Thomas Graves

Anyone ever notice the two strange marks on the left leg knee area of the cop between "Frenchy" and Tall Boy? Also, who's the cop on the far right with his back to the camera? Is he one of the cops "captured" talking to another cop in the background of one of the other "Tramps" photos? The cars in the background also fascinate me. Wish I knew exactly when these photos were taken. --Tommy

Stupid question: Has the lead cop in this photo ever been positively identified? The fact that he has something suspicious-looking in his right ear, that he's escorting/guarding the three suspects in such a cavaier manner, that he's carrying his shotgun in such an unprofessional way, and that he has only one pen in his blouse ("professional" cops and security guards always have at least two pens in their shirt pocket in case one malfunctions) leads me to believe that this guy isn't a policeman at all, or if he is, he's having a really bad day. And I agree with Malcolm that the cop bringing up the rear does resemble Roscoe White.... --Tommy

Anyone recognize the two policemen talking in the background? Anyone know exactly what time these photos were taken? Thanks, --Tommy

FWIW, the lead cop who appears to have two id bars/badges above his right pocket also has three pens in his left blouse pocket, whereas the lead cop in the other photos has one id bar/badge and only one pen. --Tommy

I wonder why he's lagging so far behind. To get a message or a handoff from the "Lansdale" character? --Tommy

Semerian Triune? --Tommy

Larry, I gotta ask: In your considered opinion, is it possible LHO was providing (or thought he was providing) the 112th with info about the "gun-prospecting" activities of anti-Castro Cubans in Dallas? (Or to anyone else, for that matter?) Thanks, --Tommy

Ian, You seem to think that David Atlee Phillips wanted Veciana to see LHO with him (Phillips). I wonder if someone else could have wanted Veciana to see Oswald with Phillips. Or maybe Phillips just wanted Veciana to see Lee and was just a little careless. Or maybe he was just really, really careless... --Tommy

John, Sorry to sound "dense", but what exactly was the "new agenda" that Oswald wanted to bring to the Minutemen's "table"? Thanks, --Tommy

Nixon would be an odd choice too. Everybody knows he couldn't shoot straight. I've always suspected that Nixon was in Dallas to show moral support for the assassins, i.e. we're all behind you, go get him. Rabin, if the Israelis had any role at all, could have been there for the same reason. I think it's called cover. There was nothing super-secret about the presence of the Rabins in the U.S. He was on a tour of U.S. military bases, just happening to wind it up in you-know-where for whatever reason, I don't think Rabin or the Israelis were involved, but I also hate coincidences. Having researched both JFK and 9/11, I'm sick of coincidences. Ronnie, I doubt that professional assassins/hitmen would need "moral support". --Tommy

So okay, does anyone here think General Edwin Anderson Walker might have had anything to do with the manipulating of Lee Harvey Oswald into being the "just a patsy" figure that Oswald himself told reporters that he was? If so, how? Thank you,, --Tommy

John, I'm too lazy to "research" it right now, but I'm wondering if Richard Cain was at Anzio, etc? A known Spanish-speaking, Chicago-based, Mafioso/LE Officer and bugging expert who spent a lot of time in Mexico, Cain was very likely working for the FBN/CIA (i.e. Angleton/Bill Harvey)-liased Mexican Intel in M.C. when "Oswald" was there. --Tommy Edit: Well I was wrong about the Anzio bit, but Cain, in my mind, definitely remains a "person of interest".. http://webcache.goog...n&ct=clnk&gl=us So, whaddayall say we get back to the true subject of this thread: General Edwin Walker? LOL

The first round was (obviously) already chambered before the firing began. Therefore: Time elapsed for the firing of 1st round: 0.00 seconds. 2.3 seconds was required to eject the 1st round's casing and to chamber the 2nd round, and to fire it. Total elapsed time so far is only 2.3 seconds. Another 2.3 seconds was required to eject the second round's casing and to chamber the 3rd round and to fire it. Total elapsed time required to fire all three rounds: 4.6 seconds. The "problem" is the apparent "grouped" timing of the 2nd and 3rd shots and the extra time needed for the re-acquisition of the target between shots 1 and 2, and then again between shots 2 and 3..... --Tommy

John, I'm too lazy to "research" it right now, but I'm wondering if Richard Cain was at Anzio, etc? A known Spanish-speaking, Chicago-based, Mafioso/LE Officer and bugging expert who spent a lot of time in Mexico, Cain was very likely working for the FBN/CIA (i.e. Angleton/Bill Harvey)-liased Mexican Intel in M.C. when "Oswald" was there. --Tommy Edit: Well I was wrong about the Anzio bit, but Cain, in my mind, definitely remains a "person of interest".. http://webcache.goog...n&ct=clnk&gl=us

John,this site seems to have something relating to Major General Edwin Walker and Anzio. During World War II, Walker commanded a subunit of the Canadian-American First Special Service Force in the invasion of Anzio, Italy in January 1944. In August 1944, Walker succeeded Robert T. Frederick as the unit's commanding officer. Source: http://www.enotes.co...ic/Edwin_Walker Hmmm, it would be good to lay this baby to rest if only to move on. The things that were happening during the time of the landing at Anzio led in a strange way (message/code mix-up supposedly) to it's failure. The people whose interests were served by its failure were not only the Germans in having more time eliminating left wing northern partisans but also of course non German anti-Communists. Like J. J. Angleton* for example and factions in the Cairo Bureau (which perhaps tenuously has something to do with the Raten-Lines to the Middle East after the war, and perhaps less tenuously to the tradeoff of Greece by Stalin (which probably has something to do with what's going on in Greece today)). Whatever ones take on events, here is an opportunity to look at an early Walker who appears in a somewhat mysterious milieu. Is it possible to get detailed service records from this time? Indeed, was he .. wait for it... OSS ? PS I think it has been established I'm nuts so I reserve the right to ask nutty questions. edit add * who shielded the Black Prince after Italy was liberated. Also Gladio and the Strategy of Tension, imo, is relevant here.(emphasis added by T. Graves) John, Working from memory here I believe Douglas Valentine in The Strength of the Wolf has the young OSS officer James Jesus Angleton protecting some big time Sicilian and Sicilian-American narcotics-running mafiosi during WW II in exchange for their Operation Gladio-benefiting Intel. A mobbed-up Angleton (working in concert with a mobbed-up J. Edgar Hoover) fascinates me because it would explain why Angleton wanted to get rid of Kennedy-- J.J. knew that JFK was getting ready to pull out of the French Connection's heroin-production region of S.E. Asia and because his RFK had been coming down hard on Angleton's mafia buddies in the U.S. As John Newman says in "Oswald and the CIA", Angleton was the only person capable of 1) planning the assassination, 2) managing the assassination, and 3) orchestrating the cover up. Sincerely, --Tommy

1) What aliases/warnames did he use? 2) Was he involved in the smuggling of drugs? 3) Where was he on 11/22/63? --Tommy

Tommy, I understand those possibilities [about why Oswald remained in the building]. However, what kind of activity could he have been monitoring inside the TSBD during the assassination? What activity would have been going on, when everyone (except apparently Oswald) was watching the motorcade? If he was waiting for a phone call, wouldn't he have objected to it coming during the motorcade, when he could have been watching a public figure he greatly admired? And we have that delay to consider again- if the phone call was to be timed to keep Oswald out of sight while shots were being fired, he had to have been waiting 10-15 minutes for it. Wouldn't he have grown impatient? Pehaps maybe even decided to catch a glmpse of Kennedy? Tommy and Don, there are more possibilities than those two. Here's a third possibility - Oswald was involved in the assassination, not as a shooter, but as a periperal participant. For example, Gerry Patrick Hemming once said that Oswald brought his rifle to the TSBD that day because Hemming promised to buy it. Oswald, therefore, would have no firm idea that he was being the patsy until much later. If Oswald brought his rifle to Gerry Hemming to the TSBD to sell it to him, not knowing it would soon be used to frame him, then we seem to have this choice: (1) Oswald was aware that an assassination would be attempted by others at the TSBD building; (2) Oswald was unaware that an assassination would be attempted at the TSBD building; or (3) Oswald was unaware that any assassination would be attempted anywhere. I believe (2) is the correct choice, for these reasons: (~1) Oswald would never have brought his rifle to the TSBD if he suspected an assassination from the TSBD building; and (~3) Oswald finally found out exactly who he was dealing with in New Orleans as he was currently being blackmailed for having shot at General Edwin Walker, so he knew that an assassination would be attempted in Dallas - most likely at the Trade Mart. So, Oswald knew who the plotters were, yet he refused to take this information to the police. My theory maintains that Oswald was an accessory to the JFK assassination (while avoiding all the contradictions of the Lone-gunman theory). THEREFORE: Oswald could have been an informer for the FBI, but he was too unreliable. He was also a prospect for the ONI and the CIA, but again, he was too much of a loose cannon -- too undisciplined. So, he might have done odd jobs for them, contracting here and there. But the money was too little for Oswald, and he wanted something bigger. Therefore, Oswald also dealt with the underground, i.e. with criminals. He could get money for gun-running, for example. (Oswald did not hang out with Communists, but he did hang out with Russian Exiles, Cuban Exiles, ex-Marines and other rightist types, as well as gun-runners. It should be crystal clear to everybody that Oswald was a fake FPCC advocate, though a pretty good fake.) Best regards, --Paul Trejo <edit typos> Paul, I think LHO was inside the TSBD at that time simply because he'd been duped into thinking he was monitoring (or helping to set up a "sting" operation on) certain gun running activities taking place there that day. Evidence suggests that the TSBD was a hotbed of gun running/explosives transhipment activity, which, in my mind, was probably to the CRC/Alpha 66-type anti-Castro Cubans. Ideally situated by the railway yard, big wooden crates, owners, supervisors and employees with "interesting" backgrounds, etc. (We cannot rule out the possibility of Mafia/CIA/Jack Ruby/Joe Civello-connected drug smuggling activity's taking place there.) Maybe I'm naive, but I think something was ostensibly "going down" for the express purpose of making LHO "go along with the program" and incriminate himself in the assassination. The timing would have been perfect for a real gun running deal to go down there in that everyone's attention would have been focused on JFK and Jackie. Let's not forget that the "tramps" were found in a boxcar that also had a significant amount of explosives in it. Maybe the "tramps" themselves thought that they were participating in "some criminal activity other than the assassination that day. Or maybe they were there to make LHO think there was a gun/explosives deal going down that day, which LHO was either participating in, or more likely, monitoring as an undercover agent for the predecessor of ATF (or for Customs or Military Intel or FBI). --Tommy edited and bumped bump and P.S.: Ruby had been a Federal Bureau of Narcotics informant as far back as 1947, and we all know he was into gun running, too. Hmmm....

Tommy, I understand those possibilities [about why Oswald remained in the building]. However, what kind of activity could he have been monitoring inside the TSBD during the assassination? What activity would have been going on, when everyone (except apparently Oswald) was watching the motorcade? If he was waiting for a phone call, wouldn't he have objected to it coming during the motorcade, when he could have been watching a public figure he greatly admired? And we have that delay to consider again- if the phone call was to be timed to keep Oswald out of sight while shots were being fired, he had to have been waiting 10-15 minutes for it. Wouldn't he have grown impatient? Pehaps maybe even decided to catch a glmpse of Kennedy? Tommy and Don, there are more possibilities than those two. Here's a third possibility - Oswald was involved in the assassination, not as a shooter, but as a periperal participant. For example, Gerry Patrick Hemming once said that Oswald brought his rifle to the TSBD that day because Hemming promised to buy it. Oswald, therefore, would have no firm idea that he was being the patsy until much later. If Oswald brought his rifle to Gerry Hemming to the TSBD to sell it to him, not knowing it would soon be used to frame him, then we seem to have this choice: (1) Oswald was aware that an assassination would be attempted by others at the TSBD building; (2) Oswald was unaware that an assassination would be attempted at the TSBD building; or (3) Oswald was unaware that any assassination would be attempted anywhere. I believe (2) is the correct choice, for these reasons: (~1) Oswald would never have brought his rifle to the TSBD if he suspected an assassination from the TSBD building; and (~3) Oswald finally found out exactly who he was dealing with in New Orleans as he was currently being blackmailed for having shot at General Edwin Walker, so he knew that an assassination would be attempted in Dallas - most likely at the Trade Mart. So, Oswald knew who the plotters were, yet he refused to take this information to the police. My theory maintains that Oswald was an accessory to the JFK assassination (while avoiding all the contradictions of the Lone-gunman theory). THEREFORE: Oswald could have been an informer for the FBI, but he was too unreliable. He was also a prospect for the ONI and the CIA, but again, he was too much of a loose cannon -- too undisciplined. So, he might have done odd jobs for them, contracting here and there. But the money was too little for Oswald, and he wanted something bigger. Therefore, Oswald also dealt with the underground, i.e. with criminals. He could get money for gun-running, for example. (Oswald did not hang out with Communists, but he did hang out with Russian Exiles, Cuban Exiles, ex-Marines and other rightist types, as well as gun-runners. It should be crystal clear to everybody that Oswald was a fake FPCC advocate, though a pretty good fake.) Best regards, --Paul Trejo <edit typos> Paul, I think LHO was inside the TSBD at that time simply because he'd been duped into thinking he was monitoring (or helping to set up a "sting" operation on) certain gun running activities taking place there on that particular day. Evidence suggests that the TSBD was a hotbed of gun running/explosives transhipment activity, which, in my mind, was probably to the CRC/Alpha 66-type anti-Castro Cubans. Ideally situated by the railway yard, big wooden crates, owners, supervisors and employees with "interesting" backgrounds, etc. (We cannot rule out the possibility of Mafia/CIA/Jack Ruby/Joe Civello-connected drug smuggling activity's taking place there.) Maybe I'm naive, but I think something was ostensibly "going down" for the express purpose of making LHO "go along with the program" and incriminate himself in the assassination. The timing would have been perfect for a real gun running deal to go down there in that everyone's attention would have been focused on JFK and Jackie. Let's not forget that the "tramps" were found in a boxcar that also had a significant amount of explosives in it. Maybe the "tramps" themselves thought that they were participating in "some criminal activity other than the assassination that day. Or maybe they were there to make LHO think there was a gun/explosives deal going down that day, which LHO was either participating in, or more likely, monitoring as an undercover agent for the predecessor of ATF (or for Customs or Military Intel or FBI). --Tommy edited and bumped

Apparently this has become a thread about General Edwin Walker. Carry on guys. --Tommy

Tommy, I understand those possibilities [about why Oswald remained in the building]. However, what kind of activity could he have been monitoring inside the TSBD during the assassination? What activity would have been going on, when everyone (except apparently Oswald) was watching the motorcade? If he was waiting for a phone call, wouldn't he have objected to it coming during the motorcade, when he could have been watching a public figure he greatly admired? And we have that delay to consider again- if the phone call was to be timed to keep Oswald out of sight while shots were being fired, he had to have been waiting 10-15 minutes for it. Wouldn't he have grown impatient? Pehaps maybe even decided to catch a glmpse of Kennedy? Tommy and Don, there are more possibilities than those two. Here's a third possibility - Oswald was involved in the assassination, not as a shooter, but as a periperal participant. For example, Gerry Patrick Hemming once said that Oswald brought his rifle to the TSBD that day because Hemming promised to buy it. Oswald, therefore, would have no firm idea that he was being the patsy until much later. If Oswald brought his rifle to Gerry Hemming to the TSBD to sell it to him, not knowing it would soon be used to frame him, then we seem to have this choice: (1) Oswald was aware that an assassination would be attempted by others at the TSBD building; (2) Oswald was unaware that an assassination would be attempted at the TSBD building; or (3) Oswald was unaware that any assassination would be attempted anywhere. I believe (2) is the correct choice, for these reasons: (~1) Oswald would never have brought his rifle to the TSBD if he suspected an assassination from the TSBD building; and (~3) Oswald finally found out exactly who he was dealing with in New Orleans as he was currently being blackmailed for having shot at General Edwin Walker, so he knew that an assassination would be attempted in Dallas - most likely at the Trade Mart. So, Oswald knew who the plotters were, yet he refused to take this information to the police. My theory maintains that Oswald was an accessory to the JFK assassination (while avoiding all the contradictions of the Lone-gunman theory). THEREFORE: Oswald could have been an informer for the FBI, but he was too unreliable. He was also a prospect for the ONI and the CIA, but again, he was too much of a loose cannon -- too undisciplined. So, he might have done odd jobs for them, contracting here and there. But the money was too little for Oswald, and he wanted something bigger. Therefore, Oswald also dealt with the underground, i.e. with criminals. He could get money for gun-running, for example. (Oswald did not hang out with Communists, but he did hang out with Russian Exiles, Cuban Exiles, ex-Marines and other rightist types, as well as gun-runners. It should be crystal clear to everybody that Oswald was a fake FPCC advocate, though a pretty good fake.) Best regards, --Paul Trejo <edit typos> Paul, I think LHO was duped into thinking he was monitoring gun running activities at the TSBD, and was inside said building during the motorcade's passing through Dealey Plaza in order to make and/or place a phone call in accordance with that "mission". Evidence suggests that the TSBD was a hotbed of gun running/explosives transhipment activity, which, in my mind, was probably to the CRC/Alpha 66-type anti-Castro Cubans. Ideally situated by the railway yard, big wooden crates, owners, supervisors and employees with "interesting" backgrounds, etc. (We cannot rule out the possibility of Mafia/CIA/Jack Ruby-connected drug smuggling activity's taking place there as well.) Maybe I'm naive, but maybe something was going down during the JFK's visit to Dallas, or at least LHO was led to think so. The timing would have been perfect for gun running to take place there at that time in that everyone's attention would have been focused away from the railway yards and towards the hoop-la surrounding JFK and Jackie, instead. Let's not forget that the "tramps" were found in a boxcar that also had a significant amount of explosives in it. Maybe the "tramps" themselves thought that they were participating in some criminal activity other than the assassination that day. Or maybe they were there to make LHO think there was a gun/explosives deal going down that day, which LHO was either participating in, or more likely, monitoring as an undercover agent for the predecessor of ATF (or for Customs or Military Intel or FBI) http://coverthistory.blogspot.com/2006/02/spiders-web-texas-school-book.html. --Tommy edited and bumped

Tommy, I understand those possibilities [about why Oswald remained in the building]. However, what kind of activity could he have been monitoring inside the TSBD during the assassination? What activity would have been going on, when everyone (except apparently Oswald) was watching the motorcade? If he was waiting for a phone call, wouldn't he have objected to it coming during the motorcade, when he could have been watching a public figure he greatly admired? And we have that delay to consider again- if the phone call was to be timed to keep Oswald out of sight while shots were being fired, he had to have been waiting 10-15 minutes for it. Wouldn't he have grown impatient? Pehaps maybe even decided to catch a glmpse of Kennedy? Tommy and Don, there are more possibilities than those two. Here's a third possibility - Oswald was involved in the assassination, not as a shooter, but as a periperal participant. For example, Gerry Patrick Hemming once said that Oswald brought his rifle to the TSBD that day because Hemming promised to buy it. Oswald, therefore, would have no firm idea that he was being the patsy until much later. If Oswald brought his rifle to Gerry Hemming to the TSBD to sell it to him, not knowing it would soon be used to frame him, then we seem to have this choice: (1) Oswald was aware that an assassination would be attempted by others at the TSBD building; (2) Oswald was unaware that an assassination would be attempted at the TSBD building; or (3) Oswald was unaware that any assassination would be attempted anywhere. I believe (2) is the correct choice, for these reasons: (~1) Oswald would never have brought his rifle to the TSBD if he suspected an assassination from the TSBD building; and (~3) Oswald finally found out exactly who he was dealing with in New Orleans as he was currently being blackmailed for having shot at General Edwin Walker, so he knew that an assassination would be attempted in Dallas - most likely at the Trade Mart. So, Oswald knew who the plotters were, yet he refused to take this information to the police. My theory maintains that Oswald was an accessory to the JFK assassination (while avoiding all the contradictions of the Lone-gunman theory). THEREFORE: Oswald could have been an informer for the FBI, but he was too unreliable. He was also a prospect for the ONI and the CIA, but again, he was too much of a loose cannon -- too undisciplined. So, he might have done odd jobs for them, contracting here and there. But the money was too little for Oswald, and he wanted something bigger. Therefore, Oswald also dealt with the underground, i.e. with criminals. He could get money for gun-running, for example. (Oswald did not hang out with Communists, but he did hang out with Russian Exiles, Cuban Exiles, ex-Marines and other rightist types, as well as gun-runners. It should be crystal clear to everybody that Oswald was a fake FPCC advocate, though a pretty good fake.) Best regards, --Paul Trejo <edit typos> Paul, I think LHO was duped into thinking he was monitoring gun running activities at the TSBD, and therefore was inside said building during the motorcade's passing through Dealey Plaza in order to make and/or place a phone call in accordance with that "mission". Evidence suggests that the TSBD was a hotbed of gun running/explosives transhipment activity, which, in my mind, was probably to the CRC/Alpha 66-type anti-Castro Cubans. Ideally situated by the railway yard, big wooden crates, owners, supervisors and employees with "interesting" backgrounds, etc. (We cannot rule out the possibility of Mafia/CIA/Jack Ruby-connected drug smuggling activity's taking place there as well.) Maybe I'm naive, but maybe something was going down during JFK's visit to Dallas, or at least LHO was led to think so. The timing would have been perfect for a real gun running deal to go down then and there in that everyone's attention would have been focused on JFK and Jackie. Let's not forget that the "tramps" were found in a boxcar that also had a significant amount of explosives in it. Maybe the "tramps" themselves thought that they were participating in some criminal activity other than the assassination that day. Or maybe they were there to make LHO think there was a gun/explosives deal going down that day, which LHO was either participating in, or more likely, monitoring as an undercover agent for the predecessor of ATF (or for Customs or Military Intel or FBI). --Tommy

Don, Two possibilities: 1) He was told to monitor some kind of activity inside the TSBD 2) He was waiting for a phone call --Tommy

David, Thanks for the timely response. Yes, TMWKTM is one of my favorite books on the assassination. In my previous post, I considered mentioning the Dodd Subcommittee, too. I'm curious to know why you put the word "investigating" in quotation marks, so I'll definitely reread that part. Thanks, --Tommy

Larry, Excelent post, Larry. Thank you. Points well-taken. One of my litte pet theories is that LHO was working (or thought he was working) at at the TSBD for the predessor (sp?) of the Alcohol Firearms & Tobacco agency/department/bureau (too lazy to look it up at the moment) to monitor the gun running activities going on there, and that he may have been tricked into taking his rifle to work at some point as a hypothetical participant in an undercover "sting" operation... --Thanks, --Tommy

For example, did he think he was working on a drug smuggling or a gun running case at the TSBD? Or something else? Any thoughts? --Tommy