Robert Howard

I must say that Aaron Macgruder is a fascinating person, the comment he made about 'I dont want you guy's...) reminds me of what the mayor of New Orleans Ray Nagin quipped during Katrina. Something like 'if anything happens to me you'll know the CIA did it."

Miguel Casas Saez - Cuban in Dallas - Of Possible interest 'GPFLOOR'(which is a CIA acronym for documents pertaining to the Kennedy assassination) WAVE-93 A G-2, and D.T.I.Agent (DGI error?) allegedly in Dallas on 11/22/63, it is difficult to ascertain how 'all of this fits in the big picture.' It is said he was trained in the Russian language, left Cuba on Sept 26th came to US (allegedly on a mission of 'infiltration to sabotage and report on your plans there') illegally under the fictictous name of 'Angel' Dominguez Hernandez. Was sighted in Miami attempting to obtain a boat and then it is difficult to tell what happened. An intel source states he was back in Cuba on Nov. 18, he was also allegedly in New York and seen again in Miami on October 31; Saez's aunt however says that 'Miguelito' was in Dallas when Kennedy was assassinated. He is ostensibly one of Raul Castro's men 'and is very brave, very brave.' He is said to have left Dallas with two other men, and came back with a lot of money. Other names mentioned are Wilfredo Ruissch and Jose Blancos Matias Hernandez The document is new to me, but I am sure someone on the Forum is familiar with Saez, anybody? Documents cite some AMOT Report's; CC-409 Nov. 5, 1963 CC-412 Nov 15, 1963 EE--774 Nov 29, 1963 See http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=255661

Ron, I think you hit the nail on the head, the comparison to the media dynamic that is in play regarding Pres. Bush, and similarities to the Nixon Era post June 72, is beyond reproach, I believe. Ironically if you read the stroy that is on the Internet today about the 'White Houses List of Accomplishments' for the year 2005, is so 'doublespeak and Orwellian in its overtones that the same mentality that brought down the Nixon White House, is what I would say 'front and center' this Christmas 2005. I would also sadly note, that if the same shennanigans that have taken place since Inauguration Day in America were taking place in 1973, the President would have left office long ago. That in itself is a fact that should make everyone aware of just how far the dynamics of Operation Mockingbird and the American peoples apathy have taken us.

Welcome to the Forum.

I really have no idea, but I would peruse the LBJ section at [maryferrell.org] as well as searching under radio, frequencies etc, to find out. the NARA Archives would probably be worth a try also.

It also seemed that something always went wrong during these sabotage operations. Was there something in our methodology, we wondered, that was tipping our hand to the enemy? Or, despite the high standards of security at our paramilitary training sites and launch facilities, was our mechanism penetrated somewhere along the line? Dave and I decided one Saturday afternoon we wanted to create a new, compartmented operational cell that would be kept totally apart from everything else we were doing in the paramilitary field. We felt that with new training facilities, new safe houses, new personnel, and new trainers, we would be in a better position to discover whether something was wrong with our previous methods. I just wanted to respond to this excerpt from John's post from Shackley's book. Is it an item of agreement in general that the JM/WAVE station was penetrated by the DGI and/or pro-Castro Cuban's? If so, is there a angle to the possibility that the CIA 'knew' it was penetrated and 'incorporated' that fact into the assassination of JFK, in the sense that it would make the 'Castro and Oswald did it' scenario so vigorously promoted by the DRE seem 'very likely?' My position is that the Castro did it theory is implausible if not an outright joke, by virtue of the fact that 'if it were true, the CIA would undoubtedly have put it out in concrete, concise factual terms from the beginning; the fact that in 43 years this theory has never been proven gives the lie, compounded by the fact that the more one looks at the CIA/Oswald/Mexico City conundrum, I think it is patently obvious that certain transcripts were 'created after the fact' by Ann Goodpasture, and David Phillips as well as the fact that after Silvia Duran was tortured by the D.F.S. the Agency still had to delete her references to the Oswald she encountered having 'blond hair,' a fact that has never been resolved in any sense of the word.

I have Gerald Patrick Hemming on tape to the tune of boxes and boxes of tapes from our conversations. Yes, he cited Helms as behind the assassination - on tape with me in Fayetteville, North Carolina. He also cited Lawrence Howard as being in Dealey Plaza, and as a crackerjack shooter and sniper, although more recently he has denied that. This is a individual who has contradicted himself, as many authors and historians have noted. Note that I do not call him a witness. Ms Mellen, It's an honor to have you here. I asked Gerry about this also and he became quite rattled and even talked of lawsuits. I suspected -(and hoped)- that anything he told you would be on tape. Some of us wonder why you included anything Hemming told you in AF2J? Dawn Gerry, for all your apparent anger towards the US Government for their B.S., (and I would be the last one to disagree with you) some of us out in the same 'real world' you live in, would wonder why you don't tell all, it wouldn't even have to be on the Forum, there is the print media, and certainly no shortage of 'inquirin minds". Whats up with that? P.S. I may not be a member of 'Fearless Leader's 2% of black voters trust me camp', but Feedel Castro has never been a big fav of mine either.

George Lincoln Rockwell's name and address are in LHO's address book. Rockwell was also an associate of Banister's and Walker's. Walker's chief aide, Robert Surrey, later became Rockwell's printer and head of the Dallas branch of the American Nazi Party. David, thanks for the input G.L. Rockwell sure seems to fit the category of those who walk 'between the raindrops' doesent he, I was looking at your posts and think you certainly have made your share of contributions to same; In that same spirit I felt that this document deserves attention as well. From that always interesting 'Russ Holmes Work File' http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...593&relPageId=1 By the way, it would really be good if Gerry Hemming could talk about Mr. Augustinovich, and the FBI's S.A. Robert J. Dwyer memo's circa 1962-63 he wrote about anti-Castro goings on in the Miami area, those Dwyer memos seem to have wound up at the Dept. of Justice because 'Dame Edna' Hoover didn't want anyone to know about them.

This message has been posted before. Like last time I asked questions that were not answered. Maybe I will have better luck this time. (1) Does Florence Pritchett’s son object to his mother being named as the long-time mistress of JFK or by the suggestion that she might have been one of Kilgallen’s sources? (2) In your book you do not mention that Pritchett was JFK’s mistress. Is that because you did not know or was it a case of you protecting her privacy? (3) You do not mention that Pritchett was married to Earl E. T. Smith, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to Cuba (1957-59). Did you know that at the time you wrote the book? Is it not possible that Pritchett passed on information to Kilgallen as a result of her relationship with her husband and JFK? (4) In your book you make a lot of Kilgallen’s relationship with the man you call the "Out-of-Towner". In fact, you imply that he was in some way involved in her death. Is it correct that the man’s name is really Ron Pataky? (5) Did you find any evidence that Ron Pataky was working for the CIA? (6) Do you believe that Ron Pataky murdered Dorothy Kilgallen? I would be willing to make a stab in the dark, could it have been the evening that the Warren Commission came a calling?

I wanted to explore a few areas, that ostensibly provide new avenues of research within the context of "what we know now, that we didn't know then." First of the bat is a name that is familiar to some - Warren Caster; He was the District Mgr. for Southwestern Publishing Co in the Texas School Book Depository, he also garnered attention by virtue of the fact that 'he brought a Mauser rifle (30.06) into the Depository (along with a Reminigton single shot rifle) two day's before the assassination, and there is more! At the time of the assassination he was eating lunch at North Texas State University, which oddly enough was also where the universities "Young Peoples Republican Club" had planned to join alongside Edwin Walker in a protest during President Kennedy's (now infamous) motorcade. The protest was called off after the Dallas Police learned of said plan, ostensibly Walker departed on Nov. 21, and neither he nor his 'group' as the Warren Commission referred to it materialized. It would be 'interesting to ascertain' whether there was any possible connection between this 'group' and the individuals who were arrested at Dallas Market Hall (William Lee Cummings, Gene Guinn, and the Joiner family) across from the Trade Mart, where Kennedy would have spoken that day, or even others. Is it true that 'bullets' were found on these individuals? There are a plethora of other interesting characters, that may need to be looked at in light of what we now know. But I felt this would be a good beginning; Incidentally, Gene Guinn was 'rumored' to have done printing for George Lincoln Rockwell, a well known 'Nazi lover,' whose name glances the pages of Joan Mellen's infamous AFTJ as 'someone' who was associating with Thomas Beckham. But I guess since her book has been 'discredited' that is irrelevant.

Deliver Us From Ignorance What America needs is an antidote for brainwashing A massive dome of delusion has been constructed over heads! Now we are slaves to the media, slaves to the government's "truth" The monkey on our backs has a sack over our heads We are totally blinded and conditioned to accept the government's version of "truth" It is no longer our government, but a government run by the rich and powerful Our military nothing more than a tool for global corporations A weapon to keep the world "safe" for their material greed Americans are decent, hard-working and law-abiding people They have been goaded into hate and anger and misguided by gigantic lies The government and media cultivate a lynch-mob mentality to foster war Then pass off this frenzy as American support for its unlawful actions War to protect the material interests of the rich and powerful When demand for government accountability dies out we are at the mercy of tyrants True Americans who abide wholeheartedly by the Constitution will demand truth Phony "patriotic" Americans will blindly accept the government's lies Jumping on a bandwagon of national arrogance Leaving all of us vulnerable to the abuses of power And the destruction of our Constitution! God Bless America, she really needs your blessing badly! "The rest is up to You"

Yikes, this one's a bit looney. Don't you guys have any murders to investigate? Your Talk Radio must be awfully tame by U.S. standards. Everyone has heard the adage 'A picture is worth a thousand words' yet music also has the capability to touch 'hearts and minds' as well. I wanted to post these lyrics from a Stevie Wonder song from the Nixon Era to ask 'does this ring a bell in 2005?' "You Haven't Done Nothing" We are amazed but not amused By all the things you say that you'll do Though much concerned but not involved With decisions that are made by you But we are sick and tired of hearing your song Telling how you are gonna change right from wrong 'Cause if you really want to hear our views "You haven't done nothing"! It's not too cool to be ridiculed But you brought this upon yourself The world is tired of pacifiers We want the truth and nothing else And we are sick and tired of hearing your song Telling how you are gonna change right from wrong 'Cause if you really want to hear our views "You haven't done nothing"! We would not care to wake up to the nightmare That's becoming real life But when mislead who knows a person's mind Can turn as cold as ice un hum Why do you keep on making us hear your song Telling us how you are changing right from wrong 'Cause if you really want to hear our views "You haven't done nothing"! Yeah Doo doo wop Doo doo wop - oh Doo doo wop - co co co Doo doo wop - sing it baby Doo doo wop - bum bum bum Doo doo wop - um Sing it loud for your people say Doo doo wop - um um um Doo doo wop - stand up be counted, say Doo doo wop...... "President Bush is to conservatives what the FOX Network is to news"

Yes, Pat and then he had the audacity to 'blame the leakers;' as if revealing (what according to the media said initially was 'the leaking' of an 'illegal act' (didn't Woodward and Bernstein get a Pulitzer Prize for doing something in that vein when another Prez was in office?) was some type of moral transgression. If it was truly illegal why haven't charges been filed as in an 'article of impeachment.' Could it be that the Democratic Party is so tuned in to the reality that in the Wonderland of FOX News and MSNBC etc.., legality vs illegality are 'irrelevant' when faced with a population so out of touch with reality that 50 plus % of the American people believed that Iraq was 'connected' to 9-11? Ostensibly they failed to notice that not a single hijacker was from that country? It is an inversion of the Groucho Marx quote "Who are you going to believe me, or your own eyes?" All I can say is that I have a strong instinct that there is a lot that is taking place behind the scenes (Example a 'closed-door session of Congress' two or three weeks ago,) that prevents one from getting the 'big picture' of what is happening. I realize that to say that is 'classic conspiratorial rhetoric' but if we can discover over 40 years after the fact that there was going to be 'an invasion of Cuba on Dec 1, 1963,' I suppose to say that is not as illogical as one might think.

Here's what the New York Times thinks of it: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/18/opinion/18sun1.html?hp It strikes me as an oddly defiant editorial (with no mention, incidentally, of how the Times sat on this story for so long). I wonder if it was actually written in Langley. Perhaps the CIA resents the attention and privilege given to the NSA, hence the bitter tone of the editorial. In any case, most Americans don't read Times editorials. Only one big terrorist attack away from martial law (and they've been assured by Cheney that another terrorist attack a la 9/11 is not a matter of if but when), the American sheeple, I believe, are now sufficiently conditioned to live willingly under fascism. Such an American state is manifestly in development. What is ridiculous about this whole thing (the Patriot Act, domestic spying, torture, the "war on terror" in general) is that it's a case of the fox guarding the henhouse. It would be funny if it weren't so tragic and horrific in terms of lives lost or ruined. I would like to post an email that was sent to Senator John Cornyn today by me with regards to his comments that implied that the 'uproar over the NSA revelations was to sell a book.' "I would first like to state that I voted for you the last time your name was on the ballot, here in Texas, my contacting you today is in reference to the grave 'status-quo' when it comes to the modus operandi of the Bush administration, in its manner of constantly "invoking 9-11, and the particular irksome habit the administration utilizes regarding the use of 'fear as a political weapon,' when it comes to the issue of 'terrorism.' I am not a liberal, I am a conservative, however the increasingly shrill tone coming from the Republican dominated Congress was only exacerbated by your comments regarding 'NSA wiretap revelations being revealed for the purpose of selling a book.' I would submit to you Senator, that your comments were very disappointing in the sense, that the crux of the debate is not 'the timing of when this information came out' but the actual information ITSELF. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am not aware the N.S.A is a 'left-wing organization.' The very fact that this act was 'illegal' according to our current laws combined with the fact that there were some members of the NSA who refused to carry out the directives, concerning the wiretaps 'IS THE STORY!' It is very difficult for me not to believe your comments served 'no other purpose' than to exacerbate an already fatigued dynamic that exists between the left and the right in this country, if that was not your intention, I apologize. The American people are not idiots Senator, it does not matter how many times 'the President, VP-Cheney, or 'Condi' tell us that 'nothing was done that was wrong'. Intent is not the issue, at least for me, in the sense that I will give our Chief-Executive the 'benefit of the doubt' that he was trying to protect Americans, but at the same time I see very distressing elements in this that are very evocative of the FBI's COINTELPRO program which contributed to the scandalous environment which Washington D.C. was percieved as being during the Nixon Administration Era. In closing, I would suggest to you and your 'party' that you remind yourselves that 'according to the Constitution of these United States' elected officials are the 'servant's of the people' not their masters. There is, whether you happen to agree with the premise or not, a large amount of Americans who see in the policies of the Bush Administration and the Republican Party in this country an almost 'contempt' for American's who fall under the category of being the have-nots, (some would say the marginalized) and those who are not as enthusiastic for the continual assault on our civil liberties regarding the 'Patriot-Act.' For the record, I share the perception many, many American's have that in these very, very difficult day's our country faces, the status quo in Washington D.C. is a domestic policy that is an embarrassment to this country's status in regards to how the rest of the world see's us, at best and displays the potentiality of turning towards some kind of 'Orwellian nightmare' at worst. I will continue to work peacefully, and with malice towards none, for the common good of this country, but I will do so without any ties whatsoever to the Republican Party until it shows the inclination to abandon 'business as usual' as its guiding vision in the third millennium. Regards Robert Howard"

Bill, Thank You for posting this, it is, besides one of the most eloquent statements to 'what ostensibly motivates us', (or at least should be) very timely; in light of the fact that her online database may be the most significant plus to emerge in JFK research in the last decade. I am sure I will have my critics in saying so, but if every 'JFK researcher' was a registered member of maryferrell.org and 'we' operated more as an integrated unit, in the endeavor, the 'mystery surrounding the assassination' will soon no longer be a mystery.

I add my assent to the expressed opinions, the Death Penalty is not only not a deterrent, which is what its proponents used to cite in defending it, but in the 21st century the idea of 'an eye for an eye, is a little obsolescent, to say the least. What is so frustrating is the fact that in my view Eldridge Cleavers infamous comment about 'violence is as American as Apple Pie,' could arguably be said to be true. America has increasingly become more violent throughout the years, having said that the fact that Williams was ostensibly a co-founder of the Crips, wasn't exactly a good thing for him, it is just an observation, but if the Crip's connection hadn't been an issue, perhaps things would have been different. I also feel that his victims are the most deserving of sympathy, but I do not believe that feeling frustrated about the death penalty issue and feeling sadness over the people's lives that Williams took are mutually exclusive concepts.

For the record, I would like to state that I do not subscribe to the 'Castro/Cuba did it theories' for God's sakes that is the ultimate dead horse, but it sure could have been a angle manipulated by 'rogue elements' to cover their butt, regarding dastardly deeds in Dealey. Especially in light of that 'relationship' between CIA and the Warren Commision, or lack thereof, when it came to procuring info.

Interesting comment on Edward Maurelius. Have you got the spelling right? There was a Donald Charles Marelius (1914-2002). He was a senior CIA officer in El Salvador (1947-1949), Colombia (1949-1952), Chile (1952-1958) and Brazil (1958-1963). He then held a senior position at Langley until he retired in 1973. I am in contact with his grandson who interviewed him before he died and is currently working on a book on him. http://www.namebase.org/xmar/Donald-Charles-Marelius.html I was relying on the document below for Maurelius, which indeed does identify him as 'Edward' but the namebase.org listing you have makes me think that it was actually 'Donald Charles' This is confusing, but my guess is that the 'subject' (who may be named Weatherby) got the name wrong, but that is just speculation. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...69&relPageId=10 FYI, the link I provided is an interview with someone (is anonymous during interview, although at one point I believe he is 'accidentally referred to as Weatherby,') who was the Case Officer for AMLASH during late summer 1962, his mentioning that 'AMLASH' wanted assurances from RFK that he 'supported' the ostensible assassination of Castro via AMLASH seems very suspicious, equally suspicious to me 'is the whole scenario with AMLASH on November 22, according to the case officer he indicated in his testimony that the idea of AMLASH committing the 'assassination of Fidel' was really not too believable, (ostensibly according to said Case Officer, Cubela didn't even like to use the word, there is also a reference to periods of time when AMLASH/Cubela's wherabouts were unknown, although he was (according to the subject the No. 4 man in Cuba, (only behind Fidel, Raul and Che) his disillusionment with Fidel 'selling out to the Soviets' (my characterization, not a quote) seems on the surface to have been something that was at least a thought in the mind of DGI, but that is sheer speculation on my part, Sen Hart interviewed 'Weatherby' on that very subject. See http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...c.do?docId=1370 Interesting, to say the least.

Tim, I believe you make some very valid points, what would you say if I told you that during the critical day's after Nov. 22 when ostensibly LBJ and Hoover were trying to 'nail down' just what did happen in Dealey Plaza, that Richard Helms intentionally neglected to tell Johnson about the AMLASH project specifically that Cubela and Castro's so-called assassination were on the table. One can infer two different things that Helms was trying to obstruct justice and more importantly he 'could be said' to be preventing knowledge of 'what really happened' from being ascertained conclusively with regards to the Chief Executive. The reason I ask is that I am not familiar with every de-classified document that is out there, but there are Church Committee Document's that are very salient to the topic you are mentioning. See Church Committee Misc Documents (157-10014-10138 warning it is more than just a few pages, but is 'required reading') Task Force W seemed to be a pretty hot little item in the fall of 1962, William Harvey, Desmond Fitzgerald and Edward Maurelius, the latter 'died' during the time of the Church Committee Hearings, and from what I gather the Church Committee Hearings seem to go to the 'heart of the matter' and are very overlooked by a lot of JFK researchers, which is really unfortunate.

Out of all the varied views expressed above, my vote for most insightful analysis goes to Howell Raines, I believe that in the future political commentary by those 'across the divide' (Ex. Dee Dee Myers above) will come under increasingly more stringent analysis by the reader as to 'objectivity' in light of the current political maelstorm in America. (I am not being critical of Myer's comments at all, they are in my opinion insightful, I am just giving an example). Perhaps the only observation that I can make that would be noteworthy, is that as an American, having lived in the US for 47 years, it is my perception that the 'average American' is 'beyond fed up' with the shrill tone of what is considered (or passed off as) political discourse. But getting back to the point, my prediction is that American's have become so cynical and distrustful regarding politics in general, that success or failure in Iraq (and if he can finish his term w/o a 'major terrorist attack on US soil'), will be the ultimate yardstick by which 'the people' will judge George W. Bush, excepting the economy. The reason being is that despite all the criticism, I believe American's whether to the right, or to the left are caring people; in this context meaning the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. All of them have families here that irrespective of political outlook want to see them come back, alive and without the added colossus of being seen as anything other than honorable people who served their country, also irregardless of whether the 'war' was 'justified' based on what we all know (i.e. the 'W..M.D.' issue). Before anyone criticizes me about calling the troops honorable in light of Abu Ghraib, I would say it is not level headed to condemn soldiers who were not party to those events, along with those who were. I would also say that it is my perception that whoever said that those "responsible for the policy', should be held to a more vigorous accounting than those who were caught (England, etc..) probably knows more about events behind the scenes than all the self-proclaimed experts in the media. The people of the world and American's in particular, have paid through the nose for George Bush before he has even left office, the 'real cost' of the war, in dollars and cent's doesen't even kick in until after he leaves office (how convenient!). Not to mention, whether the world is a 'safer place' (I bet I speak for a lot of people when I say it will at least be safer because he will no longer be President, and not because of what he 'accomplished' while Commander In Chief) As a result of the Bush Doctrine, the world situation, already fraught with tensions in regards to North Korea, the ever violatle Middle East and the ascension of China as both an economic and military power, is compounded by a 'psuedo-Crusade slant' to the ostensible 'War on Terror', a direct result of the Iraq conflict, which, regardless of whether you agree or disagree, is percieved by many countries in the rest of the world as being - A. Unjustified, in light of the absence of W.M.D.'s B. A product of the neo-conservatives "Project for the New American Century." C. Just good-old fashioned desires in the power-elite of this country for 'American hegemony in the world." or D. All of the above. Can you imagine how much damage could have been avoided if the military action had stopped after Afghanistan, and a resolute campaign to manifest American resolution against terrorism across the board was the design instead of toppling Saddam? Our prestige would certainly be basically intact, it certainly isn't anymore. The right wing was laughing to scorn media comparisons to Vietnam in 2003, but they aren't laughing anymore.

Or to put it another way, once a individual (or a nation) adopts 'the ends justifies the means' as their 'credo' a pandora's box of potentialities arrive at the door to the great unknown, commonly referred to as 'the future' none of which, in my opinion are 'choices' at all, but merely the equivalent to entering a room full of the most sordid characters imaginable, beckoning "Come on In."

Unfortunately, I do not have anything to offer regarding Gordon Winslow, but am searching other information sources, in the meantime there is this, from maryferrell.org on "Thresher" search Hull-DeMohrenschildt, interesting THRESHER, ----- ----- Sources: CD 913, pp. 67-68; CD 1484, pp. 8-10; HSCA Vol 12, pp. 91-92; The Iconoclast, march 19026, 1976, p. 3, Vol X, No. 2; CIA 225-89, released as CIA 104-10015-10221, Lifton's pp. 107-111 Mary's Comments: Nuclear-powered, deep-diving submarine sunk April 10, 1963, with 129 aboard. See Edward Frank BRAY. "Lt Cdr Harry Hull (housemate of George deMohrenschildt in Washington, D.C., September 1941) commander of Thresher during World War II according to Who's Who in America, 1968-1969." On page 2, paragraph 5, of CIA 225-89, Polish chauffeur told of Soviets' part in sinking of U.S. Navy nuclear submarine (see Lifton p. 110).

Thanks you James for posting the crew list. Also, a New Orleans researcher, John Gooch, says that in his investigation of the Rosco White ONI teletype orders, he is led to beleive that the teletype maching that made them was from the Thresher. Bill, With reference to the above, what do you make of it?

FWIW Well, for some reason the software is not allowing me to upload this, but if you go to Box 1, Folder# 3, Item# 26 of the DPD Archives: http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1.htm There is a memo there from Detective B.M. Waters to Deputy Chief Lunday concerning a 1966 phone call from a guy named James Hacker in Los Angeles. He said that Oswald was paid by Jack Ruby to kill Connally. What was interesting to me is the amount of time he spent on the phone with two Detectives and FBI Agent Bob Gemberling. I spent some time on this subject a shile back. Coincidentally, the Thresher went down on the same day that someone took a potshot at General Edwin Walker. I tried to determine if the initials JFCOTT were an acronym for something. I didn't come up with anything. Steve Thomas Coincidentally, the Thresher went down on the same day that someone took a potshot at General Edwin Walker. If one goes to the Dallas City Hall Website under JFK Collection, there is some documentation in relation to the 'Justice For the Crew of the Thresher,' allegations. This is the main URL http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/ Go to Box 18, and the documents are listed under Box 18, Folder 5 1. Handbill, by Edward F. Bray. Handbill concerning the Warren Commission and Justice for the Crew of the Thresher, (Original Signed), 03/15/65. 00003740 3 pages 18 05 001 3740-001.gif 3740-002.gif 3740-003.gif I decided to update this thread for two reasons. 1. I have been studying this story recently and after looking at it have decided 'if it is credible' (key point) that it was a 'back-up story' to the now-infamous assertions that Lee Harvey Oswald was a 'lone-nut Communist.' (If you disagree read another post and don't read anymore please) 2. In light of an old story that COULD be related but is itself controversial and that is the 'allegations of Carrol Jarnagin,' Jarnagin was a Dallas attorney who testified before the Warren Commission asserting that he had overheard a conversation at Ruby's Carousel Club on October 4, 1963 'between Ruby and a man who he alleged was Lee Harvey Oswald, see (W.C. Vol 26 Exhibit 2821) The difficulty gauging Jarnagin's assertions (I will be forthright, in pointing out that he admitted to the Warren Commission he "had a drinking problem" and that the Commission Exhibit states that while he was listening to the conversation that "he was talking to Robin Hood,") is that in my opinion the Commission cannot be trusted as having the 'final say' on matters regarding the issue of conspiracy because of the numerous accounts of either 'altered testimony, badgering witnesses when they did not conform their testimony to the lone-nut version of Lee Harvey Oswald that was the foundation of the Commissions conclusions, etc...) Having said all that I discovered a 'transcript' of the conversation from Penn Jones Forgive my Grief Vol 1. page 54 which 'may be more detailed and lengthy' than what was contained in the WC Report.' In the transcript Ruby talks to Oswald 'about the job' half the money now and the other half later, as the conversation unfolds the key phrase in relation to the preceeding information posted is: "Are you sure that you can do the job without hitting anybody but the Governor" Jarnagin's story has been dismissed for the most part, Oswald's 'official' whereabouts on October 4, 1963 are that he had just returned to the United States from Mexico City. For more information see Crossfire - Jim Marrs pages 409-411 Final Comment: As with many other issues concerning events, chronology and credibility, Oswald's activities in the 30 day period prior to the assassination are still disputed and debated. I personally believe that the allegations of Oswald being in Austin and Houston prior to the assassination are true. I even have certain misgivings about the 'Jarnagin allegations' as I believe that Oswald and Ruby knew each other prior to October 4, but I am posting this 'for the record' and not to assert my own 'version of event's.' I have the pages copied from Forgive My Grief but did not put it on this post because it is incredibly long, I will do so if John Simkin, or members of the Forum feel it would be beneficial.

You really need to look at all the documents, including those provided about AMWORLD in Lamar Waldron’s book, and the filmed interview that Wheaton gave to William Law to fully understand how the evidence is building to show that Carl Jenkins and Chi Chi Quintero were involved in the assassination of JFK. The reason that Buttimer did not name Jenkins was because Wheaton asked her not to do this. Jenkins was identified by Wheaton because he sent the ARRB his CV (I have a copy of this CV). This CV clearly identified Jenkins. The other document that is important is the following: Gene Wheaton, note to the Assassination Records Review Board on National Air notepaper (undated): Carl (Jenkins) was my (National Air) Washington, D.C. rep. who connected me to Nestor Pino, Bill Bode, Rob Owen, Vaughn Forrest, Chi Chi Quintero, Nestor Sanchez, et al.” In the filmed interview Wheaton pointed out that it was Carl Jenkins he was talking about. He also added the name of Chi Chi Quintero as being one of the “assassination team”. The other gunmen came from the Operation 40 team. I can see why you are getting very emotional about this issue. People like Rob Owen are linked very closely to George H. W. Bush. I have also discovered other information that links Bush to this CIA team of assassins that killed JFK (I will be posting this later today under the heading "Ted Shackley and the Secret Team"). Carl Jenkins and Chi Chi Quintero are both alive. They are both aware of my web pages on them (the pages are both ranked number one on most of the search-engines). On these pages I have provided the evidence that I have accumulated against them. Through an intermediary I have sent them a list of questions concerning Gene Wheaton’s allegations. They have responded with “no comment”. I think that says a great deal. Compare it to the way you reacted when it was suggested that you might have been linked to the attempted assassination of George Wallace. There is an extensive amount of material concerning the Christic Institute, Daniel Sheehan, Kerry Sub-committee etc., (as well as how Oliver North asked the FBI to 'investigate' Sheehan in Peter D. Scott's book "Cocaine Politics." If you "search" the Mary Ferrel database (maryferrell.org under 'Christic Institute' then ONLY if you have an account with Amazon.com, you can search Scott's book, and it will pull up the pertinent pages, see 137,138 and 157, it is enlightening, to say the least.) A Record from Mary Ferrell's Database WHEATON, GENE "MILTON GENE WHEATON" Sources: Inside the Shadow Government, Christic Institute; Radio tapes from Oct and Nov 1992.