Ed LeDoux

Thanks John. Looks like the hammer and nails missed a window!

Film of placard:

I have tracked down relatives of the folks who filmed the N.O. altercation

The family is almost all deceased.

I may need help tracing a Sharon Doyle Cosgrove in Spokane Washington

She was last on 153rd St(?) in Portland OR.

The back story:

I called and talked to Larry Doyle a relative of James Patrick Doyle (jim).

Larry said Jim his wife Charleen (Wilson) and son Jim Jr. have all passed away. The only survivor and the holder of the original pictures and film from the New Orleans incident between Cubans and Lee Oswald may be Sharon. The family were the ones who saw and captured the placard on their camera. They were with the Wilson's.

I believe this is very important to get the footage!!!!!!!

I will try to locate the Wilson's who were with the Doyle's family in NO and also watched the incident happen.

On another note, is there info on Victor Antonio Solez(?) of the 'Dallas Mexican Mafia'

Or James Arthur Jackson's sister Nancy Jackson who was a 'employee' of the Copa Room?

Thanks All and Happy New research Year,

Ed

Burger and fries guy aside, I can't believe no one has a suspicion about TUW (the umbrella woman) clearly an accomplice of TUM.

Ed

Marina showed the rifle to Jeanne De Mohrenschildt in the "closet" so which is it, did Lee bury it or was it in the closet, the closet where Lee kept it in the open...?

Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. And I believe from what I remember George sat down on the sofa and started talking to Lee, and Marina was showing me the house that is why I said it looks like it was the first time, because why would she show me the house if I had been there before? Then we went to another room, and she opens the closet, and I see the gun standing there. I said, what is the gun doing over there?

Mr. JENNER. You say---

Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. A rifle.

Mr. JENNER. A rifle, in the closet?

Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. In the closet, right in the beginning. It wasn't hidden or anything.

Mr. JENNER. Standing up on its butt?

Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

OR

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the first time that you observed the rifle?

Mrs. OSWALD. That was on Neely Street. I think that was in February.

Mr. RANKIN. How did you learn about it? Did you see it some place in the apartment?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, Lee had a small room where he spent a great deal of time, where he read---where he kept his things, and that is where the rifle was.

Mr. RANKIN. Was it out in the room at that time, as distinguished from in a closet in the room?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, it was open, out in the open. At first I think---I saw some package up on the top shelf, and I think that that was the rifle. But I didn't know. And apparently later he assembled it and had it in the room.

Mr. RANKIN. When you saw the rifle assembled in the room, did it have the scope on it?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, it did not have a scope on it.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you have any discussion with your husband about the rifle when you first saw it?

Mrs. OSWALD. Of course I asked him, "What do you need a rifle for? What do we need that for?"

He said that it would come in handy some time for hunting. And this was not too surprising because in Russia, too, we had a rifle.

Mr. RANKIN. In Russia did you have a rifle or a shotgun?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know the difference. One and the other shoots. You men. That is your business.

The CHAIRMAN. My wife wouldn't know the difference, so it is all right.

Mrs. OSWALD. I have never served in the Army.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you discuss what the rifle cost with your husband?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Was the rifle later placed in a closet in the apartment at Neely Street?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, it was always either in a corner, standing up in a corner or on a shelf.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know what happened to the gun that you had in Russia? Was it brought over to this country?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, he sold it there. I did not say so when I had the first interviews. You must understand this was my husband. I didn't want to say too much.

Mr. RANKIN. Is this rifle at Neely Street the only rifle that you know of that your husband had after you were married to him?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever show that rifle to the De Mohrenschildts?

Mrs. OSWALD. I know that De Mohrenschildts had said that the rifle had been shown to him, but I don't remember that.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall your husband taking the rifle away from the apartment on Neely Street at any time?

Mrs. OSWALD. You must know that the rifle it isn't as if it was out in the open. He would hang a coat or something to mask its presence in the room. And sometimes when he walked out, when he went out in the evening I didn't know, because I didn't go into that room very often. I don't know whether he took it with him or not.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever see him clean the rifle?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I said before I had never seen it before. But I think you understand. I want to help you, and that is why there is no reason for concealing anything. I will not be charged with anything.

Mr. GOPADZE. She says she was not sworn in before. But now inasmuch as she is sworn in, she is going to tell the truth.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you see him clean the rifle a number of times?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Could you help us by giving some estimate of the times as you remember it?

Mrs. OSWALD. About four times---about four or five times, I think.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband ever tell you why he was cleaning the--that is, that he had been using it and needed to be cleaned after use?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I did not ask him, because I thought it was quite normal that when you have a rifle you must clean it from time to time.

, and he would say bye-bye, I will be hack soon, and he maMr. RANKIN. Did you ever observe your husband taking the rifle away from the apartment on Neely Street?

Mrs. OSWALD. Now, I think that he probably did sometimes, but I never did see it. You must understand that sometimes I would be in the kitchen and he would be in his room downstairsand he would say bye-bye, I will be hack soon, and he may have have taken it. He probably did. Perhaps he purely waited for an occasion when he could take it away without my seeing it.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever observe that the rifle had been taken out of the apartment at Neely Street---that is, that it was gone?

Mrs. OSWALD. Before the incident with General Walker, I know that Lee was preparing for something. He took photographs of that house and he told me not to enter his room. I didn't know about these photographs, but when I came into the room once in general he tried to make it so that I would spend less time in that room. I noticed that quite accidentally one time when I was cleaning the room he tried to take care of it himself.

I asked him what kind of photographs are these, but he didn't say anything to me.

Mr. RANKIN. That is the photographs of the Walker house that you were asking about?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Later, after he had fired, he told me about it.

I didn't know that he intended to do it---that he was planning to do it.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you learn at any time that he had been practicing with the rifle?

Mrs. OSWALD. I think that he went once or twice. I didn't actually see him take the rifle, but I knew that he was practicing.

Mr. RANKIN. Could you give us a little help on how you knew?

Mrs. OSWALD. He told me. And he would mention that in passing---it isn't

as if he said, "Well, today I am going"---it wasn't as if he said, "Well, today I am going to take the rifle and go and practice."

But he would say, "Well, today I will take the rifle along for practice."

Therefore, I don't know whether he took it from the house or whether perhaps he even kept the rifle somewhere outside. There was a little square, sort of a little courtyard where he might have kept it.

When you asked me about the rifle, I said that Lee didn't have a rifle, but he also had a gun, a revolver.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall when he first had the pistol, that you remember?

Mrs. OSWALD. He had that on Neely Street, but I think that he acquired the rifle before he acquired the pistol. The pistol I saw twice once in his room, and the second time when I took these photographs.

Mr. RANKIN. What period of time was there between when he got the rifle and you learned of it, and the time that you first learned about the pistol?

Mrs. OSWALD. I can't say.

Mr. RANKIN. When you testified about his practicing with the rifle, are you describing a period when you were still at Neely Street?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know where he practiced with the rifle?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know where. I don't know the name of the place where this took place. But I think it was somewhere out of town. It seems to me a place called Lopfield.

Mr. RANKIN. Would that be at the airport---Love Field?

Mrs. OSWALD. Love Field.

Mr. RANKIN. So you think he was practicing out in the open and not at a rifle range?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall seeing the rifle when the telescopic lens was on it?

Mrs. OSWALD. I hadn't paid any attention initially.

I know a rifle was a rifle. I didn't know whether or not it had a telescope attached to it. But the first time I remember seeing it was in New Orleans, where I recognized the telescope. But probably the telescope was on before. I simply hadn't paid attention.

I hope you understand. When I saw it, I thought that all rifles have that.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you make any objection to having the rifle around?

Mrs. OSWALD. Of course.

Mr. RANKIN. What did he say to that?

Mrs. OSWALD. That for a man to have a rifle since I am a woman, I don't understand him, and I shouldn't bother him. A fine life.

Mr. RANKIN. Is that the same rifle that you are referring to that you took the picture of with your husband and when he had the pistol, too?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I asked him then why he had dressed himself up like that, with the rifle and the pistol, and I thought that he had gone crazy, and he said he wanted to send that to a newspaper. This was not my business--it was man's business.

If I had known these were such dangerous toys of course you understand that I thought that Lee had changed in that direction, and I didn't think it was a serious occupation with him, just playing around.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the day that you took the picture of him with the rifle and the pistol?

Mrs. OSWALD. I think that that was towards the end of February, possibly the beginning of March. I can't say exactly. Because I didn't attach any significance to it at the time. That was the only time I took any pictures.

I don't know how to take pictures. He gave me a camera and asked me someone should ask me how to photograph, I don't know.

Mr. RANKIN. Was it on a day off that you took the picture?

Mrs. OSWALD. It was on a Sunday.

Mr. RANKIN. How did it occur? Did he come to you and ask you to take the picture?

Mrs. OSWALD. I was hanging up diapers, and he came up to me with the rifle and l was even a little scared, and he gave me the camera and asked me to press a certain button.

Mr. RANKIN. And he was dressed up with a pistol at the same time, was he?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. You have examined that picture since, and noticed that the telescopic lens was on at the time the picture was taken, have you not?

Mrs. OSWALD. Now I paid attention to it. A specialist would see it immediately, of course. But at that time I did not pay any attention at all. I saw just Lee. These details are of great significance for everybody, but for me at that time it didn't mean anything. At the time' that I was questioned, I had even forgotten that I had taken two photographs. I thought there was only one. I thought that there were two identical pictures, but they turned out to be two different poses.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you have anything to do with the prints of the photograph after the prints were made? That is, did you put them in a photographic album yourself?

Mrs. OSWALD. Lee gave me one photograph and asked me to keep it for June somewhere. Of course June doesn't need photographs like that.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall how long after that the Walker matter occurred?

Mrs. OSWALD. Two, perhaps three weeks later. I don't know. You know better when this happened.

Mr. RANKIN. How did you first learn that your husband had shot at General Walker?

Mrs. OSWALD. That evening he went out, I thought that he had gone to his classes or perhaps that he just walked out or went out on his own business. It got to be about 10 or 10:30, he wasn't home yet, and I began to be worried. Perhaps even later.

Then I went into his room. Somehow, I was drawn into it--you know--I was pacing around. Then I saw a note there.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you look for the gun at that time?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I didn't understand anything. On the note it said, "If I am arrested" and there are certain other questions, such as, for example, the key to the mailbox is in such and such a place, and that he left me some money to last me for some time, and I couldn't understand at all what can he be arrested for. When he came back I asked him what had happened. He was very pale. I don't remember the exact time, but it was very late. And he told me not to ask him any questions. He only told me that he had shot at General Walker.

Of course I didn't sleep all night. I thought that any minute now, the police will come. Of course I wanted to ask him a great deal. But in his state I decided I had best leave him alone it would be purposeless to question him.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he say any more than that about the shooting?

Mrs. OSWALD. Of course in the morning I told him that I was worried, and that we can have a lot of trouble, and I asked him, "Where is the rifle? What did you do with it?"

He said, that he had left it somewhere, that he had buried it, it seems to me, somewhere far from that place, because he said dogs could find it by smell. I don't know---I am not a criminologist.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you why he had shot at General Walker?

Mrs. OSWALD. I told him that he had no right to kill people in peacetime, he had no right to take their life because not everybody has the same ideas as he has. People cannot be all alike. He said that this was a very bad man, that he was a fascist, that he was the leader of a fascist organization, and when I said that even though all of that night be true, just the same he had no right to take his life, he said if someone had killed Hitler in time it would have saved many lives. I told him that this is no method to prove your ideas, by means of a rifle.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask him how long he had been planning to do this?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He said he had been planning for two months. Yes--perhaps he had planned to do so even earlier, but according to his conduct I could tell he was planning--he had been planning this for two months or perhaps a little even earlier.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you like to take a little recess?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, thank you. Better to get it over with.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he show you a picture of the Walker house then?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. That was after the shooting?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He had a book---he had a notebook in which he noted down quite a few details. It was all in English, I didn't read it. But I noticed the photograph. Sometimes he would lock himself in his room and write in the book. I thought that he was writing some other kind of memoirs, as he had written about his life in the Soviet Union.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever read that book?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know of anything else he had in it besides this Walker house picture?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. Photographs and notes, and I think there was a map in there.

Mr. RANKIN. There was a map of the area where the Walker house was?

Mrs. OSWALD. It was a map of Dallas, but I don't know where Walker lived. Sometimes evenings he would be busy with this. Perhaps he was calculating something, but I don't know. He had a bus schedule and computed something.

After this had happened, people thought that he had a car, but he had been using a bus.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he explain to you about his being able to use a bus just as well as other people could use a car---something of that kind?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. Simply as a passenger. He told me that even before that time he had gone also to shoot, but he had returned. I don't know why.

Because on the day that he did fire, there was a church across the street and there were many people there, and it was easier to merge in the crowd and not be noticed.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask him about this note that he had left, what he meant by it?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes--he said he had in mind that if in case he were arrested, I would know what to do.

Mr. RANKIN. The note doesn't say anything about Walker, does it?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask him if that is what he meant by the note?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, because as soon as he came home I showed him the note and asked him "What is the meaning of this?"

Mr. RANKIN. And that is when he gave you the explanation about the Walker shooting?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

I know that on a Sunday he took the rifle, but I don't think he fired on a Sunday. Perhaps this was on Friday. So Sunday he left and took the rifle.

Mr. RANKIN. If the Walker shooting was on Wednesday, does that refresh your memory as to the day of the week at all?

Mrs. OSWALD. Refresh my memory as to what?

Mr. RANKIN. As to the day of the shooting?

Mrs. OSWALD. It was in the middle of the week.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he give any further explanation of what had happened that evening?

Mrs. OSWALD. When he fired, he did not know whether he had hit Walker or not. He didn't take the bus from there. He ran several kilometers and then took the bus. And he turned on the radio and listened, but there were no reports.

The next day he bought a paper and there he read it was only chance that saved Walker's life. If he had not moved, he might have been killed.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he comment on that at all?

Mrs. OSWALD. He said only that he had taken very good aim, that it was just chance that caused him to miss. He was very sorry that he had not hit him.

I asked him to give me his word that he would not repeat anything like that. I said that this chance shows that he must live and that he should not be shot at again. I told him that I would save the note and that if something like that

should be repeated again, I would go to the police and I would have the proof in the form of that note.

He said he would not repeat anything like that again.

By the way, several days after that, the De Mohrenschildts came to us, and as soon as he opened the door he said, "Lee, how is it possible that you missed?"

I looked at Lee. I thought that he had told De Mohrenschildt about it. And Lee looked at me, and he apparently thought that I had told De Mohrenschildt about it. It was kind of dark. But I noticed---it was in the evening, but I noticed that his face changed, that he almost became speechless.

You see, other people knew my husband better than I did. Not always--but in this case.

Mr. RANKIN. Was De Mohrenschildt a friend that he told---your husband told him personal things that you knew of?

Mrs. OSWALD. He asked Lee not because Lee had told him about it, but I think because he is smart enough man to have been able to guess it. I don't know---he is simply a liberal, simply a man. I don't think that he is being accused justly of being a Communist.

Mr. RANKIN. That is De Mohrenschildt that you refer to?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you tell the authorities anything about this Walker incident when you learned about it?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. You have told the Secret Service or the FBI people reasons why you didn't. Will you tell us?

Mrs. OSWALD. Why I did not tell about it?

First, because it was my husband. As far as I know, according to the local laws here, a wife cannot be a witness against her husband. But, of course, if I had known that Lee intended to repeat something like that, I would have told.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he ask you to return the note to him?

Mrs. OSWALD. He forgot about it. But apparently after that he thought that what he had written in his book might be proof against him, and he destroyed it.

Mr. RANKIN. That is this book that you have just referred to in which he had the Walker house picture?

Mrs. OSWALD. There was a notebook, yes, that is the one.

Mr. RANKIN. What did you do with the note that he had left for you after you talked about it and said you were going to keep it?

Mrs. OSWALD. I had it among my things in a cookbook. But I have two--I don't remember in which.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your relations with your husband change after this Walker incident?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Will you describe to us the changes as you observed them?

Mrs. OSWALD. Soon after that, Lee lost his job---I don't know for what reason. He was upset by it. And he looked for work for several days. And then I insisted that it would be better for him to go to New Orleans where he had relatives. I insisted on that because I wanted to get him further removed from Dallas and from Walker, because even though he gave me his word, I wanted to have him further away, because a rifle for him was not a very good toy---a toy that was too enticing.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you say that you wanted him to go to New Orleans because of the Walker incident?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. I simply told him that I wanted to see his home town. He had been born there.

Mr. RANKIN. When he promised you that he would not do anything like that again, did you then believe him?

Mrs. OSWALD. I did not quite believe him inasmuch as the rifle remained in the house.

Paul, I would take everything the "Russian's" said with a HUGE grain of salt.

As far as Marina speaking English, read the Neely Street thread where it has been demonstrated that she could understand and converse in English.

Ed

John,

Yes they are high, but the power company uses binoculars to read them from a distance.

As you can also see the power line and conduit comes in and down to them. They are the electric meters.

http://www.onthisveryspot.com/pics/spot_1684_760.jpg

The only thing visible from the front door/window would be the stairs going up.

ed

[quote name='Thomas Graves' date='20 December 2011 - 01:20 PM' timestamp='1324383645'

And the Abundant Life Temple was recently torn down in Oak Cliff.

--Tommy

What!! That was a huge building. Thanks for the info Tommy!

Linda Graham-Lee

Was in Dallas February for my Mother's funeral and revisited our old home on Jefferson across from Sunset Hi. Was so wonderful being back in Dallas/Oak Cliff. The Graham girls took a tour of our old home and it was a real treat. We also toured downtown Oak Cliff seeing the old Texas Theatre and my Dad, O. B. Graham's church at Tenth and Crawford (Abundant Life Temple) Enjoyed the above comments from others. You can take the girl/boy out of Oak Cliff but you can't take Oak Cliff out of the girl/boy.

Linda Graham Shaw-Lee

http://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2009/05/worth-a-thousand-words/

Ed

bummmmp

Your over simplified pie chart aside. (note how sparse the amount of people are on or near the knoll) A weighted chart describes a different scene than you erroneously portray.

Show me where Newman points to the Six Floor David.

Ed

Yeah, I guess that would be a cheaper option than changing locks in the door itself - though by his own admission - it wasn't a very successful one. Maybe it was the meter reader picking the lock?

Greg I wonder if the current owners SIDNEY & TANGEE MOON have been any more successful.

Looking at some of their platting and zoning requests and the remaining structures on the block it may not be long before 212/214 Neely are no more.

Historic Oak Cliff is down to a few buildings of any significance.

The Elsbeth apt building may be razed soon. Here is article by fellow researcher Joe Backes:

http://justiceforkennedy.blogspot.com/2011/07/605-elsbeth-apartment-may-be-demolished.html#comment-form

This also reminds me of the Coz-i-Eight apartments:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=48702&relPageId=7

Ed

Good eye Gerda!

Nice gif Robin, is it showing Clint Hill trotting along behind limo on Houston?

Ed

Thank You Robin!

I always am appreciative of your posts and additional information you provide.

Ed

Thanks Tom! Got it. Please hide their info and Ph #'s.

Greg, an idea I was kicking around was to padlock an apt would mean he never got the keys back. Or a previous tenant could have a duplicate key, padlock solves this.

John, I believe in the pics it shows the electric meters on the right side of the building,

the gas was in the back yard. (see "Wooden Staircase In Backyard)

http://jfklancer.com/photos/neelyst/

I'm guessing the boxes you pointed to are mail boxes near the front doors.

http://www.onthisveryspot.com/pics/spot_1684_760.jpg

Hmmm after looking over the Tom Jones photos I found a problem.

Is it really possible to see into the apartment?

I do not see how a meter reader could look inside the second floor apartment.

If the back door is the same solid door as in '63 then that is not a view point;

Would be next to impossible to see in the window near the back stairs; as stairs and window do not meet.

All other windows are inaccessible for viewing from outside.

I don't think you can see in from any point outside.

Unless apartment door was left open and/or unlocked how could a meter reader actually see in.

Ideas?

Ed

The Neely Street Apartment Interior.

http://jfklancer.com/photos/neelyst/

It was mislabeled 204 Neely street!!!

But my hats off to Tom Jones for these interior shots of 214 Neely.

Ed

I wouldn't get too worked up, in the expectations department. They pretended to be conducting an official, impartial inquiry, she pretended to be an important and reliable witness.:

Mrs. Oswald.

My husband had a small room where he kept all that sort of thing. It is a little larger than a closet. ...

Thanks Tom.

Yes tough to find a straight answer.

What can we find on the J Pat Doyle who lived/lives in Portland Oregon and has the film of the NO incident.

I'm looking for the pics...

Ed

In 1994 Marina Oswald told this researcher: "All I can tell you is what he told me when he came home. And people have pointed out how nervous he was after that, and he was cool as cucumber after Kennedy? Are you asking me, did I make this up? No. He came home from work, it was late, I found the note in one of the little closets.

and:

Nonetheless, George DeMohrenschildt claimed he and OSWALD stood in the front room talking, and Marina Oswald opened a closet to show Mrs. DeMohrenschildt the gun; Mrs. DeMohrenschildt called out to her husband in the next room.

http://ajweberman.com/noduleX17-DALLAS%20MARCH%201963%20TO%20APRIL%201963.htm

Which is it Marina!! When is a room not a closet and when is a closet not a room?

Oy vey...

This witness, MRS. J. PAT DOYLE, in NO said the Cubans smashed the placard:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/marysdb/showRec.do?mode=searchResult&id=3430

Mary's Comments: While visiting New Orleans in August 1963, she witnessed the Cubans smashing LHO's placard and scattering the leaflets on the sidewalk.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=671516

This states the Doyle's took pics and that the sign(placard) that was smashed was the one the other guy carried with "Cuba In Chains" and was on a stick.

And it was this that was broken and thrown down by the Cubans not the Viva La Fidel placard.

Ed

Ed, terrific stuff.

According to Marina, he had a little room in which he kept stuff (rifle, Walker photos etc) away from prying eyes, even banning her from going in there. Not that that stopped her, of course.

But as with a lot of her testimony, it conflicts with other evidence. They kept pressing her for example, as to whether the rifle was kept in a closet - presumably because they knew George & Jeanne claimed (and would so testify) that Jeanne had seen it in a closet. But not only did Marina insist the room was indeed a room and not a closet, she also insisted there was no closet inside the room and moreover, "he would hang a coat or something to mask its presence in the room."

But according to Jeanne, "it wasn't hidden or anything."

So I guess we need to check out whether there was a small ante-room or similar off the living area and what closets were in the apartment and where they were located?

In any case, if Marina's testimony is accurate (!) , he didn't need no steenkin' attic or crawl space to hide his secret stuff secretly. He had his room/closet/tardis for that.

Thanks Greg!

Yes a diagram would be very useful in understanding the layout. Pictures from interior would help greatly too.

If the "closet" was good enough for Lee to keep a rifle and or pistol he supposedly kept there, then why go to all the trouble to climb up into/onto the attic/roof dormer to hide a sign/placard?

Why not take the placard to New Orleans?

Again I ask did Lee take the handouts sent from NY to his Po box in Dallas with him?

If he did then he had plans to pass them out, and would take this "placard" too.

But first things first, lets see where this attic find goes. I'll be interested in what the ceiling of 214 Neely looks like. If there is no scuttle hole or attic hatch then this is a dead red herring. No hole, no access, no sign.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/21/2170-001.gif

Results of investigation = 14 photos

http://books.google.com/books?id=fG1XlPHujfgC&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=i+lived+in+oswalds+apartment+neely&source=bl&ots=bwfYuml-sx&sig=ZfBYFuVryLIwT-PeCu6gX2jUnok&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FPvtTu2pJa_-iQKt-6j3Aw&ved=0CFsQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=i%20lived%20in%20oswalds%20apartment%20neely&f=false

Bringuier supposedly has his own placard he teases Ossie with!

http://books.google.com/books?id=CYwluOC30KAC&pg=PA181&lpg=PA181&dq=i+lived+in+oswalds+apartment+neely&source=bl&ots=LzapbIWsrg&sig=OFOgSpEFIqICL2lapPAhh6xHzxY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CwLuTuvLJMGhiQLWgaWOAg&ved=0CEAQ6AEwBjgU#v=onepage&q=placard&f=false

Martello in NO supposedly keeps the handbills, placard, and Ossie's note and a picture but turns over the materials to the Secret Service where he said they still retain it.

He does not specify turning over the placard to them but says "pamphlets, leaflets, booklets".

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=44&relPageId=64

Why does the SS not produce this damning piece of evidence? if it was kept and given to them by Martello? As Martello said it "contained information about the FPCC" so it was of importance since he had conducted investigations into other FPCC literature found near Reissman's house.

Anyways, thanks for the Marina angle on this:

Mr. RANKIN. How did you learn about it? Did you see it some place in the apartment?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, Lee had a small room where he spent a great deal of time, where he read---where he kept his things, and that is where the rifle was.

Mr. RANKIN. Was it out in the room at that time, as distinguished from in a closet in the room?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, it was open, out in the open. At first I think---I saw some package up on the top shelf, and I think that that was the rifle. But I didn't know. And apparently later he assembled it and had it in the room.

Mr. RANKIN. When you saw the rifle assembled in the room, did it have the scope on it?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, it did not have a scope on it.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you have any discussion with your husband about the rifle when you first saw it?

Mrs. OSWALD. Of course I asked him, "What do you need a rifle for? What do we need that for?"

He said that it would come in handy some time for hunting. And this was not too surprising because in Russia, too, we had a rifle.

Mr. RANKIN. In Russia did you have a rifle or a shotgun?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know the difference. One and the other shoots. You men. That is your business.

The CHAIRMAN. My wife wouldn't know the difference, so it is all right.

Mrs. OSWALD. I have never served in the Army.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you discuss what the rifle cost with your husband?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Was the rifle later placed in a closet in the apartment at Neely Street?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, it was always either in a corner, standing up in a corner or on a shelf.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know what happened to the gun that you had in Russia? Was it brought over to this country?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, he sold it there. I did not say so when I had the first interviews. You must understand this was my husband. I didn't want to say too much.

Mr. RANKIN. Is this rifle at Neely Street the only rifle that you know of that your husband had after you were married to him?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever show that rifle to the De Mohrenschildts?

Mrs. OSWALD. I know that De Mohrenschildts had said that the rifle had been shown to him, but I don't remember that.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall your husband taking the rifle away from the apartment on Neely Street at any time?

Mrs. OSWALD. You must know that the rifle it isn't as if it was out in the open. He would hang a coat or something to mask its presence in the room. And sometimes when he walked out, when he went out in the evening I didn't know, because I didn't go into that room very often. I don't know whether he took it with him or not.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever see him clean the rifle?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I said before I had never seen it before. But I think you understand. I want to help you, and that is why there is no reason for concealing anything. I will not be charged with anything.

Mr. GOPADZE. She says she was not sworn in before. But now inasmuch as she is sworn in, she is going to tell the truth.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you see him clean the rifle a number of times?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Could you help us by giving some estimate of the times as you remember it?

Mrs. OSWALD. About four times---about four or five times, I think.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband ever tell you why he was cleaning the--that is, that he had been using it and needed to be cleaned after use?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I did not ask him, because I thought it was quite normal that when you have a rifle you must clean it from time to time.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever observe your husband taking the rifle away from the apartment on Neely Street?

Mrs. OSWALD. Now, I think that he probably did sometimes, but I never did see it. You must understand that sometimes I would be in the kitchen and he would be in his room downstairs, and he would say bye-bye, I will be hack soon, and he may have taken it. He probably did. Perhaps he purely waited for an occasion when he could take it away without my seeing it.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever observe that the rifle had been taken out of the apartment at Neely Street---that is, that it was gone?

Mrs. OSWALD. Before the incident with General Walker, I know that Lee was preparing for something. He took photographs of that house and he told me not to enter his room.

So there was a separate room, not a closet. And what about her saying it was downstairs?

Geez she makes things difficult. Maybe they were living in the attic

Ed

Can you show me Weigman, who would have been right there under the TSBD with his camera rolling, panning the windows of the sixth floor?

Can you show me the part of his film where people are running and diving for cover?

Oh that's right, the folks running and diving for their lives are ....near the knoll.

Where did Weigman run to?

Did he run to the TSBD to capture the people hitting the pavement?

Did Weigman run towards the TSBD to film the murderer in the window? Hahaha

NOPE! He went to the same source of shots as those on the grass heard/saw.

Do I need to name all the employees under that window who went back inside, back to where a supposed murderer with a rifle was supposedly shooting from.

Now then demonstrate the fact that these people directly under that window did not take cover. Be honest. Be rational. They did not flee the building. They in fact took notice of shots from the West of their location and many went to see what happened by the knoll as that was the source.

Your beginning to sound like Jerry Ford!

"There is no evidence of a second man, of other shots, of other guns."

~Congressman Gerald R. Ford

And we know what Jerry does with the evidence, don't we!

Ed

Are you saying the shots came from the SW corner of the TSBD then?

Because Newman gave a general area as to where the shot came from over his head.

Do you think the statement of where the shot and the, as he said it, people running to that area was a dream?

He was in the line of fire. Are you saying a bullet weaved its way from the SE corner of the sixth floor around the SW corner of the building, then weaved its way back over the pergola to come across the Newman's?

I realize you are a fan of magical bullets and their amazing directional changes and characteristics, but a bullet that veers off "course" by that much is incredible!

Again you'll avoid the reactions of people standing directly under your necessary snipers nest. Now that is some funny logic!

Under the TSBD no one dives for cover, no one runs for cover.

On the grass they are running or diving for cover.

Need a diagram of that David?

Way to tweak the facts to meet the logic of DVP!

"I thought the shot had come from the garden directly behind me, that it was on an elevation from where I was as I was right on the curb. I do not recall looking toward the Texas School Book Depository. I looked back in the vacinity [sic] of the garden."

~William (Bill) E. Newman Jr. sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D. 1963.

Ed

Wrong again.

WFAA interview with William 'Bill' Newman.

Shots were fired from the knoll.

"Shots came from behind me....Up on top of the hill, the mound of ground, the garden" ~ Bill Newman

http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/JFK/gknoll.mov

David will not admit that witnesses near the knoll said shots came from there.

He will have you think the shots came from the Texas School Book Depository.

Funny how the crowd all ran to the building to see what happened...but that did not happen, the rush was towards the knoll and the source of the shot that killed the president. Those who did not rush the knoll casually went back inside the TSBD. Funny, did they not assume the killer with a weapon would be coming downstairs. Unless they did not suspect ANY shots had been fired from that location.

David will distort the record to help his pal Vince sell books and support the discredited Presidents Commission (Warren Commission). His distorted 1964 view has been ridiculed on almost every forum where this has been discussed. He gets kicked off of these forums because he is a propaganda shill artist promoting a slanted view and will bait people with innuendo and personal attacks. No matter how many posts, no matter how many websites, no matter how many reviews he does he is always wrong. But that is just my opinion BTW.

Ed

My attempt at humor is probably way closer to the truth than anything you have posted.

Ed

Is the one that Sam Waterson did?

Yes Mark!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310906/

Using transcripts from the Warren Commission Report, this film documents the workings of the Warren Commission, which investigated the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in 1963.

Director: Mark Sobel

Writer: Mark Sobel

Stars: Martin Landau, Sam Waterston and Martin Sheen

David,

Its simple really, Emma held onto the envelope...no scratch that.

Emma held on to the order for two months and....no no scratch that too.

Mrs Vaughn held the order till the $10 dollars cash cleared ...umm no no no.

Emma Vaughn held the order till the same day as the rifle was to be shipp... oh drats.

Seaport holds orders for a week, just to see if you'll call and check on them...oh I shouldn't have said check.

Try again,,,

The order was held for the one week cooling off period as is customary with all mail orders? huh...

There that was simple.

And Emma thought gee I have held this order for such a long time I'll send a $10 more expensive gun than the ".38 St (standard?)W. (with) 2" barrel" to this nice man.

See a pattern with Oswald "supposedly" ordering a weapon of a certain size or model only to get another of different length or make???

Fish are not the only smelly things in the sea(port)

Ed

Martin, maybe soon as in 2012.

http://www.marksobel.com/COMMISSION/first.htm

Quote:

"NOTE: The website IMDB.com has the film listed as having had a June 2007 release. This is incorrect.

It has been screened as a "work-in-progress" at the AFI Film Festival in Los Angeles and the IFP Market Awards in New York.

The film remains in post through 2011."

I sent an email...waiting reply

Thanks Ed.

Please let me know if you hear anything back.

Your in luck Martin!

Just received a call back from Mark.

He will be releasing the film for the 50th.

No exact date but his intention is to have it finished and ready by then.

I asked about the changes he has made since speaking to Pat Speer.

Differences in the film are the addition of Kennedy as a character in the film. And as a victim. His speeches will punctuate the film throughout. It will be another layer.

No plans for DVD and he could not specify where he will have a screening.

He is just intent on completing the film in a more matured version.

I related that many folks on the forums are waiting for it and will be excited to see it come to fruition.

Ed

Another showing the roof design, with the peak and attic dormer.

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/141433.jpg

Now question is was this space accessible from the apartment in '63 or would it require climbing up on the roof and removing the vents to gain entry?

A possible hiding location indeed.

Ed

James Jackson was surprised that they "found" an attic!

Talked to him again to see what he kept up there.

He said he didn't , as he never knew the roof had any space above it.

Does not recall any way into it if there was an "attic". No cubby hole in the closet, etc.

He said it was just an old rickety building and roof was the ceiling. Maybe some wooden boards across at the peak but no way into it. (emphasis added by T. Graves)

Ed

Ed,

The roof, or the ceiling? Hmmmm? Oh, I got it. The roof was the ceiling.

--Tommy

I just quote em' Tommy, and as accurately and as closely as possibly.

But yes he recalled his ceiling had no attic space as it was also the roof. It has been a while but I doubt the ceiling has been lowered in the intervening years. A visit to Neely may be in order to flesh this one out completely to everyone's satisfaction.

This photo shows the Attic dormer.

http://www.onthisveryspot.com/pics/spot_1684_760.jpg

Ed