. WALDMAN. He was not under my direct supervision, no. He was under the supervision of Sam Kasper Westra nor Kasper were interviewed... the man who filled the order and his boss were not consulted... Waldman was. And Waldman does not know his own inventory as evidenced by this stated regarding a non-existent Model 91/38EFF Mr. WALDMAN. As for example, the different manufacturers making the Springfield rifle. Basically, the weapons were of the same general design, but as I say, there were details that were different. We originally had ordered one style of Carcano rifle, one that was known as the Model 91TS. As time went on, we changed to another model known as the Model 91/38EFF, this on April 13, 1962. Waldman testified on May 20, 1964. The microfilm in question had been in the possession of the FBI since the day they took it, Nov 23, 1963. Mr. WALDMAN. The number that you referred to, C20-T750 is a catalog number. Mr. BELIN. And after that, there appears some words of identification or description. Can you state what that is? Mr. WALDMAN. The number designates an item which we sell, namely, an Italian carbine, 6.5 caliber rifle with the 4X scope The TS rifle was a 36" scoped carbine The FC was not. C20-T750 had been advertised as a 36" carbine with a scope for $19.95 since March 1962. It was waht the Hidell Order refers to. Even the Secret Service told us the rifle found was a TS carbine. So the question remains. All the evidence points to the rifle ordered and shipped on the microfilm receipt as a 36" scoped carbine 91/38TS rifle. LNers like you claim that Kleins was shipping the larger rifle yet you provide nothing to support such a speculation. That a 40" FC rifle is found on the 6th floor does not equate to this having anything at all to do with that Hidell order unless you can show it was standard practice to replace one rifle with another... simply done too - just so us one other C20-T750 order and call it a day. But you can't give us anything but excuses for WHY we would need to do that in the first palce. Because, as BA posted, it would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the order for C20-T750 was either the ONLY one where a different rifle was shipped, or was part of many 40" FC rifles shipped for that order number... That Kleins had been selling the C20-T750 since March 1962 and was on ad every month until Feb 1963... unchanged as to description for all those months - a 36" scoped TS carbine. Yet you are trying to get us to believe that not a single other C20-T750 was ordered during that entire year. Which would also be proven if we could see the other orders from that film or ANY of the Kleins film. The entire point von Pein is to see other orders with one of the other 99 seriel numbers on it. There are 100 rifles listed here... does the FBI show us that any one of these is a 40" FC rifle? Does Kleins offer any evidence related to these 99 OTHER rifles? Of course not because they like we know these are from the June 1962 shipment of 36" rifles We know that Riva removed the seriel number of all the rifles he worked on - except, says the FBI, this one batch... but they offer no proof of a single other rifle. At the end of the day von Pein, the evidence you and the WCR uses to implicate a man of murder is woefully inadequate and terribly inauthentic. We have breaks in the custody at an agency known for altering, creqating and destroying evidence when it suited them. (the entirety of the Mexico evidence was created with the help of an FBI asset named Ochoa) So it is really left up to you to connect the dots... and again - the evidence you choose to use falls terribly short and in reality shows the conspiracy of evidence thru the FBI that permeated this case... If the WCR/FBi could convict using real evidence that said what it intended we have to assume they would have. Instead we constantly see the FBI bending in every conceivable way to get the evidence to conform to the accusation and conclusions... while never offereing corroboration or authentication of said evidence. The man was dead - they just needed to make their case.

So you're as confused by that model and WCD298 as the rest of us.... The DPD also made sure Oswald was killed... sorry but the DPD does not get much kudos for that weekend, other than from those who actually did the crime. And I see you continue to avoid anything with substance for then you'd have to defend it. Pein, it took Salandria 15 minutes to see it was a conspiracy. It's taken 50+ years for our governemnt to make sure that fact was hidden and remains so. If feel so sorry fo your inability to see 10 years past JFK to 1953 and what occurs in the world over the next 10 years... You pop into existence with your tiny little sayings, chuckle at being out numbered 1000:1, and play these games.... Great to see you again Pein... you remind me how truly deep heads are stick in the sand to avoid having to even THINK of the evil which existed and exits today... Don't worry buddy, your honey-boo reruns are coming on soon...

Funny thing The name Lee Harvey Oswald does not appear on this order A C20-T750, a 36" carbine with a scope did not exist at Kleins. That order was never shipped. Where is the evidence that the $1.50 in postage was ever sent on? What happened to the C2766 rifle Feldscott says was shipped to Klein's in June 1962 right after the ads for a C20-T750 had been running a couple of months and they needed rifles to fulfill C20-T750 orders thru Feb 1963? Why is there no federal banking stamp on the back of the MO? Why was it found in VA and not KS? How, if there is no specific evidence of what Rupp took out of Harborside to send to Kleins, can you connect a rifle from Rupp thru Kleins and to Oswald when all the orders from that time period are gone? Why is there no proof that Oswald or Hidell ever got the rifle from the Post Office or that it ever arrived at a post office? Why wont the FBI or Kleins let us see another order for C20-T750 to see what was shipped? Why has not a single person EVER come forward claiming to have ordered a C20-T750 36" scoped carbine and say they got the same rifle Oswald used? That would be pretty exciting and there should be tens if not a hundred of these floating around...? What about the rest of the inventory from that shipment... did the FBI ever check the remaining stock to see if the other 99 rifles were also 40" FC rifles and not TS and/or where they were shipped? When the rifle is supposedly in New Orleans on Sept 23, 1963 with the rest of the Oswald belongings and Ruth takes Marina and childred back to Irving... they see the loading and unloading of her car and repeatedly tells us that she does not see that rifle until shown to her on at the DPD. Did he take it with him to Mexico? to Odio? was it ever seen at the Paine house? No. So what happened to it? How did it get from Magazine to Irving? When he arrived at the TSBD - where do you say he put the rifle to retrieve it later? http://www.ctka.net/2014/The%20evidence%20is%20the%20conspiracy.html you might want to read thru this... if he had a plan THIS is the plan he had to follow... When did he have time to disassemble the rifle? Make the paper bag? Get the bag home - (he only asks Wesley for a ride Thursday afternoon) Get the rifle into the bag before going to sleep at 9pm? Get the rifle and bag in the morning? Get a 34" piece of rifle into a 27" bag with clip, bullets, and trigger mechanism - and still not leave a trace inside said bag? Mr. Pein... your attempts at offering WCR evidence and WCR conclusions with the same tired old fraudulent evidence from 50 years ago is terribly lame for someone with your skills. Fashion a paper as I did at that link that illustrates the PLAN your Lone Nut had to employ to accomplish this amazing feat. PROVE he did it since he is INNOCENT until proven guilty... No one including you have been able to offer a convincing argument supported by facts which is not destroyed just by looking at the Evidence of the Conspiracy left behind. Posting a single doc and proclaiming King of the Hill is premature Dave... even you can follow that. Post an argument that isn't so easily pulled apart... you have all the evidence - same as I do... If you;re going to waste our time and offer an argument - can you at least make it worth looking at?

where did you read he had? maybe a 2nd day 5:00 shadow after driving from New Orleans to Dallas? we remember Oswald the day he came to my house because he had not shaved and he had a kind of a very, I don’t know how to express it, but some little hairs like if you haven’t shaved, but it is not a thick moustache, but some kind of shadow

What DVP does not come and do is try to prove any of the WCR conclusions offered.. he'd rather we answer his tired old question, "if not Oswald, who?" as if that automatically makes the WCR okay... So which of these 12 can even be considered an accusation against Oswald? 1. The shots which killed President Kennedy and wounded Governor Connally were fired from the sixth floor window at the southeast corner of the Texas School Book Depository. (put Oswald in that window) 2. The weight of the evidence indicates that there were three shots fired. (the HSCA proved that wrong plus there are numerous “marks” in DP from that day to prove well more than the 4 shots the HSCA found (they actually found 6, 2 were not fired from the only two locations they test- fired from… they were still gunshot sounds… just not from the GK or SE window) 3. Although it is not necessary to any essential findings of the Commission to determine just which shot. hit Governor Connally, there is very persuasive evidence from the experts to indicate that the same bullet which pierced the President’s throat also caused Governor Connally’s wounds. (please present said evidence – show how an 11 degree UPWARD angle needed to connect back to front can be accomplished from 70 feet above the target - OR THAT THE WOUNDS ARE CONNECTED AT ALL) 4. The shots which killed President Kennedy and wounded Governor Connally were fired by Lee Harvey Oswald (any evidence that shows he fired a rifle or THAT rifle was fired would be appreciated) 5. Oswald killed Dallas Police Patrolman J. D. Tippit approximately 45 minutes after the assassination (please connect this with the killing of JFK and the evidence presented by Markham and Bowley) 6. Within 80 minutes of the assassination and 35 minutes of the Tippit killing Oswald resisted arrest at the theatre by attempting to shoot another Dallas police officer. (and this has to do with JFK how?) 7. The Commission has reached the following conclusions concerning Oswald’s interrogation and detention by the Dallas police : (a) Except for the force required to effect his arrest, Oswaldwas not subjected to any physical coercion by any law enforcement officials. He was advised that he could not be compelled to give any information and that any statements made by him might be used against him in court. He was advised of his right to counsel. He was given the opportunity to obtain counsel of his own choice and was offered legal assistance by the Dallas Bar Association, which he rejected at that time. (b.. Newspaper, radio, and television reporters were allowed uninhibited access to the area through which Oswald had to pass when he was moved from his cell to the interrogation room and other sections of the building, thereby subjecting Oswald to harassment and creating chaotic conditions which were not conducive to orderly interrogation or the protection of the rights of the prisoner. © The numerous statements, sometimes erroneous, made to the press by various local law enforcement officials, during this period of confusion and disorder in the police station, would have presented serious obstacles to the obtaining of a fair trial for Oswald. To the extent that the information was erroneous or misleading, it helped to create doubts, speculations, and fears in the mind of the public which might otherwise not have arisen. (explain what this has to do with EVIDENCE against Oswald for the murder of JFK) 8. The Commission has reached the following conclusions concerning the killing of Oswald by Jack Ruby on November 24, 1963 (this has what to do with proving Oswald’s guilt or the killing of JFK?) 9. The Commission has found no evidence that either Lee Harvey Oswald or Jack Ruby was part of any conspiracy, domestic or foreign, to assassinate President Kennedy (this has what to do with proving Oswald’s guilt or the killing of JFK?) 10. In its entire investigation the Commission has found no evidence of conspiracy, subversion, or disloyalty to the U.S. Government by any Federal, State, or local official (this has what to do with proving Oswald’s guilt or the killing of JFK?) 11. On the basis of the evidence before the Commission it concludes that Oswald acted alone What evidence shows that he did anything on the 6th floor at all? Hoover on Dec 12, 1963: I said I personally believe Oswald was the assassin; that the second aspect as to whether he was the only man gives me great concern; that we have several letters, not in the report because we were not able to prove it, written to him from Cuba referring to the job he was going to do, his good marksmanship, and stating when it was all over he would be brought back to Cuba and presented to the chief; but we do not know if the chief was Castro and cannot make an investigation because we have no intelligence operation in Cuba; that I did not put this into the report because we did not have proof of it and didn't want to put speculation in the report; that this was the reason I urged strongly that we not reach conclusion Oswald was the only man. The FBI report from Dec 9th: On the contrary, the data developed strongly indicates that he acted on his own initiative or impulse with little advance planning. 12. (f) Within these limitations, however, the Commission finds that the (SS) agents most immediately responsible for the President’s safety reacted promptly at the time the shots were fired from the TSBD. So here is a photo of Greer "reacting promptly" at the time of the shots to protect POTUS... You think this is indicative of the other conclusions these esteemed men found? The DVPs of the world want us to believe we live in Utopia... Snowden, reflecting the activities of these men for the past 80 years, is not to be believed... he must have made it all up the US GOV'T could not possibly be organized enough, competent enough or what ever other descriptive term DVP wants to throw out - to have pulled this and all the other covert activities off. He would have us believe that a man who wasn't there, with a rifle that wasn't there, firing bullets that weren't there, missed once and yet hits twice causing all the damage to these men. That the witnesses were all mass hypnotized into saying the same things and signing the same statements... That Truly forgets he saw OSwald, supposedly, with Baker on the 2nd Floor... yet within 20 minutes is able to say he, and he alone is gone. You see Jon, by making it an open discussion, he believes that his end of the argument is still valid. That there is still some mystery related to the conspiracy that took place and the OPTION that Oswald did it alone, did not know Ruby or Ferrie or Shaw or Bannister is still viable. So every once in a while we need to post the simple stuff. The conclusions above which are so poor and have nothing to do with proving anything. Or the FBI's report which has chapters on BEFORE the Assassination.. and AFTER the Assassination... just not a whole lot ABOUT the assassination. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10402

Guess he picked a real good time to leave... Fonzi's The Last Investigation: Based on background and character alone, Silvia and Annie highly were highly credible. Nevertheless, the subsequent heavy checking I did of their story absolutely convinced me they were telling the truth. One of the major factors was that Silvia Odio had told more than one person of the incident before the Kennedy assassination. She wrote to her father in prison and told him of the visit of the three strangers. The Warren Commission obtained a copy of his reply warning her to he careful because he did not know them. I spoke to Amador Odio himself. He and his wife were released from Cuban prison a few years ago and are also living in Miami now. No longer wealthy (he was working at night in a low manager's job for an airline),but still proud and idealistic, a handsome old gentleman who exudes a quite dignity, he confirmed receiving the letter from Silvia and his reply. More specifically, Dr. Burton Einspruch, the psychiatrist who was counseling Silvia at the time, recalled that she had him prior to the assassination of the visit of the two Latins and the American and that he remembered calling her on the day of the assassination. He said she mentioned "Leon" and in what he called "a sort of histrionic way," connected he visit of "Leon'- to the Kennedy assassination