David Josephs

kinda looks like the same bulbous nose to me...

and I think you'd be surprise Bart...  Shelley knew much more than he let on...

5 minutes ago, Mathias Baumann said:

David,

that may be true for the muzzle blast but what about the sonic boom? It would've passed just a few meters over the crowd's heads. Certainly close enough to startle people.

Fair enough, yet you may wish to revisit the level of sound at street level with those motorcycles passing by....

I'm not of the conclusion that shots were fired from the TSBD....  despite what the "witnesses" say...  Dal Tex roof, 2nd or 3rd floor, courthouse, knolls...

Those most startled by a noise are the SS agents who have turned...  and Hickey as the QM finishes the turn..  the film makes it even more obvious...

I believe a shot hit the street fired around z156 - which explains the reason for the "accidental" splice

JFK was looking to his left up to the splice.... and is immediately looking to his right...  frames are missing here... (as Chris proved in Math Rules)

On 1/1/2006 at 5:11 PM, William Weston said:

Although the facts are few, the picture is clear. Shelley was a simple desk clerk and warehouse man, content to live out his working life under the roof of one company. He certainly did not fit the image of a globetrotting CIA operative, embarking on secret missions with the latest in high tech weaponry. Even if we can assume that he really had been an intelligence officer during World War Two, it does not seem possible that he could have joined the CIA afterwards. The agency did not even come into existence until two years after Shelley got his job at the Book Depository.

It would thus appear that we have an irreconcilable situation; Shelley could not have been in the CIA before his employment at the Book Depository

What Duke wrote in '06 still stands....   this post is completely off base...

His being CIA makes this photo all the more authentic...

Shelley at the TSBD on 11/22 - Shelley at the ITM leafleting in aug 1963 with Oswald and other operatives...

Mathias...

I make the sound level argument related to Williams/Norman/Jarman since they are within 15 feet of the muzzle...

Though loud, on the ground and more than 50 feet away would not nearly be as loud as the decibel range you offer...

Sound pressure degrades quickly over distance...

As for what these men say...  I'd take it with a grain of salt.... if they were that close they would have been deaf after the first shot, let alone 3 of them...  that they are not sure if the shots came from overhead... and that they could hear the bolt and shells is pure fallacy... not possible if a 130 to 150 decibel noise occurred less than 15 feet from their ears...

Thanks Steve...  great work as usual...

Any thoughts though on Tippit's friend Dispatcher Murray and who may have told him to send Tippit (and Nelson) to Oak Cliff when

no one was ordered to leave Oak Cliff, and no one was sent to the now empty areas of 78 and 87,,,                 

--- or why Nelson is at Elm/Houston at 1:19 when ordered miles away to 4340 W Davis.. in fact he could not have made the trip from there in the 5 minutes it appears for him to get there...

--- or finally that the 2 men who patrol 10th and Patton are not ordered to Dealey, are not ordered anywhere and are not heard from between 12:30 and 1:04 when they are "91. clear."

So the question is whether Tippit was going to Oak Cliff no matter what and his friend Murray was covering for him  (kinda strange for a booty call at his GF's place as all this is going on... there is a sideline story here about Tippit getting this woman pregnant in Sept '63 and the husband being sure it was not his...  wonder if this man was short, stocky with bushy hair?)

So before we get to Tippit's later movements and motivations...  we know that despite being ordered into "Oak Cliff" which as you show comprises of a number of areas

108 unknown

This is where the Gloco station on Zang's is, where Tippit appeared to be looking for someone or something to come over the viaduct..... it is also as far north in the Oak Cliff patrol area as possible.

...or someone tells Dispatcher Murray to SAY to 78 that he is to be in Oak Cliff "for any emergency"....

When Tippit and Nelson are moved from their Patrol Zones to Oak Cliff....  to cover since everyone else was reporting to Dealey Plaza or the Trade Mart

Who then was covering Patrol zones 78 and 87 which both men just left? 

and was was OAK CLIFF a more important area to patrol than any other?

If it was indeed WESTBROOK in the 2nd Police Car in the Alley, he KNEW Tippit was on his way to that exact location...
Dispatcher Murray Jackson was a friend of Tippit's... who gives his reason for the strange order as "we were draining the Oak Cliff Area of available Police Officers"

Really?  

The Oak Cliff patrolmen were SO effective they were needed at Elm/Houston?
And both Tippit's and Nelson's areas were so locked down there was no need for them there?

Does anyone know WHO LEFT OAK CLIFF which required TIPPIT and Nelson to be reassigned...  and why does NELSON disregard the order?

Without a doubt, the movements and activities on Nov 22 of the Captain of Personnel - William WESTBROOK - are strange to say the least while being extremely suspect in their indication of WESTBROOK's involvement/complicity in the day's events.

At the beginning of his testimony he seems to casually mention something about "False Reports"...  He is in the process of walking to the TSBD after hearing next to nothing about the events...
How would he know at this early time ANY reports were false unless they were so blatant as to be absurd.  A minor point but only the tip of the berg

I sat around a while really not knowing what to do because of the--almost all of the commanding officers and supervisors were out of the city hall and I finally couldn't stand it any longer, so I started to the Texas Depository Building, and believe it or not, I walked. There wasn't a car available, and so I walked from the city hall to the Depository Building, and I would stop on the way down where there would be a group of people listening to somebody's transistor radio and I would stop and catch a few false reports, you might say, at that time, until I reached the building. 

Westbrook did not write many reports about that day - and the ones he did write conflict terribly with that of a reporter, JIM EWELL, traveling with him.

According to his first statement put to paper on Dec 3..., while at the Tippit shooting location he learns of the Texas Theater convergence....  He says here that he, FBI SA Barrett and a "radio patrolman" took a squad car to the rear of the Texas Theater...  (yet another of his personnel he doesn't know)

The reports of Baggett, Hutson, Stringer and Hawkins do their best to corroborate for their boss's statements... yet their statements have Capt Talbert at the rear of the theater along with a running pickup truck... yet here too is a small clue... Stringer is a direct report to WESTBROOK...  he says in his report that WESTBROOK "returned to the alley"

From the statements of JIM EWELL, reporter for the Dallas Morning News:

And yet, I left the location at the School Book Depository and jumped into a car driven by Captain Westbrook with Sergeant Stringer. I rode in the back seat as we sped across into Oak Cliff by taking the Houston Street Viaduct right beside the Dallas News...

They were discussing it when the report came in that the person they thought might be the police officer’s assailant had gone into the Texas Theatre. Now we were on East Jefferson, so I’m thinking that we were about five blocks from that location. Immediately, Captain Westbrook and Sergeant Stringer ran back to their car, which was across the street, and I ran to jump in the backseat. By that time, they were already turning out and accelerating. When I got in the backset with the door still hanging open, I came out of the car hanging onto the door. They slowed down long enough for me to get back in, as I could have been flung out against the gravel into a curb if I hadn’t held on.
      Anyway, when we arrived at the Texas Theatre, we parked right in front and everybody jumped out and went into the lobby.

Please try to remember that WESTBROOK was Capt of PERSONNEL... as you investigate the man deeper, notice how many officers' names about which  he simply has no clue...

Mr. WESTBROOK. It could have been, sir; I don't recall, because I directed someone there to be sure and get her name for the report, but she lived directly across the street, and she told us--or was in the process of telling us how it occurred--what she had seen, when someone hollered a patrolman hollered--"It's just come over the radio that they've got a suspicious person in the Texas Theatre." 
Then, Sergeant Stringer, I, and Agent Barrett got in another squad car, and I don't know what officer was driving this one, but then when we arrived and were approaching the theatre, I directed the patrolman to turn down into the alley instead of going around to the front because I figured there would be a lot of cars at the front. There were two or three at the back. 

Mr. BALL. Did you see him taken from the theatre? 
Mr. WESTBROOK. No, sir; because I went the other way. 
Mr. BALL. You went to the back? 
Mr. WESTBROOK. Yes; he went out the front and I never saw Oswald again--- that's the last time I saw him.
----------------
EWELL:  . Oswald then took my place in the backseat of the same car that I arrived in.
---------------
Mr. BALL. Now, what did you do after that? 
Mr. WESTBROOK. I went back to the city hall and resumed my desk. 

One wonders why WESTBROOK and EWELL's account would differ so wildly on such basic items as who was in the car and where they parked...
We are to remember the story of Bernard Haire who swears up and down that Oswald was removed out the back of the theater and driven away by police along with his corroboration via
Butch Burroughs... who said he served Oswald at 1:10 and also describes the incident out the back of the theater...

the connection of these two events  1) WESTBROOK or EWELL terribly mistaken about where they got out of their car - or even if they traveled together and 2) the alley behind the theater being the stage for an event only those back there could speak to...  so who was back there?

Baggett, Hutson, Hawkins, Talbert,
and now we know WESTBROOK and STRINGER had to have been back there too....

Add in HILL and you have virtually the entire "PERSONNEL DIV" of the DPD...  Hill, btw, was transferred to WESTBROOK's Personnel Div about the same time Oswald was hired.

As the man in charge of Personnel his first duty would have been to contact Tippit's family...  we come to find he NEVER does this... they find out about J.D. on TV.

WESTBROOK, and the small handful of men helping him, made his presence known in every one of the significant locations that day...
Pretty impressive for a man with a desk job...

Butch Burroughs, who witnessed Oswald’s arrest, startled me in his interview by saying he saw a second arrest occur in the Texas Theater only “three or four minutes later.”[444] He said the Dallas Police then arrested “an Oswald lookalike.” Burroughs said the second man “looked almost like Oswald, like he was his brother or something.”[445] When I questioned the comparison by asking, “Could you see the second man as well as you could see Oswald?” he said, “Yes, I could see both of them. They looked alike.”[446] After the officers half-carried and half-dragged Oswald to the police car in front of the theater, within a space of three or four minutes, Burroughs saw the second Oswald placed under arrest and handcuffed. The Oswald look-alike, however, was taken by police not out the front but out the back of the theater.[447]

What happened next we can learn from another neglected witness, Bernard Haire.[448]

Bernard J. Haire was the owner of Bernie’s Hobby House, just two doors east of the Texas Theater. Haire went outside his store when he saw police cars congregating in front of the theater.[449] When he couldn’t see what was happening because of the crowd, he went back through his store into the alley out back. It, too, was full of police cars, but there were fewer spectators. Haire walked up the alley. When he stopped opposite the rear door of the theater, he witnessed what he would think for decades was the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald.

“Police brought a young white man out,” Haire told an interviewer. “The man was dressed in a pullover shirt and slacks. He seemed to be flushed, as if he’d been in a struggle. Police put the man in a police car and drove off.”[450]

When Haire was told in 1987 that Lee Harvey Oswald had been brought out the frontof the theater by police, he was shocked.

“I don’t know who I saw arrested,” he said in bewilderment.[451]

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/oswald-on-november-22-1963

Mathias - Not sure if you've had a chance to read this...  it examines some of the things Oswald needed to have done if he indeed planned to kill JFK that day...  let me know what you think..

DJ

"Let's assume for the sake of this discussion that Oswald was indeed at the SE 6th floor window at 12:30, and shots from there are fired by him, AND that he planned to kill JFK with the Mannlicher Carcano rifle. ....."

On 7/25/2008 at 7:27 AM, Duke Lane said:

105 – J.M. Poe and L.E. Jez

93 – H.M. Ashcraft

19 – Sgt. C.B. Owens

79 – B.N. Anglin

211 – Ray Hawkins (and) Baggett

95 – M.N. McDonald and T.R. Gregory

85 – R.W. Walker

221 – H.W. Summers

91 – W.D. Mentzel

223 – C.T. Walker

75 – E.G. Sebastian

??? – T.A. Hutson

76 – H.H. Horn

111 – J.G. Pollard

77 – W.E. Smith

22 – L.L. Hill

550 – Capt. W.R. Westbrook and Sgt. R.D. Stringer (with unknown officer)

550/2 – Sgt. G.L. Hill

15 – Capt. C.E. Talbert

29 – J.N. Williams

66 – F.S. Williams

242 – B.E. Thornhill

It's worth resurrecting this thread....  in light of John's work focusing on WESTBROOK and CROY and their strange involvement with the Tippit murder and Oswald.

It has been theorized that when Mrs. Holan sees 2 men in a 2nd police car perpendicular to Tippit's car in the alley as Tippit is being shot... that this was WESTBROOK and CROY observing the shooting of Tippit...

No other corroboration is offered for CROY being at the scene so early... BOWLEY - who tells us the time of 1:10pm when all this happens... says the police did not show up until after the ambulance left...

"When the ambulance left, I took the gun and put it inside the squad car. A man took the pistol out and said, "Let's catch him." He opened the cylinder, and I saw that no rounds in it had been fired. This man then took the pistol with him and got into a cab and drove off. The police arrived and I talked to a police sergeant at the scene"    

CROY was a DPD reservist since 1959 (the year WESTBROOK Curry, Lumpkin and Sawyer graduate from FBI school)...was not scheduled to work the 22nd and claims to have been the first policeman on the Tippit scene....

Except as he tells it - he does a terrible job of securing the crime scene for investigation...  or even let it be known he was there...

From what I have seen, not a single soul including WESTBROOK corroborates his story... so why is he making thins up?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you at the scene when Tippit was there? 
Mr. CROY. Yes. 
Mr. GRIFFIN. Unassigned? 
Mr. CROY. Yes. 
Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it you are nodding your head? 
Mr. CROY. Yes. 
Mr. GRIFFIN. What time were you at the scene where Tippit was killed 
Mr. CROY. I watched them load him in the ambulance. 

Mr. GRIFFIN. Were other officers on the scene? 
Mr. CROY. None that I saw. 
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do when you got there? 
Mr. CROY. Got me a witness. 
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who did you get a hold of? 
Mr. CROY. It was a woman standing across the street from me. I don't recall her name. She gave me her name at that time. 
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did she tell you? 
Mr. CROY. She told me that she saw Tippit get out of the car, and I don't recall, I think she said he stepped back a couple of foot and shot him and then ran. She was pretty hysterical at that particular time (Markham?). 

Mr. CROY. Yes; and no. I talked to her, and then they talked to her, and then I talked to her, and just after I located a witness, the squad did get there. 
Mr. GRIFFIN. This conversation all took place near the scene of the Tippit killing? 
Mr. CROY. Leaning up against his car. 

5 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Did Ferrie in any way "facilitate" his death to occur sooner than natural processes would have made this happen?

If so, that falls into the suicide realm.

Exactly....

the bottom line is that we truly do not know nor have anything definitive on which to hang our hats...

and most likely his death was aggravated by "outside forces"...

11 minutes ago, Fred Litwin said:

Ferrie drifted from moments of hopelessness to moments of strength.

This sounds a lot like bi-polar disorder....

The depths of those depressions is unfathomable by those who have not been exposed....   

Nothing you've offered suggests these were not suicide notes... everything you've said can be used for either side of the argument...

and therein lies the rub...

On 2/4/2008 at 8:50 AM, Steve Thomas said:

I actually ran across the book while trying to research Sylvia's sister Sarita.

Is this Sylvia or Sarita at a training camp?

On 9/15/2018 at 4:53 PM, Michael Clark said:

Incriminating letter to LHO. I am biased, and this seems absurdly fake. But I wonder if the WC or any investigative agencies gave this any credence.

 

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10017-10056.pdf

I know it's not a popular response....  yet this letter appears to have been sent to LEE... not the man Ruby killed.

That man was not in Miami...  Lee, on the other hand... was...

FWIW  -  DJ

4 hours ago, Fred Litwin said:

David Ferrie did not commit suicide. He died by natural causes. The notes that were found were NOT suicide notes.

"To leave this life is, for me, a sweet prospect. I find nothing in it that is desirable, and on the other hand everything that is loathsome"

Fred...  "TO LEAVE THIS LIFE IS, FOR ME, A SWEET PROSPECT"

Not exactly a "desire to live forever" note.... 

"Dear Al:

When you read this I will be quite dead and no answer will be possible....

.... All I got in return in the end was a kick in the teeth. Thus I die alone and unloved."

What parts of these notes leads you to believe they are NOT suicide notes... 

If a person is ill and DOESN'T take their medicine on purpose... and die...  

Suicide or not?  (and no, an autopsy would not be able to tell)

----

I believe the autopsy discussed is FERRIE's....

37 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

400 E. 10th St.… 404 E. 10th St…. 410 E. 10th St.

I believe each of the houses was a duplex....  maybe no one was living in 406 or 408 at the time?

7 hours ago, Franklin Griffin said:

What you see highlighted in yellow has to me this lady was talking about, that' exactly what I did that day.

Frank - 

What do you mean - That's exactly what I did that day?  And please, can you place yourself in this map?

Thanks

Great work... great threat

thx

Sigh...

It is not the angle of the shadow but the line running thru the shadow then thru the object back to the source of light.... On a flat surface of course.

Shadows can never converge in the opposite direction of the light source...

Bottom right of this image... The fence shadows and the boy's shadow converge TOWARDS the sun.

When learning to Draw... Shadow, light and perspective works... They do not in those BOYs by a magnitude much higher than is possible in the natural, unedited world

5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Ah yes, a Libra after my own heart.

 

Steve Thomas

 

Those with limited mental capacity are not in the habit of doing that sort of thing...  it takes spur-of-the-moment thinking to be able to argue against a position one has taken and supported... especially from someone so young....

NOT the same guy who punched his sergeant and shot himself with his pistol... 

Furthermore... once we rotate Oswald correctly... the shadows work

Finally, there seems to have been yet another version of the ghost BYP where the ghost casts a shadow on the image...  this also shows how Oswald was skewed to look as if he was falling over

And if you need anything done... let me know...  we can work it out...

Take care
DJ

25 minutes ago, B. A. Copeland said:

Wasn't there a report of an explosion or fire at a YMCA on 11/22/1963? The hell was that about (if true)??  I do remember Rob Clark dedicating a podcast to 1026 N Beckley, as he saw no real hard evidence of LHO actually living there or, at the least, the evidence is questionable. 

  (edit - sorry BA... I had never heard the explosion at the YMCA story before... any links?)

Mrs. JOHNSON. This "O. H. Lee" is in his handwriting and this other is in the housekeeper's handwriting--Mrs. Roberts. 
Mr. BALL. And these are the rates you gave him? 
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes. 
Mr. BALL. I would like this marked as an exhibit to this deposition, mark this Exhibit A. 

It sure appears the entire page is written in one hand.... yet who knows...  but there is no reason to think that Oswald wrote "O.H. Lee" on a blank page, or that Roberts wouldn't have written the entire thing...  this doesn't exactly prove HE wrote his name...  sounds like SHE did...

Mrs. ROBERTS. The day he came in and rented the room--the 14th of October.
Mr. BALL. Had you ever heard of the man before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No, and he didn't register as Oswald---he registered as O. H. Lee.
Mr. BALL. Did he sign his name?
Mrs. ROBERTS. O. H. Lee.
Mr. BALL. Did he sign his own name that way ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. O. H. Lee---that's what he was registered as.

1 hour ago, Michael Cross said:

I guess so Ray.  Nonetheless, for those thinking critically, IMO looking at that photo as comparison, you can see the convergence AND see that something is off in the BYP.

 

they converge in the wrong direction Ray...   Shadows converge towards the source of light...  the shadows in the BYP converge in the opposite direction...

not possible....  like the image on the right...  all the shadows converge towards the light... if the gray arrow was a shadow in this image, it would stick out like a sore thumb...

Michael C...  the most telling to me is this...  when we put Oswald back into the Ghost image, (in a pose not seen until 1977 - so how did they know to put Det Brown and the ghost cutout in the one pose no one sees for 14 years?)

magic...

Dyslexia is a theory used to counter the Harvey and Lee evidence....

Dyslexia cannot be the source reason for two marines with the same name being in two places at the same time...
and the DoD falling over themselves to lie about it...

It also cannot be the reason behind what John Ely found...  there were/are 2 sets of people involved with Mr. Oswald... one set is with Lee while the other with Harvey...

Here are 2 exhibits side-by-side which directly contradict each other...  and then the FBI goes and finds the wrong Felde....

El Toto and Santa Ana are 2 diff facilities...  Dyslexia cannot overcome the evidence...

5 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

Who wrote the letter? Seems to me it wasn't LHO...

What makes you say that Bob?

I'm not disagreeing at all btw...  The BLOCK letters of his name and address at the bottom was more like the writing of LEE that we knew... 
The script writing can invariably be credited to the man Ruby killed....