Cliff Varnell

Traitor. You think Dave Chappelle sounds like a golf club type.

Convicted Felon Donald J. Trump is a traitor, MAGA cultist. Traitors aren't worthy of debate.

We're not having a debate. You support a treasonous Convicted Felon who performed fellatio on Vladimir in Helsinki.

It's a Dave Chappelle reference. You wouldn't get it, white bread.

You obviously didn't learn anything -- otherwise you wouldn't support a Convicted Felon Putin bootlicker. Mark-ass trick it is!

You don't know anything about punk rock, kid. It's hey-day was over when you were in short pants. Trick-ass mark, or mark-ass trick? The Convicted Felon is Donald Trump first.

Koch supports a Convicted Felon -- the one aligned with Vladimir Putin.

I've been winning debates with Pat Speer for 21 years. It's fun! Why would I want him silenced?

I didn't silence him. I protested his silencing.

https://www.politico.com/story/2010/03/johnson-meets-with-the-wise-men-march-25-1968-034945 Johnson meets with ‘The Wise Men,’ March 25, 1968 They met with LBJ after being briefed by officials at the State Department, the Pentagon and the CIA. They had been informed of a request from Gen. William Westmoreland, the top U.S. commander in Vietnam, for additional troops in the wake of perceived U.S. setbacks in the Tet Offensive. Present at the White House meeting were Dean Acheson, George Ball, McGeorge Bundy, Clark Clifford, Arthur Dean, Douglas Dillon, Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas, Averell Harriman, Henry Cabot Lodge Jr., Robert Murphy, Cyrus Vance and Gens. Omar Bradley, Matthew Ridgway and Maxwell Taylor. In the words of Acheson, who summed up the recommendations from 11 of the men, “we can no longer do the job we set out to do in the time we have left, and we must begin to take steps to disengage.” Murphy, Taylor and Fortas dissented. </q> Within days Johnson dropped out of the Prez race and appointed Averell Harriman to negotiate a peace deal. Averell Harriman -- the guy who carries the most individual responsibility for the Vietnam War.

Only in an effort to shield said member from accusations of lying.

Pat insists medical evidence with multiple violations of autopsy protocol are superior to medical evidence prepared according to autopsy protocol. The autopsy evidence prepared according to proper protocol is consistent with the physical evidence (clothing holes) and the contemporaneous written notes of a half dozen witnesses in position of authority. Improperly prepared medical evidence ain't.

There is a thread about McClelland, a thread about Jenkins, and I could start a thread about the Speer smear of SSA Glen Bennett. I have such confidence in my argument I don't have to indulge ad hominem. Pat has insisted the top of JFK's back was 4 inches below his clothing collars. Confirmation bias is a bitch, ain't it?

Free the Ed Forum 3!

If you're going the "sticky disclaimer" route you'd have to call out every Lone Niutter who posts here. Why not call out Pat's false claims on a case by case basis, and steer clear of the heated rhetoric?

Matt, is that Harriman's Administration, or Eisenhower's?

Pat believes what he says is true. That's how advanced his confirmation bias is. He is incapable of processing obvious fact (e.g. the top of the back isn't four inches below the bottom of the collar) Because he believes it to be true doesn't make him a liar, makes him intellectually dishonest on account of advanced confirmation bias. There you go! Good idea. Long ago I advised Pat to preface his analyses with "IF the aupopsy report on the back wound was true, then--" Instead he insists inferior evidence is true. Poor guy. I think its wrong to accuse the delusional of lying. I've taken more grief battling Pat's BS than you can imagine. A couple guys at ROKC wanted to kick my head in. DiEugenio said "everybody is sick of it" -- referring to my consistent destruction of Pat's arguments. Ridicule is more effective, Sandy.

I posted this on Jacks a couple days ago... I'm a founding member of the Pat Speer Not A Fan Club (established 2003). I agree with a lot of Sandy's and Keven's critiques of Pat's tendencies to misrepresent witness testimony. But their ad hominem detracts from that critique. "Penalize" Speer for "lying"? I've been around and around with Speer more than anyone. He suffers from a severe case of confirmation bias. I think good-natured condescension laden with on-beat zingers is the best approach. (see Wilson, Alex) I have little regard for the head wound(s) discussion. Whether he was shot in the head once, twice, or thrice will never be known. Questions: What did Lee Harvey Oswald have to do with the actual killing of JFK? Nothing. What did CE399 have to do with the murder of JFK? Nothing. How many times did JFK get shot in the head? Unknowable. Why the [f-bomb] do those 3 subjects suck all the air out of the JFKA Critical Community?

Not officially. Bet he moved plenty of dope thru Zapata Off-Shore, tho.

So Moynihan helped take down the Corsican Mafia? What was his role? I suspect the downfall of the French Connection in the early 70's was engineered by traffickers out of the Golden Triangle, a cabal headed by Averell Harriman. When the Golden Triangle got squeezed by Communist takeover of SE Asia -- Hello Afghanistan!

The JFKA may be the only cold case murder in history where the physical evidence is relentlessly ignored (e.g. Speer, Pat) or openly despised (e.g. DiEugenio, James).

Thanks for your reply, Matt. This is a more involved project than I'm able to pursue right now. Good luck in your research. I suggest you clean up the above, however.

Matt, I propose we skip the Moynihan-as-Deep-Throat ID and cut to the chase. What information did Moynihan provide to reporters with the Washington Post/New York Times prior to Nixon's resignation, and how did you ascertain his involvement?

You guys? I said I have an open mind given Moynihan's connection to Harriman and Harriman's motivation for revenge. That's it. I'm not endorsing a theory unrevealed. The fact is Deep Throat wasn't the only source for the Washington Post or New York Times reporters who covered the story. James McCord supplied lots of info. Maybe Moynihan as well -- let's see what Matt comes up with.