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Cliff Varnell

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    The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

    in Political Discussions

    Posted · Edited by Cliff Varnell

    26 minutes ago, Robert Wheeler said:

    I have you on ignore Cliff.

    Can you stop stalking me. It's weird.

    No need to reply, I won't see it.

    thx

    I find Robert Wheeler’s fascism-apologia beyond bizarre.  Stalking him?  What a snowflake!

    I’m OG Antifa.  Fighting fascism is what we’ve done for decades, no matter where it rears its ugly head.

    The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

    in Political Discussions

    Posted

    8 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

    Yup.

    Your post back then was incredibly right on predictive with the Trump today and the last  3 and 2/3rd's years of his obsessive conflict creating rule.

    Thank you, Joe.  Even though he mocked my “luridly dystopian vision”, Paul Rigby got off the best prediction — 

    “Christian Gauleiters, festooned in neo-Nazi regalia...bestride by torch light a land beset by famine and pestilence"

    The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

    in Political Discussions

    Posted

    30 minutes ago, Robert Wheeler said:

    Trump improved over Romney by roughly 4% to 12%, among blacks, men and women. It’s probably why Trump won PA.

    If Trump gets close to 20% the Dems are finished for a long time. It’s a function of Blacks being a solid 90% block for Democrats Traditionally. 

    https://thehayride.com/2020/06/rasmussen-trump-approval-rating-among-black-voters-hits-all-time-high/

    92 Percent of Black Americans Support Biden Over Trump, Poll Says
    https://www.newsweek.com/92-percent-black-americans-support-biden-over-trump-poll-says-1513367

    A new proposal re the JFK shots and wounds

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    16 hours ago, Rick McTague said:

    Greg,

    You mentioned this in your original post: "-- In this reconstruction, JFK's raising of his arms and elbows and appearing to be reaching both hands to his throat, of Zapruder, becomes a reaction not to the bullet of the rear occipital entrance and exiting through his throat--that shot has not happened yet--but rather is a reaction to the shot that hit JFK in the upper back."

    I cannot see anyone reacting to being shot in the back with both hands coming up to hold his throat.  I could see his dominant hand reaching over his shoulder trying to get to his back like anyone would. 

    Of course!  People reflexively reach for the area struck, and reflexively defend against getting hit again.  JFK held his fists in front of his throat to prevent another strike.

    The timing of the back shot can be established by Secret Service SA Glenn Bennett's well corroborated account.

    From Bennett's statement 11/23/63:

    <quote on>

    About thirty minutes after leaving Love Field about 12:25 P.M., the Motorcade entered an intersection and then proceeded down a grade. At this point the well-wishers numbered but a few; the motorcade continued down this grade enroute to the Trade Mart. At this point I heard what sounded like a fire-cracker. I immediately looked from the right/crowd/physical area/and looked towards the President who was seated in the right rear seat of his limousine open convertible. At the moment I looked at the back of the President I heard another fire-cracker noise and saw the shot hit the President about four inches down from the right shoulder. A second shot followed immediately and hit the right rear high of the President's head. I immediately hollered "he's hit" and reached for the AR-15 located on the floor of the rear seat. Special Agent Hickey had already picked-up the AR-15. We peered towards the rear and particularly the right side of the area. I had drawn my revolver when I saw S/A Hickey had the AR15. I was unable to see anything or one that could have fired the shots. The President's car immediately kicked into high gear and the follow-up car followed.

    <quote off>

    Willis 5 at Z202 shows Bennett facing to the right.  Altgens 6 at Z255 shows Bennett with blurred features, consistent with his head turning to the front.  The bullet holes in the clothes are 4 inches below the bottom of the collars.

    We can safely place the back shot between Z255 and the head shot/s.

     

     

    A new proposal re the JFK shots and wounds

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    8 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

    The first impressions of the doctors and nurses at Parkland were the least likely to be tainted. What were they? I’m sure others can answer that question. What I can say from memory is that I recall hearing very early on that JFK was shot in the throat. Perhaps this comes from hearing Mark Lane speak in 1964 (I was 16) at public events. I remain convinced the throat wound was one of entry. 

    Of course!  This should have been settled decades ago.

     

    A new proposal re the JFK shots and wounds

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

    While I am no ballistics or medical expert, each of the three above are, and on the basis of this expertise an exit for the JFK throat wound appears reasonable (i.e. no basis for exclusion) as well as entrance being reasonable. Neither is excluded. If neither is excluded, the answer to whether that wound was entrance or exit can only then be determined on other grounds, not from the observation reports. Agree? Disagree?

    Isn’t it amazing how inconvenient evidence like the C7/T1 air pocket just disappears — “no basis for exclusion”?

    Hey, if it takes the Parkland doctors shoving a trach tube all the way thru JFK’s neck to keep a Pet Theory alive, so be it.

    A new proposal re the JFK shots and wounds

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted · Edited by Cliff Varnell

    3 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:


    2. Yes because it must be because an entrance is excluded by lack of corresponding exit or bullet within the neck (from x-rays).

    This is an egregious mis-statement of fact.

    The bullets that created the back and throat wounds could have been removed prior to the autopsy, or the autopsists were correct in their speculation that JFK was hit with high tech rounds which dissolved.

    From autopsy-attendee FBI SA Francis O'Neill's sworn affidavit for the HSCA:

    <quote on>

    Some discussion did occur concerning the disintegration of the bullet. A general feeling existed that a soft-nosed bullet struck JFK. There was discussion concerning the back wound that the bullet could have been a "plastic" type or an "Ice" [sic] bullet, one which dissolves after contact.<quote off>

    From autopsy-attendee FBI SA James Sibert's sworn affidavit for the HSCA:

    <quote on>

    The doctors also discussed a possible deflection of the bullet in the body caused by striking bone. Consideration was also given to a type of bullet which fragments completely.... Following discussion among the doctors relating to the back injury, I left the autopsy room to call the FBI Laboratory and spoke with Agent Chuch [sic] Killion. I asked if he could furnish any information regarding a type of bullet that would almost completely fragmentize (sic).<quote off>

    Pet theorists, who can’t bother with any data which doesn’t fit their pet theories, routinely deny or ignore the existence of such weapons even though the CIA confirmed their development.

    http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_1_Colby.pdf

    <pg 17 quote on >

    Mr. CHAIRMAN: Is it not true, too, that the effort not only involved not only designing a gun that could strike at a human target without knowledge of the person who had been struck, but the toxin itself would not appear in the autopsy?

    Mr. WILLIAM COLBY (CIA Director):  Well, there was an attempt—

    Mr. CHAIRMAN: Or the dart.

    Mr. COLBY: Yes; so there was no way of perceiving that the target was hit.

    Mr. CHAIRMAN: As a murder instrument, that is about as efficient as you can get, is it not?

    Mr. COLBY: It is a weapon, a very serious weapon.

    <quote off>

    A new proposal re the JFK shots and wounds

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    7 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

     

    You are trolling Mr. Varnell. I come here in good faith, offer what I have to offer, attempt to discuss substance.

    If that were true you wouldn’t have made up that bit about “cervical brace.”

    Or when you edited out my argument and then implied my response lacked nuance?

    Or when you posit a scenario wherein the Parkland doctors inserted the trach tube thru his neck right above two transverse processes?

    Or when you cherry-pick testimony suborned by Arlen Specter?

    No, Greg, I don’t see a lot of good faith.  If James Gordon tells me not to refer to anyone as a Pet Theorist, I’ll rescind the characterization.

    7 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

    You are name-calling in an attempt to ridicule. This is unacceptable. Go away, or I will. I hope the moderator will take note. 

    From the page on this Forum titled "Terms of Forum Use":

    • No member is allowed to make personal insults with regard to another member OR with respect to fellow members opinions. 
    • No member is allowed to accuse a fellow member of lying
    • ...insulting and taunting fellow members

    From the page on this Forum titled "Membership Behavior":

    We warmly welcome members to this site and encourage debate and discussion

    A new proposal re the JFK shots and wounds

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    52 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

    Cliff V., the list you cite from Vince Palamara 2015 of Parkland doctors' and nurses' identifications of the throat wound is given as: 14 entrance, 0 exit, and 1 either.

    Wait a minute!  Not so fast, pal.  You’ve made a claim that the Parkland doctors created an air-pocket over-laying the right C7/T1 transverse processes at the back base of JFK’s neck.

    You are claiming that instead of inserting a tube into the trachea the Doctors instead shoved the tube all the way thru his neck.

    You’re making this up as you go along, aren’t you Pet Theorist?

    A new proposal re the JFK shots and wounds

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Greg Doudna said:

    C.V., 95% was a guess which included WC and HSCA as well as non-WC and non-HSCA, never mind, not important, doesn't matter. Could you explain as you see it how you are supposing a bullet entering the throat (or exiting if so, either way) would cause interstitial air anywhere inside the body? Are you supposing that air come from one of the lungs? But if so which bullet are you supposing punctured the lung?  

    A dissolved round would leave an air pocket.

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