Cliff Varnell

Okay. So Umbrella Man was Roy Hargraves and Dark Complected Man was Felipe Vidal Santiago (or Gordon Novel and George Joannides). What were they doing there? Signaling? To whom? The shooters? The shooters were watching Hargraves, Santiago and Kennedy at the same time? If they were signaling to a spotter standing next to a shooter -- what could they possibly signal that the spotter couldn't see thru binoculars? So after the murder of a US President two of the conspirators casually took a seat on the curb where they could be photographed. Wouldn't the perps want to get away from the scene of the crime ASAP without drawing attention? As odd as Witt's Chamberlain-umbrella-shaming story seems, the above scenario is pure bonkers. BTW, Umbrella Man and Louis Witt had prominent noses, Hargraves did not.

Cory Santos

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Willis the only witness to describe Umbrella Man's actions in any detail? How is that not relevant to the speculation UM was Kill Team Member Roy Hargraves? So what was Hargraves doing with that umbrella? What function did he serve?

Good chance he lost track of the DP umbrella. So what? So he and Rosemary Willis were in on the plot. Penn Jones, too, since he was the one who tracked down the very shy Mr. Witt.

Not everyone. But then, they let me get away with murder in this joint.

Ron, I think it's a joke that the identity of Umbrella Man is still an issue. Levity? Oh no no no. Certainly not! What movie inspired Frank Sinatra to divorce Mia Farrow? What movie was filmed at the same location as John Lennon's murder? What movie was pedophile Roman Polanski's American debut?

So Willis and Witt were involved in the plot! Willis must have coordinated her HSCA testimony with Witt. Maybe -- just maybe -- the 10 year old Rosemary was the mastermind of the entire ambush. Explains why she was in the DP infield running alongside the limo -- she wanted to watch her handiwork close-up. I mean, if we're gonna indulge implied witness bashing -- may as well go all the way, right?

John Connally's analysis of the Zapruder film in the November 25, 1966 edition of LIFE Magazine -- "A Matter of Reasonable Doubt." Reasonable doubt? That was another Big Lie, of course. Gaeton Fonzi pushed Arlen Specter into a nervous breakdown confronting him with the clothing evidence late June of that year. After that there was no reasonable doubt as to the fact of conspiracy, but the forces of cover-up cleverly responded. That LIFE Magazine edition became the template for the JFKA Critical Community which persists to this day: micro-analyse the hell out of ancillary evidence and ignore the primary evidence of conspiracy.

Rosemary Willis corroborated Witt's account of his actions. Both "in" on the plot?

From the HSCA testimony of Louis Witt: <quote on, emphasis added> Mr. GENZMAN. What did you do when you saw the motorcade coming into the area? Mr. WITT. Well, as I recall, the motorcade had already made the turn and was coming down Elm Street going west on Elm before I became aware it was there, and it would have been from a straightline position off to my left about like this [indicating] when I saw it . Mr. GENZMAN. What did you do when you saw it approaching you? Mr. WITT. I think I got up and started fiddling with that umbrella trying to get it open, and at the same time I was walking forward, walking toward the street. /q> From the HSCA report -- "Possible Gunman on the Grassy Knoll" <quote on, emphasis added> Rosemary Willis...noticed two persons who looked "conspicuous." One was a man near the curb holding an umbrella, who appeared to be more concerned with opening or closing the umbrella than dropping to the ground like everyone else at the time of the shots. <quote off> Free Louis Witt!

MAGAt hypocrisy in action. Convicted Felon Donald Trump was civilly convicted of rape. He was friends with Jeffrey Epstein for years until Trump's scumbaggery was too much even for Epstein.

Traitor. You think Dave Chappelle sounds like a golf club type.

Convicted Felon Donald J. Trump is a traitor, MAGA cultist. Traitors aren't worthy of debate.

We're not having a debate. You support a treasonous Convicted Felon who performed fellatio on Vladimir in Helsinki.

It's a Dave Chappelle reference. You wouldn't get it, white bread.

You obviously didn't learn anything -- otherwise you wouldn't support a Convicted Felon Putin bootlicker. Mark-ass trick it is!

You don't know anything about punk rock, kid. It's hey-day was over when you were in short pants. Trick-ass mark, or mark-ass trick? The Convicted Felon is Donald Trump first.

Koch supports a Convicted Felon -- the one aligned with Vladimir Putin.

I've been winning debates with Pat Speer for 21 years. It's fun! Why would I want him silenced?

I didn't silence him. I protested his silencing.

https://www.politico.com/story/2010/03/johnson-meets-with-the-wise-men-march-25-1968-034945 Johnson meets with ‘The Wise Men,’ March 25, 1968 They met with LBJ after being briefed by officials at the State Department, the Pentagon and the CIA. They had been informed of a request from Gen. William Westmoreland, the top U.S. commander in Vietnam, for additional troops in the wake of perceived U.S. setbacks in the Tet Offensive. Present at the White House meeting were Dean Acheson, George Ball, McGeorge Bundy, Clark Clifford, Arthur Dean, Douglas Dillon, Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas, Averell Harriman, Henry Cabot Lodge Jr., Robert Murphy, Cyrus Vance and Gens. Omar Bradley, Matthew Ridgway and Maxwell Taylor. In the words of Acheson, who summed up the recommendations from 11 of the men, “we can no longer do the job we set out to do in the time we have left, and we must begin to take steps to disengage.” Murphy, Taylor and Fortas dissented. </q> Within days Johnson dropped out of the Prez race and appointed Averell Harriman to negotiate a peace deal. Averell Harriman -- the guy who carries the most individual responsibility for the Vietnam War.

Only in an effort to shield said member from accusations of lying.

Pat insists medical evidence with multiple violations of autopsy protocol are superior to medical evidence prepared according to autopsy protocol. The autopsy evidence prepared according to proper protocol is consistent with the physical evidence (clothing holes) and the contemporaneous written notes of a half dozen witnesses in position of authority. Improperly prepared medical evidence ain't.

There is a thread about McClelland, a thread about Jenkins, and I could start a thread about the Speer smear of SSA Glen Bennett. I have such confidence in my argument I don't have to indulge ad hominem. Pat has insisted the top of JFK's back was 4 inches below his clothing collars. Confirmation bias is a bitch, ain't it?