Thomas Graves

David, With all due respect, seeing as how Wikipedia is a moderated "open source" website, you could always sign up with it and change or challenge something in an article if you think it's wrong. That is if you don't mind the evil, evil, evil CIA's being able to monitor your every breath, hiccup, sneeze, cough, and wind-breaking expedition. -- Tommy. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/wikipedia/

David, With all due respect ..... "Why did I come to this thread?" Wow. To help you to understand that George's original name really was " von Mohrenschildt, " that's why. Why did you think I came to this thread? -- Tommy PS Was the Wikipedia article right about that, btw?

Huh? You actually prefer a lower case "D"? Really? Sorry David, no matter how much I despise you, and Trump and Putin and Assange and ..., common civility requires that I spell your names with an upper-case first letter. That way I don't come across as some "small," vindictive person. Bummer, huh? -- Tommy PS Nice "pivot," by the way.

Ron, It's the mothers, of all questions. -- Tommy

Paz, Once again, nice "cover job." -- Tommy

James, With all due respect, has YOUR face changed over the years? You know, after you got "all grown up, and everything"? -- Tommy

David, With all due respect, according to your world-class research, is the Wikipedia article wrong when it says that George's name when he moved to the U.S. was "von Mohrenschildt," or was it "Daffy Duck" and the evil, evil, evil CIA made him change it? -- Tommy

https://www.scribd.com/document/183837066/SPAS-T-RAIKIN -- Tommy

Thanks for posting this, Douglas. How ironic that Raikin's works are housed at the same scholarly research facility as are those of the man who was very probably "Popov's Mole" -- Edward Ellis Smith. Here's part of Smith's (corrected-by-me) biography from the Hoover Institution's website: "Edward Ellis Smith was a historian, writer, foreign service officer, and CIA agent. After graduating from West Virginia University in 1939, he was deployed to Germany to serve in World War II. Following the end of the war, he was chosen to attend Naval Language School, where he became fluent in Russian. From 1946 until 1947, he attended Strategic Intelligence School at the Pentagon and Counter Intelligence School at Camp Holabird. Smith began work at the American Embassy in Moscow after graduation, serving as the assistant military and economic attaché. In 1950 he was appointed by United States Army Intelligence to serve as Section Chief, managing the Soviet economic and political section and analyzing policies on Soviet affairs. Towards the end of 1953, he resigned to become an intelligence officer for the CIA and completed various missions [not very successfully] throughout Moscow [in an attempt to set up "dead drops" for the soon-to-be-returning-from-his-GRU-post-in-Vienna, Pryor Popov, but was honey-trapped by his beautiful KGB maid, successfully recruited by the KGB, recalled to Washington in 1956 and fired from the CIA (but unfortunately not prosecuted), recontacted in Washington by the very high KGB officer who had originally recruited him in Moscow, and, for 'cover' became an Ohrana/Young-Stalin scholar, and, ironically, a bank vice president before dying in a mysterious hit-and-run accident in 1982 ..." http://www.oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark:/13030/kt8p303667/entire_text/ -- Tommy Question: Not wanting to hijack your thread, Douglas, I suppose I should pose a Raikin-related question. Okay, "Was Spas working for the CIA, or for the KGB?" Just wondering. LOL

David, Not sure what you're getting at in trying to make a big issue out of the fact that Azcue said in '77-'78 that the "Oswald" he'd (virtually, i.e., not really) dealt with on 9/27/63 -- an apparition which both Duran in '63 & '78 and Azcue in '78, for some strange reason, "described" in such a way as to point a guilty finger at the physically-very-distinctive-and-easy-to-distinguish-from-others Nikolai Leonov -- (gasp) ... WAS NOT the same guy Ruby killed. I mean, I mean, I mean ... I don't have a problem with that, do you? I mean ... seeing as how neither of us think Oswald went to the Cuban Consulate on 9/27/63, or was even in M.C. at the time? As I see it, the problem is that to the Mexican Police and to the HSCA, Sylvia Duran, like Azcue in '77-'78, effectively described the guy (with whom, I reiterate, neither Duran nor Azcue had dealt with on 9/27/63), in such a Nikolai Leonov-like way -- quite short, blond-haired, blue-eyed, 5' 7"-ish & 120 lbs -- but contradicted Azcue when she said this (virtual) dude was the same guy Ruby killed on 11/24/63. Poor girl, I guess she had to say something. Ditto Azcue. But who told her to say THAT, and why did she and Azcue differ on this crucial point? Question: Was Oswald quite short (according to really short Duran and probably to Azcue, who didn't bring it up -- lol), blond or dark-blond haired, about 30, skinny, blue-eyed, and very thin-faced? No, he wasn't. And only one person that we know of in Mexico City at that time matched that description - KGB-boy Nikolai Leonov. Who didn't go to the Cuban Consulate on Friday, September 27. For any reason whatsoever. Not even to somehow try to impersonate Lee Harvey Oswald (nor did anybody else for that matter -- Hey! Not Even Oswald, himself!) but was later very cleverly alleged by Duran and Azcue, in so many words, to have done so. David with a big D? Or do you agree with Sandy that the evil, evil, evil CIA must have sent a Nikolai Leonov clone down to M.C.? LOL -- Tommy Nice "catch" on Eddie's being only 5' 4" and 119 pounds in 1978, btw, "Big D"!

David, With all due respect, here's a little something from that evil, evil, evil CIA website known as Wikipedia. "(George DeMohrenschildt's) wealthy father, Sergey Alexandrovich von Mohrenschildt, was of German, Swedish, and Russian descent. ....... George von Mohrenschildt migrated to the United States in May 1938, after which he changed the nobiliary particle in his name from the German "von" to the French 'de'.[12] " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt -- Tommy

David, With all due respect, relax, my friend. Take some deep breaths. In through the nose, out through the mouth ... Your buddy, -- Tommy Teresa Proenza? You mean that member of the Cuban Communist Party who was the Cultural Attache or some such thing at the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City? And Nikolai Leonov, the noticeably short, skinny, 30 year-old, very thin-faced, blond or dark-blond haired, blue-eyed, suit-wearing KGB colonel "Third Secretary 'diplomat'" at the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City? You do realize, don't you, that I believe KGB-boy Leonov didn't go to the Cuban Consulate at all on Friday, September 27, but that Fidel Castro had Cuban Consul Eusebio Azcue describe, in 1978, the (non-existent) "Oswald" with whom Azcue had "virtually dealt" on 9/27/3 in such a way as to point a guilty finger at Leonov (and the KGB in general)?

David, With all due respect, what date, person, and expectation did I "misrepresent"? Did I say in my post that the Oswald Impersonator had claimed over the phone that KOSTIKOV had sent a "telegram" to the Soviet Embassy in Washington, D.C. on "Oswald's" behalf? Did not an Oswald Impersonator ask the Soviet Embassy Ruskie (over the phone on Tuesday October 1, 1963) about a telegram that he, "Oswald," evidently assumed (or had been assured by Kostikov and/or Yatskov and/or Nechiporenko on Friday or Saturday, 9/27 or 9/28) would be sent, on "his" behalf, from the Soviet Embassy-Mexico City to the Soviet Embassy-Washington, D.C.? -- Tommy PS By the way, David, just keep it up with your Forum Rules-breaking insults, and maybe you can get your you-know-what kicked off the Forum again.

Edited, expanded, and bumped for David "With a Capital "D" Josephs. Because he apparently missed the "allegedly" in the the original. Hopefully I won't have to explain what I meant in the just-now added "PS" at the bottom ... -- Tommy

David (with a capital "d"), With all due respect, I believe the "telegram" Steve is referring to is the one allegedly sent by Kostikov and the boys to the Soviet Embassy in Washington, DC, on Friday, September 27, 1963, to determine whether or not "Oswald" had, as he had allegedly claimed, been in contact with it (the Soviet Embassy in Washington, D.C.) previous to his (probably non-existent) journey to Mexico City on or around Thursday, September 26, and if so, whether or not said embassy in Washington D.C. had told him (Oswald) that he could get an instant visa to Cuba and/or the USSR in Mexico City. In other words, the same "telegram" that "Oswald" was asking about over the phone on Tuesday, October 1, 1963. You know, as to whether or not Kostikov and the boys had heard back yet from the Soviet Embassy in Washington, D.C.? You know, on that alleged matter? Yes? -- Tommy PS That "telegram" never showed up after the so-called end of the Cold War, did it? Which supports my contention that the Ruskies contrived that Friday, September 27 (and the Saturday, September 28) meeting with Oswald in order to portray him as one crazy and violence-prone dude, someone, in fact, capable of ... (gasp) ... killing a U.S. president. And which I suppose you would say that it somehow proves that the evil, evil, evil CIA killed JFK, no?

Ron, With all due respect, I no longer read Morley, having read his (IMHO) intellectually dishonest and highly-biased-against-Angleton book, The Ghost. For what it's worth, I concur with Robarge's review of the book. http://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2017/10/angletonbio.html Why don't you read Bagley's Spy Wars and Ghosts of the Spy Wars and then read The Ghost to see what I'm talking about? https://archive.org/details/SpyWarsMolesMysteriesAndDeadlyGames -- Tommy PS Here's an edited short critique of The Ghost I posted on Amazon a few months ago: "This book is reasonably well written as far as the prose is concerned, but to anyone who has read (former CIA Soviet Russia Division counterintelligence officer) Tennent H. Bagley's "Spy Wars," Jefferson Morley comes across as being unreasonably biased against Angleton, as exemplified by the way he selectively presents facts surrounding the incredible challenges Angleton was up against trying to counter the Soviets' intelligence services during the Cold War.Here's one small example: True KGB defector Pyotr Deriabin interviewed controversial defector Yuri Nosenko twelve times after Nosenko defected to the U.S. in January,1964, and came to the unshakable-for-him conclusion that Nosenko was 'fake.' Yet in Morley's book, Deriabin is mentioned only one time, and then not to criticize Nosenko or to ... (gasp) ... support Angleton or to ... (gasp) ... support Angleton's and Bagley's favorite defector, (pre-1965) Anatoly Golitsyn, but to point out on page 107 that Golitsyn had had, in so many words, 'a reputation back in the KGB to exaggerate and brag a lot.' One wonders how much time Morley had to spend to find that ostensible anti-Golitsyn quote by Deriabin, and how Morley could, in good conscience, not mention that Deriabin was a Golitsyn and Angleton supporter, not a Golitsyn and Angleton detractor, as Mr. Morley would apparently like for us to infer from his book.Like I said, just one small example. The book is full of them."

Ron, With all due respect, have you read Bagley's book "Spy Wars," or even his 35-page PDF, "Ghosts of the Spy Wars"? If not, why not? Afraid it will shatter your "world view"? Convinced even before reading it that it must be disinformation from the CIA? But wait ... didn't the evil, evil, evil CIA eventually "exonerate" Nosenko? LOL -- Tommy

David, It's Piedra or PIEDRA, not Pierda -- Tommy

Sandy, What fields ARE there, Sandy? I mean, I mean, I mean ... other than the "P R" field? (I'm too lazy and two disinterested to look it up.) -- Tommy PS. So you fervently believe that the evil, evil, evil CIA chose two boys AND their mothers ... (Aww, never mind.)

Sandy, With all due respect, IS there a "sealant required field," or for that matter a "sealant-anything field"? If a Navy or Marine Corps patient in the late 1950s required that a sealant be applied to his teeth, or if a previous application of sealant had not done the job it was intended to do, in which field would you expect the dentist or dental technician to make notations about same? In the "sealant field"? What "sealant field," Sandy? I mean, I mean, I mean .... am I missing something here? -- Tommy PS Which is much more likely to fail, Sandy, a dental prosthesis, or a dental sealant? Does a dental prosthesis EVER fail?

Kirk, No, he's not nearly as "cute" as you. -- Tommy PS Regarding all those curious people out there, all they have to do for starters is read Tennent H. Bagley's 35-page PDF, "Ghosts of the Spy Wars" (2015). https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362 And if it pekes their interest, they can read his book, "Spy Wars" (2007)

Kirk, Too bad you didn't post a photo of Putin's Rasputin -- Alexander Dugin. -- Tommy

Pamela, Finally, a voice of reason! -- Tommy

David, With all due respect, what point was that? You know, that you "made". That some people on this forum might have a hard time differentiating between Soviet/Russian "KGB" "active measures counterintelligence" ops (artfully interwoven with Soviet/Russian "KGB" "strategic deception" ops since 1958) and what "the evil, evil, evil CIA" has allegedly "done to us," as evidenced by the 1963 assassination of JFK (by Khrushchev or Castro) and the much more recent installation of a blackmail-able, expendable, "useful idiot" United States President by KGB-boy Vladimir Putin and Julian Assange? Is that the point you're missing, DaviD? with a capital d -- Tommy

Excellent post Greg. Thanks for sharing it with us, Tracy. -- Tommy