Thomas Graves

Howdy Bob! Maybe. Maybe not. ........... Naw. Probably not. I think we've all heard that Lovelady was pretty short. IMHO, that's why he looks kinda "dwarfish" sitting in that chair in Homicide and Robbery. It's possible that Shelley was pretty short, too, but just a little taller than Lovelady. To me, "Shelley" (with his distinctive hairstyle) looks a little taller than "Lovelady" in Couch. But really, it's Lovelady's bold plaid shirt and bald spot and receding hairline in Couch that "does it" for me. Sorry, Bob, but why don't you go ahead and knock yourself out, anyway. Unless you find out that Shelley was only or 5' 3" or 5' 4" (or so), I'm sticking with Shelley's and Lovelady's being "captured" in Couch. -- Tommy

Howdy Bob! Yeah, right. "Almost everything" in (contrast-adjusted?) Couch is "plaid" like the crazy-ass web spun by a spider on LSD, whereas Lovelady's shirt in Couch, Buck, Hughes, Martin, and Groden just happens to be dramatically and distinctly plaid in the true meaning of the word. LOL -- Tommy

Thanks Larry, Goes to show even an old dog like me can learn something new from time to time. (lol) Good to see you posting here in the "new format." -- Tommy PS I guess that's why I used the conditional "may" a couple of times in my post. It's a "survival mechanism" that I've developed due to the fact that I've had "egg on my face" way too many times in this "rabbit hole" known as the JFK assassination.

Howdy Bob! Great! So, apparently, you agree that "Dwarf Man Sitting In A Chair Watching Oswald Being Brought Into Homicide And Robbery At 2:02 PM on 11/22/63" is Lovelady. That's wonderful. BTW, did you notice the "male pattern" bald spot on the top-rear of his head, and that distinctive plaid shirt he's wearing both of which are visible (on the shorter guy on the right) in the enhanced and enlarged Couch frames Barto posted a couple weeks ago? Or are you still living by that river in Egypt? -- Tommy

If you guys will read what I posted about "Jack T. Martin" back in the day, you'll see that I found someone in Minnesota by the name of John Timothy Martin who "fills the bill," for our purposes, age-wise and address-wise. -- Tommy (with smiling "sun" face, wearing sunglasses)

Some clues for all those "newbies" out there: Richard Cain was not only mobbed-up, but he spoke Spanish fluently and was a wiretapping specialist who may have worked in Bill Harvey's top-secret "Staff D" in Mexico City. Staff D was a CIA-NSA subsection of the CIA's assassination-oriented ZRRIFLE program. Cain is known to have worked as a detective in Mexico City in the early 1960's, and may have been in and out of Mexico during the period of time that LHO was telephonically impersonated there. More on "Staff D," here: https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret_Chapter2.html -- Tommy (with smiling "sun" face, wearing sunglasses)

Why are you so invested in all of this? To save us? To save the country? The world? BTW, You gonna vote for Trump? Johnson? Stein? Nader?

Okay, David. Take some deep breaths. Maybe you should have been a missionary, instead? You know, to save people? From themselves? And the Devil? And to set them straight?

Everything's a big conspiracy, Sandy. Probably weren't even real gold nuggets. Probably altered. By the CIA.

Paul, The problem is that very few members appear to be willing to "stick their neck out" on this. Maybe it's because they're afraid of incurring Prudhome's wrath, or maybe they're just waiting and hoping to be convinced by Larsen that Fetzer and Cinque were right (!!!) and that Altgens 6's "Doorman" (I'm not talking about "Prayer Man," here) was Oswald, not Lovelady, and that Altgens 6 and everything else showing Lovelady on 11/22/63 was altered or fabricated weeks or months or years after the assassination !!!. (lol) But thanks for "sticking your neck out," Paul! -- Tommy (with a smiling "sun" face, wearing sunglasses)

Dearest Sandy, I'm not a hardrock miner, so I didn't "strike" gold, but I did manage to pan some out after having reduced the volume of the sandy / rocky material with the help of my $750 Thompson's dry washer [q.v.]. As to how much? Well, let's just say I won't be ordering a new Ferrari next week. As to where? Google "chocolate mountains" in south eastern California north of Winterhaven... -- Tommy

Dear Michael, I guess you have a hard time differentiating my tongue-in-cheek comments from my serious ones. I guess I should have put the hyphenated word highly-influential in quotation marks for you. (lol) BTW, when you say, "Tom, ... I thought we went over this," you sound like a parent chiding his or her naughty or recalcitrant child, and you also sound as though you speak for all of the members of this forum. Did you think I had addressed this "poll" only to you? Perhaps you have noticed, Michael, that, over the years on the various threads about "Is that Lovelady smoking on the TSBD steps after the assassination?" and "Who is that Dwarf Man who's watching LHO being brought into Homicide and Robbery, anyway?" and "Is that really Lovelady or Dougherty on the 6th floor with the detectives and policemen?," very few members have voiced an opinion as to who these different "characters" are, and specifically, whether or not some or all of them really are, or even could be ... (gasp!) ... Lovelady? I've been trying for some time now to explain my reasons for believing that all of the above mentioned "characters" (with the possible exception of the guy with the detectives on the 6th floor) are, indeed, Billy Nolan Lovelady. And, more importantly, that Lovelady was photographically "captured" in Couch walking / running down Elm St. Ext. about twenty seconds after the final shot, based, as luck would have it, on the fact that we not only know what Lovelady looked like (from the Groden photograph, the FBI photographs, the 1957 wedding photograph, etc), but also based on the valid and plausible supposition that we know what shirt he was wearing on 11/22/63, as it appears in the so-called "Neanderthal Man" and the "Dwarf Man" photos of him. Recently, I've been trying to help members "connect the dots" photographically-speaking, by pointing out certain mundane-but-important physical similarities between "Neanderthal Man," "Dwarf Man," and the guy walking / running down The Extension and the "photographically-known" pre and post-assassination Lovelady, to wit: the male pattern bald spot on the top rear of his head, his distinctive receding hairline, the little "dot" (hair?, mole?, scar?) at the inside edge of his left eyebrow, his short stature, and yes, his distinctive plaid shirt. It concerns me that so few members have said over the years that they believe "Neanderthal Man" and / or "Dwarf Man" (and to a lesser extent "6th Floor Man") is / are Lovelady. Because it makes me think that people like Larsen and Prudhomme are putting sufficient doubt into members' minds about the non-Lovelady identity of "Neanderthal Man" and "Dwarf Man" that they come to fervently believe that, hey, Fetzer and Cinque were right, after all! And therefore, that couldn't possibly be Lovelady walking / running down Elm Street Extension! And into the never-ending Klein Bottle-like rabbit hole said erstwhile members ... go. LOL -- Tommy (with smiling "sun" face, wearing 100% IR and UV-protected cheap sunglasses)

Bumped for Cowboy Bob.

Ray, I, too, miss that feature. I always look forward to seeing that Cowboy Bob is here. -- Tommy (with smiling "sun" face, wearing sunglasses)

Barto, Do you think Dwarf Man Sitting in a Chair looks like Lovelady, or not? IIRC, Highly-influential Sandy Larsen and Robert Prudhomme think Dwarf Man's someone else altogether (who just happened to be wearing a shirt like Lovelady's that day), or that that clip was created months after the assassination, or something. -- Tommy (with smiling "sun" face, wearing sunglasses)

Why is no one posting? I go away for five days and it seems to wither on the vine. -- Tommy (with a smiling "sun" face, wearing sunglasses).

Howdy Bob! In other words, as far as you're concerned, Baker could have run anywhere as long as it wasn't up the front steps? -- Tommy (with smiling "sun" face, wearing sunglasses)

bumped

Okay, Bob. Whatever turns you on. But I thought you said Baker was running to the corner to talk with a policeman (or my idea: to the corner, or where-ever, to ask Running Woman what she'd seen), not towards the steps, for cryin' out loud. -- Tommy

Howdy Bob! You often accuse me of putting words in your mouth, Bob, so I find it amusing that you are doing that to me here. If you will take the time to read that post again, you will see that I said "about" or "or so" or words to that effect. (Going from memory here.) That wording, in-and-of-itself, precludes the possibility that what I wrote was "my conclusion." Why are you always twisting my words like that, Bob? Sheesh. -- Tommy PS I'm finally "out of here" for three or four days. Goin' to the grocery store now to get me some ice and some "grub," and then I'm hittin' Interstate 8 East and going gold prospectin', as I believe I told you I would be doing in the PM I sent you yesterday evening. C-ya, Cowboy Bob. I'll try to help you some more when I get back...

Howdy Bob! From my earlier post, this thread: (slightly edited for clarification and emphasis) "But even if [the pocket] did disappear, there are several innocent and plausible scenarios in which Lovelady could have been photographed in a plaid shirt that was [color and pattern-wise speaking] [identical to or] only slightly different from the long-sleeved, plaid shirt he was photographed in on 11/22/63 by Ike Altgens in "Altgens 6," by Robert Hughes as the limo passed by the TSBD (as well as when Lovelady was smoking on the steps of the TSBD after the assassination), and by Charles Buck of WFAA-TV as the "male patterned" and the birth-dot marked or scarred left eyebrow Lovelady was sitting in a chair in the DPD's Homicide and Robbery Department, for cryin' out loud, at 2:02 pm on that fateful day. And let us not ignore the fact that in Couch, Lovelady was photographically "captured" about 20 seconds after the assassination, sporting the distinctive bald spot on the top-rear of his head, his vertical white scar on the left side of his head, and wearing a long-sleeved plaid shirt with bold white stripes in the same places as they are other photos of him, while walking / running down the Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard." I don't have time to find it right now and post it and copy and paste it here for you Bob, but I did recently post somewhere (maybe even on this thread) a detailed description of those possible innocent and plausible scenarios I allude to, above. (I'm sure you can find it if you want to.) -- Tommy

Dear Sandy, Can't you see Lovelady's "male pattern" bald spot in the "strip" that clearly shows the bold plaid pattern of his shirt? -- Tommy

Well, you see, Michael, it's this way. The more time spent talking about trivial things such as Lovelady's shirt pocket, the less attention is paid to topics that might actually unravel this murder case. The operative word here is "distraction". I believe that something as simple as a pocket disappearing can lead to a significant discovery.There has to be, after all, a less-than-innocent explanation for the disappearance. Dear Sandy, As you know, or at least I hope you do, I honestly think the pocket did not disappear at all, but that it's simply difficult for most people to make out in Groden's 1976 photo. But even if it did disappear, there are several innocent and plausible scenarios in which Lovelady could have been photographed in a plaid shirt that was only slightly different from the long-sleeved, (reddish) plaid shirt he was photographed in on 11/22/63 by Ike Altgens in "Altgens 6," by Robert Hughes as the limo passed by the TSBD (as well as when Lovelady was smoking on the steps of the TSBD after the assassination), and by Charles Buck of WFAA-TV as the "male patterned" and the birth-dot marked or scarred left eyebrow Lovelady was sitting in a chair in the DPD's Homicide and Robbery Department, for cryin' out loud, at 2:02 pm on that fateful day. And let us not ignore the fact that in Couch, Lovelady was photographically "captured" about 20 seconds after the assassination, sporting the distinctive bald spot on the top-rear of his head, his vertical white scar on the left side of his head, and wearing a long-sleeved plaid shirt with bold white stripes in the same places as they are other photos of him, while walking / running down the Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard. I don't want to be rude, Sandy, but why in the world can't you accept that? Is it just too mundane, or too simple, for your taste? Are you perhaps driven to perceive things in the JFK assassination according to some kind of predetermined, conspiratorial-minded, very specific "agenda"? I'm sorry, Sandy, but if that's the case, then really ... what kind of "researcher" is that? Sincerely, -- Tommy FWIW, At this stage of my learning process (I've been "at it" for about ten years now), I don't really care where Lovelady (or Shelly, for that matter) went, or what Lovelady / Shelley were doing, say, 45 seconds after the assassination. I'm just trying to show you (and other serious thinkers) why I am personally convinced that Billy Nolan Lovelady was walking / running down Elm Street Extension about twenty seconds after the final shot. If I am unable to convince you of that little thing, then "so be it."

Bumped

[...] When Nagell warned LHO not to get involved [with pro-Castro Cubans in an attempt to get into Cuba], Nagell was speaking as a double-agent -- on the KGB side -- to LHO as a Fake FPCC officer. Nagell gave LHO two warnings: (1) that the Cubans he was dealing with were double-agents, faking him out; and (2) that if LHO succeeded in getting a visa to Cuba from Mexico City, that Nagell would have to shoot LHO dead. Nagell would have shot LHO dead, too, because Nagell was a double-agent, and he had to keep up appearances to the KGB, otherwise the KGB would have figured out that Nagell was a double-agent. [...] FWTW, this reminds me of Frank Sturgis' killing 71 Batista supporters in Cuba on January 11, 1959, because he was pretending to be pro-Castro at the time. -- Tommy