Thomas Graves

Paul, With all due respect, why don't you ask him? He's on Facebook. -- Tommy PS It's not "according to me," as you say. Facebook post, 2/28/18: Tom Graves "I truly appreciate that final sentence, John. BTW, is there a transcript available for this presentation you gave last year? (You speak too fast for me, and, IMHO, the sound quality is not the best.) https://jfkjmn.com/media/ Also, please remind me again -- do you believe Nosenko was a true defector? Thanks." His reply: John Newman "Tomas (sic) Graves no he was a false defector. I believe Alan Dale has put up my presentation at JMU on facebook." My witty retort: Tom Graves "Que tomas, Tomas? (Plus diacritics) (Spanish joke)"

Just to TeeJay. -- Tommy

James, With all due respect, many years after this anti-Angleton interview, Tennent H. Bagley, who was deputy chief and then chief of CIA's separate-from-Angleton Soviet Russia (Division) Counterintelligence department (SR/CI), wrote a book that shows that not only was Yuri Nosenko a false defector, but that Angleton wasn't such a bad guy, after all. The 2007 book is titled Spy Wars: Moles, Mysteries, and Deadly Games. https://archive.org/details/SpyWarsMolesMysteriesAndDeadlyGames Have you read it yet? If not, why not? How about Bagley's 35-page follow-up PDF, Ghosts of the Spy Wars from 2015 ? https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362 -- Tommy

edited and bumped

HAVE YOU NOTICED BART? THE CHILDREN ARE GETTING UPPITY.. -- posted by David Joseph 4 hours ago ----------------------------------------------------- David, With all due respect, what could be more childish than (paranoiacally?) tilting ones head down at such a sharp angle as to not even be close to looking towards the camera for your JFK Assassination Debate "profile" photo, "yelling" in upper-case letters, flooding posts with different kinds of silly emoticons (plural), and trying to belittle your opponent by writing the first letter of his or her name with a lower-case letter? -- Tommy

Correction: I don't know about his brother, but George de Mohrenschildt was born in Mozyr / Mazyr, Czarist Russia, in 1911. Mozyr is about 300 miles east of the Polish border, and 50 miles north of the Ukrainian border, in what is now the country of Belarus, the same country that your Minsk, the capital city and 200 miles to the NNW, is in. FWIW, Belarus didn't become a (very) short-lived independent state until 1918. In 1919 it became part of the USSR. In July 1990 Belarus once again became an independent state during the dissolution of the USSR. -- Tommy PS it's interesting to note that, according to Dick Russell, Angleton's underling in CI/SIG, Edward Clare Petty, thought not only that JJA himself was a KGB mole, but that, based on some decrypted WWII VENONA intercepts, "Polish" wheeler-dealer GdM, having immigrated to the U.S. in 1938 and having lived in Mexico during part of WWII, was probably a long-term KGB "illegal". (Well, at least Petty was right on the latter dude!)

Bart, With all due respect, are you so paranoid and such a bad reader as to think that I was somehow trying to support the Harvey and Lee and the Two Marguerites "theory" in my last post? Did that photo appear in the school's yearbook, or not? If so, I've offered a plausible explanation as to how such an amateurish touch up / photo alteration job was done on it (probably by a student) in an attempt to "show" that Oswald had lost one or two teeth, but did such a lousy job that it looks as though he lost 2.5 of them, and that he had some kind of horrible shin cancer on his lower lip, as well (nice "find," by the way). Btw, ... Ever find Gloria Calvery in Zapruder? Do you believe Nosenko was a true defector? (lol) Why did Duran and Azcue describe a (probably imaginary) Oswald impostor in such a way as to so closely resemble KGB colonel Nikolai Leonov? Hmm? Etc, etc, -- Tommy PS As far as I'm concerned, you can take your crummy, Josephs-like attitude and ..... it up your ....... ... .

Bart and Paul, Did the school have photo development and printing facilities for students interested in photography to use in a classroom or "lab" setting? If so, one of the students charged with selecting and putting together some of the photos in an interesting, creative kind of way for the yearbook could have done this understandably amateurish "photo alteration job" which purports to show Oswald missing A tooth. Oswald, whose tooth was most likely NOT knocked out, was undoubtedly "in" on the charade as evidenced by his agreeing to be photographed tilting his head back and exposing his open mouth so that the photo of "great fighter Oswald" could be altered to make it look as though he HAD lost A TOOTH OR TWO in the "vicious, vicious fight" that he had "somehow survived." This would explain why none of the other students in Oswald's classroom appear to have notice the photographer standing at the back of the classroom. They were instructed by the photographer or the teacher to pretend that nothing unusual was "going on" back there. All for the amusement and benefit of his (gullible?) classmates when they saw the photo in said yearbook! -- Tommy

On 2/28/2018 at 8:06 PM, Sandy Larsen said: The evidence is all circumstantial, Tommy. But there's a large amount of it and it is very compelling. My favorite evidence, because it is so simple and stands alone, is that James Angleton's CI/SIG division was investigating Oswald in 1960. Ann Egerter testified before the HSCA that the sole purpose of the CI/SIG division was to investigate CIA employees. They were tasked with "spying on spies." Therefore, Oswald was a CIA spy. ....... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy, With all due respect, you appear to be unwittingly oversimplifying it to your unwitting disadvantage. Angleton's SIG staff, headed by Birch D. O'Neal, was keeping tabs on lots of suspected American spies and moles. And potential ones as well. As well as persons of possible future operational interest. IIRC, Ergeter didn't open the 201 file on radar operator Oswald until after he'd already been in the USSR for a year. I believe that those two facts alone -- his being a defecting Marine Corps (Reserves) radar operator and his having disappeared in the USSR for such a long time -- would have made him a person of interest to O'Neal's SIG, don't you? Especially given the fact that for all CIA knew, he might "up and desire to return" to the U.S. some day. Maybe even as ... gulp ... a KGB or GRU spy. What makes you think SIG's simply having a 201 on a (probable, imho) person of interest like Oswald is some kind of proof that he or she was actually working for the CIA? Caveat: Regardless, even if Oswald was sent to the USSR on some kind of mission by CIA or ONI (or whomever), does that somehow prove that CIA (or whomever) killed JFK? -- Tommy edited and bumped

Sandy, With all due respect, what non-circumstantial evidence do you have that Lee Harvey Oswald was a witting CIA agent? -- Tommy

With all due respect, what's the bottom line of all of this? -- Tommy

Michael, I think Josephs is just trying to ingratiate himself with DiEugenio's personal cheerleader. (lol) -- Tommy

Thanks for posting this, Douglas. FWIW, ... About an hour ago, I asked Newman on FB what he thought about Yuri Nosenko -- fake defector or real defector? -- and he said "Fake".

Glad to have you back, Robert. I always have admired your wit and superior writing skills, BTW. And your grasp of the subject matter, tenuous though it may be. (lol) -- Tommy

Sandy, With all due respect, if a poorly maintained (and therefore now ineffective) sealant had been Oswald's only problem at the time of that checkup, how would you expect that problem to have been written about in the small space allowed for "problems" on that form? -- Tommy

Thanks, Paul! The only problem is, now we will forever be known by James DiEugenio and his legion of followers as "The TG & Trejo Tag Team." (Were any of those rabid Walker supporters recently arrived from Havana or the Soviet Union, by any chance?) -- Tommy

James, [deleted] ... [Y]ou still haven't read "Spy Wars" or Ghosts of the Spy Wars," have you? Much rather read "The Monster Plot," "Molehunt," "Cold Warrior," and (LOL) "The Ghost," wouldn't you? Because they fit in with and reinforce your narrative. (sigh) -- Tommy PS Is it okay if I start calling you "Horse With Way Too Much Fame"? (With apologies to that great band, "America.") You know, as in "You can lead a horse with no fame to water, but you can't make him think"? PPS Do you think the KGB sent "fake defector" Golitsyn here to tell the CIA and FBI, "Any future defectors you get will be fake, so don't trust them!" ???

Doug, Excellent article. Thanks for posting it. -- Tommy

Don, Why then do you think the files KGB archivist Mitrokhin copied down over the years say that? If the information is false (which it probably is, seeing how it also says that Nosenko was a true defector), then it seems obvious to me that it's a KGB disinfo job, not a CIA miracle one, which fooled British Intel historian Christopher Andrew, John Simkin, and many, many others. Totally unlike those nice, trustworthy Russians, huh? (sarcasm, Donald) -- Tommy

James, [deleted] You want me to provide you with cold hard evidence from the super secret Soviet-Russian KGB/FSB/GRU that the Kremlin recruited the guy who killed JFK? Why don't you ask your Putin-lovin' buddy Julian Assange to hack their files and share them with us? Or maybe do a Russian FOIA, James? Your challenge is comparable to a Medieval "judge" demanding that a suspected witch prove his or her innocence by remaining alive under water for five minutes. -- Tommy "Nope, we had nothing to do with it. In fact we didn't even interview the Marine Corps radar operator who had worked with the U-2 spy plane, or monitor him very closely because, you know, ... because he was so odd and dangerous-looking, even though we DID let him stay in Minsk for two and one-half years (purely coincidentally, just a few blocks from one of our training schools).

Sorry, Ron. I did not realize that Robert could not post now. Regardless, James DiEugenio asked me some questions and I'm responding to them. Is that okay with you? Is this your thread, btw? -- Tommy

Bumped for James DiEugenio. So he won't miss it. -- Tommy PS You never did answer my three specific questions: 1) Why don't you have a FB "profile" photo? 2) Are you a Trump supporter, now? 3) Are you with Binney and Assange on "Russiagate"?

James, Which post are you referring to? My most recent post was in response to your most recent one. Remember? If I missed something from an even earlier posts of yours, it was probably because I was laughing so hard that I had to go get a hanky. You want cold hard evidence that Oswald was recruited? Well gosh, if he had been recruited by those nice Russians, what kind of evidence would you reasonably expect to find, James? A KGB contract with Oswald's signature on it? Invitations to his KGB "coming out" party? A tattooed KGB serial number near Oswald's left armpit? Know what's even worse than not reading somebody's post at all, James? Reading it, but instead of understanding what the writer intended to say, twisting it so as to make it enabling of ones own "counter arguments." Did I say that the KGB should have shot Oswald and dumped his corpse at the U.S. embassy's front gate? Laughing Out Loud Excuse me ... I have to go get another hanky now. This one's soaking wet. -- Tommy

James, With all due respect (which, I'm sorry to say, never was very much, even at the beginning), what do you have against early, "vintage" (pre -1965 or so) Golitsyn? You do realize that, despite what your guys Wise and Mangold and ... gasp ... Morley may have led you to believe, Golitsyn helped CIA, FBI, and some foreign intelligence services to uncover several active, previously unsuspected Ruskie spies and internal "moles," whereas your boy Nosenko didn't do squat in that regard? I'm afraid you're showing even more ignorance than usual, here, James. -- Tommy PS You never did read "Spy Wars," or "Ghosts of the Spy Wars," did you.

Don, [deleted because it was way too sarcastic on my part] ... (lol), .... ...nice cover job! -- Tommy