Dawn Meredith

John: What "happened a second time"? The asassination? I do not think we are in any disagreement here. "Courage" comes to mind certainly because after MLK was killed Bobby was surely not so naive to believe that he could live. His courage and determination to seek justice -as President- was almost baffling, given what he surely knew. And I do not for a second believe the crap in Joan Mellen's otherwise terrific bio of Jim Garrison (A Farewell To Justice) that Bobby knew all about LHO and was secretly (with JFK) trying to have Castro killed. Joan got taken on that one. The oldest CIA/ JFK lie out there. Dawn

Stephen, Rex etc: I agree with all of the above, except I do not believe JFK participated in the assassinations of the Diem brothers. Nor do I believe he encouraged such- (tho I could be wrong). Viet Nam was a huge reason for the murder, as was Cuba. And Peace. Interesting, historian Robert Dallek has as little to say in his Boston Globe statements as he has in his very long "An Unfinished Life". On the assassination issue he devotes a few lines, most of which are out and out misstatements: Referring to potential threats from the "radically left" Dallek describes Oswald as being "openly identified with Castro's Cuba". For a book that 714 pages long, you'd think that a historian might have taken a bit more time to learn more of the truth about Oswald, unless of course this historian has an agenda. (And given the libelous statements he made about Barr McClellan on the History Channel, it's clear to me that his agenda is not consistent with the facts). Dallek also incorrectly describes a bullet "in the back of the NECK". There was no such bullet. The shot- (one of them)- from behind hit JFK's BACK and did not exit. (The neck wound was described by all the doctors at Parkland hospital as a wound of entrance). Interesting that Dallek would spend so much time on salacious details of JFK's alleged sex life and alleged medical conditions and so little on his murder. Had he lived JFK's re-election would have been bigger than the landslide Nixon enjoyed in 72. No Viet Nam... "imagine"!! I think that there is no doubt that Bobby would succeeded JFK. (68- 76). I disagree that Bobby "lacked insight". I think he knew exactly who killed Jack and why. There was a rumor in his campaign headquarters that Bobby was warned to "get out of this election or MLK will be killed" . 4/4/68 ended the dream for Martin Luther King and less than two months later RFK would meet the same fate. (6/6/68). By the same forces who killed JFK. Who are in power right now, imho. Dawn

Nathaniel: When one begins to study Oswald's ties to the intellignece community- (FBI, ONI, CIA, US Customs)- "obfuscation" is an understatement. As early as 1960 there is a Hoover memo that while LHO was in Russia there was someone in the US using Oswald's id. Now what was LHO being set up for as early as 1960? I think there is ample evidence that his trip to Russia was part of the planned defectors movement and further proof of this is that his trip home was financed by the State department. Imagine a "real" defector receiving such treatment after having "denounced" the US? Is there a 201 file on LHO? Does such correspond to the FBI's file? I doubt it. A 201 file on LHO has allegedly been"discovered" but which LHO is it? LHO was also listed under so many names that acquring information from these intelligence data basis' has been mired in confusion. Re Hosty: Good question. I think Hosty- good FBI "go to" guy- did what he was told to do, without asking questions. ( eg: interview Marina Oswald and Ruth Paine on 11/1/63, tear-up Oswald's note, per order of boss J Gordon Shanklin etc. ) What ever he may have suspected is something that could undoubtably shed much light on this complex subject: WHO WAS LHO? How many were they? Beyond Armstrong's two, there were all the imposters to consider. Dawn

Jack: What is the current status of the Roscoe White story? I too classify these deaths as highly "mysterious". They were all young men. Larry Howard's wife is convinced that Larry died due to his work on this case. (Howard was also a guiding force re the Wallace story, assisting Glen Sample and Mark Collom with information in their publication The Men On The SIxth Floor.) Dawn

Boy, ain't that the truth. These guys really need to get their story straight. The JFK forum isn't about solving a murder. It's about making a political statement. Have you noticed that 99% of the mouth-breathers here are diehard leftists? Coincidence? If there's a conservative CT'er here, I've yet to bump into him or her. Trolls like Chuck are simply full of hate, and he's rationalized that hate by adopting a conspiracy theory that sees the people he hates as the sponsors of Kennedy's demise. All one has to do is ask “how could Lee Harvey Oswald have shot the President with that lousy rifle?” and the McChimpBushHitlerHalliburton crowd is hooked. Only a minuscule number of people know anything about a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, which was quite a serviceable weapon. Hatred for the US is their template. They just can't deal with the fact that a pathetic little leftist (i.e. one of their own) committed the crime of the century, so they twist the facts to achieve a certain desirable outcome. As for the innocent people trampled and defamed in the process? Well, they're just plum out of luck. BS: There was a conservative CT here for a long time. A former attorney named Tim Gratz. Tim was a Nixon man, and last I heard, still supported W. He posted on these pages daily and for several hours at a time. Had he not threatened to sue two members, including the owner and moderatior Mr Gratz would still be a conservative member here who is also a CT. I am certain that there are other conservative CTs on this forum. Conservatives CAN think you know. Not everyone of them is an Operation Mockingbird dupe. One of my oldest friends is a strong conservative and he's been a CT for 35 years. So your comments re "political statements" are nonsense. You need to get out more.

[quote name='Ashton Gray' date='Jul 30 2006, 07:31 PM' post='70792'] Things happen at specific points in time. There are relationships between events that often remain completely occluded and invisible until the correct sequences of events and their time relationships are identified. Ashton Gray And in the case of the many LHOs, multiple sightings occur on the same date: 9/25/63 LHO, in Mexico city while also in New Orleans, while also in Dallas at home of Syliva Odio ("Leon Oswald"). I've heard of bylocation, but TRIlocation? This guy (s) gets around. So a precise timeline for LHO will be replete with multiple "LHOs". I will post a timeline that hopefully others will add to. Dawn

In this internet age surely there must be some info on her. She was young, "upcoming" at CBS. This story was to be her big break. In 1974 I had an odd experience. I met an executive for CBS. Of course the conversation turned to Ms. Clark and the man was adadment that this was an accident. That CBS had turned over every rock investigating Skolnick's claims and while things looked very suspicious the view at CBS was that Skolnick was in error, Ms. Clark had not been murdered. We agreed to disagree. Dawn

Hi Richard I did not see this post til now. Did you record it? Was it truthfull re Lisa? Does it get into her "suicide"? Was it made clear that JFK and Castro were to have peaceful coexistance? thanx. Dawn

Ashton, Try reversing the names, just a thought. Or it could be a fake name, as the CIA often did that : David A. Phillips a/k/a/ "Maurice Bishop" (according to a rather hesitant Antonia Veciana, and some HSCA members); Documentation on LHO exists under both "Lee Harvey" and "Harvery Lee"; Popa Bush's buddy, running cocaine for the Contragate crowd, Felix Rodriguez went by "Max Gomez". Felon North was known as "John Cathey", and according to Terry Reed- ("Compromised")- Ollie was Reed's handler and the man who put Reed into contact with Barry Seal (Then Seal was murdered to shut him up). The document you provided re Lisa Howard tells me conclusively that the CIA was completely aware of what Lisa Howard was up to in Cuba: facilitating peace negeotiations between JFK and Castro. They were to actually meet -(JFK and Castro)- after "a brief trip to Dalas". Dawn

I cannot forget the moment when the reporter tells him on camera he has been charged with the murder of JFK. He is genuinely shocked. This is not acting. For some reason he was convinced that he was not going to be charged with this crime. Why? I'd vote for the simplest and obvious answer...he had NOT killed JFK...not shot at him. He knew there was a plot afoot, but not the one he suddenly realized he had been cast as the patsy for. He WAS genuinely shocked....and would have likely spoken the truth of what he did know - so had to be quickly eliminated.... Both John and Peter are correct. He realized that he had been double-crossed (probably by Phillips). He realized that he could not rely on his unprovable agent status to protect him. He asked for a lawyer but was denied. If he had talked to a lawyer, we wouldn't be studying this today probably. Jack I agree with John, Peter and Jack. Back in the late 70's and again in about 81, I spend many hours trying to track down the attorney LHO did ask for-John Abt (ACLU) but got nowhere. Either I was lied to or he had died. Does anyone know if Attorney JOhn Abt was spoken to by anyone in the critical community? I disagree with Jack that we would not be studying this today, in that LHO had to be elimated before he could speak to an attorney. Whoever was in control in Dallas was not about to let LHO speak with anyone, except themselves. WIth "no notes, no steno, no recording of conversation". Which I have not ever believed. Cops always take notes. That is how they make their report. Did any notes of the two days of interrogation ever surface anywhere, does anyone know? I have always believed that Tippit's job was to kill Lee and when that failed Tippit was elimated, with Ruby being the fall- back, " had to" guy. (Ruby's "feeling sory for Jackie" cover story sounded as foolishly contrived in '63 as it does today. ) Dawn

David Lifton makes an excellent case for body and casket switching in Best Evidence. If LBJ really thought there was some international (Cuba, USSR) conspiracy afoot, why the hell would he hang around there waiting all day to be sworn in? LBJ's insistance that Jackie be at his side gave them ample opportunity to make the switch as this was the ONLY time Jackie left her husband's body. Dawn

I find DeM's "suicide" on of the strangest in this case. He had already met with one researcher and was about to meet with - (HSCA investigator)- Gaeton Fonzi and just decided he could not handle Fonzi's questions and so instead blew his brains out? I don't buy it? Anone else? Dawn

[quote name='Mark Valenti' date='Jul 24 2006, 08:46 PM' post='70085'] Rex, Fantastic research on the casket and its disposition. How remarkable that Cabell was instrumental in the destruction of a key piece of evidence. Mark, Rex: Interesting indeed. I would be very interested in knowing what sort of relationship- (if any) -existed between Senator Kennedy and Earle Cabell in 1996. Interesting that JFK Jr was aslo buried at sea, under most mysterious circumstances. Dawn

[quote name='Ron Ecker' date='Jul 23 2006, 07:45 AM' post='69896'] I don't think that Gary Mack emails freeze up computers, but they have a chilling effect on some theories. I used to get emails and PM's from Gary all the time "correcting" me as well. None ever froze my computer tho. Gary if you are reading this I do have a question. I try to save all PM's and email but there was an exchange between us a couple of years ago involving the Itek corp in Cambridge MA. I no longer have this exchange, do you? If so would you email it to me. I would greatly appreciate it. Itek analyzed the Zapruder film for CBS- (among others)- for a documentary aired in 1975 by Dan- I'd Rather- not. You (Gary) mentioned other things about Itek, in our email exchange, that I found extremely interesting. If you by chance saved that email, I would greatly appreciate receiving it again. Dawn

Whether the writer is an evolutionist or not, every statement that he makes about creationism or creationist "strategy" is true. One doesn't have to be an evolutionist to see the logical fallacies in the standard creationist arguments. The intelligent design movement currently creating havoc with local school boards around the U.S. is built on one of those fallacies: life is too complex to have evolved, it had to be designed. But this forum of course is not the place to argue about evolution v. creation (that old false dichotomy). Ron: I agree that it is a false dichotomy. I believe that there is sufficient evidence to support both creationism and evolution, just not in its present form. EG: I in no way believe we "evolved" from monkeys or amoebas. The "missing links" have all been fabricated. I am of the belief that both intelligent design and evolution should be taught in schools but as a comparative religion topic, alongside the other world relegions, including athiesm. As to arguing HERE? Everyone knows my view: Let's cease all arguments and try to solve this case cooperatively. Dawn

Ron It is my understanding that there was a huge fight between JFK and LBJ over the seating arrangements in the car. With LBJ wanting Senator Ralph Yarborough in Connally's seat. JFK prevailed; and Sen. Yarbororough rode two cars behind JFK's. He would later tell the WC that he "smelled gunpowder " nearby. Gordon Arnold, a 22 year old soldier was attmpting to film the motorcade from the Grassy Knoll. A "Secret Service" agent told him to move, so he moved to a spot higher on the GK. When the motorcade arrived he heard a shot from "behind" himself. "only inches over (his) left shoulder". So he "hit the dirt". Shortly thereafter a police officer approached Arnold and Arnold recounted his story. However, according to author Anthony Summers- "Conspiracy" -no one took Artnold's name and no official body ever interviewed him". "In 1978 HSCA learned about him but failed to interview him". (p 59). Senator Yarborough would later state that he saw a person in Arnold's position throw himself on the ground. That he immediately knew it had to be a combat vet. "who knows how to act when weapons start firing". In addition to Ralph Yarborough saying he smelled gunpowder, two other witnesses in the motorcade stated the same thing: Congressman Ray Roberts and - get this: the wife Dallas Mayor Earle Cabal, brother of Dep. Dir. of CIA, Charles Cabal, fired, along with CIA director Allen Dulles, by JFK. I daresay Mr. and Mrs. Cabal must have had some very interesting pillow talk after 11/22/63. Dawn

Ashton: Very impressive time line!!!! And I think you already know a whole lot about Ruth and Michael Paine Dawn

It could have been Connally's understanding that the shooting would take place at the Trade Mart. Hence his expression of surprise and uncertainty of group survival when the shooting started in Dealey Plaza. Very interesting you should mention that. I have repeatedly heard murmurs of 'a back-up plan' to kill JFK at teh Trad Mart, had the Plaza not worked out....but with little real information about this. If as you speculate, Connally was told that was the place, perhaps there wasn't such a plan, only the rumour of the plan to set up some of the cast and characters in the Drama to unfold - and divert attention from the real shooting gallery. Does anyone have anything more specific on any of this? If true, Connally must have really felt done-dirt by whoever told him things would be otherwise - if that was the scenario. Would fit in with many things....I believe almost all the bit players were mis-directed as to what exactly was about to go on. Many of those who felt they were 'in the fold' found later they were expendable and to be hung out to die or dry...Tippit, Oswald, - later DeMorhrenshildt, Ruby perhaps, Shaw, Ferrie...a very much longer list. Good tradecraft. Ugly coup d'etat. Peter, Ron, Ashton (etc) There was also a back up plan for Austin, my wonderful home for now 16 years! An aside here, I began uncovering extreme corruption in the legal system here in Austin. Between 1992 and cumminating in 1995, I had uncovered enough to write 10 books on one law firm who shall remain- (for now)-unnamed. At the time I was speaking daily with pal Richard Bartholomew who was dying to tell me just HOW corrupt Austin is, essentially all of his and J Harrison's "secrets" re the finger print, Barr looking for a publisher, the trial of Malcolm Wallace here in Austin, where he was convicted of murdering John Kinsner but received a SUSPENDED sentence. (no jail time). Of course I would later meet J on 11/21/97 and learn all these secrets. And far much more. (J kept files on everyone, including me I later learned after he died). They call it "buba justice" here in Tx. And if you have the "right" attorney you can literally get away with cold blooded murder. Wallace would go on to kill many more at LBJ's behest (allegedly) . Did he fire at JFK? I believe he did. But he was far from alone. Those unfamiliar with Malcolm Wallace can just google The Estes documents or the name Mac Wallace or Glen Sample's website via google Men on the Sixth Floor. Of course I highly recomment reading Glenn's book of the same name and Barr's book. (Blood Money and Power: How LBJ Killed JFK). To me it is not an either/ or: LBJ could well have had JFK assassinated, with the CIA running the entire show. The Estes Documents are letters between Atty Doug Caddy and AG Trott on behalf of Billie sol Estes, in 1984. VERY interesting letters. Must reads, imho. Dawn

[quote name='Ron Ecker' date='Jul 25 2006, 09:08 PM' post='70263'] I would like to see Evica's sources on this, as I have to question the November 21 date being set by the Houston committee. According to Cliff Carter and Connally, the first date considered at the June meeting with JFK was August 27, LBJ's birthday. August 27 was rejected according to Carter because it was too close to Labor Day, and according to Connally because August is the worst month of the year in Texas. Carter said that the next date that JFK's schedule would allow was November 21, which was the date finally chosen. The White House announced that date on September 26. If Carter is to be believed, this was based on JFK's schedule, and not on a date set by a Houston committee in April. Ron: The event was 11/18-22/93 In Dallas at the Dallas Hyatt. I am able to get a copy of the transcript that I can perhaps try to scan, or if you perfer, send me a PM with a mailing address or fax number and I can get for you. Likely tho not til after vacation 8/5-13. I have more than enough work between now and then to work 18 hour days. (Which I am doing). Dawn

[quote name='Mark Valenti' date='Jul 25 2006, 11:09 PM' post='70284'] According to JFK White House aide, Jerry Bruno, one of those responsible for planning the Texas trip: Initially there were two locations under consideration for JFK's speech in Dallas - the Trade Mart and the Women's Building, described as a "sprawling auditorium which could seat 4000 people." The Trade Mart was a potential security risk due to the high ceiling and numerous catwalks. If JFK had been scheduled to speak at the Women's Building, his motorcade would have traveled two blocks farther away from the TSBD and at a much higher rate of speed. The Johnson/Connally team wanted to use the Trade Mart because parts of it could be closed off and the "fat cats" of the area could attend a more exclusive gathering. As we know, Connally insisted on the Trade Mart site. Bruno reported it seemed that the Johnson/Connally team deliberately held back on selling tickets to the Austin fundraiser in order to get their way on the Trade Mart location. Eventually they prevailed. The motorcade route was set. Still, Bruno contined to be concerned. On Nov. 22, he tried to reach Jack Puterbaugh, the Dallas advance man who helped to set up the motorcade route and the luncheon site. Before Bruno could reach Puterbaugh, JFK was shot in Dealey Plaza. Mark: My friend J Harrison, just prior to his death (5/25/05) told me something re Puterbaugh. Just called out of the blue and said "post this" (J NEVER went on forums) , so he dictated and I typed. No clue as to when, but obviously prior to last May 25. All I remember was it seemed positive, but also vague. I believe tho that he said Pererbaugh did set up the route; but it also could have been he was to do so...which is more in keeping with what Bruno has said. It does keep coming back to LBJ and Connally and higher ups who controlled Dallas. A view that LBJ was involved, but "under" CIA (Mil Intel) fits with my research. Always has. They did it in Dallas because they could. Ron: Re Evica's research: I have posted as much I know, just from notes. I did not attend the ASK conference, so obtained the information second hand by someone who was in attendance. Dawn

Thinkers? Where?? BS you should be congratulated. It is rare for a person to recognize their own weaknesses especially when it comes to a lack of intelligence. It is even rarer for them admit to such defects publicly. Congratulations once again, you are to be commended for your self recognition and honesty! For the first time, Colby makes an accurate posting! Way to go, Colby! Jack I totally agree. Colby yours is the post of the day! Jack, I never believed in the moon landing from day one. ("Back in the summer of '69..." Guess I will just have to visit that LBJ space center for "proof" Dawn

I think Larry Hancock could tell us about this issue. He has done a lot of research into the activities of LBJ before and after the assassination. I don't know if Larry was on this scene when an Austin group called ASK- (loosely affiliated with the famous South by Southwest music conference held annually in March, here in Austin)- began doing conferences. Well known researcher Geroge Michael Evica spoke at one of these events and addressed this issue: Evica's research traced the trip planning back to April 1963. A November 21 date was set for Houston by a committee of the Knights of San Jacinto, an elite subgroup of the Sons of the Republic of Texas that included JACK VALENTI!!! This group of Connally cronies proposed the Al Thomas dinner, an event which JFK would not miss , Congressman Thomas being a pal of JFK's. The cover story for the dinner was to honor Thomas' role in establishing the NASA facility in TX. (later named, of course, the Johnson Space Center). The November date for the TX. trip was later expanded to include San Antonio, Fort Worth, - (very near Dallas), and Austin, but the basic date never changed after April 12, 1963. (San Jacinto Day). After the event was set, John Connally was considered to be the force behind getting JFK under the snipers' guns. And the rest is...terrible history. Dawn Ashton: Re the Paines. Will get back to you on that. It's a very "big" question that I do not have time for today, but will get back to you when time permits. (And someone else is more than welcome to chime in here re LHO and the Paines. )

Thanks very much, John. Sorry to be so slow to respond. I've been scanting the Watergate forum in recent days, sidetracked over into the Kennedy assassination by Dandy Dawn Meredith (the little conniver ) while awaiting some information I needed to wrap up the CIA Bait-and-Switch series. Thankfullly, it's here. So there are my lame excuses for all my neglect of everybody, but I'll get over there and take a look without fail. Ashton Mr Gray: I will have you know that I have not ever watched a football game. (I am serious.) Dawn