Thomas Graves

According to Jim Garrison, a Charles Krop, with the Illinois Migrant Council in Chicago, called NOPD Sgt. Duffy in 1967 and told him that a day or two after the JFK assassination two anti-Castro Cubans, Daniel Milian and Carlos Rodriguez, had visited him, requesting funds for a Castro assassination attempt. Krop said the two Cubans mentioned that the leaders of the project were named Shaw and Ferrie, from New Orleans, and that "Rusk and the CIA knew about their work." Anyway, here's Krop's obituary: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/elpasotimes/obituary.aspx?pid=159580307 There are several FBI documents about Carlos Rodriguez Quesada and Daniel Milian. You can find some of them here: https://www.maryferrell.org/php/showlist.php?docset=1758&sort=title&page=2 -- Tommy PS I've read somewhere that Garrison considered Krop and Bannister's employee, Joe Newbrough, to be "nuts," and therefore discounted their statements.

Dear Jim, At first I thought the CIA had stolen page three and page four from this document http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/29673/rec/1 , too, but then I found them at another source: Memorandum - Page three - September 12, 1977 [...] recently, I have had to re-evaluate it as probably accurate because; of the specificity of detail in the statement. For example, during my earlier reading of it, I apparently missed the detail which Whalen provided concerning Ferrie's and Shaw's having learned from an "inside*' source — Dean Andrews — that I was about to start an investigation of (the New Orleans aspect of) President Kennedy's murder. (As a matter of fact. Dean Andrews was — by a number of months -- the first person I ever talked to at any length about the assassination and the fact that the Warren Commission conclusion was imppfit-i I hie [sic]. Having studied his patently evasive statement made before the Commission that one " Clay Bertrand " -- a man Little known or uknown to him, depending upon which part of his testimony you read -- had called him and retained him to represent Lee Oswald in Dallas, I arranged a lunch with Andrews at Broussard's Restaurant. At that time, I informed him that it was apparent to me that he was concealing the true identity of the man who called him about re- presenting Oswald and, when he demurred, I indicated — in effect that I intended to find out what the true facts were, I doubt that, even now, any members of my former staff knew that our whole inquiry really started off with my questioning of Dean Andrews. (But, as his statement indicates, Whalen learned that from Pershing.) R: Police report of August [?], 1961, concerning an investigation of David Ferrie with regard to a run-away youth, who apparently lived with him for awhile, named Alexander Landry, Landry was seen in Ferrie's company at a time when they were picking up Layton Martens from work. Martens is described in the report as “working in the Balter Building for a Cuban Organization helping Cuban refugees in the current Cuban situation, which is headed by Mr, Arcacha Smith." In the report, Martens stated to the officers that he "sometimes stays with Capt, Ferrie and that his mother had just recently moved and he wasn't certain of her address." The report goes on to describe a telephone call, in Ferris's behalf, made by Arcacha in which Arcacha stated that he could get the boy (Landry) back for them if they would get a signed statement from the parents indicating that they would not press charges against Ferrie. This is another bit of information helping to illuminate the relationship of Layten Martens, an apparent protege of Shaw's, to David Ferrie , Sergio Arcacha and the anti-Castro Cuban organization. T: A memorandum based upon a phone call to the District Attorney's office from Charles Krop -- employed by the Illinois Migrant Council in Chicago — who, shortly after the President's death, had been contacted by a Cuban organization in Chicago which was raising funds to assassinate Fidel Castro, In this connection, Krop stated that the Cubans informed him that the two men in charge of the project were named Shaw and Ferrie and were from New Orleans After describing the details of his having informed the FBI of the Cuban group’s contacts with him, Krop describes in some detail one of the Cubans contacting him — one Carlos Rodriguez [Quesada], apparently a disenchanted one-time Castro warrior. U: Memorandum in 1967 based upon a phone call from the under-cover agent (Jimmy Johnson) whom the N.0. District Attorney’s office by now had working as a mechanic with David Ferrie, Johnson describes Ferrie as having been visited by a Cuban or Mexican named "Carlos" , (See preceding note re: Krop communication) , Memorandum - Page four September 12, 1977 V: A memo based upon a contact with the office by Martin Waldron, then of the Houston Bureau of the New York Times. According to Bethell, who received the call, the New York Times had received two memos from one of their local stringers concerning a possible Shaw-Ferrie connection — however the Times was, thus far, taking no action in connection with the story. According to these memos, one Ray Sadler — then a University of South Carolina professor - - had done a doctoral thesis on an abortive (anti- Batista) invasion from New Orleans back in 1947. An airport had been leased near Venice, Florida, by a man named Shaw . One of the pilots for the anti-Cuban mission reportedly was David Ferrie . The name of Scott Wilson , then connected with the International Trade Mart and named as a participant in the intended operation, is a correct description of an individual then of some influence in New Orleans in political and civic affairs (Note: The memo explains why the invasion plan was aborted. It should be observed, however that — in spite of its later unanticipated problems with Castro in pre-Castro days, the American government, primarily through the CIA, was engaged in sponsoring attempts to accomplish Batista's removal. The information given the office in this call is supported by interesting detail, although the date given for the abortive invasion may be a bit early [perhaps a typographical error]. As with so many leads we received, our office apparently lacked the time and personnel to follow up on this one. It is apparently still a viable lead with regard to follow-up potential). W: Letter from one Griscom Morgan , of Yellow Springs, Ohio, concerning a friend of his whose mother had been housekeeper to Clay Shaw . According to Morgan, the lady was terrified by her knowledge of Shaw's activities. According to Morgan, “this in- cludes knowing of Ferrie's association with Shaw. " Another in- teresting lead apparently farmed out to someone on the staff but not followed through. By early 1967 we were in the center of the hurricane and shortage of leads connecting Shaw and Ferrie and the anti-Castro Cubans and Banister operation was no longer our main problem. However, following through on all of them was — and, in hindsight, our available staff did not handle all of the follow- ups effectively). X: An unsigned letter providing the name and address of Woodrow [?] Hardy of Tampa, Florida, as a source of information concerning Shaw's associations. The writer of the letter stated that Hardy remodeled Shaw's New Orleans home. He stated further that during that period. Hardy saw "many Cuban types" at Shaw's place. He described Hardy as saying that "one man in particular, who denied to you that he knew Shaw, but stood outside of the resi- dence and couldn't help but know Shaw."* (It is interesting to note that this letter, which describes Hardy as a Tampa resident, is dated May 20,1968. By that time, Kerry Thornley had become a resident of Tampa). Another lead long over-due for a follow through. TUCKER, SCHONEKAS & GARRISON 710 CARONOflET [sic] ST. NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA 70130 Y: Statement of Thomas Clark, one of Ferrie's covey of youthful associates. Here he described how, in 1964 while working at Ferrie 's service station he saw a "small, white compact car, foreign, Renault type, come there twice." He could not make out the occupant "but it was a big man" who never got out of the car. He would wind up, talking with Ferrie, "staying in the car for over an hour. The car never came and got gas." I do not find any material at hand telling us what kind of car Shaw had or had avail- [end of page four] Enjoy!, -- Tommy

Chris, Your theory is interesting in that it could also possibly tie Ruby's activities in with those of Cohen's boss Bugsy Siegel and Bugsy's moll,Virginia Hill. Hill had been importing heroin from Mexico (and Cuba?), transporting shipments from her bar in Nuevo Laredo, Mexico, to Harold "Happy" Meltzer who was living just across the border in Laredo, Texas. (Yes, Laredo. As in Richard Case Nagell.) See Strength of the Wolf by Douglas Valentine. It's interesting to note that, according to the Federal Bureau of Narcotics' book "The Mafia," Meltzer was considered as a possible CIA assassin on December 19, 1960. And, of course, Johnny Roselli. Regarding the Chicago Outfit's attempt to move into Dallas, here's an interesting newspaper article from December, 1946. The "Romeo Frank Natti" who was arrested was also known as Jack Knapp. http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1946/12/20/page/10/article/chicago-gangs-gambling-plot-nipped-in-texas From an informative article: "On November 6, 1946, Pat Manno [of Chicago] arrived in Dallas and registered at the Adolphus Hotel. Early the next morning Manno, Paul [Roland] Jones, Jack Knapp (the syndicate representative in Wisconsin and a nephew to Manno), and Lt. George Butler of the Dallas Police Department, met with Sheriff Guthrie at his residence for nearly three hours. They talked about establishing a nightclub as a front for gambling operations in Dallas, but Ruby's actual role in managing such a place is questionable despite allegations to the contrary. In 1979, the Select Committee on Assassinations concluded that there is no hard evidence that Ruby was the man the Chicago mob had in mind for such a delicate assignment." http://www.richardlindberg.net/articles/chicago_mob.html Last but not least, here's more on Romeo Frank Natti / Romie J. Nappi / Frank Knapp / etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romie_Nappi -- Tommy

Dear Brian, Chris Davidson's blue-green lines help us to realize that Prayer Man simultaneously lowers his hands and raises his head. Interestingly, Billy Lovelady leans forward (or as Bart says, starts to go down the steps) at the same time. Prayer Man and Lovelady are obviously reacting to the sound of a shot, as are one of the two Khaki Guys (who turns his head towards the TSBD) and two or three of the ladies standing on the sidewalk who raise their hand to their mouth. Your "elongated head" is not a photographic artifact but a combination of Prayer Man's now-raised head and his now-visible white T-Shirt under his partially unbuttoned outer shirt. -- Tommy

Chris, We know that Ruby was born and raised in Chicago, and started out being a runner / errand boy for Al Capone. One thing leads to another and he becomes an official of the mobbed-up Junk Handler's Union, murders someone in the Junk Handler's Union office, and eventually moves to Dallas in '47 to help the Chicago Outfit "move in" there. It seems he was already pretty well connected to the Chicago Syndicate at that time. So Nixon does The Syndicate a little favor by asking his buddy, JEH, to make it so's Ruby don't have to do no testifyin' before no stinkin' Congressional Committee whiles Ruby's so busy down there in Big D in '47. You heard of Paul "Needle Nose" Labriola, Paul Roland Jones, etc? https://books.google.com/books?id=7U8PAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT319&lpg=PT319&dq=ruby+%22paul+needle+nose+labriola%22+%22paul+roland+jones%22&source=bl&ots=wh5ON5AdHZ&sig=PLb5HfSdxZ-xpelo-v4Si1ExzYA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwijhuHnpq7PAhVkVWMKHcn4Ay8Q6AEIIjAB#v=onepage&q=ruby%20%22paul%20needle%20nose%20labriola%22%20%22paul%20roland%20jones%22&f=false http://www.investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=4245&mn=534611&pt=msg&mid=9041354 -- Tommy

Sandy, And if you want to keep a really open mind, you should consider the "remote" possibility that he had no CIA ties, right? Or have you already made your mind up on that? (lol) -- Tommy That's a good question Tommy. A few months ago I would have said that Ruby probably had Mafia ties, and those ties were working for the CIA. So the CIA ordered the Mafia to kill Oswald, and the Mafia ordered Ruby to do it. Now I'm more inclined to think that Ruy had direct ties to the CIA. Because it appears that he worked with Oswald, with Nixon at one time, and had a security clearance at least once. If Ruby had Mafia connections, I now think that that was part of his cover. But actually I think he was more independent than that. Sandy, Have you considered the possibility that Nixon either lied to someone in the FBI about Ruby's working for him, or, more likely, that Nixon asked his buddy J. Edgar Hoover (maybe even at my hometown's now non-existent Hotel Del Charro!) to arrange for Ruby's not having to appear before the HUAC as a favor to Sam "Momo" Giancana, and that Ruby never actually did work for Nixon? -- Tommy Tommy, I generally don't go looking for alternative explanations when a simple one seems to fit well. Consider this possibility: Nixon, being the lover of dirty tricks that he was, got involved in McCarthyite activities as a congressman. Somehow he meets Ruby and hires him to assist in those activities. Later, as vice president, Nixon was put in charge of the CIA's involvement in anti-Castro activities. (Yay... more dirty tricks!) Nixon again hires Ruby. Or rather, has the CIA hire him to assist in those activities. This is how Ruby and Oswald know one another. That fits together rather neatly, don't you think. Unless a conflict arises, I see no reason to consider more complicated scenarios. That said, however, I am open to other simple possibilities. I don't know anything about Momo Giacana. Do you have any simple scenarios in mind? Sandy, "[The Chicago Syndicate's Sam] Giancana's half-bother Chuck and nephew Sam claimed in their 1992 book Double Cross that the Mafia don had a long, warm, and mutually rewarding relationship with Nixon that dated back to the 1940s. In those times, Giancana was helping Chicago Syndicate boss Anthony Accardo consolidate the city's rackets and gambling operations, and Nixon was a freshman congressman from California. In recounting for his relatives a big favor the congressman did for Giancana back then, the gangster established a direct link between Nixon and a Chicago hoodlum who later moved to Texas and went on to shoot Lee Harvey Oswald: 'Nixon's done me some favors, all right, got us some highway contracts, worked with the unions and overseas. And we've helped him and his CIA buddies out, too. xxxx, he even helped my guy in Texas, (Jack) Ruby, get out of testifying in front of Congress back in forty-seven … By sayin' Ruby worked for him.'" http://www.crimemagazine.com/richard-nixons-greatest-cover-his-ties-assassination-president-kennedy Sandy, please remember that back in 1947 Ruby was trying to help the Chicago Syndicate move into Dallas, and probably didn't want to testify to no stinkin' Congress. -- Tommy

I believe Ruby was a mechanic who helped create the events of 11/22/63 in Dallas, including the framing of “Lee Harvey Oswald,” and that he took his directions from the CIA’s David Atlee Phillips via the two men’s mutual friend (and Dallas radio station co-founder) Gordon McLendon. I've always thought that Ruby had Mafia ties AND did work for the CIA. But I'll try to keep an open mind and pay more attention. Maybe he doesn't have Mafia ties after all. Sandy, And if you want to keep a really open mind, you should consider the "remote" possibility that he had no CIA ties, right? Or have you already made your mind up on that? (lol) -- Tommy That's a good question Tommy. A few months ago I would have said that Ruby probably had Mafia ties, and those ties were working for the CIA. So the CIA ordered the Mafia to kill Oswald, and the Mafia ordered Ruby to do it. Now I'm more inclined to think that Ruy had direct ties to the CIA. Because it appears that he worked with Oswald, with Nixon at one time, and had a security clearance at least once. If Ruby had Mafia connections, I now think that that was part of his cover. But actually I think he was more independent than that. Sandy, Have you considered the possibility that Nixon either lied to someone in the FBI about Ruby's working for him, or, more likely, that Nixon asked his buddy J. Edgar Hoover (maybe even at my hometown's now non-existent Hotel Del Charro!) to arrange for Ruby's not having to appear before the HUAC as a favor to Sam "Momo" Giancana, and that Ruby never actually did work for Nixon? -- Tommy

I believe Ruby was a mechanic who helped create the events of 11/22/63 in Dallas, including the framing of “Lee Harvey Oswald,” and that he took his directions from the CIA’s David Atlee Phillips via the two men’s mutual friend (and Dallas radio station co-founder) Gordon McLendon. I've always thought that Ruby had Mafia ties AND did work for the CIA. But I'll try to keep an open mind and pay more attention. Maybe he doesn't have Mafia ties after all. Sandy, And if you want to keep a really open mind, you should consider the "remote" possibility that he had no CIA ties, right? Or have you already made your mind up on that? (lol) -- Tommy

Dear Brian, It would appear that at least you finally understand what I'm talking about. Thank God for small miracles. -- Tommy

Dear Brian, When you say "the Davidson animated gif," I assume you're talking about the one below, yes? If so, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a GIF of "Prayer Woman's" face that Duncan put on this forum about a year ago, and which he deleted a short time later. ONCE AGAIN, THE GIF, BELOW, IS NOT WHAT I'VE BEEN TALKING WITH TO YOU ABOUT ON THIS THREAD. Apparently you never saw the GIF I am talking about. Unfortunately I can't show it to you. Why? BECAUSE DUNCAN DELETED IT A LONG TIME AGO. -- Tommy

Andrej, I don't think that's a "double forehead." I think Oswald Prayer Man has raised his head up and we also see his white T-shirt under his darker-colored outer shirt. -- Tommy Thomas: the signal in this particular area does not warrant any statement about whether it was a female or other head, or whether it was a T-short combined with outer shirt. Please have a look on the original Wiegman's frame. If you struggle to spot a human figure there, there is no chance to identify any details. It is likely that it was the brightness of the neck or T-shirt fusing with the head, however, this is already our speculation. Dear Andrej, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or flippant, but I don't struggle to see a human figure in the middle frame, above. Or this big one, here: Wiegman's film, Frame 133 [per Andrej] Maybe my eyes are just better than yours? (I cannot tell whether or not he has a cleft chin, however.) -- Tommy

Andrej, I don't think that's a "double forehead." I think Oswald Prayer Man has raised his head up and we also see his white T-shirt under his darker-colored outer shirt. -- Tommy

Dear Brian, Obviously, I'm not talking about Davidson's GIF, or some "isolated image" posted by Duncan. I'm talking about the large GIF of Prayer Man's head that Duncan put on this forum about a year ago, right before his "Prayer Person Was A Woman" (or whatever it was called) kinda morphed into the moderator-required thread you and I are posting on right here, and Duncan deleted that GIF during the morphing process. Evidently you don't know the GIF I'm talking about. The only way I was able to see Prayer Man's sideburns on his turned head was to free-frame that GIF many times (and very quickly) by "click-clicking" on my mouse over and over again. It was a very fleeting image. Why? Because Prayer Man turned his head very quickly. -- Tommy PS I can't imagine why Duncan removed that GIF after I'd mentioned the sideburns I'd seen in it.

Dear Brian, A woman with sideburns? I thought those existed only in the circus. -- Tommy

Chris, Several months ago, Duncan posted a large closeup GIF of Prayer Persons's head in which I detected (by freeze-framing very quickly) movement of PP's head to his right (and back again), and I could see sideburns on the left side of his face. So the existing "garbage" is good enough for that, if you know how to look for it (fast freeze-framing). I wish I could find that GIF again on some website so I could try to tell others what I did in order to see all of that. -- Tommy PS Perhaps Andrej or somebody could re-create the same GIF if Duncan's can't be found. bumped edited and re-bumped PS Duncan's GIF must have been from around that part of Weigman when there are no cars in the foreground, i.e., when Lovelady is leaning forward and Prayer Man has lowered his hands / raised his head, both apparently in response to their hearing a shot. (See below.) Credit: Chris Davidson

Dear Brian, So Hatman has a tiny little cleft in his chin. Which is so small that only you noticed it! If Hatman really was Ruby, that cleft would have been a lot more noticeable. To everyone. LOL -- Tommy

Chris, Several months ago, Duncan posted a large closeup GIF of Prayer Persons's head in which I detected (by freeze-framing very quickly) movement of PP's head to his right (and back again), and I could see sideburns on the left side of his face. So the existing "garbage" is good enough for that, if you know how to look for it (fast freeze-framing). I wish I could find that GIF again on some website so I could try to tell others what I did in order to see all of that. -- Tommy PS Perhaps Andrej or somebody could re-create the same GIF if Duncan's can't be found. bumped edited and re-bumped PS Duncan's GIF must have been of that part of Weigman where there are no cars in the forground, i.e., when Lovelady leans forward and Prayerman and raises his head, both apparently in response to their hearing a shot or the shots.

Chris, Several months ago, Duncan posted a large closeup GIF of Prayer Persons's head in which I detected (by freeze-framing very quickly) movement of PP's head to his right (and back again), and I could see sideburns on the left side of his face. I wish I could find that GIF again on some website so I could try to tell others what I did in order to see all of that. -- Tommy PS Perhaps Andrej or somebody could re-create the same GIF if Duncan's can't be found. bumped

Paul, Is Lewis providing his book on Amazon, or offering it for sale? -- Tommy

The real Jack Ruby shows his major cleft chin in both photos. It's like Grand Canyon compared to Hatman's little ravine. -- Tommy

I never realized the guy who shot Marina Oswald's husband had lived in Philadelphia. -- Tommy

Dear Brian, I think you are spaced out. -- Tommy

Tight lips and a dimple on his chin? LOL Just lip service without corroborating evidence.

Thanks, Bart. That's equivalent to $983 in today's money. -- Tommy

If you could explain in some reasonable way how and why "Ruby" was present in this photo and then back it up with some reasonable evidence that points to Ruby being in DC in 1953 then you would be making real strides in proving your theory that the man pictured is "Ruby". If you can't make a reasonable argument for either of those two requirements then your theory that the lip and chin match is spurious, at best. Chris, It's obviously just "lip service" without the corroborating evidence you suggest. -- Tommy