David Josephs
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Posts posted by David Josephs
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3 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:
David,
STEVE - OTHER THAN TYING THE NAME TO OSWALD, WHAT OTHER POSSIBLE USE WAS THERE FOR THESE ID CARDS???
I JUST READ THAT WHEN ARRESTED IN AUGUST IN NEW ORLEANS, OUR MAN OSWALD DID NOT HAVE ANY ALEK HIDELL IDs ON HIM... NOR DID THE NAME COME UP OTHER THAN ON THE SIGNED FPCC CARD FROM JUNE 15 63. (THE INSET IS FROM THE HIDEEL VACCINATION - SAME TYPESET)
"ALIAS: "
SO WHAT HAPPENS IN OSWALD'S LIFE BETWEEN AUGUST 9, 1963 AND NOV 22 1963 THAT REQUIRES THIS ID TO BE CREATED - IF WE ASSUME IT WAS HE WHO DID SO?
HIDELL ID WOULD NOT LET THE POST OFFICE RELEASE THE RIFLE... IT WAS OSWALD'S PO BOX AND NO OTHERS WERE DESIGNATED TO RECEIVE MAIL... OSWALD WOULD NEED OSWALD ID TO GET THINGS ADDRESSED TO HIM BUT NOT IN THE BOX... AT REA? SAME DEAL THERE... REA SENDS A CARD TO THE OSWALD PO BOX SO THAT HIDELL CAN COME GET HIS PACKAGE... IF ADDRESSED TO HIDELL, THE POST OFFICE MIGHT DELIVER IT TO THE BOX, OR IT WOULD BE RETURNED TO SENDER AS AN UN-DELIVERABLE ADDRESS.
EITHER WAY... WHAT PURPOSE IS SERVED BY THOSE CARDS OTHER THAN TO ORDER THIS MERCHANDISE ?
CE 811 is the back side of Oswald's Selective Service Classification. It's grouped with CE 812, the USMC Certificate of Service
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=718&tab=page
Eyes: Blue
Height 5'11”
THIS WOULD BE THE ONE TRUE DOCUMENT BELONGING TO LEE
CE 796, and 797 is Alek Hidell's SS Notice of Classification:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=708&tab=page
Eyes: Grey
Height 5'9”
card is signed
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=709&tab=page
IS CE 798 WHICH IS 796/7 BUT AFTER THE INK STAININGSTEVE - IF THE FBI AND CADIGAN USES INK ON THIS CARD BETWEEN 11/22 AND 11/26... HOW CAN IT BE AT THE DPD DURING OSWALD'S QUESTIONING ON THE 23RD?
Selective Service Card in the name of Lee Harvey Oswald
CE 802
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=713&tab=page
ink stained and not signed
ONCE AGAIN - LEE OSWALD ORIGINAL DOCUMENT
USMC Certificate of Service
Lee Harvey Oswald: CE 812
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=718&tab=page
Period of Active Duty: 24 October 1956 to 11 September 1959
ONCE AGAIN - LEE OSWALD ORIGINAL DOCUMENT
USMC Certificate of Service
Alek James Hidell:
CE 806, 807, 808, 809, and 810
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=715&tab=page
CE 810 Certificate of Service
Period of Active Duty: Oct 15 1958 to Oct 12 1959? (only one year in the service?)
STEVE - CE804 (CE 804 - Retouched negative of the face of a Selective Service System notice of classication card.) IS A BLANK VERSION OF THE FAKED SSS N OF C WITH A SPACE FOR A PHOTO... AND NOT A RETOUCHED NEGATIVE AT ALL... THE TEXT WAS SHRUNK TO MAKE ROOM FOR A PHOTO YET WHAT BOTHERS ME MOST IS WHOEVER CREATED THE FAKE HIDELL VERSION HAD TO USE A BLANK TO START SINCE THE OSWALD ORIGINAL HAS SIGNATURE LINES THRU THAT TEXT...THRU THE WORD "VIOLATION". WHEREAS THE FAKED VERSION IS CLEAN... THAT THERE WOULD BE A BLANK VERSION OF A BLATANTLY FAKE ID WHICH WOULD BE NEEDED TO CREATE THE FINAL PRODUCT ... AND IT IS IN EVIDENCE SEEMS VERY STRANGE TO ME... THOUGHTS?
Steve Thomas
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John lists 5 different wallets for Oswald
Westbrook's
Bentley's3-4) On November 26 Ruth Paine voluntarily turned over to the Dallas Police a red billfold (FBI Ex.#382)
and a brown wallet(FBI Ex.#114) which she said belonged to Oswald.and a black plastic wallet....
The inventory lists offer the following... the wallet they placed into evidence was neither the WESTBROOK or the ARREST wallet...
If the BROWN BILLFOLD was taken off of Oswald by BENTLEY or found at the TIPPIT scene by WESTBROOK...
it wouldn't be designated an IRVING item but like the belt it would have been (OSWALD'S PERSON)
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7 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:
Note item 2 on the list above. It reads as follows: “Selective Service Notice of Classification SSN 41-114-30-532.” It is the ONLY SS Notice of Classification listed by the Dallas cops in Oswald’s wallet.
The list that contains "LETTER/#" designations for the evidence is a FBI DOCUMENT...WCD345 I believe...
3 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:Some questions:
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If the Selective Service Card was in Oswald's wallet, and the wallet was in police possession on the 22nd, why, during his official interrogation on the 22nd, wasn't Oswald asked about it until only the 23rd.?
BENTLEY SAYS HE GAVE IT TO TL BAKER ON 11/22 WHEN THEY GOT TO THE DPD... BAKER DOES NOT COOROBORATE
FBI SA CLEMENTS LISTS IT ON HIS INVENTORY DATED "ON 11/22" AND "DICTATED 11/23" WHICH SUGGESTS TO ME THE FBI WAS AWARE OF THIS ON THE 22ND (BUT THEN AGAIN THIS COULD BE BACK-DATED) clements NOTES IT IS A "PHOTO" OF THE CARD, NOT THE CARD ITSELF
IF THEY HAD THIS IN THEIR POSSESSION AT THIS POINT, THERE IS LITERALLY NO EXCUSE FOR NOT ASKING HIM ABOUT IT
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If, as Bookhout said, the card was in the name of Alek James Hidell, why did Rose say the card said “A. Hidell”? (Which just happens to be the name the rifle is ordered under. See below.
BECAUSE IT WAS ALL FABRICATED EVIDENCE AFTER THE FACT WITH ROSE/STOVALL AT THE CENTER OF THE BS -
Did Fritz ask Oswald about the Selective Service card, or did this mysterious person Fritz called, “B.O.”? (whom I believe was James Bookhout)?
Fritz said Bookhout asked him about the card. Kelley said Fritz was the one who asked about the card. Bookhout couldn't remember who asked about the card. What's going on here?
LIARS TRYING TO KEEP STORIES STRAIGHT... GOES BACK TO WHY HOSTY WOULD BRING THIS UP IN HIS BOOK AT ALL...-
Why, if Fritz had the Selective Service card in his hand and showed it to Oswald, did he mis-spell the name as “Heidel” in his Interrogation Notes.?
BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE IT AT THE TIME HE FINALLY GOT AROUND TO CREATING THESE "CONTEMPORANEOUS NOTES" -
Did Oswald “deny” that the Hidell signature was his, or did he simple “not admit” that the signature was his? There is a slight difference in interpretation here. An hour later, at 12:30 on the morning of the 23rd., Oswald was claiming that the pictures of him with a rifle were forgeries. Was he claiming that the Hidell signature on the Selective Service card was a forgery too?
WHAT HE SAID... OR WHAT THEY SAID HE SAID ??? I FEEL THAT TERMINOLOGY MINUTAE MAY BE TAKING THIS A BIT TOO FAR... THOSE NOTES AND WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAID ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE -
Why would Oswald admit to having the card, but deny the signature was his? What is the logic here? What is he trying to tell us?
EXACTLY, SO WHY DO WE BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAID? THEY SAID HE "SAID" HE TOOK A BUS ALL THE WAY TO THE THEATER... UNTIL HE WAS REMINDED OF THE CAB RIDE... OY. -
There is no record of Oswald ever using the card as identification for anything. The only times I can remember the identity of Hidell being associated with Oswald is in his efforts to infiltrate, or someone else planting the implication of Oswald being associated with communism; and tying Oswald to the rifle ordered from Klein's.
EXACTLY - WE ARE CURRENTLY ON THE HUNT FOR WHERE AND WHEN THE NAME HIDELL WAS FIRST ASSOCIATED WITH OSWALD... NOT WHEN ITEMS OF EVIDENCE WITH HIDELL ON THEM WERE CONTEMPORANEOUS, LIKE A MARCH DATE FOR THE ORDER COUPON WITH HIDELL ON IT... IF THIS WAS CREATED AFTER THE FACT, THE DATE RELATED TO THE NAME IS WORTHLESS...
NAGELL CALIMS HE USED THE NAME HIDELL - BUT LIKE ELSSWORTH'S INFO, ONLY HE SAYS SO...
MARINA SAYS IT WAS A RIFF ON FIDEL FOR ALL HIS "CUBA ACTIVITY" IN NEW ORLEANS
VACINNATION BY DR. A J HIDEEL IS SUPPOSEDLY USED FOR THE RETURN TRIP FROM MEXICO AND IS DATED JUNE 8 63
A JUNE 1961 PHOTO OF HARVEY SIGNED "ALEK"
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32 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:
Gerald Hill's Report to Curry for November 22, 1963 does not contain Captain Westbrook's name or signature or Carrol's. There is no combined Carroll/Hill Report with Westbrooks name for signature
100% correct buddy...
Westbrook's office appears to have been THE place to be after the arrest...
Mr. BALL. Where did you go?
Mr. CARROLL. I went into the police personnel office.
Mr. BALL. Who went In there with you?
Mr. CARROLL. There was Jerry Hill, Ray Hawkins, McDonald, Hutson, Bentley, Lyons, and myself. Oh, by the way, Lyons was in the car with us also when we came from the theatre to the police department. I don't remember whether he was sitting In the front or back seat, though, but he did come down with us. Lyons had sprained his ankle and Paul Bentley also had sprained his ankle, and shortly after we went into the police personnel office Lyons and Bentley left and went to Parkland to have their legs checked and taken care of.Baker writes in his report of his activities that Fritz sends cops to 1026 Beckley at 2:30 with explanation of how that address was discovered... the Library card you speak of includes the ELSBETH address - which is of course an Oak Cliff address...... There is a W 5th Street address in Ft Worth on one of the items, so Steve... you are correct, nothing in the wallet offered in evidence provides his address in Irving (or on Beckley) and the MARINE PHOTO wallet disappears with SIMS and HICKS until we see this:
SIMS gives the stuff to HICKS, photos are made and it's all returned to SIMS... Friday evening at 5:30pm.... and yet for the rest of that evening, a 1:30am arraignment, and a morning interrogation... and we STILL do not hear a thing about HIDELL or the obvious fake ID... {sigh}
You'll also notice in Appendix 11 that CLEMENTS acknowledges the SSS card with photo is not the actual card, but a PHOTO....
"Photo of SSS card with photo of OSWALD...."
And yet again, with this ID in hand at the DPD at 2pm 11/22.... the first question related to HIDELL finally comes in the early afternoon of the 23rd.... still well before a Postal Money Order is created by Harold Marks and Robert Jackson of the US Postal Service Archive section.... (even though J. Harold Marks is a FINANCE OFFICER... and Robert Jackson a "Management Analyst who delivers the PMO) but seems to come at about the time Harry Holmes finds the booklet of PMOs and the stub from the Oswald/Hidell purchase.... (NOT!)...
While Holmes tells us they have the PMO in hand by noon-1 o'clock Saturday... SS/FBI reports tell a different story
So was the evidence which shows the rifle ordered in Hidell's name to bolster the case against him... uses an alias to buy the assassination rifle (that he leaves it and a paper trail to his doorstep after the shooting while vehemently denying involvement speaks volumes.)
RCNagell later claims to have had in his possession two Mexican tourist visas, one under the name "Joseph Kramer" and one under the name of "Albert" or "Aleksei Hidell."
But as far as I can tell - he is the only source of that info
The only ARREST REPORT with the terminology suggested
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Thanks Steve... I believe you are correct...
5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:The WC testimony of Elmer Boyd, and the Report of Thomas Kelley of the SS both mention Bookhout as being present.
No one mentions Owens and the way B.O. and Bookout are written on Fritz1 does indeed suggest they are the same...
What threw me was the " BO + me" which I interpreted as someone "with" Fritz as opposed to the FBI or SS.
The important thing is the sequence of events... Hill puts the discovery of HIDELL in the car on the way to the DPD...
And he also made the statement that there was some more identification in this other name which I don't remember, but it was the same name that later came in the paper that he bought the gun under.
Mr. BELIN. Would the name Hidell mean anything? Alek Hidell?
Mr. HILL. That would be similar. I couldn't say specifically that is what it was, because this was a conversation and I never did see it written down, but that sounds like the name that I heard.
Mr. BELIN. Was this the first time you learned of the name?
Mr. HILL. Yes; it was.1:52 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) Suspect on the shooting the police officer is apprehended and en route to the station. 1:52 Dispatcher We had a shooting of a police officer which was DOA at Methodist. The suspect has been apprehended at Texas Theater and en route to the station. Hill and the others are requested to make a statement, have it typed and sign it.... but then something strange happens related to the Arrest Report for the Tippit murder:
And at about this point Captain Westbrook suggested that I change the heading of my report to include arrest of the suspect in the assassination of the President and in the murder of Officer J. D. Tippit, which I did.
When we got it back ready to sign, Carroll and I were sitting there, and it had Captain Westbrook's name for signature, and added a paragraph about he and the FBI agent being there, and not seeing that it made any difference, I went ahead and signed the report.
Actually, they were there, but I didn't make any corrections.
And as far as the report, didn't allege what they did, but had added a paragraph to our report to include the fact that he was there, and also that the FBI agent was there.
Now as to why this was done, your guess is as good as mine.Arrest Report On Investigative Prisoner, by an unknown author. Arrest report identifies Oswald as the assassin of President John F. Kennedy and Police Officer J. D. Tippit, (Photocopy), 11/22/63. 00001383 1 page 05 02 086 1383-001.gif
30. Arrest Report On Investigative Prisoner, by M. M. McDonald. Arrest report identifies Oswald as the assassin of President John F. Kennedy and Police Officer J. D. Tippit, (Photocopy Poor Quality), 11/22/63. 00002183 1 page 07 02 030 2183-001.gif
These are both the same document
Hill goes on: Mr. HILL. Paul Bentley called off two addresses. One, as I recall, in Irving, and another one in Oak Cliff, when he was reading from information inside the suspect's billfold. But neither of these addresses was an address on 10th or on Beckley.
Ok, so he mentions the 2 addresses... what about the 2 different identification names? (BTW - Paul Bentley was not called to Testify)
From my paper on the pistol we also know that TL BAKER was acting a bit wonky.... BENTLEY says he gave TL BAKER Oswald's ID and in turn BAKER tells Fritz they have LEE OSWALD in custody... BAKER does not mention a 2nd person's identification with Oswald's photo.
When Oswald's ID is turned into the DPD on a CSSS we SHOULD see TL BAKER'S signature and a time between 2pm and 3pm? Except we don't have those things at all, what we have is RM SIMS and JB HICKS with Oswald's ID cards, addresses and ONE BILLFOLD which is not entered into evidence until 5:30pm...
HICKS is not asked about this form which effectively ends the chain of custody for this wallet and contents... SIMS offers nothing in relation to OSWALD'S ID & BILLFOLD....
Mr. STERN. Now, the search in which you participated of Oswald at 4:05 on Friday, just before the first showup---you have told us that either you or Mr. Boyd found five live rounds of .38 caliber pistol shells, and a bus transfer slip, and an identification bracelet, according to your memorandum--
Mr. STERN. Do you remember anything else that was found on Oswald at that time? (
Mr. SIMS. No, sir; I don't remember anything else.
Mr. STERN. A wallet or identification card?
Mr. SIMS. No, sir; that had been taken off of him.
Mr. STERN. That had been taken off of him upon his arrest at the time of his arrest?
Mr. SIMS. Well, I don't know when, but he didn't have it on.
Continuing on.... the DPD had notebooks listing evidence taken in alphabetical while also identifying WHERE THE ITEM CAME FROM...
Items taken off of Oswald's person are listed as such...
Items found in the rooms at Irving, or Beckley are also listed as such...
Why does the BROWN BILLFOLD say "(IRVING)" when it was taken from Oswald's person by Bentley and given to TL BAKER (per Bentley)?
Which wallet is being represented on that CSSS form with SIMS/HICKS?
And the $64,000 Q.... Why is OSWALD not asked about HIDELL IDENTIFICATION found by BENTLEY at 2pm Nov 22nd and given to TL Baker so that he can tell FRITZ the man's name related to the TIPPIT case... until the 23rd?
In a previous post I had both the B1 Exhibit listing the contents of his wallet and the CLEMENTS report also detailing the contents of the wallet... Both refer to this wallet as the one with the MARINE GROUP PHOTO.
I will post again here but we need to look at a few things...
First, CLEMENTS' 2nd item is not a SSS CARD, but a "Photo of..." doesn't this mean they knew it was not a real ID Card?
Second, B1 lists 3 photos ... CLEMENTS lists 2 photos "Snapshot photo of woman, apparently wife... Snapshot photo of infant"What's missing? The Marine Group Photo ...
WCD443 is a large batch of photos shown to Marina for ID... there are only 2 photos which it could...
P3 is a photo with Roscoe White with hands on hips... Marina says this is a photo of "Oswald's Friends from Japan"
and this one found http://www.jfklancer.com/bymain.html ... I do not know if this was in the wallet
Our next photograph only just qualifies for inclusion here, but it does show Oswald with what is undoubtedly a rifle. The photograph shows a group of about ten Marines relaxing somewhere apparently in the Far East. They are on a beach with palm trees in the background. As in the preceding USMC photograph, Oswald is the central figure. He is sitting cross-legged, wearing Marines fatigues. He is facing left and, like his companions, he is wearing a forage cap. In the foreground, at Oswald's feet, are his helmet and his rifle. Edward Jay Epstein has identified Oswald's fellow Marines as Godfrey Jerome Daniels, George A. Wilkins, Jr., Zack Stout, Bobby J. Warren and James R. Parsons. He states that none of these men was ever questioned by either the Warren Commission or the FBI
The point remains, A wallet taken from the IRVING HOME is referred to as the MARINE GROUP PHOTO wallet on both the DPD index and FBI/DPD combined list of evidence.... YET, this photo appears NOT to have been in the wallet HOSTY/CLEMMENTS/etc review and write their report on.
Records (a TL BAKER report where he refers to himself in the 3rd person) show BENTLEY giving Lt. BAKER the IDhe took from Oswald during the car ride from the Theater on which is claimed a 2nd name is associated with Oswald... Alek HIDELL
CSSS form shows SIMS entering the billfold, photos and id's into evidence by giving them to HICKS at 5:30pm 11/22... with no recourse back to Lt. TL BAKER. Neither man's reporting or testimony supports this happening or which wallet this refers to... if even Oswald's.
James Bookout ("B.O." - not CB OWENS) finally asks Oswald about the HIDELL ID sometime in the afternoon or evening of 11/23...
If TL Baker has the wallet during the interrogation... what happened to the HIDELL ID?
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For "BO" to ask Oswald about "HIDELL" as having been on ID in his wallet (per FBI SA Manning Clements), the inventory listed in Clements' report must have been correct...
I hope to show here that it seems virtually impossible for both ID's to have been seen on the 23rd, just in time to match Klein's production of the Hidell Money Order....
another provably fabricated item of evidence....===
Assuming that someone at DPD did see the HIDELL "SS Notice of Classification" along with all the other items in the wallet...
We need to look back to the chain of possession:
- In 1996 after Hosty's book, Croy claims to have given a wallet he found to Westbrook
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Westbrook shows a wallet with HIDELL ID at the Tippit scene (from H&L)
But Capt. Westbrook had a very good reason for driving to 10th & Patton. It was there, at the murder scene, that Westbrook showed fellow police officers the wallet ..... Identification in this wallet would identify "Lee Harvey Oswald" as the prime suspect in the murder of officer Tippit. Identification for "Alek Hidell," also found in this wallet, would link Oswald/Hidell to the rifle found on the 6th floor of the Book Depository. There were now many police and dozens and dozens of on-lookers at 10th & Patton with whom Westbrook could mingle.
A few minutes later, at 1:42 PM, crime lab officers George Doughty, W.E. Barnes, and Paul Bentley arrived and inspected the wallet produced by Westbrook. FBI Agent Bob Barrett arrived, parked his car, and walked toward Tippit's patrol car. Barrett explained, "I went on over there and Captain Westbrook was there with several of his officers.... It hadn't been very long when Westbrook looked up and saw me and called me over. He had this wallet in his hand. Now, I don't know where he found it, but he had the wallet in his hand... the wallet was there. There's no getting around that. Westbrook had the wallet in his hand and asked me if I knew who these people were. I'm adamant that there was a wallet in somebody's hand and Westbrook asked me if I knew who 'Lee Harvey Oswald' was and who 'Hidell' were."
As Westbrook showed the wallet to Barrett and fellow DPD officers, WFAA-TV Channel 8 news photographer Ron Reiland filmed the wallet. Sgt. Bud Owens was holding the wallet while Capt. Doughty was looking at the wallet.
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Oswald is arrested and is back at DPD by 2pm where Doughty, Barnes, & Bentley also ultimately wind up with Westbrook and Hill.
It should now be widely known that the man in custody has 2 ID's, one SSS card with Oswald AND NO PHOTO while the other SSS card is for Hidell WITH A PHOTO
The real SSS cards do NOT have a photo
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Notes are taken at the interrogations which take place on the 22nd, all day the 23rd and the morning of the 24th
Kelley, Hosty, Bookout, Clemments and someone called "B. O."
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As shown above, Clemments informs us that the interrogation included questions about the contents of his wallet... (there was a RED wallet from Irving, the wallet on Oswald when he was arrested and THIS wallet...)
Clemments lists the contents of the wallet which matches the FBI's "B1" list except for the real SSS card which is listed twice... first on the initial page next to the fake one yet is not called a SSS card this time... and then 2 pages later when it is called out as a SS No. card....
It is important to note that the DPD would now be looking at 2 pieces of ID which conflict with each other... one with a photo and one without...
yet also listed in the contents is his USMC Cert of Service #4,271,617 which also has a photo on it...
Yet if you look... they are the same photo.. and even worse... the photo is of Oswald from MINSK.
Are we to believe - that despite having these items in their possession - or at least awareness of their existence... Oswald was not asked about the 2 identities until the afternoon of the 23rd? and then by someone Fritz calls "B.O." Best we could figure out - since Bardum Odum is not listed on the FBI list of Interrogation attendees - is this must be Bud Owens given the interrogation was initially related to Tippit's murder...
I am guessing that Fritz used the initials BO since the HIDELL ID would be side by side with Oswald's real ID since there is one and only one wallet EVER mentioned containing identification:
Mr. HILL. That was the second question that was asked the suspect, and he didn't answer it, either.
About the time I got through with the radio transmission, I asked Paul Bentley, "Why don't you see if he has any identification."
Paul was sitting sort of sideways in the seat, and with his right hand he reached down and felt of the suspect's left hip pocket and said, "Yes, he has a billfold," and took it out.
I never did have the billfold in my possession, but the name Lee Oswald was called out by Bentley from the back seat, and said this identification, I believe, was on the library card.
And he also made the statement that there was some more identification in this other name which I don't remember, but it was the same name that later came in the paper that he bought the gun under.
Mr. BELIN. Would the name Hidell mean anything? Alek Hidell?
Mr. HILL. That would be similar. I couldn't say specifically that is what it was, because this was a conversation and I never did see it written down, but that sounds like the name that I heard.
Mr. BELIN. Was this the first time you learned of the name?
Mr. HILL. Yes; it was.
Mr. BELIN. All right; when did you learn of his address?
Mr. HILL. There were two different addresses on the identification.
One of them was in Oak Cliff. The other one was in Irving. But as near as I can recall of the conversation in the car, this was strictly conversation, because I didn't read any of the stuff. It didn't have an address on Beckley, that I recall hearing.
Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this. Now from the time you got in the car to the time you got to the station, I believe you said that at least the second question asked was where do you live, and the man didn't answer?
Mr. HILL. The man didn't answer.
Mr. BELIN. Was he ever asked again where he lived, up to the time you got to the station?
Mr. HILL. No; I don't believe so, because when Bentley got the identification out, we had two different addresses. We had two different names, and the comment was made, "I guess we are going to have to wait until we get to the station to find out who he actually is."
After about the time Bentley reached in his pocket and got his billfold,
Mr. BELIN. At any time up to the time you left, did you ever get any address on the suspect as to where he lived other than the statement of Captain Fritz that he had this address on Fifth Street somewhere in Irving?
Mr. HILL. Paul Bentley called off two addresses. One, as I recall, in Irving, and another one in Oak Cliff, when he was reading from information inside the suspect's billfold. But neither of these addresses was an address on 10th or on Beckley.
As to exactly what they were, I don't recall, as I didn't see the identification.
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It is not until many, many years later that we learn of the CROY>WESTBROOK wallet, (thanks I understand to Dale Myers?) and his re-questioning of Barrett and Croy http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2014/03/solving-tippit-murders-wallet-mystery.html
Dale appears to conclude that the TV wallet and archive wallets are not the same...
- The wallet seen in the WFAA-TV news film is similar in style to Oswald’s arrest wallet, however, they are clearly not identical – period. It’s not even close. In particular, the newsfilm wallet has a leather flap that is square, while Oswald’s arrest wallet flap is rounded. In addition, the news film wallet is obviously thinner and more worn than Oswald’s arrest wallet.
- Kenneth H. Croy told me in 2009 that the wallet turned over to him at the Tippit shooting scene had seven or so identification cards in it, and that none were in the name of Oswald. Why then did Croy think the wallet was Oswald’s? Croy’s belief that the wallet was Oswald’s was based on an assumption that Tippit’s killer dropped the wallet, and that since Oswald was later arrested for Tippit’s murder, the wallet must have been his. Croy told me that he had no first hand knowledge that the wallet contained anything that connected it to suspect Oswald.
- FBI agent Robert Barrett did not know how police got the wallet or where it was found. He never handled the wallet or saw the identification cards in it. His recollection was that Captain Westbrook was holding a wallet while at the scene and asked him (Barrett) at the scene about the names Oswald and Hidell.
- FBI agent Barrett returned to Dallas police headquarters following Oswald’s arrest to make sure the arrest report contained information that Oswald’s civil rights were not violated at the theater and subsequently was in contact with officers, including Westbrook, who had learned Oswald’s wallet contained two names – Oswald and Hidell. Was this what Barrett was recalling? Barrett says no.
- FBI agent Barrett was known by fellow agents as being one who put meticulous details in his reports, the kind of details other agents usually overlooked. Barrett’s contemporary report of his activities on November 22, 1963, fails to mention the wallet, as does his 1975 testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee during which he recounted his activities that day.
- Both Barrett and Croy’s recollections are based on thirty to forty-year-old memories. None of their contemporary reports or testimony mention the recovery of Oswald’s wallet – a highly curious oversight given the significance both men now attach to the discovery. Croy’s latter claims about the wallet are particularly suspect given that he was first reportedly interview about it in 2005 by conspiracy advocate Jones Harris, seven years after the publication of With Malice.
- It certainly appears strange that the same key players: Westbrook, Croy and Hill (who transferred to Westbrook's squad about the same time Oswald started working at the TSBD) are so involved in virtually every aspect of that day's activities and we have the Captain and a Detective for Personnel Division and an unscheduled Reservist handing virtually all of the most incriminating evidence from that day...
Hill is pretty adamant about NOT seeing a wallet or any ID... Seems he senses something wrong with WESTBROOK and what's going on, but that's only a hunch.
The dates on the FBI reports are the dates... whether accurate and true... who knows yet as of the 23rd DPD HQ was aware that their man in custody had ID offering 2 different names... It just seems to me that anyone with a brain could see these ID's conflicted,,, or they didn't and HIDELL's ID with Oswald's image was created by someone else...
Possibly Harvey himself... yet the DPD had recently added a quite adept photo manipulator by the name of Roscoe White...
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Been speaking with John about the inventory from the DPD to FBI and back again...
250 items leave, 455 numbered items return... WCD345 is the FBI "unofficial inventory" yet it matches the numbered inventories and the lettered inventories exactly...
The focus has been the wallet and the HIDELL ID...
There is only 1 wallet in evidence said to contain anything of importance...
This wallet is NOT listed in the 455 items but is listed as "B1" with all its contents NOT listed separately, but under B1.
There are "A, B, C, & D" lists of evidence... the "D" list of evidence appears to be a variety of documents specifically related to Oswald and Marina... the SS Notice truly seems out of place on this list...
Since it was not in the 1 wallet in custody, and there was no other wallet turned in... one has to wonder about the chain of custody for D71...
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10746#relPageId=37&tab=page
What you will not find on the HIDELL items is the DPD inventory check from the night of 11/22 ... Items that came back from FBI in DC on the 26th that were not at the DPD 11/22 will not have this notation
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I wonder what they think was so "pertinent" ??
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10 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:
David,
Have you read Croy's WC testimony closely? Can you make heads or tails of exactly which affidavit they are talking about?
I like this part:
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that prepared by hand?
Mr. CROY. Yes, it was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you responsible for getting the typing done?
Mr. CROY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who did you turn that report over to?
Mr. CROY. Captain Solomon.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then was it his responsibility to get the typing done?
Mr. CROY. I don't know. I just turned it in. What he did with it, I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did it eventually come back to you?
Mr. CROY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The typed copy never came back to you?
Mr. CROY. No.The DPD brass didn't like what he had to say and had him come back and do another one.
Mr. CROY. No; well, I will put it this way, that it took us 8 hours to get that up. That is how interested they were.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You talked with them for 8 hours?
Mr. CROY. On 2 different occasions. That day and the next day, for 4 hours each day. That is pretty interesting.Mr. CROY. No; we talked the entire thing over, and after we talked everything over and they brought the stenographer in and we went back over it again, then I left and she typed it up, and I came in the next day and we went back over it again and back over it and so on.
Mr. CROY. What it was, the stenographer took it, and then she typed it up. Then the next day I went back down there and they re-read it to me and went over and over and over and over the same thing over and over again. And then I took it into Lieutenant Curtis and signed it and had it notarized.
Steve Thomas
Pretty sure they are talking about this... I've done some searching and cannot find the handwritten version... yet
DJ
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2 hours ago, Tom Neal said:
As it says in your own post "Ron Bulman said," not me. I DO agree with Ron that Croy was a "wanna be" cop trying to find away onto the 'professional' full time force. IMO as a Reservist of 4 years, he would still be considered quite a 'small fish' within the DPD. Perhaps his minor league status was ample incentive to join the plot and as a reward be ushered into full time status with sponsorship from Captain Westbrook.
FWIW
Lt. Ben McCoy is credited with calling up the RESERVES the DPD requested...
Lt. McCoy reported to Captain ARNETT
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember who gave you these instructions that you are talking about?
Mr. ARNETT. It seems like it was Captain Lawrence, but I couldn't swear to that, but it's----Mr. GRIFFIN. And you are employed with the Dallas Police Department, is that right?
Mr. ARNETT. No. I am a captain on the reserve.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, will you explain what the difference is between the reserve and the police department?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes sir. Reserves were established about 10 or 11 years ago, to assist in, say, tornadoes or, you know, something that came up that they needed more help in to be trained on that. We don't draw any pay from the Dallas Police Department at all.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who does pay you?
Mr. . ARNETT. Nobody.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This is a completely voluntary thing on your part?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.So Croy unilaterally decides to just "Go Home"
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you at the scene when Tippit was there?
Mr. CROY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Unassigned?
Mr. CROY. Yes.He doesn't seem to know what or where he was... lol
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you in a patrol car
Mr. CROY. No; I was on foot.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you in uniform?
Mr. CROY. In uniform.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where were you at the time President Kennedy was shot?
Mr. CROY. Sitting in my car at the city hall.Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, after the Tippit--how long did you remain at the scene of the Tippit killing?
Mr. CROY. Oh, I would say a good 30 minutes. Thirty or forty minutes, something like that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then where did you go?
Mr. CROY. Home. I went to eat.
Mr. CROY. Well, I didn't go home. I went to eat.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you go to eat?
Mr. CROY. Austin Barbecue.https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1137#relPageId=509&tab=page
LAWRENCE EXH #2 is the list of assignments for Nov 22... There is plenty of info on CROY for the 24th... but not the 22nd.
He is listed here yet this is related to Oswald and the 24th... Croy's affidavit does not mention any activities from the 22nd.. despite his testimony claiming he was downtown, at the Tippit scene, at the Texas Theater and eats at Austin's...
How many coincidences can there be?
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8 hours ago, Ken Rheberg said:
But they weren't on the bench. By then they were standing at the top of the stairs.
Then pointing them out in Moorman should be easy....
they should be as obvious as the man standing in that spot at the bottom left of this graphic... but I don’t see them in Moorman
I see trees and leaves and sky...
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2 hours ago, Mark Lawson said:
It is interesting that Tatum reported: "Both the police car and the young man were heading east [emphasis added] on Tenth Street...." That would of course be in the opposite direction of the Texas Theater.
I seem to recall that another witness also reported the "Oswald" character to be headed east at the time he was approached by Tippit. ML
This is simply not a true account of from where the man was coming... yet at some p[oint the man turns back towards the east and walks away from Tippit's car... Given Tippit could have stopped anywhere... is it pure coincidence he's on the same street where he's known as "Friendly" so many miles from his patrol area? The same driveway where his mistress lives?
Tatum is also the only one to talk about the shot to the head... shot #4. how anyone else there misses this is beyond me.
The real timing problem they do not discuss is getting Oswald from 1026 Beckley to 404 E 10th in 5 minutes... can't be done.
Or countering Butch Burroughs selling Oswald popcorn at his theater prior to 1:10...Tatum does not see the 2 men until the shooter is at the car... by then he was walking east but as Markham said, the police car caught up to him as IT traveled East...
Scoggins tells us from which direction the man was coming. From all telling of it... it seems this person was walking WEST in from DENVER St.
S. Ewing is even a few streets further EAST than Denver/Patton.... LEE was seen at this barber show virtually around the corner from RUBY and down the street from Harry & Kay Olsen (ex Ruby Stripper and DPD cop with injured leg)
The FBI tries to make it sound like 10th and S Ewing is "some distance" and reiterates how Oswald lived on BECKLEY... what they don't say is that RUBY lived at 223 S Ewing....
Mr. SCOGGINS. I noticed he stopped down there, and I wasn't paying too much attention to the man, you see, just used to see him every day, but then I kind of looked down the street, saw this, someone, that looked to me like he was going west, now, I couldn't exactly say whether he was going west or was in the process of turning around, but he was facing west when I saw him.
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1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:
Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.
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11 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:
And since the wallet indicates that the pre-planned assassination of Tippit was designed to implicate “Lee Harvey Oswald” in the crime, would the plotters utilize someone to kill Tippit who didn’t look at all like Oswald? Benavides, the witness closest to the crime, thought it was committed by Oswald, noting only that the killer’s hair in the back of his head “sort of went square instead of tapering off,” as Oswald’s clearly did.
Someone who looked a lot like Oswald killed Tippit? Who could that be?
...as Oswald’s clearly DIDN’T Jim... Benavides did not identify Oswald... and in fact the hair description
that it was squared off and not tapered....
is what may have gotten his brother killed... mistaken identity..
look here, the hair tapers off.. is not cleanly cut not squared off...
I haven’t seen the back of Vaganov’s head
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6 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:
E.R. Beck would sign the release forms of the Three Tramps, John Elrod and Daniel Wayne Douglas in what I view as the purge of the Dallas City jail that took place at 9:00 AM on the 26th of November
Tramps on the arrest reports were Gedney, Abrahms and Doyle...
And it was CHAMBERS who initially filled out these Arrest Reports... 'cept he don't remember it that way
Daniel Wayne Douglas - wasn't he the man, top row 2nd from left?
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13 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:
I'd bet DJ himself. Very interesting.
Yes, I did... thx... Since I'm visually oriented for the best retention of memory... I write these things out which in turn solidifies it in my memory...
DJ
FWIW
As I did for the Bethesda players and their connections
At the top here is the JCS (which I should now add ACIS)
I tried to follow the players along Military Lines... Army, Navy, AF, Marines (still part of the AF?) and then within Bethesda who was above who....
The 6:45 arrival time from HUMES... and the 7:17 empty casket entrance with Sibert/O'Neill Greer and Kellerman... just screams at me...
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Mr. Payette...
So many like yourself come here to test the waters of their insanity.
It has become painfully obvious that you argue for the pure joy of it... like so many self-delusional wanna-be "great" legal minds.
Show off that Big Brain of yours...If you actually had a legal mind you would make convincing arguments in support of your positions instead of waxing philosophical over terms you invent.
1 hour ago, Lance Payette said:My contributions here stand or fall on their own merits, for anyone to judge as they see fit.
Ok, let's take a look at this "contribution"...
A total of 4 threads started by Mr. Payette Since 2015... the last one in Dec '17... the first 2 in 2015 got a total of 2 replies (both of them yours)
this first one sure seems to suggest you think Oswald was involved in a ConspiracyYour wrote this - Posted September 23, 2015
"Even if there had been no JFK assassination, the entire no-problem defection, marriage to the mysterious Marina ("This was no ordinary Russian girl," as my wife says), and no-problem return to the U.S. was so bizarre and near-inexplicable that it would be enough in itself to tell us LHO was involved in something much larger than himself"You also mention your wife worked at the same factory in Minsk... followed by the post clarifying - "2 years after he left"... real helpful Lance!
On March 8, 2016 you start a thread and in 3 pages of replies, you are involved in only 1 of them...
Since your initial view, you seem to have had a change of heart in 6 monthsI’ve been struck by what a high percentage of those in the JFK assassination research community who accept the assassination as an elaborate conspiracy also seem to have left or far-left political leanings.
Some of the best minds in JFK research addressed your comment yet you go running off, tail between your legs... Well done.
And Finally, to prove my point about this being purely a poor excuse for a way to pass your time, you start your last thread with:
I feel sure this has been discussed to death here, but for my own amusement I decided to take a look at yet another Harvey & Lee claim, to wit (from the H&L website):
You then go on to show off how your big brain hasn't the first clue on how to approach the subject matter, or the people working with it... It is interesting that you choose one of the few conclusions within H&L that I do not support. The real fact the records were heavily altered does not change the reality of who went where, when.
Is it normal for lawyers of your caliber to offer conclusions without doing any of the work involved... or is that just you?
And then, since you haven't the ability to sway any of the jury here judging your offerings, it must be a cognitive problem related to how people understand conspiracies.
What a joke. Looking thru these threads - you simply don't have the stick-too-it-ness to remain in a debate once you see you can't win the day or sway anyone's thoughts... but then again, you're only here for your OWN AMUSEMENT...And the best for last... just a few hours ago:
As someone who practiced law for more than 35 years, 95% civil but about 5% criminal (prosecution), I really don't believe it is helpful to attempt to introduce evidentiary rules or burdens of proof into an Internet discussion. Reasonable inferences from the evidence are always permitted.
Now, why in the world would things like EVIDENTIARY RULES, or BURDENS OF PROOF be worth a bucket of warm spit here on the ole Ed Forum?
Oh, right, cause Oswald never stood trial and the evidence we discuss needs some basis for acceptance as REAL and AUTHENTICATED evidence....
Whereas your level of acceptance is "Reasonable inference" ...
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So here are 2 reasonable inferences from the evidence I'd like you to address with that Big Brain...
Oswald was being watched by FBI, US Postal Service, CIA and who knows who else... A report on Oswald was filed on April 21 in fact... that he sent a letter and gotten letters from NY's FPCC.
Reasonable inference - if Oswald was to receive a rifle and pistol in the mail at his PO Box, the US Postal Service and/or the FBI would be aware of said purchase and note it accordingly as they did with all the other Oswald reporting that was done in 1963
Why is there not a single report - or even cursory mention - of Oswald picking up a 5' carton with a rifle in it (or going to REA for the pistol), bringing it home (somehow), cleaning and practicing with it.... between receipt of said rifle on March 27, 1963 and the discover over November 22/23, 1963 that their man Oswald had indeed purchased this rifle in the name of A Hidell at Oswald's PO Box?
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The other concerns the Summary Reports from MX City CIA station related to LIENVOY phone conversations with the Soviet compound in MX, of interest.
Reasonable inference - if Oswald was in Mexico City making phone calls to the Soviets on Sept 27th and 28th, the monthly summary report for Sept would discuss the implications of such a visit...
Why is there no mention at all of an American on the phone to the Soviet Military Attache AND the Embassy... in the summary report from Oct 8th, the day David Atlee Phillips begins his new position as Chief of the Cuban Desk in MX City.... Yet there is plenty of evidence of calls and travel etc... after the fact
So you see Lance, "Reasonable Inference" and the JFK assassination are oxymoronic... the evidence was produced AFTER NOV 22 in such a way as to establish Oswald's guilt, yet it remained impossible to retrofit contemporaneous reporting to match manufactured conclusion...
Have fun...
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“Much of someone's real character lies in what they don't say about themselves.”
“Self-praise is the first sign of insecurity.”
"A fool flatters himself, a wise man flatters the fool."
7 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:Yet the reality is that I am highly intelligent, highly educated, highly analytical, psychologically sound according to all the tests, and well-acquainted with the evidence
And you've done such a fine job applying these attributes too...
23 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:Certainly there are real conspiracies. Certainly some theories of all types that once seemed wacky are now accepted as true.
And therein lies the problem Lance.... but I'm sure your big brain will have no problem following...
A THEORY is either PROVEN true or not... BELIEFS are "accepted as true" despite there being no evidence to support them...
You BELIEVE that LHO killed JFK despite numerous investigations' inability to prove so... and one of them concluding the death was the result of a conspiracy... (oops)
You, "accept as true" the belief LHO is guilty despite the evidence for such conclusion being not only woefully inadequate but provably wrong.So really, all you need do in your little proof is to get Oswald to his rifle in the bag where he stowed it that morning....
.... to the window, assembled and sighted and ready to fire when all the public information puts him there....You never wonder why, if JFK is expected at the Trade Mart at 12:15, and passing by the TSBD 5-10 mins before that, our little shooter is not even up put on the 6th floor until after 12:15?
You see Lance, since you can't PROVE anything, theories like the Silly Bullet go UNPROVEN and therefore live in the world of BELIEF inside your head...
It is truly a sad state when highly intelligent people like yourself are so easily fooled by simple propaganda and sleight of hand...
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7 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:
history has proven one side right and one side wrong.
Over and over, ... and over again...
Vietnam was not escalated to prevent the spread of communism but to foster the rise of the USA & SE Asia as the center for Heroin production in the world..
40 years later we did the same exact thing with Afghanistan... and the Taliban leaders ... all to maintain control over the world drug supply...President Roosevelt (FDR) provoked the attack, knew about it in advance and covered up his failure to warn the Hawaiian commanders. FDR needed the attack to sucker Hitler to declare war, since the public and Congress were overwhelmingly against entering the war in Europe. It was his backdoor to war.
FDR blinded the commanders at Pearl Harbor and set them up by -
- denying intelligence to Hawaii (HI)
- on Nov 27, misleading the commanders into thinking negotiations with Japan were continuing to prevent them from realizing the war was on
- having false information sent to HI about the location of the Japanese carrier fleet.
And most recently, try this experiment related to motion and physics:
Take an aluminum airplane sitting on the ground, and drop a 100 story steel-framed and reinforced building on it at 500mph...
We going find a squished plane.... or will the plane be mostly intact but now on the inside of this building?
What does happen when a softer object hits a harder one?
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There were a number of authors who Dulles saw as instrumental in our understanding of our world role...
During the 50's and 60's the WORLD seemed to be running spy operations in every hot bed city...
The CIA tried and became good at killing foreign leaders and/or influencing policy...But for a few fateful months in 1963 this world wide organization of "policy makers" STOPPED what they were doing to watch an amazingly connected man shoot and kill JFK all by his little self... or that's the story we've been SOLD...
For those of the LNer ilk here... no item of evidence designed to establish Oswald's guilt has ever been offered which can authenticated as REAL EVIDENCE... the challenge remains in place to this day... LNers.. offer up AND AUTHENTICATE any item of evidence in the entire case... good luck
Real evidence may be authenticated in three ways--by identification of a unique object, by identification of an object that has been made unique, and by establishing a chain of custody. You only have to be able to use one of these ways, though it is prudent to prepare to use an alternate method in case the court is not satisfied with the one you have chosen.
- The easiest and usually the least troublesome way to authenticate real evidence is by the testimony of a witness who can identify a unique object in court. For example, the curator of a museum may be able to testify that he is familiar with, say, Picasso's "Dames de Avignon" and that what has been marked as exhibit so-and-so is in fact that unfortunate painting. It is important to remember, however, that many more mundane objects may be amenable to this kind of identification. A unique contract, or one that has been signed, may be authenticated by a person who is familiar with the document or its signatures. A ring may have an inscription by which it can be identified. Even a manufactured object, like a wallet, may be identifiable by its owner after years of use have given it a unique personality.
- The second method--identification in court of an object that has been made unique, is extremely useful since it sometimes allows a lawyer or client to avoid the pitfalls of proving a chain of custody by exercising some forethought. If a witness who can establish an object's relevance to the case marks it with his signature, initials, or another mark that will allow him to testify that he can tell it from all other objects of its kind, that witness will be allowed to identify the object in court and thus to authenticate it. Often, if a member of the lawyer's staff or another person early in the chain of custody marks the evidence, big problems can be avoided if a later link in the chain turns out to be missing.
- The third and least desirable way to authenticate real evidence is by establishing a chain of custody. Establishing a chain of custody requires that the whereabouts of the evidence at all times since the evidence was involved in the events at issue be established by competent testimony.
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Yes... the entirety of US history and politics is about SELLING THE LIE AS TRUTH TO THE BEWILDERED HERDS
All of these books/papers are available in PDF... For a true picture of the history of control exercised on the world's population by those with the means.. I can't recommend these enough.
How We Advertised America,
Propaganda,
Modern Corp (highly recommended to understand the consolidation of wealth over the last 80 years) and the paper which becomes the impetus for Military PsyOps...
Paddock's Psych and Unconventional....
FBI shows KLEINS never got C2766
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by David Josephs
One of the most misunderstood aspects of this case remains the evidence of the purchase of the rifle associated with the shooting of JFK - C2766.
By 10:41 pm 11/22/63 NY Time (9:41 in Chicago) a teletype is sent from NY to DALLAS & CHICAGO discussing the shipping information found at Crescent Firearms (Feldsott)
It spells out a June 18, 1962 order and a March 23, 1963 order which were sent to Kleins with similar rifles yet NOT showing that C2766 was part of those shipments...
The above sent following an interview with LOUIS FELDSOTT which was finally made official in June 1964.
The very next day, 11/23, SA Chapman reiterates these results yet adds that despite this conflict the Klein records showed C2766....
So as it stands on Nov 23rd, Kleins was NOT shipped C2766 in the June 18, 1963 order for which FELDSOTT provided info and docs
Yet also on Nov 23rd, this postal money order is found in at least 3 different places at 3 different times and all with the name HIDELL
It is not until the 24th do we learn that the NY office of the FBI (I believe) has done a "further review" of the Crescent records shows C2766 received from Italy and subsequently sold to Kleins... but now the shipment related to an order in January and April 1962 finally arrives in Feb 1963... 10 months later.
We learn that when the SS gets to Waldman and Kleins Saturday they are told by Waldman that he gave the ORIGINAL MICROFILM to FBI SA DOLAN…. Who in turn has it reproduced on Dec 4th (2 weeks later?) and then RETURNS A COPY TO WALDMAN… but we’ve never seen these, have we? We have virtually identical conflicting reports from the FBI as to whether DOLAN took the film or whether WALDMAN kept it…. Yet SOP dictates that once the FBI has anything original, anything needed can be created and represented as “original” when all we’re shown are the copies of copies….
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=195&tab=page is page 188 of CD7 stating that WALDMAN KEPT THE MICROFILM
The very next page has DOLAN signing the report by himself now and stating that he gave WALDMAN A RECEIPT FOR THE MICROFILM which he takes...
That we never, ever see or know of anyone who bought another 40" Fucile Corte rifle from the 100 rifle shipment to Kleins should not worry anyone...
Harry Holmes tells a story about what happens the next morning, 11/23, when he goes into work at the Dallas GPO.... and is recounted in a doc the US Postal Service prepared to illustrate their helpfulness to the FBI/SS that weekend...
Holmes claims to have found the PMO by 11/23 noon
They appear to have combined Holmes’ BS with FBI BS to create Universal BS…
If a DALLAS INSPECTOR (Holmes?) has a record of PMO 2,202,130,462… what happened to it?
The next morning, on Saturday, when I came in, the inspector who was on duty in the lobby watching the boxes told me, “You’ve got an inspector up there sitting in your office.”
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I called it in immediately to the chief on the open line to Washington and said, “I’ve got the money order number that Oswald used to buy this gun, and according to the records up there, they had shipped it to this box that he had rented at the main office in Dallas at that time
But if it could not be carried on a person, such as a pistol, like a shotgun or a rifle, then it was $1.25 or $1.37 extra. Shipping charges were also added, so I added those together, took that figure and called around to all the different stations and the main office where these crews were checking stubs.
It wasn’t ten minutes that they hollered, “Eureka!” They had the stub! -Notes from Harry Holmes 11/22 (this all occurs at the Dallas GPO prior to 1pm)
This would be a slam dunk except for a couple things…
One - There was no stub… or if there was, it was not retained or entered into evidence to PROVE there ever really was a PMO with that number… Before splitting, the PMO should have looked a little like this and a blank one would have made a great exhibit…
Two - Holmes couldn't know which BOX this PMO was sent since all they would have seen is the far right stub with the amount, the date and the #.....
"according to the records up there, they had shipped it to this box that he had rented"
Unless they kept a master record of all PMO in a master book as each PMO is written there would be no way to get the ADDRESS from the STUB..
“Eureka!” They had the stub!
To trace the HIDELL Kleins order they needed to trace a specific rifle from receipt to inventory to order to packing to shipping.... but as of Nov 23rd, there was not yet proof C2766 was sold to Kleins and if you read my RIFLE essay you know that the 10 packing slips and the rest cannot possibly be related to these non-existent 100 40" FC rifles.
The order # on the microfilm run matches a number on the HIDELL Order form - 270502. The Hidell order form connects C2766 with a VC # Scribor kept track of... which in turn refers to those 10 packing slips which came from Italy with FELDSOTT's original order in 1960. There is literally no way they would be used as packing slips for an order FROM Crescent to anyone.. additionally each of these lists the rifles as "38 - E" which was the international designation... When Crescent sells them in the US they are given the more familiar "T-38"
With the info available in Chicago from 11:30 am 11/22 until Oswald is questioned about HIDELL in the afternoon of 11/23 … there is no way they could have found the HIDELL order #270502 since they had yet to find the incoming rifle order from Crescent to Kleins with the FELDSOTT info. Even if Chicago knew the HIDELL name, they needed to first find C2766…. And since Chicago didn’t know about the “further review” from the 24th on the 22nd or 23rd…. they would have been left with the 2 reports above which spell out clearly C2766 was not found in Klein records….
Endnote:
Despite Holmes claim, it is not until 8:30 that night and even later when finally produced, that SS Asst Chief Paterni asks one of his Special Agents to get the original or a copy...
How again can the Postal Money Order be found in 2 different states at 2 different times... notice the repeated use of "paid money order" just so you know it's legit and all...