Thomas Graves

It ruined Monty's. No, not Pythons.

Ron, With all due respect, was that "A Bridge Too Far"? -- Tommy

David (don't take it personally; I capitalize the first letter of Putin's and Trump's and Assange's name, too -- just a civil habit I have, I guess), With all due respect ... Point being? -- Tommy

Good luck with that, Jason. The KGB was notorious for leaving "overt," verifiable facts lying around for the evil, evil, evil CIA and the not-so-evil (i.e., pro-Nosenko, pro-"Fedora," anti-Angleton) FBI to find. (lol) -- Tommy.

You still apparently don't "get it," Jason. I'm saying a good way for KGB "illegal" Marina to pro-actively deflect suspicions about her own "Communist" / "communist" (KGB) nature was to draw attention to (probably nonexistent) allegations by friends and acquaintances of DeMorhenschildt that HE was a Communist, and then deny those allegations against him, whether said "allegations" were correct or not. -- Tommy PS "Gay"? Who said anything about "gay"? Gemberling? Hoover? Tolson?

How old is your friend? Was he a military dentist in the 1950s? -- Tommy

Sandy, Believe it or not, I agree with you on this point. Back in the day, a "tough guy" like Lee Harvey Oswald would have been very proud indeed to have survived having two and one-half teeth knocked out in a fight. (lol) -- Tommy

Jason, Are you intentionally missing my point? Gleefully granted, lots of people in the USSR (from whence George de Mohrenschildt emigrated to the U.S. in 1938, and Marina Oswald -- née Marina Nikolayevna Prusakova, or some-such thing -- likewise did in 1962) joined the Communist Party (a prerequisite to joining the NKVD/KGB/GRU/MVD if one were so inclined) not for ideological reasons per se, but for the practical reason of "getting ahead" / "not having to wait in line for an hour to buy a roll of toilet paper" in the corrupt police state known as the USSR. In order to remain in good standing with said organizations, they had to learn not only how to walk the walk, but talk the talk, da? But wait. Why would Marina in a backhanded manner even suggest, via rumors of allegations, that George might have been Red (read: KGB), if not to exculpate herself from any similar such suspicions? That's the point I was trying to make, I guess. A reverse psychology disinfo op if you will ... not on my part, but on Marina's. Get it? -- Tommy

Jason, With all due respect, don't you think it's a little strange that someone who hid her Communist Party affiliation (Komsomol membership) from U.S. authorities would call attention to allegations of someone else's Red-ness and then dismiss said allegations as though (perish the thought!) she had never even thought of becoming a Young Communist or ... gasp ... a Leningrad-based KGB honey-trapping prostitute, herself? -- Tommy

Jason, Gee, I didn't know that. -- Tommy

Jason, Thanks for posting this document. I didn't realize that Marina had reported that GdM was often accused of being a Communist. Hmm. -- Tommy

. Paul, With all due respect -- Paradigm shift? Seeing as how I'm the only member who has been propounding the outrageous theory that the KGB might have killed Kennedy, or at least programmed and trained LHO to "do the deed" and then a-bit-too-late got cold feet (Khrushchev, that is), I'm honored to know that you are laboring under the delusion that I, Tommy Graves, am so incredibly influential in the JFK Assassination Research Community as to have somehow engineered a paradigm shift of such a controversial nature! Regard-less. As I have pointed out a couple of times over the last month or so, my not-so-grand theory is rather flexible and evolving. As proof of that I would like to inform you that I'm now thinking along the lines that the Ruskies didn't kill JFK after all, but that Fidel Castro (whom I believe secretly held a great amount of enmity towards Khrushchev and Kennedy) did, and very cleverly "patsied" both the KGB and the CIA in the process. Maybe Castro realized that Mr. K was trying to patsy both Cuba and the USA, and piggybacked Mr. K's op? -- Tommy Factoid: In describing the virtual ( i.e., non existent ) 9/27/63 Oswald Impostor in such a way as to practically scream out "KGB 'diplomat' Nikolai Leonov" to the HSCA lawyers in 1978, Cuban (former consul) Eusebio Azcue was obviously describing Leonov's hair color in definite, not just lighter than jet black versus jet black Hispanic traditional terms (e.g.,"rubio") when he volunteered that the Oswald he'd dealt with was either...... "blond or dark-blond." And no, Paul, regardless of what you might say, "dark blond" does not describe Lee Harvey Oswald's hair color.

Paul, With all due respect, cognitive dissonance on whose part? I guess the fact that Newman agrees with Angleton that Nosenko was a false defector, after all, yet believes that Angleton somehow masterminded the assassination, can only mean one thing: that Newman believes that the evil, evil CIA, rather than those very nice Ruskies (who evidently could be very devious sometimes), killed JFK. -- Tommy

LOL

According to Spartacus, Petty was instrumental in uncovering Hans Felfe, a KGB spy who had become head of West German Intelligence. Look him up. So he was wrong about Angleton's, Murphy's, and Bagley's being moles, wrong about Golitsyn's being a false defector, and wrong about Nosenko's being a true defector. Hey, nobody's perfect! I still think he was on the right track regarding George de Mohrenschildt. According to Petty via Dick Russell, VENONA decripts indicated that the KGB "illegal" had emigrated to the U.S. before WWII, lived in Mexico during the war, returned to the U.S., was a wheeler-dealer, and was "Polish" or some such northern Slavic nationality. Remember, Paul, Mozyr (in southern Belarus today) was only 300 miles to the east of the Polish border ... -- Tommy

Angleton didn't torture Nosenko. Nobody tortured Nosenko. Yes, Nosenko claimed later that he'd been tortured. But as it turns out, Nosenko was a false defector. (If you don't believe me, read Bagley's "Spy Wars" and "Ghosts of the Spy Wars," or ask John Newman, who has.) What the heck would you expect false defector Nosenko to say, once he'd eventually been "cleared" by gullible, agenda-driven people who were implicitly expected by Helms, and then Colby, and then Turner to "clear" him, you know, so that ops (which had practically ground to a halt) could finally get "back to normal"? That his bed was nice and comfy, the food was great, the reading materials marvelous, and his interrogators had been very, very kind to him? Factoid: Angleton, who was chief of CIA's Counterintelligence Division (CI), didn't put Nosenko in virtual solitary confinement for interrogation purposes, David Murphy, chief of Soviet Russia Division, did. http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/nether_fictoid2.htm -- Tommy

Gene, With all due respect, are you aware that on Tuesday the former Army Intelligence officer who authored "Oswald and the CIA," John Newman, told me on Facebook that he believes Nosenko was a false defector? Regardless, have you read Tennent H. Bagley's book, "Spy Wars," or his 35-page follow-up PDF, "Ghosts of the Spy Wars"? (I can tell Mr. Newman has.) -- Tommy

Paul, What are open-minded people to make of CI/SIG's Edward Clare Petty's belief that, based on some decrypted Venona intercepts Petty was analyzing shortly before he retired in 1974, George de Mohrenschild was probably a long-term KGB "illegal" in the U.S., working not against Nazi Germany, but against the good ol' U.S.A.? You know, ... like ... especially after WWII was ... like ... over? -- Tommy

I honestly think those signatures were made by two different people. There are too many small differences to be by the same guy, imho. The first "L" is taller than the second "L" in one of them, and vice-versa in the other signature. Closed "D" in one, open "D" in the other. The different "A"s (as Josephs rightly points out). Etc. Just my "two cents" ... if that's permitted. (lol) -- Tommy

Paul, With GdM, one never knew for sure what he was really up to. He may have been an NKVD (or some such thing) "illegal" spying on the Nazis and on us for all we know. -- Tommy

Paul, With all due respect, I thought that was a very good question that you asked me. Why do you now consider it to have been an unnecessary one? Just curious, -- Tommy

Michael, With all due respect, why stoop to his level? -- Tommy

Paz, With all due respect, if you will kindly post some examples of my (oh-so flagrantly) insulting James since I came back to the Forum about a month ago, I will gladly post some examples of his doing the same to me on a fairly regular basis over the years. And as regards my alleged writing "all the time" about KGB moles (and, by extension, the 90-plus years of Soviet/Russian KGB "active measures counterintelligence operations" oh-so artfully interwoven with 58 years of Soviet/Russian KGB Second Chief Directorate Department 14 "strategic deception operations" -- which in my humble opinion the JFK Assassination may have been an extreme example), all I can say is that I don't do it for my own personal enjoyment, but in an attempt to educate Forum members to the threat we have been facing in the Western world for a long time now, and which threat evidently came to fruition recently when the above-mentioned "KGB" operations culminated in the installation of our president a Russian-mobbed-up, blackmail-able, expendable, "useful idiot" of-and-for former KGB counterintelligence colonel Vladimir Putin. Now, if my posting on these things bother you so much, Paz, then maybe you should lobby the moderators to change the name of the "JFK Assassination Debate" forum to "Let's Talk About How The CIA Killed JFK!" forum. Or perhaps just ignore my posts altogether? -- Tommy

Michael, With all due respect, those theories may seem wacky to you and I, but their adherents do have the right to post as much as we want to about them as long as they are civil. And we, of course, have the right to respond them in an equally civil manner or, even better, to ignore them altogether. Not sure, though, that we have the right to "cover" their brand new posts with (imho insipid, vacuous) one-or-two-sentence posts of their own, as Paz has been doing to mine with some regularity over the past few weeks. -- Tommy

Paz, With all due respect, what's the matter with you? Are you sick? -- Tommy PS In case anyone is interested in what propelled Paz "over the edge," here's my post on another thread which seems to have really gotten to the poor thing: My reply to that post by Trejo: Correction: I don't know about his brother, but George de Mohrenschildt was born in Mozyr / Mazyr, Czarist Russia, in 1911. Mozyr is about 300 miles east of the Polish border, and 50 miles north of the Ukrainian border, in what is now the country of Belarus, the same country that your Minsk, the capital city and 200 miles to the NNW, is in. FWIW, Belarus didn't become a (very) short-lived independent state until 1918. In 1919 it became part of the USSR. In July 1990 Belarus once again became an independent state during the dissolution of the USSR. -- Tommy PS it's interesting to note that, according to Dick Russell, Angleton's underling in CI/SIG, Edward Clare Petty, thought not only that JJA himself was a KGB mole, but that, based on some decrypted WWII VENONA intercepts, "Polish" wheeler-dealer GdM, having immigrated to the U.S. in 1938 and having lived in Mexico during part of WWII, was probably a long-term KGB "illegal". (Well, at least Petty was right on the latter dude!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------